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Alex's 3800 Supper Charged Swap by fiero al
Started on: 06-23-2011 01:10 PM
Replies: 127 (6775 views)
Last post by: fiero al on 03-13-2015 05:18 PM
fiero al
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Report this Post02-16-2012 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Today I was able to get my parts back from Jean and they look great! They are the right color and the color scheme looks awesome! the wait was defiantly worth it. Along with the paint, the porting and polishing on the bottom of the supercharger was done and it looks great as well. Here are some pics of the paint and the porting

pics of the painted parts







It's been so long since I've done anything with this project that it has dust on some of the parts



here are the pics of the porting and polishing of the lower part of the supercharger



here are some pics of some of the pieces individually






Along with this, I have started training at my new job and now getting paid so I can start getting parts for this project and start working on it again. the only thing is that with school still going on and now work adding to my schedule, I'm still gonna have a hard time finding the time to work on this. I'm hoping that when summer brake comes I will be able to get more time into this and get this thing done. i think the only thing i can do now is change in the bigger gas tank with the new fuel pump for the swap so that I don't have to worry about it later plus the more gas it holds will allow me to go a longer distance so i don't have to keep filling every week when i go back and forth to school and work
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Report this Post02-16-2012 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow, that looks great! Jean does great work.
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fiero al
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Report this Post02-18-2012 03:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Wow, that looks great! Jean does great work.


Thanks. Jean does do great work. It might take some time but that's only because he does this stuff by himself and he still has other projects he has to do for other people but when he does get to it, it will definitely be worth the wait. He also doesn't just do painting, he can do body repair or even repair rusted out body frames. so say if the fiero frame was rusting out, he could replace the bad sections and make it like new.

On a side note I was able to paint some more parts that go on the engine.







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Report this Post02-18-2012 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh, and that ugly stock supercharger pulley is being replaced with a 3.4 pulley, right? All you gotta do is decide what color pulley you want, black or clear (silver).

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-18-2012).]

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fiero al
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Report this Post02-18-2012 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Oh, and that ugly stock supercharger pulley is being replaced with a 3.4 pulley, right? All you gotta do is decide what color pulley you want, black or clear (silver).



Yea I'm planing on switching out the pulley to something smaller like a 3.4 and it will probably be silver
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Report this Post02-18-2012 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Click Here to Email FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looking good!

------------------

88 Coupe: 2.0L Turbo 4 Cylinder
84 Indy #64: Restoration Project!

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fiero al
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Report this Post02-18-2012 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i have a quick question. I plan on doing the gas tank swap here soon and need to know which fuel pump would be best to use for my swap. I looked at different kinds of pumps and not sure which is best. here is some that i looked at so far. I looked at ACDelco EP381 pump,Walbro (GSS341 240SX) Fuel Pumps - 255 LPH,ACDelco EP376 Fuel Pump, and the Walbro F20000169 Fuel Pumps. since i can't seem to find a site that gives specific specs on each, I can't tell which one is best for what I'm doing.
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Report this Post02-18-2012 07:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is more information on the vendors website where I bought my fuel pump from, TLG auto, which I recommend you get one of these pumps from as well.

This is the pump I bought-
http://www.tlg-store.com/product_p/fieroeng019.htm
If you are planning on upgrading in the future, you may have an issue with this pump, however, this pump is more forgiving with running a tank dry and is quiet. It's rated to about 255HP, but it really could be different for every application depending on what mods you have and what not.

This is the Walbro 255 pump-
http://www.tlg-store.com/product_p/fieroeng018.htm
Good up to 600HP so they say. With this pump, you will never have an problem with your fuel pump giving you enough fuel pressure. However, they do NOT tolerate being run out of fuel and sucking in air, they will burn up quick. And they tend to be noisy.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-18-2012).]

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Report this Post02-19-2012 12:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Bosch 69225 is only rated at 34 PSI, good for stock 2.8/3.4
The ACDelco EP376 is rated up to 80 PSI.
The Walbro 225 is for big horse power.

I went with the Airtex equivelant of the EP376 for money reasons.

------------------
Project Genisis Lo Budget 3800SC swap

88 formula 3.4L 4t60 swap

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 02-19-2012).]

