Edit to add I own page 3

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Thank you for your reply. Yes, some people do hunt with AK-47s, and AR-15's, etc. But, I wanted to explore this statement a bit further. I'm not trying to nit pick, but want to explain why I think there's a lot of misinformation out there. The first question I have is why do you consider an AK-47 an assault rifle? I'm not trying to play gotcha or change your mind. I just want to know where your decision came from. It's worth pointing out there are both military and civilian versions of the AK-47, and both go by the name AK-47. That in itself leads to some confusion. A military AK-47 is fully automatic. A civilian AK-47 is semi-automatic. Both look virtually identical and fire the same ammo, but are totally different in how they operate. It's a bit easier with the M16. The civilian version of the M16 is called an AR15, so having a different name makes it easier to differentiate. Just like the AK47, the military version is fully-automatic (or some models fire 3-round bursts), while the civilian AR15 is semi-automatic only. So what criteria do you use to decide a rifle is an assault weapon? If we got rid of names completely and I just told you rifle A and rifle B, what type of specification would there need to be for you to say one was an assault rifle and the other wasn't? The second question is, how do you feel about hunting rifles?

It really doesn’t matter, AK-47 or whatever, the second amendment was made to prevent our own government from getting out of control. It was made so we always had the ability to fight our own government just like those guys in 1776 defeated their own corrupt government.

They wanted every citizen to have the ability to fight any corrupt government that came down the road.

We don’t need to prove they were meant for hunting or anything else they were made to protect us from our governments when they get out of hand like the British did then.

They knew it would happen again and wanted us all to be prepared.

Now if some other country wants to not let their countrymen to just lie down and take whatever the government gives them then shame on them.

We have the second amendment to protect us, not the government and the government neads to stop trying to slowly take our rights away.

Steve


------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 12-18-2012).]

quote Originally posted by User00013170: ( i was being sarcastic btw.. )

I know, I was just adding some color for those tha think it is a good idea. I have heard this come up..

quote Originally posted by carnut122: Let me sum it up. Continue doing what we're doing and getting the same if not more lethal results, or start doing something to reduce the body count at the next school shooting.

Well, we could start by doing away with all the liberals who have worked so hard to create the "it's not your fault" mentality. Reinstate prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, (with the word "God" and everything), do away with expressions like "baby-daddy" (try "husband" or even "boyfriend" or "fiance" instead, slut) and then try to instill some discipline and self respect back into our kids without the interference of the Birkenstock crowd. That would be a good jumping point, but probably makes too much sense.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: Well, we could start by doing away with all the liberals who have worked so hard to create the "it's not your fault" mentality. Reinstate prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, (with the word "God" and everything), do away with expressions like "baby-daddy" (try "husband" or even "boyfriend" or "fiance" instead, slut) and then try to instill some discipline and self respect back into our kids without the interference of the Birkenstock crowd. That would be a good jumping point, but probably makes too much sense.

WTF does any of that have to do with gun control?
Remember that little fraise;
”Separation of church and state?”
Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by carnut122: Let me sum it up. Continue doing what we're doing and getting the same if not more lethal results, or start doing something to reduce the body count at the next school shooting.

I am getting a new level III bullet proof vest to keep at school.

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: Wait, stop the presses. Someone living in California calling for more gun control. Your thread title implies you are budging on what you previously held as a hard lined issue. I doubt very seriously you've budged your stance much at all.

I was being sarcastic, read my very first post. My idea of the needed gun controle is a Federaly mandated death sentance for those that use guns in a violent crime.

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: Not sure why you think this is breaking news. Tragic event, I feel sorrow for all those involved.

I said nothing about any "news" and exactly who does not feel sorrow over tragic events?

some of the "assault rifle" thing was the fact that it went by names - not by actual attributes.
muzzle velocity
rate of fire
ammo capacity
stop using names, and use actual variable for definitions. makes things clearer.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: I am getting a new level III bullet proof vest to keep at school.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...y-Hook-massacre.html


Sales of bullet-proof backpacks for kids TRIPLE after Sandy Hook massacre

...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/...cre_in_american.html

The recent shootings in Newtown, Conn., have led many people to characterize school violence as a modern affliction, a byproduct of our national obsession with guns and media violence. But the deadliest school-related massacre in American history happened in 1927, at an elementary school in Bath, Mich. A school board member named Andrew Kehoe, upset over a burdensome property tax, wired the building with dynamite and set it off in the morning of May 18. Kehoe’s actions killed 45 people, 38 of whom were children.

