quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: I eat healthy for around 60 bucks a week. This last week I have had nothing but chineese takeout so sometimes I will stray but 9 times out of 10 its all decent food for little money. Hell, some blackened mahi mahi with some brown rice and some sort of veggie will set you back less than 10 bucks. For less than a hours pay you can make a healthy meal with leftovers. Tuna fish sammich, cheap as hell and if you dont load it up with processed garbage you're good to go. A bag of lettuce can be had for next to nothing, once again, dont load it with processed garbage and guess what, a cheap dinner. There is PLENTY to eat thats not bad for you on the cheap. Today I broke my bender on chineese food and cooked at home again, I made a chicken breast, with brown rice and a white wine sauce, less than 4 bucks.

It's all relative. For you, cheap is $4 for a meal for one. In Khw's example, that same $4 would be for six meals, not one.
It's not hard to eat for $5 a meal - per person. Make that a family of 6, and now you're looking at $30 per meal, or $210 a week. That's a big chunk of change if you don't have much coming in and it only gets your family 1 meal a day.

I feed my self, never though about feeding a family. I can see both sides of the argument with this.

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: I feed my self, never though about feeding a family. I can see both sides of the argument with this.

The easiest way to save money is to stay single.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I would be SHOCKED if they were Democrats...

Where the hell did this come from? He is essentially calling the people that live in his rental poor white trash. Is this what you associate with the Republican party? You are pretty right leaning? Are you poor white trash?

quote Originally posted by theBDub: The cheaper your food is, the worse it is for you. Usually. Not saying they need to eat it all, just giving that perspective if you haven't already thought of that.

I agree with you Brennan (or is it Brandon as Mike thinks) I used to work the grocery industry. We were a small store, 35,000sqft only 10-20million revenue a year. We often bought out all of our supplies on close-out/dated items. We would buy them for pennies and unload them for extremely cheap. Bag salads and produce were common, but not regularly enough to support a family. They would only last another day or two past the purchase. No way you could plan for a week off these sales. We cut and ground our own meat there, so you could get decent deals, but it was mostly just red meats. Boneless skinless chicken would go down to $1.49/lb which was a good time to load up. People on a budget can't just load up. It is no big deal for me to drop $50 on a freezer full of chicken, but that isn't an option for "poor" people. Ground beef would be cheap often, but it was 73/27. We all know bunches of red meat is supposedly bad. 73% cooks down a LOT. Has a bunch of fat. Combines with bad things for you. Burgers have all the bread. Tacos are greasy and have a bunch of starch from the tortillas. Meat loaf cooks in it's own fat. Hamburger helper is brutally unhealthy.
Fresh fish is good for you, if you aren't near water, forget about it. Chicken can be bought cheap sometimes, but most people are frying. I grill my boneless breast or bake them. I NEVER buy the whole fryers or the legs and thighs. They are the cheapest though, and when people buy them, they get fried.
Most "poor" people trying to make it have a lack of time and money. Any time they have needs to be spent working or finding more work. If they aren't spending all their free time doing those things, why would they spend it carefully selecting and preparing healthy meals. Healthy food does take longer. Going to McDonald's is now cheap and FAST.

I guess I too am one of those snide jerks who think poor people are poor for a reason, in this county. I know Brad takes offense to that, but it is true for his case too. He says their isn't adequate work in his area, which I believe, but can't/won't relocate because of his wife. I understand the decision he makes, but it is through his own doing. I've always worked hard, since before I was 16 and have subsequently not spent much of my adult life struggling. We were poor when I was a child though.


On to the tenant thing. Do you really think you are that great of a landlord? People tell others with "power" all the time nice things. They do it to build trust and friendship so they will do them favors later. Do you own the homes? If not, who cares if the tenants like you? You don't work for them. You work for the home owner. I would be pissed as **** if you rented my homes to this kind of trash. Not to mention you negatively affect the property values and the other home owners likely hate you too. The best landlord I've had, when something would go wrong, I would call him. He would ask if I wanted to do the work or if I knew anyone in that field. I would have a plumber friend or electrician or whatever come over and fix the issue. Send a receipt with the next rent check, less the receipt. AWESOME arrangement. I was happy. His job was easy. The homeowner suffered no property damage. Keep tooting your horn, but if you don't own the homes, I would fire you. If you do own the homes, you have no business sense. You clearly aren't doing enough background checks. You are going out of your way to help people. Which is fine, but don't mix it with your business. You are letting your properties get destroyed. You are having to dump your time and money to get them up to snuff between renters. If you are renting low income houses and then a certain level of damage is to be expected. I personally would be charging them for repairs that they caused due to negligence or physically damaging. I mean, I would do that regardless, but I would be much more firm in lower income situations. People need to take care of others property and be held responsible for messing things up.