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fiero al
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Report this Post03-22-2012 07:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well it's been some time but I did get somethings done on my swap. Matt came over and did some of the wiring last week and was able to order a fuel pump and some wire-loom. I plan on ordering more of this loom but I just wanted to see what it was going to look like and to see how much more would be needed. for the most part, it looks pretty good so far

here is a pic of my new fuel pump. it's a Walbro GSS342

wiring in progress









this was the first setup i had with the wires but I decided to change it in the next few pics after these



here's the second version were i changed the position of the fuel vapor canister sensor



still need to get the fuel injector wires done but for the most part, the top is almost done. once the wiring is done, I'll start working on the two other mounts and some other things.
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Report this Post03-24-2012 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I spent the whole day today working on the wiring for this swap. So..many...wires. Ugh. But I'm doing it, and lots of progress has been made! Doesn't look like it though, to me at least. Like I said eariler, it always looks even worse before it starts looking better. Reached that stage tonight. Since did some wiring with my 3800, I knew how all the engine wiring should be run, but since I'm using an F23, I didn't know much of the transmission wiring. The most PITA part is that all of the transmission wiring has to be extended. I did the range switch already, but I still need to do the main connector.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-24-2012).]

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Report this Post03-24-2012 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow Matt, you got a lot done today. It sucks that I couldn't be there tonight but it looks like you had it under control. Tomorrow I plan on getting some of the parts we need to get some of these are things done. I'm going to order the pins we need for the rest of the wires tonight.
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Report this Post03-24-2012 11:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Alex, I found the thread I was looking for. Ryan has been there done that with your digital dash, it requires the BCM to work, and even if we had the BCM, the tach wouldn't work because it requires data from a OBD1 3800 computer. I was mistaken as to what I said about it earlier. Sorry. Maybe it'll work with a 4.9 though.
//www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050410-2-058030.html

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-25-2012).]

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fiero al
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Report this Post03-25-2012 03:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
.
Double post

[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 03-25-2012).]

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fiero al
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Report this Post03-25-2012 03:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Alex, I found the thread I was looking for. Ryan has been there done that with your digital dash, it requires the BCM to work, and even if we had the BCM, the tach wouldn't work because it requires data from a OBD1 3800 computer. I was mistaken as to what I said about it earlier. Sorry. Maybe it'll work with a 4.9 though.
//www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050410-2-058030.html



at this point, I think I'm going to give up on the digital dash idea because it seems that everyone of them has something that makes them more difficult then it needs to be. So far each of them needed a BCM to work. I think the only way I will ever have something close to a digital gauge set is if I get a Bluetooth adapter for the OBD2 connector and get the Torque application for my tablet. If anything it would be better then any digital gauge set since it would be completely customisable and can read just about anything. the only issue is that the screen is somewhat taller then the gauge cluster but I think I might have an idea about this since my tablet has a small HDMI cable port on it, I can see if I can find a small screen that I can hook up to it that fits in that area. This is just an idea if I was to make something permanent but what I was thinking was making a slit on top of the cover surrounding the original gauge cluster and drop the tablet down in front of the old cluster so it can be used as the new cluster but can also be removable when needed but still have the old gauge cluster if tablet is not available. So I'm dropping digital gauges and going LCD touch screen hybrid

add: I think I have changed my mind on these digital gauges. I might decided to give these a second chance if we can get them working. After talking to Matt, he told me getting these gauges to work may be complex but it should be possible. I'm still working on the tablet idea so that we can use it to read codes and other reading that the gauges wont show.

[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 03-31-2012).]

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Report this Post03-25-2012 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Worked on the wiring most of the day again today, and I pretty much got it all done except for a few wires that I can't wire up yet because Alex still needs to buy the parts. But I finished the transmission wiring and taped it all up.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
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fiero al
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Report this Post03-26-2012 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I see you were able to make that mass of wires a little bit more compact. not so much as an eyesore as it was before with all the wires hanging around. As for the other parts we need, I have the pins coming but other than that I'm not sure what else I need to get. I remember something about a speedometer circuit addition that you were talking about but I forget who makes it. I also probably need to order more high heat wireloom for the main harness wires since I don't have anything that big to cover them.

By the way I found some grey electrical tape. Not as good as chrome but it is better then trying to get the black electrical tape to look good over the chrome wireloom and it has the same high heat properties as the normal black electrical tape. The other choice was clear electrical tape but it didn't have the same high heat properties. Here's the link to the site that has it. http://www.tapebrothers.com...ft-p/el766clgy75.htm
or here for the other colors they have
http://www.tapebrothers.com...XyhK8CFQfCKgodEHTp5w

[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 03-26-2012).]