At the time, Bath was a small farm community with under 300 residents. The town had “an elevator, a little drugstore, and you knew everybody within 20 miles,” as one survivor of the attack recalled in 2009. Perhaps its most modern feature was the Bath Consolidated School, which opened its doors in 1922 and brought all the region’s students under one roof. In The Bath School Disaster, published in 1927 and available online here, Kehoe’s neighbor, Monty J. Ellsworth, noted that the consolidated school was markedly superior to the “common country school” that preceded it. It was also more expensive, and the township raised property taxes in order to repay the school’s bonds.

This upset Andrew Kehoe. A local farmer with training as an electrical engineer, he was a severe, stubborn man fond of drastic solutions to small problems; Ellsworth writes that Kehoe once shot a noisy dog and killed his own horse because it was lazy. In an article from May 20, 1927, the New York Times noted that Kehoe “was known through the countryside as a ‘dynamite farmer’. Neighbors detailed how he was continually setting off blasts on his farm, blowing up stumps and rocks.”

Kehoe really hated taxes, and joined the school board to argue against them. The Times reported that, as a board member, he “appeared to have a tax mania and fought the expenditure or money for the most necessary equipment.” In 1926, he ran for town clerk, but his obstructionist reputation preceded him, and he was defeated. His loss in that race, coupled with the news that his farm was facing foreclosure, appears to have triggered his plan.

Over the course of several months, Kehoe gained access to the school and packed it tight with dynamite that was wired together so expertly that, after the explosion, investigators could hardly believe that Kehoe had acted alone. A few days before the attack, Kehoe visited Monty Ellsworth for a round of target shooting; afterwards, Ellsworth looked inside Kehoe’s vehicle and saw “a box in the back about two feet long and 12 or 14 inches wide which was about half full of rifle shells. I believe there must have been a thousand of them.”

The school exploded at 8:45 a.m. on May 18. At that point, after killing his wife and destroying his farm, Kehoe hopped inside an explosive-laden truck and drove to the school. Thirty minutes after the initial attack, while conversing with the superintendent, he detonated the truck bomb, killing himself, the superintendent, and a few others. Later, investigators found that a short circuit in Kehoe’s wiring was the only thing that stopped the attack from claiming more lives, as “more than 500 pounds of dynamite and several sacks of gunpowder were found under a portion of the building that remained standing.” If the explosion had gone as planned, Bath’s entire downtown might have been destroyed.

Like the Newtown school shooting, the Bath bombing was a major news story. Ellsworth writes, “I think we had the greatest demonstration of American sympathy ever awarded a grief stricken community. Thousands and thousands of cars stayed in line for hours. I have a gas station one-half mile west of Bath on the main road to Lansing, where there was a double row of traffic all day. In the afternoon it took about four hours to get three miles, but I don't remember … hearing a single horn sounded. It was like a great funeral procession. Everyone's heart was filled with sympathy.”

But the attention was short-lived. In an interview this summer with the Christian Science Monitor, Arnie Bernstein, author of 2009’s Bath Massacre: America’s First School Bombing, noted that “there wasn't a media frenzy like today. The media came in and left. Three days after it happened, Lindbergh took off and flew to Paris, and that part of it was over.”

It took the people of Bath much longer to recover. In 2009, NPR went back to the town and found several survivors of the attack still living. Now in their 90s, the survivors noted that “we still look at ourselves as survivors. So you look after one another differently, because you know that the absolute unthinkable can happen, even going to school.”

An inquest eventually determined that Kehoe had acted alone. Amid the ruins of Kehoe’s farm, they found a sign attached to a fence. It read: “Criminals are made, not born.”

