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13" Brake Rotor Upgrade for the 88's by fieroguru
Started on: 10-26-2011 08:08 PM
Replies: 231 (8990 views)
Last post by: fieroguru on 09-07-2013 08:17 AM
fieroguru
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Report this Post11-07-2011 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Sounds good!

I'm confused, though. What are the extra nuts for? The back side of the plates, where the caliper bolts go through?


Yes.
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Report this Post11-08-2011 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Took the plunge today and ordered all the brackets/rings for the first 5 sets. My CNC machine shop vendor is one I used all the time for work back when I lived in IL.

Also, ordered 2 of the drilled/slotted rotors (they are directional/side specific) so I can check the weight on them and post some pictures.

Still waiting for 3 remaining standard rotors and bolt/nut hardware to arrive.

I have had a couple of people PM me about selling 1/2 kits to replace just the front rotors with 13" rotors - I will sell 1/2 kits at 1/2 price.

I will update again as progress is made, but please keep the PM's of interest and feedback coming!
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Report this Post11-08-2011 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ALJRClick Here to Email ALJRSend a Private Message to ALJREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Also, ordered 2 of the drilled/slotted rotors (they are directional/side specific) so I can check the weight on them and post some pictures.



Curious to see the quality of them and to verify where there made...
what is the center-bore of the rotors or ID of the centric rings? Wondering if there the same as my ASA AR1 wheels; would be nice to have a double-thick centric ring so I would not need to use two per wheel..
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Report this Post11-08-2011 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ALJR:


Curious to see the quality of them and to verify where there made...
what is the center-bore of the rotors or ID of the centric rings? Wondering if there the same as my ASA AR1 wheels; would be nice to have a double-thick centric ring so I would not need to use two per wheel..


Like I said before, I assume they are made in China based on the price. That will be the extent of my investigation into their source of casting/machining. If you are THAT concerned about their country of origin, then add $175 to standard kit price and I will buy the rotors directly from the OEM dealership. That is the difference in cost between the vendor I have selected and the dealership price for 4 rotors (and I still will not commit to them being mfg. outside of China).

I am not sharing the center bore of the rotors. It's published value has no purpose other than to allow people to start narrowing down my rotor selection.

The ID of the rings is the same for all 88's, and posted in multiple places on PFF (or you can do what I did and measure 8 wheel bearings and get an estimated range). Without even checking, I can tell you the ID of the rotor rings had better not be the same as your wheel rings as the hub is a different OD between the rotor surface and the wheel surface.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-08-2011).]

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Report this Post11-09-2011 12:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ALJRClick Here to Email ALJRSend a Private Message to ALJREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

The ID of the rings is the same for all 88's, and posted in multiple places on PFF (or you can do what I did and measure 8 wheel bearings and get an estimated range). Without even checking, I can tell you the ID of the rotor rings had better not be the same as your wheel rings as the hub is a different OD between the rotor surface and the wheel surface.



sorry, that was a typo, I ment OD...
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Report this Post11-09-2011 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The bolts and nuts arrived today and I spoke with the machine shop about the brackets and rings. The brackets are being laser cutted as I type and should be ready by the end of this week. The rings are scheduled on the CNC lathe and should be done by the end of next week.

So maybe at the end of my thanksgiving holiday I will have the first kits test fitted on my black 88.
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Report this Post11-10-2011 06:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm looking forward to seeing these.
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fieroguru
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Report this Post11-11-2011 11:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am pretty much an 88 only enthusiast, but sometimes I get distracted/obsessed about something and can't stop thinking about it. During these events, it tends to work out better and pass sooner if I just take the time to satisfy my curiosity. So here is a glimpse of my current insanity…

What got stuck in my head is that every current 84-87 brake upgrade on the market is based on converting to a vented setup for improved performance and fade resistance. This works quite well, but requires swapping out all 4 calipers, introduces the potential for brake bias/balance issues as well, ends up making the kit cost 2-3 times that of a comparable 88 brake upgrade, and the lower cost versions do not offer the visual impact of a 12" or larger rotor.

So what if an 84-87 brake upgrade retained the solid rotors and stock calipers, but focused on larger diameter rotors to improve braking/fade resistance?" Granted this isn't as good as vented, but it could still provide a significant improvement in braking/fade and visual impact for much less $$. The needed brackets would be greatly simplified, the cost will be less, the overall brake rotor “look” through the wheels greatly improved, and it would retain the stock brake balance.

