quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: But when someone falls on hard time you are biatching that they don’t deserve it because they smoke or drink. Not true. Habits like those can be hard to quit, just ask anyone here who smokes and has tried to quit.

Nobody gives a crap about that. Ask a non-smoker if they care how hard it is for a smoker to stop smoking, or if a teetotaler cares how hard it is for an alcoholic to stop drinking, or if a gym rat cares how hard it is for an obese person to lose weight.
Whatever bad habit you have that someone else doesn't - they couldn't give a rat's ass what it takes for you to quit because they're already there.

It's not that they don't care about other people's plights. They don't care about other people's problems they themselves don't have to deal with. In many cases the ones who've been there and conquered the problem are the worst. Someone who quit smoking can be far less forgiving of smokers than someone who never smoked, etc.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 07-03-2012).]

When I was a smoker it was ok to smoke just about everywhere. No one thought about the rights of second hand smokers and I threw my butts on the ground without a thought. Times change. I don't feel good about what I did now and it's hard for me to believe how thoughtless towards others I was. You are right. I think that I am less tolerant towards smoke than non smokers

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Nobody gives a crap about that. Ask a non-smoker if they care how hard it is for a smoker to stop smoking, or if a teetotaler cares how hard it is for an alcoholic to stop drinking, or if a gym rat cares how hard it is for an obese person to lose weight. Whatever bad habit you have that someone else doesn't - they couldn't give a rat's ass what it takes for you to quit because they're already there. It's not that they don't care about other people's plights. They don't care about other people's problems they themselves don't have to deal with. In many cases the ones who've been there and conquered the problem are the worst. Someone who quit smoking can be far less forgiving of smokers than someone who never smoked, etc.

quote Originally posted by dratts: When I was a smoker it was ok to smoke just about everywhere. No one thought about the rights of second hand smokers and I threw my butts on the ground without a thought. Times change. I don't feel good about what I did now and it's hard for me to believe how thoughtless towards others I was. You are right. I think that I am less tolerant towards smoke than non smokers

Where as when I smoked, I didn't do those things. I didn't smoke in the house, car or around my children. I would distance myself from other people around me if I was in a park or something and I decided to have a ciggarette. I don't know, I guess it's just a matter of if one is respectful of another. If a smoker isn't willing to respect others, then they deserve the harsher treatment. On the other hand, if they respect others the way I did, I don't care if they smoke. Just pointing out that because you exhibited certain behaviours when you smoked doesn't mean all smokers exhibit those same behaviours.

I wish I had been as thoughtful as you were. I'm ashamed of my previous behavior. It's hard for me to believe how thoughtless I was. My intolerance of smoke now is due to my lungs reaction to smoke. I choke up if I have to inhale second hand smoke.

[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 07-04-2012).]

quote Originally posted by dratts: Taxpayers should be under no obligation to pay for unnecessary, damaging self behavior of others.

And your voting for Obama, what a laugh riot.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I don't disagree in theory, but in practice where do you draw the line? Smoking isn't healthy. Neither is drinking. or not exercising eating red meat being overweight being underweight driving a car without an airbag speeding (or any willful traffic violation) not washing your vegetables before eating them not getting enough fiber not wearing a motorcycle helmet (this is the reasoning we have helmet laws now in NC) not wearing a seatbelt in your car (same as motorcycle helmets) Once healthcare becomes a government dispensation that everyone pays for - it becomes everyone's business. Every decision you make that isn't healthy impacts everyone else. You may draw the line in one place and consider it perfectly reasonable. Someone else will invariably draw it somewhere else.

This list can be grown to include so much.

No undercooked meat. (rare, Med Etc.)
No foods high in cholesterol.
Soda is out.
Energy drinks, gone.
Coffee. (seriously, that stuff is horrible.)
Unprotected sex....With anyone.

The list could literally be endless. People die using a toaster? No more toasters.
Sure it sounds goofy, but so did seatbelt laws, and helmet laws, and soft drink size laws, and laws banning certain kinds of oil, and........

Brad

Plenty of rich people drinking every night too alcohol isn't a class issue it is a social problem. A material world isn't a requirement these people may have a vastly different outlook on life.