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Edit to add I own page 3 It really doesn’t matter, AK-47 or whatever, the second amendment was made to prevent our own government from getting out of control. It was made so we always had the ability to fight our own government just like those guys in 1776 defeated their own corrupt government. They wanted every citizen to have the ability to fight any corrupt government that came down the road. We don’t need to prove they were meant for hunting or anything else they were made to protect us from our governments when they get out of hand like the British did then. They knew it would happen again and wanted us all to be prepared. Now if some other country wants to not let their countrymen to just lie down and take whatever the government gives them then shame on them. We have the second amendment to protect us, not the government and the government neads to stop trying to slowly take our rights away. Steve

I agree completely. I was just pointing out the folly of trying to ban "evil" weapons when the so-called "good" weapons (hunting rifles, etc.) are frequently more powerful and function exactly the same. The ban is based more on how it looks than what it does.

But I'm in full agreement of you on the 2nd amendment.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I agree completely. I was just pointing out the folly of trying to ban "evil" weapons when the so-called "good" weapons (hunting rifles, etc.) are frequently more powerful and function exactly the same. The ban is based more on how it looks than what it does. But I'm in full agreement of you on the 2nd amendment.

You agree with me

Hell has frozen over and dad finally got his ice cold beer in hell.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

It is difficult, if not impossible, to come up with a collective solution to an individual problem.......

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: You agree with me Hell has frozen over and dad finally got his ice cold beer in hell. Steve

I think we probably agree on many things, as long as we don't discuss unions or higher eduation.
I'm certain that had either of us been there when the shooting started, we would have done anything in our power to stop it.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I think we probably agree on many things, as long as we don't discuss unions or higher eduation. I'm certain that had either of us been there when the shooting started, we would have done anything in our power to stop it.

As did those poor defenseless teachers. Now had JUST ONE of them been carrying, just one this would have been so different.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: As did those poor defenseless teachers. Now had JUST ONE of them been carrying, just one this would have been so different. Steve

This is a flat fact.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: This is a flat fact.

To those that say IF guns didn’t even exist this never would have happened, they need some serious therapy.

They do, they have been around for hundreds of years and will be for hundreds more. You can’t just wish them gone, they are here and they are here to stay.

So the only real recourse is to be armed yourself to prevent things like this from happening to you and those around you. If you are armed at least you have a fighting chance.

Unarmed you are just another body in the body count of the dead.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Powerful words from a father of a child killed at Columbine.

http://msgboard.snopes.com/...s/graphics/scott.pdf

quote "Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers." "The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart." "In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent." "I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy, it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best." Your laws ignore our deepest needs, Your words are empty air. You've stripped away our heritage, You've outlawed simple prayer. Now gunshots fill our classrooms, And precious children die. You seek for answers everywhere, And ask the question "Why?" You regulate restrictive laws, Through legislative creed. And yet you fail to understand, That God is what we need! "Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts." "As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge.. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone! My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!" - Darrell Scott

No amount of gun control would have stopped this from happening... mental illness or not He was in possession of a stolen gun, Family members can use carry and transport other household family members guns but only with the gun owners say so (alos you have to be of age and have a permit and legally able to have a gun)
By him killing his mom its safe to say he did not have her say so to have the gun So that files it as stolen, 2nd.. he broke carry law by bringing the gun onto school property, 3 he murdered vast amounts of people and committed a felony.. the only thing i would support from this is that someones mental status must be questioned before buying a gun. other than that there is no need for more gun control all that happend in newtown aside from a tragedy was multiple laws that are already in place being violated.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: I am getting a new level III bullet proof vest to keep at school.

We've had all kinds of law enforcement at my school all week, but it's mainly served to start rumors where none should have existed. I'm a little uneasy thinking about armed participants at some of the conferences I've sat in on. Sadly, I heard on the radio that somebody is marketing bulletproof back-packs for kids( I wish I was making it up).

edit: I see 2.5 beat me on the backpack.

[This message has been edited by carnut122 (edited 12-19-2012).]

Like many others who obey the laws and do not bring their guns in a gun free zone, making them just another one of the dead. The worst of something like this is the survivors who left their guns outside, like that woman, they will never forget it.

