100s of russian paramilitary in civilian clothes sent by bus to Kharkov,Donesk & Lugansk ..These are all big men,,with low atheist morals
they have incited rioting & formed crowds at Goverment building ,,Ukrainans who had
previously entered the govement buildings to prevent a russian take over,,these Ukrainians were severely beaten & forced to kneel by the ethnic atheist Military Russians in front of the crowds & say they were CIA agents & Criminals,Kiev protesters & Christian agitators .& other such stuff.Typical totalitarian stuff The men in charge seem to be russian military ..
..1000s of additional russian troops comming by truck,transport aircraft & even an amphibious assault ship.
.. dangerous to be ID as American or from western countryin east Ukraine
russian troops assaulted & took the anti-aircraft Missile radar site
..a 1000 russan troops with a tank have surrounded a small Ukraine infantry military base, I did not know there was a Ukraine infantry base in Crimea??
very angry,furious Ukrainian Marines want to fight thier way out of there Crimea base,told to hold
tough wheel barrow admiral now has no assignment ,but the naval marine units,paratrooper & other Ukraine military would follow him into hell,,the admiral wants to fight, he thought if they acted immediately, it was thier only chance, stand up to the bully ,hit him hard ,make PUTIN think
..the berkut troops who machine gun ,slaughtered the 88 unarmed Ukrainian & wounded 300 are Hailed,celebrated as Heros ! The Berkut name chanted in the streets typical totalitarian atheist stuff
since the Berkut will be charged with murder,, PUTIN has welcome them into Russia
there are 4000 russian MVD berkut ((elite police)) all will recieve russian passports ,,a unit the Ukrainians long ago wanted disbanded
all strategic & key installations are now occupied or surrounded by Russian military,including a pro Ukraine T.V.station..Russian militery guarding all entrance into Crimea very narrow neck into Crimea ,,including the ferry
steady stream of athist hate comming from all pro russian radio,T.V. & newspapers stuff like Ukraine will be a nuclear waste dump(my fave).the protesters are all Criminals ,they want russians killed & they are all CIA agents ?/millions??
a lot of really crazy stuff..Ethnic Russians seem to believe every propaganda word! absolutely amazing !! even women interviewed on the street believe this stuff.. these are the atheist decendants of the people who watched Ukraine farmers starve to death ,crawling on the streets of Krarkov,begging for a scrap of bread,while thier confiscated food rotted in storage, because the Russians could not transport it

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 03-02-2014).]

Simply amazing.

**** you stan. Church on Sunday, and a whore the rest of the week. You talk about panties all the time, well put your big boy panties on, and practice what you preach. Christian? The **** you are. Funny how many "Christians" talk **** 6 days of the week, then get on their knees the seventh.

I see lots of problems here in the last few days--here being the US and North America as a whole. On one hand, we hold that free men ought to be able to remain free and that all men have a natural right to obtain freedom and have the right to self determination. On the other hand, we are now trying to persuade Russia that Crimea, a Russian speaking and Russian ethnicity, should remain as part of Ukraine. We don't get to have it both ways.
We have long fought (diplomatically) and threatened outright combat, to keep Taiwan from being taken in by Communist China.
We have supported various other nations and peoples in their desire to either break away from or remain apart from another nation. South Vietnam, South Korea...
Tibet, Southern Sudan, Yemen, Croatia, Cuba, and of course all the former Soviet satellite nation states. This is most notably seen in our decades long alliance with Israel, which as an ancient peoples, was given a homeland after WW2 and has been a protectorate of the US and other nations ever since. (I do agree with this btw)
Indeed, we as a nation are founded on the principal of self determination.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Read those words carefully. Note, that it doesn't say All white men, or All American men, or all English speaking men. (men being mankind) It says ALL men--and it doesn't specify who or where. If we believe this for ourselves, then we must also believe for anyone and everyone eveywhere else.

If the Crimeans want to separate from Ukraine, that should be and is their right as free men, and we as a nation or govt should not stand in their way.
The Crimean President ASKED Putin and the Russians for help to sever ties and allegance to Ukraine.

Putin has (thus far) given any indication that he intends to invade the northern part of Ukraine and re-install the old president and parliament. His focus is on Crimea. (Crimea btw, never asked to be part of Ukraine--it was "gifted" to Ukraine by Khrushchev in 1965)
Not can we claim this a matter of national security. Russia has a legal and binding traty with Ukraine for it's naval base on the Black Sea and if I remember correctly, it doesn't expire until 2045, so those Russian ships and troops are going to be there either way.