I am pleased to announce that I have found about 5 solid brake rotors in the 12" diameter range that should work quite well on the rears with the right bracket/rings. The rear was the easy part.

The fronts are a little more challenging with the current hub/rotor combo being a hindrance that increases both cost/complexity. So the other obsessive thought..."instead of machining the stock Fiero hubs, are there any other rotorless hubs that could be adapted to the front of the 84-87 Fieros with a simple bearing swap?" Once I have the adapted hub, then I will review my list of rotors for proper depth and I can finish up the front. I already have a list of several of these hubs to review, but the biggest hold up right now is that I do not have any 84-87 brake/suspension parts in my collection. I have local friends that do… so hopefully over the weekend I will have the needed 84-87 hardware to finish my 84-87 solid rotor brake upgrade. Developing a new low cost 12" brake upgrade for the 84-87 will take some, but the project has peaked my curiosity.

The 88 13” brake kit has priority and will be completed first, but during times of waiting on parts/feedback/orders, I will be working on the 84-87 solid rotor upgrade.
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Report this Post11-11-2011 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ace5514Click Here to Email ace5514Send a Private Message to ace5514Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fieroguru,
you might have somethng there! i prefer the vented rotors, but bang for the buck, if you can keep the cost down, people might buy them. Don't count out using the cut down fiero hub..it really isn't that expensive to have done. which leaves the cost of your kit (brackets and concentric rings and rotors) and maybe parking brake cable mods to allow for the larger diameter rotors and POW!!!! you have larger rotors behind those 17, 18 and 19" rims.
good luck
al
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Report this Post11-12-2011 12:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This thread deserves to be on top, lots of great information and even though I know fieroguru is a little on the obsessed side (he's actually nuts but said with great respect) he is an absolute genius when it comes to fabrication and all that mechanical stuff. His garage/shop is like Disney Land for mechanics/machinist. I actually envy his talent but, knowing I'm much better looking, I guess I've just have to be happy with the way things are.

I have no doubt his 13" rotor will be a success. I'd be interested myself but, I'm pretty sure those rotors won't fit inside my Centerline wheels.
See you some time in the next week Paul.

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"While you cannot control the length of your life, you can control the width and depth." Live life to it's fullest, you may not see tomorrow.

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Report this Post11-12-2011 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

See you some time in the next week Paul.



Maybe sooner. Been out joy riding the 383/Getrag this morning and getting ready to head out again... might just make it up your way today!
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Report this Post11-12-2011 01:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

fieroguru

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quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
I have local friends that do… so hopefully over the weekend I will have the needed 84-87 hardware to finish my 84-87 solid rotor brake upgrade. Developing a new low cost 12" brake upgrade for the 84-87 will take some, but the project has peaked my curiosity.


I picked up the front/rear suspension/brake setup for an 84-87 last night (and another complete 88 rear cradle/suspension), so I have what I need to work on the 84-87 brake upgrade when I have time.
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Report this Post11-12-2011 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for redraifClick Here to Email redraifSend a Private Message to redraifEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow I'm glad Raydar turned me on to this thread, if this works it will save me a ton. I already have new stock 4 calipers. When i bought the car it did not run. The brakes were seized and I had to buy new stock calipers. The whole system is new to be honest. Even with all new components, with new rims I can tell I need to upgrade.. my stopping is inadequate.

I saw a thread where fiero addictions bracket kit would be copied & was about to plunk down the $ to buy brackets to convert my 84's brake system to 88 calipers. I was going to do it knowing I could not afford the whole system now. I have a family that comes first and I'm not made of money. sadly my fiero is low priority as it is my toy. All this means I would be sitting for a while on the brackets. I would have to wait to save more $ for the calipers and 12 in vette rotors... All the while regretting that I already have new 84 calipers to just be wasted.

so....
Your idea of not having to replace the stock calipers and knowing my park brake will still work.... I'm in 100%... The wife might go for this 12 inch conversion!

[This message has been edited by redraif (edited 11-12-2011).]

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Report this Post11-13-2011 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
According to Fed Ex both the smooth and drilled/slotted rotors should be here on Monday... then I will just be waiting for the brackets/rings...
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Report this Post11-13-2011 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

According to Fed Ex both the smooth and drilled/slotted rotors should be here on Monday... then I will just be waiting for the brackets/rings...