I find some gun free zones are just stupid.
Like schools, OK in the most recent case the students obviously should not be armed but the teachers should have been,

But you will never get anyone to believe that except those of who already own guns.

Most seem to think everyone would be better off with not being able to defend themselves. Especially the government who just want a defenseless people that they can control.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: But you will never get anyone to believe that except those of who already own guns.

Or people who get into a situation that they wish they had one. "incidents" will change a persons outlook on being against private gun ownership in an instant. As long as its the 'other guy' its easier to dictate against something.

It is interesting reading this thread from the start. It is also pointless. Nobody is changing anyone else’s mind. What I do find, and this is just my take, is that many of the arguments of those in favor of guns are really stupid. You can kill with a lot of other things, there are more traffic deaths than gun related deaths, if you are out hunting and 6 bears attack you then you need a semi-automatic weapon....at least try for some reasoning that makes sense.

I haven't read one argument yet for those in favor of guns that makes any kind of logical sense. Give everyone a gun and the problem goes away? Right. How safe would you feel knowing all the nut-cases you work with, and argue with at times, are packing. Go into a store and accidentally bump into someone or grab the last item that they wanted. You want all the teachers to have guns!? With or without proper training? I remember some of the teachers I had....I wouldn't be here if they had a gun!

Rick

[This message has been edited by couldahadaV8 (edited 12-20-2012).]

quote Originally posted by couldahadaV8: It is interesting reading this thread from the start. It is also pointless. Nobody is changing anyone else’s mind. What I do find, and this is just my take, is that many of the arguments of those in favor of guns are really stupid. You can kill with a lot of other things, there are more traffic deaths than gun related deaths, if you are out hunting and 6 bears attack you then you need a semi-automatic weapon....at least try for some reasoning that makes sense. I haven't read one argument yet for those in favor of guns that makes any kind of logical sense. Give everyone a gun and the problem goes away? Right. How safe would you feel knowing all the nut-cases you work with, and argue with at times, are packing. Go into a store and accidentally bump into someone or grab the last item that they wanted. You want all the teachers to have guns!? With or without proper training? I remember some of the teachers I had....I wouldn't be here if they had a gun! Rick

Well, you certainly cannot force common sense on anybody.

[This message has been edited by Red88FF (edited 12-21-2012).]

quote Originally posted by couldahadaV8: It is interesting reading this thread from the start. It is also pointless. Nobody is changing anyone else’s mind. What I do find, and this is just my take, is that many of the arguments of those in favor of guns are really stupid. You can kill with a lot of other things, there are more traffic deaths than gun related deaths, if you are out hunting and 6 bears attack you then you need a semi-automatic weapon....at least try for some reasoning that makes sense. I haven't read one argument yet for those in favor of guns that makes any kind of logical sense. Give everyone a gun and the problem goes away? Right. How safe would you feel knowing all the nut-cases you work with, and argue with at times, are packing. Go into a store and accidentally bump into someone or grab the last item that they wanted. You want all the teachers to have guns!? With or without proper training? I remember some of the teachers I had....I wouldn't be here if they had a gun! Rick

You like having to wait for the cops then? You have no problem with the idea that this thing in Connecticut took under ten min from start to the gunman shooting himself before the cops ever come into the building then.

As I pointed out that the Texas principle in another thread I think has such a rule. Teachers can request to bring their gun to school and carry concealed, BUT they have to take classes themselves for how to use a gun in school.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: **forgot to add. I heard the Superindentent of a Texas school district this morning in an interview. I got it late, so didnt hear what city. He said his district policy allows any teacher or office employee to have their weapon on them at school. They do have to request it, and they get some special school training before they are allowed to. Its an option and they dont have to bring it. Since they started it a few years ago, not once has anyone tried to bring any weapon into a school or school function.

I was not saying we should arm every teacher, just those who want to be armed. They have that right. No one who has a concealed carry permit gets one without going to a course that is to teach you how to use the weapon. And in a school they need to take more classes before they are ever allowed to carry there.

Other than you guys up north are afraid of guns has ever come across in any of your comments. Any of those who commented ever been in the service?

Have any of you ever even handled a gun?