Otherwise, this is a European problem. There is no shortage of men, tanks, aircraft and material in the EU with which to "protect" Ukraine. The EU was formed mostly at the bequest of Germany and France for one specific reason--to take a bite out of US trade on a global scale, to compete with the US dollar and they've been more than successful at this goal. Why should we now help them do something that can only hurt us in the long run, assuming Ukraine eventually joins the EU?
It's high time we drop the double standard, and even more so, that it is long past time for Europe to stand on it's own 2 aristocratic feet and take care of it's own troubles. We have enough of our own.

Should Putin actually invade the whole of Ukraine and try to claw them back into Russia, or invade a European nation such as Germany or Poland as part of this endeavor, then that is a different matter altogether, but I don't see that happening.
We don't get to eat our cake and have it sitting prettily on the table too.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-02-2014).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Read those words carefully. Note, that it doesn't say All white men, or All American men, or all English speaking men. (men being mankind) It says ALL men--and it doesn't specify who or where. If we believe this for ourselves, then we must also believe for anyone and everyone eveywhere else.

Bingo.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Indeed, we as a nation are founded on the principal of self determination. When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Yeah. That worked out so well in the American Civil War. I did not see that Crimea declared causes of separation, much less announce a desire to do so.
I agree that this is Europe's/Ukraine's concern. However, as a member of NATO and as a promoter of the beacon of democracy, I feel we have an obligation to do something. If for no other reason than to let our friends know we will stand behind them and to be sure enemies know this.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Yeah. That worked out so well in the American Civil War. I did not see that Crimea declared causes of separation, much less announce a desire to do so. I agree that this is Europe's/Ukraine's concern. However, as a member of NATO and as a promoter of the beacon of democracy, I feel we have an obligation to do something. If for no other reason than to let our friends know we will stand behind them and to be sure enemies know this.

For some time now, a referendum has been scheduled in Crimea on this subject. Originally scheduled for May 2014, the Crimean Parliament has voted to have it moved up to the end of March because they were afraid the current leadership in Kiev would move to prevent it.
It asks only one question--yes or no.

(translated) "Autonomous Republic of Crimea has state independence and is part of Ukraine based on agreements and treaties." (yes or no).
A no vote, according to the writers and supporters f the referendum, means separation from Ukraine.

quote hey chanted “Russia” and “Berkut”, the name of Ukraine’s notorious special forces recently disbanded by the new government. The parliament building remains occupied by protesters who seized it on Thursday, raising a Russian flag above it. Some MPs were allowed into parliament and voted to hold a referendum on greater autonomy for Crimea later in the year. The referendum would ask people if Crimea should be part of Ukraine or have state independence. One supporter outside parliament told euronews: “I am for the independence. I am for an independent Crimea. I am against fascism. I think it is not right that some groups of people decide instead of us. They seized power. We did not elect neither Yatseniuk nor Turchinov.” Another said: “I think we should hold it [referendum] now, immediately. Call urgent session, urgent decision here and now. In two months I think it is nonsense. It is complete nonsense.”

http://www.euronews.com/201...-on-region-s-future/

Maryjane, Thanks for putting our thoughts out there. We don't have to go to war. If Ukrane and Crimea don't agree and there is a geological line that can separate them so that each can have their own way, why not?

If the Crimean's vote to separate from Ukraine in a legitimate referendum fine. I'm sure the U.N. would even monitor the referendum for fairness. That's not what's happening now. Now the Crimea is being separated from Ukraine at the point of a gun. Putin's kleptocracy is liberating the oppressed russian speaking people in the Crimea the way Hitler liberated the german speaking minority in the Sudetanland. Neither the Ukraine nor the Crimea are part of Russia and Russia has no business interfering in their business. I doubt a lot of the ethnic Russians living in the Crimea are very eager to rejoin Russia, preferring independence from both countries instead. That is what Putin is really trying to prevent, an independent Crimean state.