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: This list can be grown to include so much. No undercooked meat. (rare, Med Etc.) No foods high in cholesterol. Soda is out. Energy drinks, gone. Coffee. (seriously, that stuff is horrible.) Unprotected sex....With anyone. The list could literally be endless. People die using a toaster? No more toasters. Sure it sounds goofy, but so did seatbelt laws, and helmet laws, and soft drink size laws, and laws banning certain kinds of oil, and........ Brad

"Coffee. (seriously, that stuff is horrible.)"
3 cups daily linked to lower skin cancer risk

Coffee reduces heart failure

Coffee may help prevent Alzhiemers

Coffee and caffeine boosts muscle performance in the elderly

coffee reduces fibrosis in fatty liver disease]

Coffee may protect against endometrial cancer

coffee consumption associated with decreased risk of basal cell carcinoma

Coffee may keep the methicillin-resistant Staphyloccus aureus, or MRSA, bug away

coffee reduces risk of breast cancer

coffee reduces risk of 1 form of lethal prostrate cancer

coffee found NOT to increase risk of hypertension

quote Originally posted by twofatguys:

Want more?

Your results may vary and anything used in excess can have adverse effects.

quote Originally posted by dratts: .....No one thought about the rights of second hand smokers.............

With all the anti-smoking going on, I have REALLY become a hard-ass on that one, especially on/in my own property (car, home, yard, ect). Poeple who object to my smoking there and/or tossing my butts on the garage floor/lawn for later clean-up have the right (and are strongly encouraged) to shut up and leave. I have to be a little more civilized in public places, and I simply dont go (to the greatest extent possible) into places where smoking is banned or that have anti-smoking policies, and wherever possible I vote with my wallet against the products of companies that have taken an anti-smoking stance (I view it as an attack on individual liberties)

Back in 2003 when Ontario made all restaurants/bars 100% non-smoking by law (eliminating smoking areas) I simply quit going to them. Now it has become popular for bars with patios to make the patio non-smoking, and those too have lost my business. It dont hurt my wallet or feelings any to go someplace else or grab a 6-pack to enjoy at home, but it does hurt their bottom line. No matter how many sales they replace mine with, there will always be that one more they could have had except for their stance.

I NEVER got drugs and drinking, even in high school. Seems like a total waste of money to me and always has. If your life is so bad, you have to numb yourself out of your mind all the time to forget it, do something to make your life better. Drugs have no taste and anything with alcohol tastes terrible so the only reason to take them is blank your mind out. Thats my opinion anyway. ANY drugs or drinking is just plain and simple stupid. Need a 'cold one' get some iced tea.

quote Originally posted by twofatguys:

Hahaha....

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Once healthcare becomes a government dispensation that everyone pays for - it becomes everyone's business. Every decision you make that isn't healthy impacts everyone else.

You can expect rules and regulations to run your life. what you can eat, where you can go, what hobbies you can have. All your records will be reviewed on a constant basis ( grocery bills, credit card receipts, club memberships, your daily travels, even who your friends are ) and while they wont actively stop you from doing things that are not approved as we are a 'free society', you will have your share of the annual 'contribution' automatically increased to compensate.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: And your voting for Obama, what a laugh riot.

I'm not an Obama fan. The options of voting for someone else are severely limited though. It's the old "lesser of two evils" choice.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: And your voting for Obama, what a laugh riot.

quote Originally posted by dratts: I'm not an Obama fan.

No, no, he was insulting you!

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-04-2012).]

quote Originally posted by dratts: I'm not an Obama fan. The options of voting for someone else are severely limited though. It's the old "lesser of two evils" choice.

The lesser of two evils is still evil.
We really need to revamp our entire political system, those in office now are so out of touch with the majority of the US’s voters that they really don’t care about our problems just their own and increasing their own wealth.
We need to put every dam politician out and reelect new representatives; problem is you have to be rich in order to get elected in this country. That needs to change, we need the average guy on the street as our political representatives, problem with that is everyone has skeletons in their closet, and especially the average citizen and they don’t have the money or spin doctors to get elected.
Those in office now are mostly millionaires and don’t care what we want just increasing their own wealth. Except at election time.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: I have done many things in the past. I also decided it was a waste of time for me and stopped.. But id never tell another person they couldn't go home and do it as i feel they have that absolute right to do so if they want. Id never call them stupid for doing it as its their choice, any more than id call someone stupid for playing basketball or any other hobby i don't participate in. Note that while you may believe it, not all people take drugs/drink to 'numb their minds from reality'. And it sounds like you haven't had a good drink made for you as not all 'taste terrible'. Also throughout history alcohol ( beer mostly ) has been a staple food item due to lack of technology.