While you like to wait for police to arrive, we don’t, we are not going to wait that 5 or 10 min for police to arrive.

Example

When I was being attacked by the next door neighbor nut with a sickle, the cops wanted me to stay on the phone with them and tell them what was happening instead of trying to defend myself. The woman was attacking me with a sickle and for some reason the moron cop didn’t know what a sickle was until the officers got here and found it. The 3 well-seasoned officers all said, “Holey SH!T” when they found it. The blade alone was at least 2’ long. Now just how do you defend yourself against that until the cops arrive?

And we are not talking about giving everyone a gun, just those that can pass the present NICS check and the concealed carry checks that are even more in depth than the NICS check.
I am beginning to think the cold has done something to your brains up there.

Steve


------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 12-20-2012).]

quote Originally posted by couldahadaV8: I haven't read one argument yet for those in favor of guns that makes any kind of logical sense. Rick

I am smarter than you, so my opinion trumps yours LOL YES.....OK next guy. (joke)
I dont have to convince you, I/we only have to have more people that vote and think like"us". Seems like you dont even listen to reason, you have made up your mind before any one can defend their position.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: 1) You like having to wait for the cops then? You have no problem with the idea that this thing in Connecticut took under ten min from start to the gunman shooting himself before the cops ever come into the building then. 2) Have any of you ever even handled a gun? 3)I am beginning to think the cold has done something to your brains up there.

1) Of course you have missed the whole point that without handy semi-auto weapons "this thing" wouldn't have happened in the first place.

2) Yes, handled and fired.

3) I don't know that the cold has anything to do with clearer thinking, but you could be right.

quote Originally posted by couldahadaV8: 1) Of course you have missed the whole point that without handy semi-auto weapons "this thing" wouldn't have happened in the first place.

That's a logical fallacy. You're assuming a ban or restriction will prevent it from happening, but there's no evidence of that.
How's the War on Drugs worked out for you? We don't have any problem with crackheads, and heroin addicts anymore since crack and heroin are illegal, right? Not "regulated" but outright illegal.

Mass shootings will happen and will continue to happen. Columbine happened during the Clinton era Assault Weapons Ban.
All it will mean is there's another charge to file against the killer - using an illegal weapon.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: You're assuming a ban or restriction will prevent it from happening, but there's no evidence of that.

No, nothing will completely prevent things like this from happening, but maybe it will reduce the number that might have happened? We will never know. Would this guy have gone out of his way to get the weapons he really wanted if they weren't so easily available to him, or would he have just set out with the pistols? We each decide what we think would have happened.

The pro-gun people aren't suggesting any way of dealing with the problem (people getting shot), they are only dealing with the effects of it (we can kill the person quicker after he has killed someone first). This is sort of like having a problem with your car (the oil light is coming on), so you deal with it by remembering to add oil more often. You aren't dealing with the initial problem (you are either burning oil or leaking it), you are dealing with the effects of the problem. With the gun thing, you are only dealing with an event after it has started. I am trying to think of how to prevent it from starting at all. And no, I don't have an answer.

I guess I can't understand why people say they need a gun for protection. Where on earth are you living that armed people are attacking you that often? I've lived a lot of years (decades in fact), I've lived in different places, travelled to a lot of different countries (yes, even the US many, many times), I have a lot of friends and coworkers that I've known for a long time. In all that I've never personally known anyone, myself included, that needed a gun to protect themselves from anything that ever happened to them. Maybe I just live in a different circle. If I ever thought I seriously needed a gun to protect myself I would take my family and move somewhere safer. I suppose others would choose to stay where they are and buy guns.