Is that an opinion from Crimea or from the US?
I've seen several BBC interviews from the streets of Simferopo, Belagorsk, and Sevastopol and they don't see things that way. They say they'll go either way--Russia or Independent--anything but Ukraine.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Is that an opinion from Crimea or from the US? I've seen several BBC interviews from the streets of Simferopo, Belagorsk, and Sevastopol and they don't see things that way. They say they'll go either way--Russia or Independent--anything but Ukraine.

This is exactly what my supervisor is saying. Anything but Ukraine. They never wanted to become Ukranian, and were forced into it.

Once again, stop believing our government sheeples. We need to stay the heck out of this fight.

Watch this video of just how the area has changed over the last 1000 years.

Tony Kania ,my body is covered with wounds & scars ,the results of being a big boy, there will always be big mouth yellow belly ,traitor, cowardly, MARXIST, lefties hiding behind thier computer who deminish me,try to shame me ! I do not care if Al Qada sympathizer yellowstone & angry Tony Kania hate me.. I am proud to have a coward like Tony Kania hate me.. from here forth when you think Tony Kania think COWARD behind computer
unlike the coward Tony Kania,, I have a sence of humour ,,I am the warrior of Jesus Christ ,,I will never fit your cowardly atheist view of what a Christian should be
...I do not back down from the liberal, marxist, atheist ,democrat scum that is destroying America from with in. I attack them, there are many,many here & they all hate me !!
remember TONY KANIA !!you are a "coward" never forget ..think about it, savor your cowardness,,& the safety you live in..
the atheist will bring down the western world & try to destroy Christianity
All Atheist are perfectly intune with the cruel ,atheist Russian invaders ,they are your soul mates ,brothers & true atheist kindred spirits! Join them ..
one day soon the atheist will vastly outnumber the Christians..It is not easy to be a Christian !! How ever ,no brain required to believe in nothing but rock & roll,, & hate Christians ..
TRY NOT TO THINK TONY KANIA ""COWARD""
am I still the most beloved forum members??
save America send all atheist to Russia ,no sweat,you will fit in .. the Chinese would not accept you

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 03-02-2014).]

Uhlanstan, just to be clear, do you consider me an enemy?
I mean to you, to my country, or even to myself?

Just trying to get a feel for who you think I am.
You can be truthful, I can take it.

Boon dawg you are a clear thinker !a great guy you just think differently
than me I realize I am a lightning rod but many here fear to be so blunt
& I have told them to stand clear of my more vo lo tile post so they do not
get any democrat liberal marxist feces on them

Boondawg you & Patrick ,both are assets to the community,,I do not dislike men just
because they do not like me & join in on the lefty attacks it is what atheist do!!

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 03-02-2014).]

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: I have told them tosatnd clear of my more volotile post so they do not get any democrat liberal feces on them.

Me thinks you're confused as to the source of the feces.

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: Boon dawg you are a clear thinker !a great guy you just think differently than me

Cool.
I'm no enemy.

Dead weight........possibly.

Back to the real world!!
Ukraine & Russia are at war
Loud explosions heard in simferopol
Russian sent false message to Ukraine Marines to surrender they thought message had come from Kiev,they did not surrender
Ukraine Marines have the spirit ,many are ethnic russian,but will fight ! they are surrounded by hundreds of Russians, ask to give up thier Guns !! one Marine said "come & get them "
russians have assaulted & taken the belbeck ammo depot
Ukraine infantry base has placed a Tank at thier gate with a squad to guard gate,, hundreds of russians out side have ask them to surrender thier weapons
russian troops have taken over almost all Ukraine military & Police instalations.some by force.. clear acts of war,,Ukraine troops were disarmed
America & Britain signed a treaty to defend Ukraine ,but the strong are gone & the weak incompetent rule !!& most americans would not give up the creme in thier coffee for Ukraine, we are a nation of spineless men who will want some one else to fight & defend them..It is why we have so many women in the Military!! there is nothing worth fighting for.
Russian nuclear subs patrol our east coast & now the Chinese nuclear subs patrol the west coast Americans paid for the Subs
Russians are digging a long trench accross the entrance,& total length of Crimea
many more Russian troops have arrived ,A russian Marine troop landing ship "orsk " a mini Heli Carrier is now in Crimea
the Russians thugs, hundreds of them now control Kharkov the 2nd largest city,& they also control Donesk,, the center of Ukraine new commerce!! that will disapear
this is destroying Ukraine ,, they are broke ,,the democrats destroyed the economy & frighten western investment away..almost all party of regions top members are rich
they also have a sort of control over Lugansk
the Russians have a clone of the A10 warthog called the frogfoot
the majority of ethnic Russian want Russian control ,just like the Mexicans will want to rule parts of America one day!!did you hear the latest high school crap!!no american flag Tshirts allowed
..The last high school football game I went to, the mexicans students did not stand for the
National Anthem

The Russians took control of an ammo dump and airport at Belbek--in Crimea. [yawn.............]