OK, give one one good arguement why someone does drugs illegally or drinks other than getting a buzz. Doing something to occupy time is not stupid if its what you like as in a sport or past time. Even if an alcoholic drink like say a strawberry daquri tastes ok, why not just have a strawberry soft drink that dont cost $6. There is nothing beneficial to doing drugs or alcohol except to get high or just get a buzz. I only drink a beer (one) at the local restaurant hangout because in the early evening, it costs 1/2 of what a pepsi or tea does. Most will charge you for a glass of water if thats all you order.

I tend towards a beer or Margarita with dinner (more than just once a week, not every single time).

It tastes good and I find it relaxing. Maybe you could say it's getting a "buzz". I wouldn't call it "mind numbing"--I think that would be going overboard in the choice of words to describe it.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: OK, give one one good arguement why someone does drugs illegally or drinks other than getting a buzz. Doing something to occupy time is not stupid if its what you like as in a sport or past time. Even if an alcoholic drink like say a strawberry daquri tastes ok, why not just have a strawberry soft drink that dont cost $6. There is nothing beneficial to doing drugs or alcohol except to get high or just get a buzz. I only drink a beer (one) at the local restaurant hangout because in the early evening, it costs 1/2 of what a pepsi or tea does. Most will charge you for a glass of water if thats all you order.

I often have a beer with dinner. I will not feel the beer at all... I just think it tastes good. There is nothing beneficial about a Pepsi, OMG why would you even consider drinking one????

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: OK, give one one good arguement why someone does drugs illegally or drinks other than getting a buzz. Doing something to occupy time is not stupid if its what you like as in a sport or past time. Even if an alcoholic drink like say a strawberry daquri tastes ok, why not just have a strawberry soft drink that dont cost $6. There is nothing beneficial to doing drugs or alcohol except to get high or just get a buzz. I only drink a beer (one) at the local restaurant hangout because in the early evening, it costs 1/2 of what a pepsi or tea does. Most will charge you for a glass of water if thats all you order.

Because I LIKE IT, and I WANT TO and thats the only reason I need...somebody elses understanding is just not relevent....
Roger....when you did your 1st solo, back before the F-4 and you were in a piper or a beech...WHY did you do that 1st cuircuit??..what was in your mind as a pilot when ya got that 1st chance to go it on your own...It wasnt a cheap drink that turns vets and pilots into homeless guys that once had skills but got old............

I have not been into a C152, rat, trap, pecie-of-crap. cessna taking it under wires with a camera in almost 15 years....

Next time some some blonde is a short skirt wants to wink about it...she can fly it herself and go masturbate.

Corvalis just joined Portland and San Francisco in banning single use plastic bags. I jokingly asked a clerk how the OSU students were going the keep their bicycle seats dry now that the bags most use will be illegal. He replied "shower caps". So now they will have to buy a replacement for previously a free item. Great idea. Plus the nickle charge for a paper bag. You are supposed to bring your own, which you previously purchased of course.

Sometimes life seems like a bad dream but I can't wake up.

edit: While in Germany several years ago, I noticed cigarette vending machine in various locations.
I thought: We used to have those too.

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 07-05-2012).]

Easy solution for your bad dream: we bought a set of reusable bags from Costco (two large bags and one large cooler bag for -gasp- five dollars. That was 3 years ago and they're still going strong (OK, I had to fix a tear in one with duct tape...).

quote Originally posted by spark1: Corvalis just joined Portland and San Francisco in banning single use plastic bags. I jokingly asked a clerk how the OSU students were going the keep their bicycle seats dry now that the bags most use will be illegal. He replied "shower caps". So now they will have to buy a replacement for previously a free item. Great idea. Plus the nickle charge for a paper bag. You are supposed to bring your own, which you previously purchased of course. Sometimes life seems like a bad dream but I can't wake up.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Easy solution for your bad dream: we bought a set of reusable bags from Costco (two large bags and one large cooler bag for -gasp- five dollars. That was 3 years ago and they're still going strong (OK, I had to fix a tear in one with duct tape...).

I think that solution is great for those who choose to use those. We have some of those too but the Costco items are so large that we usually don't use any kind of bag or box, just place the item behind our car's cargo mesh. My daughter has the nylon roll up bags with her all the time and uses those in stores. Again, that's fine for her but others don't wish to be compelled to do the same.

Most of the plastic bags are now biodegradable so whatever objection environmentalists had to them originally is old news. Now it's just an issue to make the "greens" feel good IMO.

