Some more

“The Bible records God speaking audibly to people many times (Exodus 3:14; Joshua 1:1; Judges 6:18; 1 Samuel 3:11; 2 Samuel 2:1; Job 40:1; Isaiah 7:3; Jeremiah 1:7; Acts 8:26; 9:15 – this is just a small sampling). There is no biblical reason why God could not or would not speak to a person audibly today. With the hundreds of times the Bible records God speaking, we have to remember that they occur over the course of 4,000 years of human history. God speaking audibly is the exception, not the rule. Even in the biblically recorded instances of God speaking, it is not always clear whether it was an audible voice, an inner voice, or a mental impression.

God does speak to people today. First, God speaks to us through His Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Isaiah 55:11 tells us, “So is my word that goes out from my mouth: it will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.” The Bible records God’s words, everything we need to know in order to be saved and live the Christian life. Second Peter 1:3 declares, “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of Him who called us by his own glory and goodness.”

Second, God speaks through impressions, events, and thoughts. God helps us to discern right from wrong through our consciences (1 Timothy 1:5; 1 Peter 3:16). God is in the process of conforming our minds to think His thoughts (Romans 12:2). God allows events to occur in our lives to direct us, change us, and help us to grow spiritually (James 1:2-5; Hebrews 12:5-11). First Peter 1:6-7 reminds us, “In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.”

Finally, God may sometimes speak audibly to people. It is highly doubtful, though, that this occurs as often as some people claim it does. Again, even in the Bible, God speaking audibly is the exception, not the ordinary. If anyone claims that God has spoken to him/her, always compare what is said with what the Bible says. If God were to speak today, His words would be in full agreement with what He has said in the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16-17). God does not contradict Himself.”
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-still-speak.html


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“…We have something the Old Testament saints didn’t – the complete Scriptures, which are the inspired words of God, to read and study and meditate upon. The Apostle Paul tells us that “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Therefore, application of God’s written Word to our lives is just as effective and comforting to us as hearing His audible voice would be. If we have questions about a spiritual topic or decision we are facing, we can go to the Bible, confident that the words there are just as authoritative and good as God’s own voice. He has promised not to lead us contrary to the teachings and promises in the Bible (Titus 1:2).

Another important thing to remember is that only a believer – a person saved by His grace through faith in the Lord Jesus – can recognize God’s voice. Jesus said, “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:27). This implies that Jesus’ own flock will recognize His voice because they know Him, having learned about Him from the Scriptures. Reading the Bible creates an “imprint” of His voice in their minds, and when He speaks to their hearts, it is obvious to them that He is the one speaking.

The more time believers spend in the Word, listening to God, and speaking in return to Him in prayer, the easier it will be to recognize His voice and His leading in our lives. We should know Him so well, because we know His voice through the Scriptures, that it will be obvious to us when He prompts or leads our conscience by the Holy Spirit, or if He speaks in an audible way. It is important to remember that the lack of an audible voice from God in the life of a believer is not in any way a sign that God does not love that believer, or that He is displeased with him. We should seek to know the Lord through the Word, not through extra-biblical revelation, because as Peter tells us, even though he and the other apostles saw Jesus in His glory and heard the voice of God coming down from Heaven, we now have “a more sure word of prophecy” (2 Peter 1:18-19).”
http://www.compellingtruth.org/voice-of-God.html

quote Originally posted by Jonesy: Sorry, but i just don't see it as a book of history or evidence. The faith part is right, as thats all the book has going for it.. The STORIES which is all they are, where written after Jesus died, long after.. No actual witnesses wrote that book, nobody from Jesus lifetime, wrote that book.. No real historical facts either, other than places mentioned, some that may have not even been real.. Of course then the book was changed, parts omitted that the church thought went against their vision of Jesus as divine, so those parts where just left out.. Then men of power changed the book many times over the centuries to fit their own purpose and wants. I don't see how anyone could see any of that "historical evidence" as proof of God.. When in reality its just a book written by men, too control other men.. Good stories too instill fear in little kids though... Get them on the wagon early

I dont mind talking about religion, I dont mind answering (when I can) questions that are sincere, BUT I have to ask "Why do you feel the need to express your doubt in God so often were you obviously dont even care about the topic of the thread you post in?"

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: You know that I respect you. With that said, why do so many feel the need to express their beliefs about religion. Why can I not sit at home, and read Pennocks without some religious person(s) knocking at my door? I have never had a non believer like myself knock at my door. Although they would be treated the same way. "No thank you, but good luck, and enjoy your day."

The respect is mutual, in fact there are MANY people on PFF that I respect even when we have STRONG disagreements. The only thing I can say about your question is that you should ask them. I dont want to put words in their mouths. I can guess at why they may be doing it? That guess is two fold: 1) they are "working" to earn some type of spiritual points from God: 2) They actually feel that they have the truth and feel a concern for those that dont know the truth, so they want to help spread the truth (as they see it).