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: snip

And that's another equation that people seem to forget when talking about food being affordable.

The healthy stuff usually only "keeps" a few days before it has to be ate. Not everyone lives within a few minutes of the local grocery.

As I pointed out in my juicing thread, the vegetables were affordable, but because I couldn't get a weeks supply or more at a time it was not affordable. The fuel to go back and forth to the store was crippling.

By the way, me getting a weeks supply of cucumbers, and spinach empties our local groceries supply for up to 4 days. If I want some items (like Kale) I have to drive 20 minutes. Other things are an hour drive away (apparently this includes good oranges, this is the second bag in a row with 3+ bad ones in it.)

Brad

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: Why is it that every-single-time an individual hits an unexpected financial crunch, the very 1st thing the self-rightous do is point at tobacco and alcohol and scream "If you didnt smoke/drink you would have had the money" ...Ya never hear them crying about or pointing at R/C hobbies, shooting hobbies, electronic hobbies or any of the other myriad of things money gets spent on.......but they sure love pointing at the smokes and beer...

I think about those. I mean, I know those are all hobbies you have, but I don't see you starting threads talking about how destitute you are, Mike. Obviously, if buying food is an issue, you need to consider stopping all hobbies. Drinking and smoking are two expensive past times where you have nothing to show. At least with the others you can possibly sell them and get some money back. I think anyone receiving any government assistance should be severely limited in what the can do, eat and own. Clearly they aren't great at making their own decisions. Time to let someone else make better ones for you. Don't like it? Don't get assistance.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: It's all relative. For you, cheap is $4 for a meal for one. In Khw's example, that same $4 would be for six meals, not one. It's not hard to eat for $5 a meal - per person. Make that a family of 6, and now you're looking at $30 per meal, or $210 a week. That's a big chunk of change if you don't have much coming in and it only gets your family 1 meal a day.

What family only eats 1 meal a day? I doubt seriously most families have that to spend a week for groceries. I realize Kris is just buying groceries for himself, but budgeting meals for a large family is pricey. Healthy ones is almost impossible. On the converse a hot and ready pizza from Little Ceaser's is only $3.99 on Monday. Depending on family demographics 2 can feed everyone and all you have to do is pick it up on your way home.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The easiest way to save money is to stay single.

Very, very true. I have been reading a website about reasons to not get married. If I were single, my disposable income would likely double. Going out to eat is cheap for a single guy. I, like most men, will consume the same thing every day for a week. Buying 10lbs of ground beef is a great option. A burger every night is fast and cheap. Most single men can be fairly active and burning off the calories is easy. $2.00 meals are common place. Mix a wife and kids into the equation and things get expensive fast.

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: Why is it that every-single-time an individual hits an unexpected financial crunch, the very 1st thing the self-rightous do is point at tobacco and alcohol and scream "If you didnt smoke/drink you would have had the money" ...Ya never hear them crying about or pointing at R/C hobbies, shooting hobbies, electronic hobbies or any of the other myriad of things money gets spent on.......but they sure love pointing at the smokes and beer...

Ditto

And for those who say it is THEIR moneys those on any type of assistance get. The amount that you pay is so minor per person I bet it is less than one dollar per person on all types of assistance.

So get over it.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Ditto And for those who say it is THEIR moneys those on any type of assistance get. The amount that you pay is so minor per person I bet it is less than one dollar per person on all types of assistance. So get over it. Steve

I don't care how much it is per person that they receive. I have to do without things that I want to pay taxes for people who aren't willing to do the same. I don't think I should be paying 5 figure taxes each year. Regardless of whether someone can "afford it" they worked for the money and should get to keep it. People can get a job or not, I could care less. I just don't feel I should be forced to help anyone. I am all for charity and donations. What the government does is fleecing and extortion.

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: I don't care how much it is per person that they receive. I have to do without things that I want to pay taxes for people who aren't willing to do the same. I don't think I should be paying 5 figure taxes each year. Regardless of whether someone can "afford it" they worked for the money and should get to keep it. People can get a job or not, I could care less. I just don't feel I should be forced to help anyone. I am all for charity and donations. What the government does is fleecing and extortion.