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: I am the warrior of Jesus Christ

I am Napoleon

Bonaparte or the XIV?

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: I really don't want to agree with yellowstone, but he's right. The armament of the EU isn't anything to sneeze at. SNIP There's a lot more that goes into it than just the armored divisions.

Yeah, like whether or not they'd even get involved. I have my doubts.

------------------
Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: I am Napoleon

I thought I recognized you.

In the Russian assault on the belbeck airport & ammo dump only one Ukrainian was seriously wounded.assault was with light arms & grenades .
Perevalne naval & infantry base still surrounded ,Many more troops arrived,electricity to base shut off.
Marine base at Fedosia ,Crimea surrounded by hundreds of top line troops with a thousand some distance away,,Marines ordered not to fight
all communication under russian control.Local Crimea politicians ,all replaced with russian puppets ,,Russians are 60% of Crimea population they welcome Russians happily !
there was absolutely no danger to ethnic russian..zero.
Russian flags brought into Kharkov by hundreds of Russian provocateurs & are everywhere........ A pro Ukraine rally was attacked & hundreds injured , By club weilding thugs rushing into the unarmed crowd,,the ethnic Russians are united & want the russians to invade !!Kharkov Ukrainians are terrified,Careful what you wish for
Kharkov only 20 miles from Russia,,reinforced Russian tank division at the border..
Russian parliment votes 100% to approve troop deployment in Crimea ,,voting other wise
could be hazerdous to your position & health
the russian propaganda machine is pedal to the metal,,full throttle all day in eastern Ukraine.. the people are told the most outrageous lies & they believe!!I am getting Emails from russian girls calling all Ukrainians NAZI fascist, & paid western agents & Ukrainians only want to kill Russians ,, there was none of this untill a few days ago ,the quickness of the reversal is very strange,weird !! heavy indoctrination ! but what the rat,democrats eat up every NPR propaganda lie,Cheney & Rumsfeld ran the goverment, Prez Bush was an idiot being my fave !! Bush is something of an intellectual ,but his Texas drawl has a negative effect on the liberal hate crowd.. Bush was a fighter pilot..Obumbles was a.........
the Original Crimeans the tartars,a million of them were sent to russian concentration camps ,during WW2 & Russians were sent to Repopulate the Crimea..Tartars are Moslems ,have close tie to Turkey,which is on the Black sea
they are not happy right now 12% of Crimea population

Poland has moved almost every Tank to the Ukraine border
the poles have been under the Russians atheist cruel killing boot !

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 03-03-2014).]

A "war" of atrocity with one person injured.
The B******s of Belbek will go down in history as one of the most horrendous battles ever fought.

My supervisor/trainer's wife is from the Ukraine. He did not want to talk about it. Tanks are sitting in the front yard of their yard. No joke. I did not ask him any other questions about it. I saw the concern on his face this morning, and knew to leave it alone.

Admiral of russian black sea fleet went aboard Ukraine war ship & ask them to surrender
NO,ship has thier guns manned 24 /7 surrounded at dock,blocking cable installed Ukrainians back in control of belbeck ammo depot
Russians have occupied Kerch taken the border guards hostage ,now Russian troops & personel carriers are pouring accross the 2 mile strait on the ferry

Ukrainian Marines trapped by a thousand russian elite troops ,,so far they refuse to surrender ,,The infantry base also holding out
Ukraine military personel recieving cell phone message to give up especialy the ethnic russian Marines are being barraged by Russians asking them to give up,, they are trapped in a smell base LIKE FISH IN BARREL THERE SEEM TO BE A LOT OF ARMOUR CARS WITH CANNONS surrounding them
Russian troops have no insignia,,many claim to be Crimea defence force, but are well armed & have tanks & armour cars with russian plates & heavy machine guns & rocket launchers
Russian troops have attacked Ukraine border stations ,but not held on to them ,probing to see response,,no Ukraine troops in the area.This is not good because 100s of thugs are in Kharkov bussed in From russia
A ethnic Russian on video said Obama has soiled his panties on one post I look at
..The beating of Ukrainians by ethnic Russians in Kharkov is available on video
over 20,000 russian troops in Crimea,probably 25,000 now
Trains still operate normally ,but passengers are closely checked

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: snip

Bricks shall be shat.