Rick

quote Originally posted by couldahadaV8: No, nothing will completely prevent things like this from happening, but maybe it will reduce the number that might have happened? We will never know. Would this guy have gone out of his way to get the weapons he really wanted if they weren't so easily available to him, or would he have just set out with the pistols? We each decide what we think would have happened. The pro-gun people aren't suggesting any way of dealing with the problem (people getting shot), they are only dealing with the effects of it (we can kill the person quicker after he has killed someone first). This is sort of like having a problem with your car (the oil light is coming on), so you deal with it by remembering to add oil more often. You aren't dealing with the initial problem (you are either burning oil or leaking it), you are dealing with the effects of the problem. With the gun thing, you are only dealing with an event after it has started. I am trying to think of how to prevent it from starting at all. And no, I don't have an answer. I guess I can't understand why people say they need a gun for protection. Where on earth are you living that armed people are attacking you that often? I've lived a lot of years (decades in fact), I've lived in different places, travelled to a lot of different countries (yes, even the US many, many times), I have a lot of friends and coworkers that I've known for a long time. In all that I've never personally known anyone, myself included, that needed a gun to protect themselves from anything that ever happened to them. Maybe I just live in a different circle. If I ever thought I seriously needed a gun to protect myself I would take my family and move somewhere safer. I suppose others would choose to stay where they are and buy guns. Rick

I see you think we have to wait until some invader kills someone before it is OK for us to shoot them,

Not the case.
If we see someone with a weapon coming to shoot us we have every right to shoot them first before they discharge their weapons. If I had only had my Glock within reaching distance I would not have even blinked before she would be history. See this is not the Wild West here anymore and those who fight to keep our gun rights do not always have their weapons on them. See most people feel safe inside their own home enough not to have their guns on their hip.

Pistols also have high capacity magazines, the Glock and the Sig the kid had in the resent school attack both had high capacity mags. My Glock has a 17 round mag and you can get even larger capacity mags.

So waiting for the police is a better idea, remember the cops only show up after something happens as well and they are only ten min away in the case we are talking about.

Even if one person did get shot in this case before an armed citizen could get a shot off, that is better than it was to WAIT for the cops.

And I have lived a lot of places in the US that were war zones at times. South Worcester for example, Want to see? Read the Worcester telegram and gazette, or the Boston globe. Just google them and read and learn, not a day goes by there is not someone killed by some nut.

See legal gun owners rarely go off on a shooting rampage, just the thieves and nuts like this one.
Some people don’t have wads of cash laying around to leave where they live behind and start in a new place, even those who do are few and far between. Problem with that is like where I live we had an 80 year old woman stabbed to death not 4 miles away from my home a couple of years ago and we are not in a big metropolis. Then not a few month ago people were invaded by armed nuts who kidnaped them.

See it doesn’t matter where you live bad things can happen. And you should be prepared.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

was reading an article about using RFID to make arms work only in the presence of the RFID key
pretty classic tech, very reliable. endless buildings use RFID for door access
The recent shooting guy would not have been able to use Mommy's guns

and - more important for "legal gun owners", dont have to worry about your own gun being used against you.

You are focusing on the first part of that article since it supports your viewpoint. I'll focus on the last part that supports mine. As I said, I would hate to live in a world where I need a gun with me to feel safe. I don't need a gun with me, or near me, to feel safe in my world. You do need one to feel safe in yours. Funny that it is the same world. We agree (?) to dissagree.

quote Originally posted by couldahadaV8: You are focusing on the first part of that article since it supports your viewpoint. I'll focus on the last part that supports mine. As I said, I would hate to live in a world where I need a gun with me to feel safe. I don't need a gun with me, or near me, to feel safe in my world. You do need one to feel safe in yours. Funny that it is the same world. We agree (?) to dissagree.

That part of the article was by anti-gun nuts. They feel like you do, that guns shouldn’t be in the hands of the public at all.

That ain’t ever going to happen, ever. Because even if they succeed in getting the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens the nuts, thieves and others will never give them up.

So how do you fight back?

Wait the 10 min it takes the cops to get there.

It will only allow more of this to happen, more often because they will know everyone is unarmed except them.
Oh ya your world is a fantasy world and even if you think it isn’t it is.
Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