This!


Screw this thread, im friggen hungry now.

[This message has been edited by 87antuzzi (edited 07-03-2012).]

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: In the US especially, the poor are poor because of choices they made, or didn't make. Anyone on here (not talking about disabled obviously) can work, and become well off, or even wealthy if they wish. The limits are all on the person.

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: I guess I too am one of those snide jerks who think poor people are poor for a reason, in this county.

From what I recently read, that's not actually true anymore. It used to be, but isn't nowadays.

http://www.businessinsider....is-now-a-myth-2012-6



http://economix.blogs.nytim...n-your-parents-were/



We've had this discussion before in another thread and a few chimed in with their personal rags-to-riches stories. While I'm very happy for them, it seems much less likely these days than how it used to be.

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: I don't care how much it is per person that they receive. I have to do without things that I want to pay taxes for people who aren't willing to do the same. I don't think I should be paying 5 figure taxes each year. Regardless of whether someone can "afford it" they worked for the money and should get to keep it. People can get a job or not, I could care less. I just don't feel I should be forced to help anyone. I am all for charity and donations. What the government does is fleecing and extortion.

Ooh nice one, you don’t care about anyone else but yourself, glad to hear that and how much you pay in taxes, you have a 5 figure taxes bill at the end of the year. So you are making what a 6 figure income, give it a break. Here is hoping you never have something happen to you that you would need assistance of any kind because I for one will just copy and paste this post for you to read.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Ooh nice one, you don’t care about anyone else but yourself, glad to hear that and how much you pay in taxes, you have a 5 figure taxes bill at the end of the year. So you are making what a 6 figure income, give it a break. Here is hoping you never have something happen to you that you would need assistance of any kind because I for one will just copy and paste this post for you to read. Steve

Firstly, he said he's all for helping people. That's what people for large social programs don't understand. I have given my time and money to plenty of charities, but it's hard to give what little I get back from the government.

Right now, I take home about 63% of my paycheck. That means that over a third of all of my work is working for the government. I would think having an opinion on what is done with that money would be acceptable.

EDIT: I remember when I got my pay raise 2 months ago. My salary went up $565.55 every pay period (every two weeks), and my take home pay increased by.... $6.03. 98.9% of my raise ended up going to the government. Granted, I moved which had a lot to do with it, but I was still pretty bummed.

[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 07-03-2012).]

Probably time for me to leave this thread so you guys can hate the poor as you see fit.

I'm just going to end up pissed it seems. Probably my diet, it usually puts me in a bad mood for a few days, no idea why.

Have fun with the hate fest though.

Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Probably time for me to leave this thread so you guys can hate the poor as you see fit. I'm just going to end up pissed it seems. Probably my diet, it usually puts me in a bad mood for a few days, no idea why. Have fun with the hate fest though. Brad

I hope you didn't read my post as hate. I have no hate for the poor, at all. I don't think the government helps the poor effectively, and would much rather have myself and charities help out the needy.

It'd be kinda hard for me to hate the poor. When my mom was pregnant with me, they were homeless for awhile.

I hate this thread

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Firstly, he said he's all for helping people. That's what people for large social programs don't understand. I have given my time and money to plenty of charities, but it's hard to give what little I get back from the government. Right now, I take home about 63% of my paycheck. That means that over a third of all of my work is working for the government. I would think having an opinion on what is done with that money would be acceptable. EDIT: I remember when I got my pay raise 2 months ago. My salary went up $565.55 every pay period (every two weeks), and my take home pay increased by.... $6.03. 98.9% of my raise ended up going to the government. Granted, I moved which had a lot to do with it, but I was still pretty bummed.

So you pay taxes, everyone does and at the end of the year you get something back right?

Thing is it is the people who never had hard times that talk like him. I worked for 40 years and donated not only money every week out of my paycheck for the needy. But also volunteered doing all sorts of things. Like we used to do the Maine Special Olympics equestrian team with our own horses, time and money free of charge to anyone who wanted to learn to ride. Then drove trailer in tow with our own horses to the Olympics for the kids at our own expense unlike some others who charged those disabled kids for their lessons, travel and anything else they could screw them out of.

Traveled hundreds of mile picking up rescue dogs in other states.

Some people talk about how they, how did he put it,

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: I am all for charity and donations. What the government does is fleecing and extortion.