Formula said it right. Now that we will all have insurance the people who live right will subsidize the 5% who think that they have a right to make their unhealthy choices and make up 50% of the health care costs. That's just an observation. Nothing we can do about it. Still when I see those choices being made and I have to pay for them it doesn't make me feel good towards those people.

quote Originally posted by FriendGregory: every night they drink 3 32oz beers and smoke a pack of cigarettes.

Hmmm, My math says:

3 32oz beers times 30 days per month (average) is 90 32oz beers at $1.99 (for a Budweiser 32) + tax = 8.75% in Palo Alto = $194.77

Add to that one pack of smokes per day or 30 packs per month = $5.19 per pack in California (tax included according to the website I found) = $155.70 + 194.77 = $350.47 per month he could be putting towards his rent instead.

Just saying

I agree!

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: The lesser of two evils is still evil. We really need to revamp our entire political system, those in office now are so out of touch with the majority of the US’s voters that they really don’t care about our problems just their own and increasing their own wealth. We need to put every dam politician out and reelect new representatives; problem is you have to be rich in order to get elected in this country. That needs to change, we need the average guy on the street as our political representatives, problem with that is everyone has skeletons in their closet, and especially the average citizen and they don’t have the money or spin doctors to get elected. Those in office now are mostly millionaires and don’t care what we want just increasing their own wealth. Except at election time. Steve

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Hmmm, My math says: 3 32oz beers times 30 days per month (average) is 90 32oz beers at $1.99 (for a Budweiser 32) + tax = 8.75% in Palo Alto = $194.77 Add to that one pack of smokes per day or 30 packs per month = $5.19 per pack in California (tax included according to the website I found) = $155.70 + 194.77 = $350.47 per month he could be putting towards his rent instead. Just saying

Thanks for doing the math. Part of my *itch was that the little girl could talk and and many times did not have breakfast so, I made a point of having cereal in my car and truck and asked a couple times when she looked like she was fussing about food and would ask, "Hey, have some milk?, I have a couple boxes of cereal if you want one." I would be told, "we are going to McDonalds later, she can wait". So, 2 kids under 3 and no milk in the house!

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Hmmm, My math says: 3 32oz beers times 30 days per month (average) is 90 32oz beers at $1.99 (for a Budweiser 32) + tax = 8.75% in Palo Alto = $194.77 Add to that one pack of smokes per day or 30 packs per month = $5.19 per pack in California (tax included according to the website I found) = $155.70 + 194.77 = $350.47 per month he could be putting towards his rent instead. Just saying

dang.....I wish I had the time & money to waste like this.
tho - I would guess with 3 32's your gonna burn more than a pack of smokes.......

they're exercising their rights to stimulate the economy, creating jobs in the tobacco and beer industries, as well as healthcare, insurance and eventually legal, penal and mortuary systems.

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 07-06-2012).]

quote Originally posted by lurker: they're exercising their rights to stimulate the economy, creating jobs in the tobacco and beer industries, as well as healthcare, insurance and eventually legal, penal and mortuary systems.

So they're job creators!!!!!

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Hmmm, My math says: 3 32oz beers times 30 days per month (average) is 90 32oz beers at $1.99 (for a Budweiser 32) + tax = 8.75% in Palo Alto = $194.77 Add to that one pack of smokes per day or 30 packs per month = $5.19 per pack in California (tax included according to the website I found) = $155.70 + 194.77 = $350.47 per month he could be putting towards his rent instead. Just saying

I would guess $350 is 1/3 - 1/2 of their rent. Also, I've noticed when smokers are drinking, they tend to smoke more. Assuming they don't just smoke when they drink,1 pack a day isn't likely enough of an estimate. Also, most people, unless they are alcoholics, don't drink alone. If they are alcoholics and are drinking alone 3 tallboys is not all that they are drinking in a night.. I love me some beer and can EASILY knock down a dozen of them in a night. I used to go have half a dozen beers at a local spots happy hour and maybe grab a bite with friends after work. After that, I would go home and have a few beers with my roommate and make dinner if I hadn't ate. In 5-6 hour span 12 beers wouldn't even cause a strong buzz.

Gregory, awful nice of you to carry cereal for the little kids. I don't think it is super healthy, but certainly much better than the McDonald's she was denying them. Are they still tenants? Can DHS do a wellness check or home inspection?