Hmmm, Don't be surprised if I just happen to show up and take a gander at this project up close.

OH Yeah, bump for a great thread.

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Report this Post11-17-2011 09:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post11-19-2011 07:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Still waiting on the brackets/rings from the machine shop. I might just pick them up in person on Wednesday since I will be in the area.

All 4 rotors for the test set are now here, just need to drill them.
The 2 drilled/slotted rotors are MIA... lost by Fed Ex and they are currently trying to located them.

I also found a 14" rotor that would work for an 88 brake kit... way to big for me, but if someone has some really large wheels and wants a 14" rotor... send me a PM.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-19-2011).]

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Report this Post11-19-2011 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

I also found a 14" rotor that would work for an 88 brake kit... way to big for me, but if someone has some really large wheels and wants a 14" rotor... send me a PM.



Well, if one could mount some tires on the outside, we might have something there.

Did ya get all those washers made? Bump

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Report this Post11-19-2011 11:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

I also found a 14" rotor that would work for an 88 brake kit.


Heck... If you ever have a flat, you can just remove the wheel and reinstall the lug nuts. You can drive home on the rotor.
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Report this Post11-20-2011 12:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


Heck... If you ever have a flat, you can just remove the wheel and reinstall the lug nuts. You can drive home on the rotor.


I know you were joking but I was thinking if you could actually do that or would the rotor crack/break from the weight of the car on it...
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Report this Post11-20-2011 08:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:


I know you were joking but I was thinking if you could actually do that or would the rotor crack/break from the weight of the car on it...


Rotors are cast iron and rather brittle. My guess is within 1 mile the rotor would shatter.
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Report this Post11-20-2011 12:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

...The 2 drilled/slotted rotors are MIA...

I also found a 14" rotor that would work for an 88 brake kit...



Nooo! Not lost! Yeesss! Want 14s! Well not really I guess. I think with a 14" rotor the stock caliper will start looking like an E-brake clamp
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Report this Post11-20-2011 12:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:


...Yeesss! Want 14s! ...


That's the First Rule.

"If 'more' is enough, then 'too much' is just right."



Hey... My wheels are 17s. It could work.
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Report this Post11-20-2011 03:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


That's the First Rule.

"If 'more' is enough, then 'too much' is just right."



Hey... My wheels are 17s. It could work.


After thanksgiving, I will probably order one just for grins... Might be an excuse to buy some larger wheels!
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Report this Post11-21-2011 08:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for redraifClick Here to Email redraifSend a Private Message to redraifEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dang... what would one do for a spare... lol

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Report this Post11-21-2011 08:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by redraif:

Dang... what would one do for a spare... lol



My front mounted battery took care of that. The big brakes are just going to cement it over.

I bought a kit that contains a portable compressor, plugs and plug tools.
(Heck... all my Challenger came with was a compressor and a can of Slime.)
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Report this Post11-21-2011 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for imacflierClick Here to Email imacflierSend a Private Message to imacflierEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Raydar,

IIRC, your quote was originally a Stroker McGurk quote from Hot Rod Magazine <?>: "If some is good, then more is better, and too much is just enough!"

Made this old fart smile to remember it, too!

Larry
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Report this Post11-21-2011 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
imac,

I'm not sure where I first heard it. Probably from the same guy who mentioned the Backyard Mechanic's Rule of Thumb:

"Tighten it till it strips, then back off a quarter turn."
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Report this Post11-21-2011 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

imac,

I'm not sure where I first heard it. Probably from the same guy who mentioned the Backyard Mechanic's Rule of Thumb:

"Tighten it till it strips, then back off a quarter turn."


I like the following phase when someone asks about how much to torque something: "tighten 1/4 turn till it breaks, you will know when you have gone too far"

On the brake rotor front, Fed Ex admitted to delivering the drilled/slotted rotors to the wrong house, so the rotor supplier is sending me another set.
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Report this Post11-21-2011 11:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


I like the following phase when someone asks about how much to torque something: "tighten 1/4 turn till it breaks, you will know when you have gone too far"

On the brake rotor front, Fed Ex admitted to delivering the drilled/slotted rotors to the wrong house, so the rotor supplier is sending me another set.