So just to put things in perspective, I may have maybe two visits a year from people that knock on my door, but here on PFF I have to skip over twice that many posts from people that express disbelief in threads each week. So I would think that we are more likely to be bombarded with comments against God than people knocking at the door with kindness asking to give a sales pitch for their religion?
Yes I know people on PFF do boldly express faith in God in threads as well, it goes both ways.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 12-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Jonesy: ..where written after Jesus died, long after.. No actual witnesses wrote that book, nobody from Jesus lifetime, wrote that book..

Old Testament books
in their inspired order *
(Years are B.C.)


Genesis 1445 - 1405
Nahum 711
Exodus 1445 - 1405
Habakkuk 626
Leviticus 1445 - 1405
Zephaniah 626
Numbers 1445 - 1405
Haggai 520
Deuteronomy 1445 - 1405
Zechariah 520 to 518
Joshua 1067 - 1050
Malachi c. 400
Judges 1067 - 1050
Psalms 1010 - 585
1Samuel 757 to 696
Proverbs 970 to 686
2Samuel 757 to 696
Job 1660s
1Kings 757 to 696
Song of Solomon 970 to 930
2Kings 809 to 757
Ruth 1060s
Isaiah 757 to 696
Lamentations 608 to 586
Jeremiah 626 to 585
Ecclesiastes 970 to 930
Ezekiel 597 to 570
Esther 585 to 572
Hosea 796 to 719
Daniel 605 to 530
Joel 595 to 585
Ezra 586 to 513
Amos 796
Nehemiah 565 to 513
Obadiah 590
1Chronicles 586 to 513
Jonah 798
2Chronicles 586 to 513
Micah 740 to 711


New Testament books
in their inspired order *
(Years are A.D.)


Matthew 35
1Corinthians 56
Mark 42
2Corinthians 57
Luke 59
Galatians 53
John 42 and 95
Ephesians 61 to 63
Acts 1-12 59
Philippians 61 to 63
Acts 13-15 44 to 46
Colossians 61 to 63
Acts 16-18 50 to 52
1Thessalonians 50
Acts 18-21 58
2Thessalonians 51
Acts 21-28 61 to 63
Hebrews 61 to 63
James 40 to 41
1Timothy 63
1Peter 64 to 65
2Timothy 67
2Peter 65 to 66
Titus 63
1, 2 and 3John 63 to 64
Philemon 61 to 63
Jude 66 to 67
Revelation 95
Romans 57

Notes
John began the main part of his gospel in 42 A.D. but did not complete it until he was on the island of Patmos in 95 A.D.

Luke wrote Acts 1 to 13 when apostle Paul was in a Roman Caesarea prison from 58 to 60 A.D. He also wrote Acts 13-28 as he traveled with the Apostle Paul during his missionary journeys. Paul's first journey ran from 44 to 46, the second from 49 to 52, the third from 53 to 58, the fourth from 60 to 63 and the final one from 63 to 67 A.D. Paul writes five books while held as a prisoner in Rome awaiting his trial before Caesar (61 to 63)! He is released from prison in 63 A.D., conducts his fifth journey, and is back in one of Rome's prisons in 67 A.D. He writes his last epistle, a final letter to his fellow evangelist and most trusted friend Timothy, while under guard for one last time. Paul dies in the middle of 68 A.D., just weeks before Emperor Nero kills himself.
http://www.biblestudy.org/m...ks-of-the-bible.html

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Also consider how long it takes to hand write pages with a quill, and how rare this was.

"If you look into works produced in antiquity, about alexander the great and so forth (written almost 500 years after his reign which are considered historic fact), you find out that the books about jesus were reletively written extremely soon after the fact. remember that 60AD society was oral, paper was not produced in great quantity, orating the story would have been much more sensible rather than writing it on paper."

"I think it is because the apostles were too busy trying to spread the word and running away from people that were trying to kill them. Also, back in those days it was real expensive to have a manuscript printed (not printed like today, it would have been written by hand). It would have had to be printed on animal hyde or something like that. You had to have alot of money, so I think when they started to get things like this, they were able to have these books made."

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"Usually letters were written on parchment, which was worked leather, or on papyrus. Papyrus was a composition of thin, crossed strips of an Egyptian river reed. It varied in thickness and smoothness, and was formed into sheets measuring about 10 or 12 inches wide. Neither parchment nor papyrus offered the smooth writing surface we expect in paper today.

A pen was made from a split reed or a goose quill. The sticky ink was a mixture of carbon and glue or gum. With rough quality papyrus writ­ing was very difficult and the scribe struggled intently to form each letter.

...Because writing was a tedious task, only two or three hours in a working day could be devoted to a letter. It is estimated that the Letter to the Romans must have occupied Paul and his secre­tary at least 32 days at three hours a day, or a maximum of 49 days at two hours a day."
https://melkite.org/faith/faith-worship/st-paul

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-28-2012).]