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Report this Post03-26-2012 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My opinion is the grey wouldn't look any different, but if you wanna get it, sure why not.

Here is what I was talking about. This is the website where you can buy the "Speedometer Buffer" that you need so you can use the stock gauges. http://www.reddevilriver.com/Related_Products.html $20 shipped.

And this is the loom you need. The samples of the big stuff I gave you is the 1" stuff. We bought 10 feet of it. http://www.wiringproducts.c...nylon_wire_loom.html

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-26-2012).]

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Report this Post03-26-2012 12:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85sliverGTClick Here to Email 85sliverGTSend a Private Message to 85sliverGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The speedo buffer is really easy to make, there is a diagram on Darths website
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Report this Post03-26-2012 01:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I bought it for my swap, I'm just too lazy and I like to support a fellow Fiero owner when it's his business.
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Report this Post03-26-2012 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85sliverGTClick Here to Email 85sliverGTSend a Private Message to 85sliverGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm all about supporting fiero businesses too, but your making you're own harness might as well make that too. Its only a couple bucks in radio shack parts and about 10 mins to make it.

Diagram: http://www.gmtuners.com/swap/3800.htm
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Report this Post03-26-2012 01:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's up to Alex, not me. Not my swap.

Edit: This wouldn't be even needed if you weren't using the stock speedometer...

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-26-2012).]

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fiero al
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Report this Post03-26-2012 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I bought the speedo buffer and it should be here sometime in the future. I also went up to Autozone and got my second engine mount.
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fiero al
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Report this Post03-31-2012 12:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well, with a lot of help from Matt, which with out I might not have even got this far in this project, was able to get a majority of the wiring done on the engine. There's still some minor things left with the wiring but other then finishing the looming, most of the wiring is done. With the wiring mostly done, I can start working on other things like the mounts, axles, etc. I don't have a pic of the most recent view of the engine and the wiring but here are some of what I got from before that I haven't posted yet.

Spark plug wires are at good lengths. If anyone decides to put them were I'm putting them (up by were the battery was at), one of the things you can do is get yourself a set of the long wires of the 3800(the 3 wires farthest from the coils) and use them along with the other 3 wires from the current engine and these should be long enough to reach this spot with no problems.






Also, I got the rebuild kit for the supercharger
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Report this Post03-31-2012 12:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad to help. But I was thinking, and we really should take it completely off the cradle to finish the mounts one last time.
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fiero al
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Report this Post03-31-2012 02:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Glad to help. But I was thinking, and we really should take it completely off the cradle to finish the mounts one last time.


Yea that was what I was thinking about doing with the mounts. as for the mounts we still need to make the second engine mount and modify the one transmission mount. I'm still thinking of doing the top dog bone.
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fiero al
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Report this Post03-31-2012 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here are the pics of the more recent wiring.





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Report this Post03-31-2012 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When you get this swap going and you work out all the bugs etc, I would really look into saving for the ZZP fuel log kit, it's pricey but makes the swap look 10X better, since it removes all the fuel lines going over top the supercharger.
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Report this Post03-31-2012 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

When you get this swap going and you work out all the bugs etc, I would really look into saving for the ZZP fuel log kit, it's pricey but makes the swap look 10X better, since it removes all the fuel lines going over top the supercharger.


Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the stainless steel lines and having Jean paint the fuel rail? I'd understand if I had black rubber hoses as the fuel lines and a stock non painted fuel rail. if I had these then yes I would probably get the other fuel rail. But for now I think it looks good the way it is. The one thing I do want from them is their power log exhaust but that I can switch in with the engine being in the car. Much easier on a 3800 then a 2.8.
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Report this Post03-31-2012 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
nevermind.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-14-2012).]

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fiero al
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Report this Post03-31-2012 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The fuel line going off to the side by the throttle body bothers me. unless these are reversible, I would have to run the fuel lines coming from the tank to the other side of the car. That and isn't this a return less system or am I only seeing one fuel line? This may look better in some cases but I personally like the painted fuel rail on mine. I guess I could have bent the fuel rail's in and out lines back so that the lines went back but since I didn't think of this till after it got it painted I can't change it now.
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Report this Post03-31-2012 11:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NightMare CruiserSend a Private Message to NightMare CruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like your Fuel rails as is!