I wonder what the reaction was of the people who got those rotors...what in the world are these?
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Report this Post11-22-2011 09:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:


I wonder what the reaction was of the people who got those rotors...what in the world are these?


I am keeping an eye on Craigslist and eBay to see if they try to sell them... might be able to pick them up for less than new.
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Report this Post11-22-2011 09:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

fieroguru

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Just got off the phone with the machine shop, the 20 brackets and 20 rings are ready and I will pick them up in person on Wednesday evening.
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Report this Post11-22-2011 09:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for redraifClick Here to Email redraifSend a Private Message to redraifEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
WOW you got lucky they admitted the fault. They tell you where? Maybe it was close and you can go knock on the door and ask for your stuff... LOL!

Our street has a north and South designation, but nothing showing where one stops and the other starts... Makes it fun sometimes around xmas when they hire holiday help to deliver stuff! They miss us on North drive and the folks with the same number on south drive get the package! LOL! Usually everyone is honest and admits it. Helps when we ahve alot of retire folks who are home at delivery time.

I'm so jealous... I want 14inch rotors! Then I could be the Indy with the MEGA brakes!

------------------
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[This message has been edited by redraif (edited 11-22-2011).]

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Report this Post11-24-2011 09:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I picked up 20 brackets/rings last night!




I should be able to start the mockup installation on my 88 on Sunday and really would like to have the first set shipped to my PFF tester by Friday next week.
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Report this Post11-24-2011 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Aren't they purdy!

Looking forward to updates.
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fieroguru
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From: Champaign, IL
Registered: Aug 2003


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Report this Post11-27-2011 07:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The replacement shipment of the drilled/slotted rotors were waiting for me when I got back into town. They weigh 16.2 lbs each, so they are about 2 lbs lighter (each) than the non-drilled/slotted ones.


Here is the start of the test kit (a few more parts may be added to assist with the installation and to retain stock parking brake cables):


Today I was able to start the test fitting process. Stock 88 setup in the rear:



Remove these:


Use a 1" wide piece of sand paper (it helps to put clear tape on the back side to keep it from tearing) to clean up the rust/corrosion on the hub where the concentric rings will sit:




My concentric rings designed to be a press fit to the hub and minimal clearance between the ring and rotor. This is to ensure that the rotors are positioned at close to dead center as possible (withing .001"-.002"). So to install the rings, place them in place with the enlarged lip to the flange, and then install the old brake rotor backwards. Use the lug nuts and the old rotor to gently press (1 tune per lug, then move to the next, etc) the concentric ring onto the hub.



Then remove the old rotor and install the bracket using the supplied bolts:


Install rotor and use some lug nuts to hold it into position:


Install brake caliper using the stock torx caliper bolts:


In this picture, you can see the e-brake cable in position on the caliper. I need to remove the rear spring and fully compress the suspension to make sure the cable sleeve is long enough. If it isn't, then I will supply some machined cable sleeve spacers to be mounted between the caliper bracket and the cable sleeve - effectively lengthening it. These sleeve will require a longer parking brake adjuster, so I will cut the stock one and weld in a sleeve extension to it... at least that is plan B at this point. I really want to make this setup work with the stock parking brake cables. In the event the cable sleeves are needed, then they will also be supplied (The only part the customer needs to supply is the brake pads).


Now the bad news for the 16" wheel guys... The retaining bolt for the rear brake hose hits the inside of the wheel. I could use a spacer to clear it, but will probably just run 17's.


The front was about the same:






I need to remove the front spring and cycle the suspension with the wheels locked to each side to see if there is any a-arm/caliper/hose interference.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-27-2011).]

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mattwa
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From: Lorain, Ohio
Registered: Sep 2008


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Report this Post11-27-2011 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
Now the bad news for the 16" wheel guys... The retaining bolt for the rear brake hose hits the inside of the wheel. I could use a spacer to clear it, but will probably just run 17's.


This is disappointing, I was going to use a half set of this kit with the 16" rims I was planning to get from a friend locally, but I guess not. Could you make the bracket for the 12" Vette rotors?

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 11-27-2011).]

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RULOOKIN
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From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jan 2010


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Report this Post11-27-2011 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RULOOKINClick Here to visit RULOOKIN's HomePageClick Here to Email RULOOKINSend a Private Message to RULOOKINEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pm sent on compleate set cross drilled sweeps and if you can zinc coated
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