$1,000,000,000 in aid promised to Ukraine.

Hey, it is only a billion. I mean, where else could the money that we pay these goons (our representatives) go? Let's see:

Kids in America that are hungry.

To help pay off our debt.

To help protect it's citizens.

To help stabilize the economy.

To give 20,000 people wages of $50,000.

etc.

Feed our kids first Mr. President. Enough of this. A billion dollars can provide food for a lot of children, and for a long time. A billon dollars.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Feed our kids first Mr. President.

It is not the job of gooberment to feed kids.

Deleted. Posted in wrong topic.

[This message has been edited by Pauls DOHC (edited 03-04-2014).]

Russian troops are threatening the children & wifes of the Marines they have surrounded
they are calling the Marines on cell phones & texing.
for some reason there is very little food in the base & the russians plan to starve them out
there is a desparaate rush to move children to hidden locations
only one attemp so far to capture a wife & child ,the atheist russians followed the wife when she left the base for her home the girls parents got her & the child out a back entrance they saw the armed atheist comming the atheist want the children to use as bait & hostage Do not forget the majority of the Russian scum is atheist,so harming children & the helpless is no problem tho many russian women are orthodox Catholic
there are older women at the gate of the base, look like mothers ..no pretty women at the gates in a country of beauties , the russian atheist has previously harrassed the young women

some ethnic Russians are learning the truth & rallying to Ukraine side ,mostly Russian Christians who can see that the hate filled Russian atheist are destroying thier country, they have marched in Donetsk there is video of this ..suprised me??
& Kharkov
I spend at least 6 hours a day following this crap only a very small % of Americans care . I have intel sources not available to the public ,,they do not understand the importance of Ukraine,could care less ..
we let Hitler have the sudetenland & part of Czechoslovakia & 95% said who cares..
the british & germans will not do anything they want Russian business & Putin knows this.
the russians purchase 2.7 million new cars last year
every one wants a piece of the new russian wealth ,,who care about a few dead Ukrainians ,screw freedom untill the gun is in my face,, then i want some one to do something, as long as I suffer no inconvience!! much more important ,what are the Kardasheians up to ??
war is comming!! hope someone puts a full metal jacket bullet in Putins brain operating group..

That "intel" has proved false almost from the beginning. Most of it, I can show as unsubstantiated and are unreliable tweets from un-named sources hidden behind twit usernames.

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: Do not forget the majority of the Russian scum is atheist,so harming children & the helpless is no problem

Just cut it out. Because good Christians could never, ever harm the helpless and the children...

Here's an in idea for you: start following the teachings of your own prophet and then judge others (he had something to say about that, too, if I remember correctly).

And for good measure:

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 03-04-2014).]

Too much agent orange other stan? Keep on living that good life.

I hope you find peace one day son. Perhaps you will enjoy it. It's not to late. Live out a long peace full life. Follow your faith to happiness. Find joy.

So, what's going to happen when the Ukrainians finally get their stuff together and threaten to start blowing apart pipelines in their territory is the Russians don't back off?

quote Originally posted by Grandaddy84SE: So, what's going to happen when the Ukrainians finally get their stuff together and threaten to start blowing apart pipelines in their territory is the Russians don't back off?

They won't do it because all countries that receive gas through those pipelines and that currently support the new Ukrainian leadership politically would turn against them immediately.

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 03-05-2014).]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Europe depends on the gas and oil, Russia depends on the money. If some small group of ultra-nationalist Ukrainians were to blow up a pipe line the Ukraine could ask for assistance from the EU to protect the pipelines. The fact that these pipelines cross Ukrainian territory gives the Ukraine huge leverage, imposing a transit tax or charging an ecology protection surtax could reap them huge profits, all they need is europe's guarantee of protection or membership in NATO. The only source of gas and oil to Crimea appears to run through Ukraine, could be a good place to start turning off the tap.