------------------
It's a CAR, now drive it!!

http://community.webshots.c...rx32?vhost=community

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Report this Post04-01-2012 12:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe that was a bad example picture. I didn't think that line was a fuel line, just where you can't see it. It goes over the side of the engine under the supercharger snout for a returnless system. But, doesn't matter, I was just stating my opinion, sorry for saying anything. I never meant I DIDN'T like your fuel rail as is, it's awesome for a stock rail.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-01-2012).]

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fiero al
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Report this Post04-04-2012 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Maybe that was a bad example picture. I didn't think that line was a fuel line, just where you can't see it. It goes over the side of the engine under the supercharger snout for a returnless system. But, doesn't matter, I was just stating my opinion, sorry for saying anything. I never meant I DIDN'T like your fuel rail as is, it's awesome for a stock rail.



I understand what you meant and I do agree that if you can hide the fuel lines it would look better but in my case it works out with the theme of the motor. I wasn't trying to bash you for saying your opinion or anything but I wanted to show my side and reasoning in using what I did. Besides, if it wasn't for some of your opinions, I probably be doing a 3.4 or something by now and probably having the same problems you had.
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Report this Post04-14-2012 01:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well after some thought, I decided to go with the low mounting of the alt. I recently ordered a bracket from fierox that allowed me to use the fiero alt in the low mounting position along with using the 3800 dog bone bracket. All I need now is the ribbed tensioner and swap out the two pulleys on the two alts since the one of the fiero is a 5 ribbed and the 3800 is a 6 ribbed. I also got my other engine mount welded by Matt recently. Now all I need is the other trans bracket welded which Matt will be doing here shortly and once that's done, i will have all my mounts done. Here's some pics of what has gone on so far

engine mount #2



pic of what it's going to look like with the alt low mounted and with everything else on top. didn't fully put back together the supercharger since I'm still in the process of rebuilding it.





fierox low mount alt bracket




also, I have two questions to ask. First is how do you get the alt pulley off with the nut and hex head type? I tried different methods on the 3800 alt and ended up destroying the alt and the pulley still didn't come off. is there a specific tool I need or should I do what I heard other people have done and try to use an impact on the nut? second question is what is the tensioner that I need to use for the low alt setup like this? i know it's some type of bolt on with a ribbed pulley but what do I search for when trying to find one of these?

heres a pic of the alt and the nut/hex head type

[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 04-14-2012).]

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fiero al
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Report this Post04-19-2012 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
heres some more pics of what i got done so far

put the alt on and changed alt pulley to the six ribbed pulley. by the way, using an impact and a spare belt is the easiest way to take off the pulley on these.



























these brackets are not the cleanest but they are strong and will work for now till i decided to change over to the poly mounts which i will then clean them up more and see if i need to make anymore modifications to them.
also i still need to know what type of tensioner pulley i need for the low alt style bracket. I'm guessing its just like the supercharger tensioner pulley but with a ribbed pulley.
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mattwa
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Report this Post04-19-2012 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Those brackets really came out nice! Looks good! I'm happy with how that transmission bracket turned out, looks much better with some paint.
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fiero al
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Report this Post05-24-2012 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero alSend a Private Message to fiero alEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
haven't posted in awhile but i did get some things done since the last time. i started working on rebuilding the supercharger and a few other things.


new coupler and needle barrings assembled

new seal







old bearings

tool used to get old needle bearings out

new 3.4 pulley





definitively recommend getting a puller over what i did even though it did work. just have to be careful. you can cut the pulley but you only need to cut it to the point when it releases enough pressure on the shaft so it is easier to take off

new tensioner pulley for low mount alt








along with this, i went to pull a part with Matt and got a bigger brake booster and a digital cruse control. i plan on getting the computer sent out to get reprogrammed here soon.
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Report this Post05-24-2012 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Finally an update!! Lol. Got to get this powertrain running so I can take it.
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Report this Post05-25-2012 06:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierokid87Click Here to Email Fierokid87Send a Private Message to Fierokid87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The more i see these 3800 swaps the more i want to do one. Problem is I have no clue as to how the wiring is done or where to get mounts. I don't have a whole lot of money either.

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Go here to see more of my Formula: " TARGET=_blank>http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/430754

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