I know first hand boozing adds up. I know some people think it is dumb or a waste, but I used to really enjoy drinking with friends. You hangout and it dulls your senses a bit. Things are funnier. Inhibitions are lowered. People loosen up and can take their mind off of stressful things. I never used alcohol to "get away". I really enjoy my life. It was just something to make mundane activities more exciting. Do some housework? Float a river? Camp? Grill? Play CoD? Let's do it drunk.

After weighing the cost, having a spouse is MORE expensive than excessive drinking. Not sure it is a good trade.

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If God takes life, he's an Indian giver.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I remember when I got my pay raise 2 months ago. My salary went up $565.55 every pay period (every two weeks), and my take home pay increased by.... $6.03. 98.9% of my raise ended up going to the government. Granted, I moved which had a lot to do with it, but I was still pretty bummed.

While I agreed with most of your post, your marginal tax rate is not 98.9%. The highest bracket is below 40%.

quote Originally posted by masospaghetti: While I agreed with most of your post, your marginal tax rate is not 98.9%. The highest bracket is below 40%.

Right--it wasn't that I was taxed 99%. I got a raise, and moved. The raise put me in a new bracket, plus the move added a state tax (TX to CO). I also was taxed on the corporate housing my company pays for. In the end, I skewed the numbers to fit my agenda. I shouldn't have done that.

quote Originally posted by lurker: they're exercising their rights to stimulate the economy, creating jobs in the tobacco and beer industries, as well as healthcare, insurance and eventually legal, penal and mortuary systems.

heh

and bank robbers keep cops in business.

Exactly what does me flying have to do with you liking to drink ? Im not saying you cant drink if you want, thats your choice. Im just saying theres absolutely no benefit to it other than getting light headed (how much depends on how many). Some people are affected by just one beer enough to be charged with a DUI. Some people drink piss too. And btw, most people dont consider any Cessna a POS. Its been the most widely sold aircraft in the world for 60 years. Myself, I consider Piper the worst. Ive flown almost all of them too. We like to say Piper aircraft are for those pilots without any landing skills because of the way they float down over the runway. You cant mess up, when your tired of floating, just pull the throttle and it falls the last foot or so. You NEVER see any Pipers (Cub is the one exception because its also high winged like a Cessna) used by bush pilots because they cant do anything a bush pilot needs it to do.

from bushplanes.com:

"A typical bush plane will have a high wing (wing on top of the fuselage) and have conventional landing gear (tail draggers). Popular examples of planes used in the bush are the Piper Super Cub, Cessna 180 and 185, and the DeHavilland Beaver—all of which have high wings and conventional landing gear. Cessna 206s and Piper Cherokees are also used in the bush, but are not as favored by bush flying purists. Having the wings on top allows airplanes to land in small strips that have become overgrown with vegetation. Conventional landing gear is favored because of its ruggedness and the aeronautic ability it allows an airplane to become airborne quicker than an aircraft equipped with a tricycle landing gear. Becoming airborne quickly can be a great asset."

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 07-06-2012).]

Newest update on the address.
The time the Sheriff had the appointment to complete the eviction, the evictee texted one of the other people I am working with that the Sheriff was on the way. Weird, he should not have known. I got a call a couple days later from the mother of the kid that went to jail wanting to upgrade from a studio...No I was not interested, no matter how hot she is. How did she know the place was vacant?
The newest people are helping me repair the walls, and I replaced the damaged doors. I am getting my rents on time.
These guys smoke and drink but, it is clear that it is not everyday, and they can afford it because they are regularly employed.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: heh and bank robbers keep cops in business.

I've known several cops that realize and admit that all the crime we see every day is job security.. so in a way, you are absolutely correct. Don't forget court costs, lawyer fees and probation fees/ fines for those found guilty.. there's a whole system of employment linked to what the "bad guys" do.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison:[/B] OK, give one one good arguement why someone does drugs illegally or drinks other than getting a buzz. Doing something to occupy time is not stupid if its what you like as in a sport or past time. Even if an alcoholic drink like say a strawberry daquri tastes ok, why not just have a strawberry soft drink that dont cost $6. There is nothing beneficial to doing drugs or alcohol except to get high or just get a buzz. I only drink a beer (one) at the local restaurant hangout because in the early evening, it costs 1/2 of what a pepsi or tea does. Most will charge you for a glass of water if thats all you order.

I drink whiskey/bourbon regularly because I love the taste of it. I haven't been drunk or even had a buzz from it in so long I can't remember. I just like the taste, their is nothing non alcoholic that even comes close.

~Tyler

[This message has been edited by GT-X (edited 08-08-2012).]