couldahadav8 - I would bet you a million dollars everyone who went to school or sent their kids to school at Sandy Hook Elementary last Friday felt those kids were safe, yet 20 children are dead. The reason people carry is not to make them feel safe, but it is to allow them some control IF the crap hits the fan. I don't think any person who has resonded to this thread needs a gun to feel safe in the world. They choose to carry a gun because the world is a completely unpredictable place, especially when you are dealing with other people. While it is great that you feel safe in this world, tomorrow you could go to the store, ands some random person could come in with a weapon to rob the stoe, considered you a threat and kill you. A lot of good it would have done you to feel safe. True safety is found in being prepared for most contingencies that arrive. You have made the determination that if you are confronted by a criminal, or a crazy person with a gun, who is intent on harming you, you are okay with the police informing your relatives that you are dead or severely injured. Many here would rather tell their relatives, "Don't worry, I'm okay, but I need to sort this out with the authorities." Life can throw you a curve ball, how prepared you are to deal with that curve can be a matter of life and death. It is clear that you associate someone's desire to carry a weapon for their own protection as a weakness or a "need" for power born out of fear. In most cases it is an acknowledgment that certain things are out of one's control and a desire to be prepared. Most people don't want to carry, they look at it more as a responsibility to themselves and there family. Why would someone want to haul around a weapon? They require holsters and can be uncomfortable and you are always aware you have it. You are restricted in certain places you can go, they are inconvenient if you need to go somewhere they are not allowed and you have to be responsible when you carry. Most people don't carry a weapon to make them feel like the **** of the walk, they carry a weapon because they realize that there are bad and/or crazy people out there who are willing to hurt or kill you for little or no reason, to take what you have, to prove to there gang mates that they are "hard", or because they have finally snapped and feel the need to take people with them when they end it all. Carrying a weapon gives them the chance that they will survive if confronted in one of those situations.

Your opinions on gun control and concealed carry say much more about you and your willingness to let other people do the heavy lifting when it comes to your safety than they do about the people who advocate the position you oppose. Carrying a weapon is akin to carrying insurance. You have it in case something happens, but you pray to God nothing does. Are there people out there who carry a weapon as an extension of there penis? Probably, but it is my experience they are in the minority., Most people carry to be prepared, nothing more, nothing less. In all liklihood, if someone is carrying a weapon with a mindset other than outlined above, that person is probably carrying the weapon illegally and is most likely has committed a crime using a weapon or will commit a crime using a weapon. So gun more or stricter gun laws would not prevent that person from carrying a gun anyways.

Finally, as stated above, the United States Constitution provides that no law will be enacted that will restrict the right of American Citizens to bear arms. As a Canadian, you really have no skin in this game, but if we are going to violate the second amendment so some people can feel safer, what other amendments should we violate in the name of safety. Should we allow the government access to our homes whenever they want to they can determine if we are plotting a crime? Should we allow the government unfettered access to our e-mails, computers or mail in the hopes that we can find evidence that someone might break the law or go on a shooting rampage. Should we infringe on first amendment rights to free speech and ban violent video games, movies or songs with violent lyrics, because some teenager may listen to them and flip out and kill a bunch of people at the kwikie mart? Should we institutionalize everyone who has a mental disability or disease, or anyone who is depressed or steressed out, because we are afraid they may snap and go on a rampage? Maybe we should lock up digital alchemist, you know, his posts are kinda weird and subversive, I bet he is a loose cannon waiting to snap! (Just kidding DA, I love your posts... a refreshing change...like 7-up...the un-post!) I can hear you saying how ridiculous that is. Your right, they are significant infringements on fundamental rights granted by the Constitution and no one would consider that. Well so is infringing on an American Citizens right to bear arms. Just becuae you don't think it should be a right, it is, and it should stay that way. I could get further into this argument, but I won't. I don't think I could change your mind as to what you think is right and that is okay. Just consider what I have posted. Look at it from another perspective, if you will. I have looked at this issue from all sides, and so you know, I do own guns and I don't have a carry permit. I may get one in the future, if I am still afforded that right. Listen, I respect your opinion on this subject. All most CC carries are saying is give them the same respect they give you. You never know, someday your life may depend on someone else's willingness to carry a weapon.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: That part of the article was by anti-gun nuts.

Does that imply that the first part was written by pro-gun nuts?

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Oh ya your world is a fantasy world and even if you think it isn’t it is.

Don't know how you can say that when I've stated a fact. And if it is a fantasy, am I happier and more content living in my fantasy world than you are living in yours? That was a rhetorical question, so you don't have to answer it, just think about it.