So he thinks he is being fleeced. So he doesn’t need police protection, trash pickup, electricity, power, gas or any of the other things that his mine and your tax dollars pay for.
Some people don’t see the big picture all they see is their own little patch of earth and that is all they care about is themselves.


Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: So he thinks he is being fleeced. So he doesn’t need police protection, trash pickup, electricity, power, gas or any of the other things that his mine and your tax dollars pay for. Some people don’t see the big picture all they see is their own little patch of earth and that is all they care about is themselves. Steve

Yes, I get something back because my job is seasonal, so they take out more than they're supposed to. But after I graduate, I won't be getting much of anything back. That percentage will be final in a year from now.

EDIT: Sorry, getting sensitive. I gotta get back to work anyway.

[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 07-03-2012).]

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I would be SHOCKED if they were Democrats...

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: Where the hell did this come from? He is essentially calling the people that live in his rental poor white trash. Is this what you associate with the Republican party? You are pretty right leaning? Are you poor white trash?

SARCASM man... of COURSE they're Democrats!

For what it's worth though... I may have hob-nobbed in prep school with some fancy types... but I happily call myself a Redneck / White Trash.

I love TransAms, Fieros, and at one time, I had 9 cars and a golf cart (8 of them ran). There's nothing I like better than stuffing my face at the local diner at 6:30am before heading out with my other Pennocks friends on here (who don't post ever) and head to U-Pull-It in my cut-off jean shorts, with my back-pack of tools, and pulling parts off of junkyard cars.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: It's all relative. For you, cheap is $4 for a meal for one. In Khw's example, that same $4 would be for six meals, not one. It's not hard to eat for $5 a meal - per person. Make that a family of 6, and now you're looking at $30 per meal, or $210 a week. That's a big chunk of change if you don't have much coming in and it only gets your family 1 meal a day.

Yeah, I've never really understood the food stamp program. The amount of money that some of these families get are outrageous. A family of three (husband / wife / child) will quite often get over $200 a week for groceries. I'm not doing too badly, but our budget is tight... we make that last over the period of a month... and we make sure my daughter gets the superior food... the freshest vegetables, etc. I survive on protein powder, and the occasional sandwich in order to cut costs.

Why, when I was younger, after the tech bubble burst, I didn't have a lot of money and usually survived on a single box of Mac n Cheese, air popped popcorn, a glass of milk, and a can of tuna... the entire day, I'd probably maybe spend $2 bucks. Why do people on food stamps get obscene budgets for food, when I have to pinch pennies to help pay for it? This is what INFURIATES me. We absolutely need to seriously re-work the food stamp program. People need to learn to live more responsibly... and not under my dime.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 07-03-2012).]

I see it as the fact I get nailed to the wall on taxes, I worked for that money, I earned it, why in the hell should some random person get ANY of it? Roads, army, police or whatever, yeah take it, I like having that around but a part of my paycheck going to the fat chick in the scooter at walmart? **** NO! When ever I open my pay stub I get the same bitter feeling when I look at how much in taxes were with held. However, if the working stiff falls on some hard times then by all means, kick a dog a bone, but for the people who have never put **** into it, let em' starve.

Im talking about the people who abuse the crap out of it. I realize my post is nothing but contradiction.

[This message has been edited by 87antuzzi (edited 07-03-2012).]

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Yes, I get something back because my job is seasonal, so they take out more than they're supposed to. But after I graduate, I won't be getting much of anything back. That percentage will be final in a year from now. EDIT: Sorry, getting sensitive. I gotta get back to work anyway.

You need to learn how to set your weekly taxes up so that when you are full time you get money back every year, I always did.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: You need to learn how to set your weekly taxes up so that when you are full time you get money back every year, I always did. Steve

Yeah, I tried to figure that out, but didn't understand it all. Not a huge deal since this is my last year being seasonal.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Right now, I take home about 63% of my paycheck. That means that over a third of all of my work is working for the government. I would think having an opinion on what is done with that money would be acceptable.

Living in the greatest country on Earth ain't free.
We gotta' pay membership dues.
Helping the poor is part of what makes this country great.
Taxes is how that gets done, becouse lets face it, if it was "voluntary", yeah, right.

I have posed this question many times, and all I got back was tapdancing; If taxes were voluntary, would you pay them?
Al I ever heard was "Yes, if I could choose where they went and how they were spent."

Left to our own choosing, I wonder what would get left out?

I'm not convinced that Pennocks forum members who seemingly have all the answers to this countries problems are smarter then the hundreds of thousands of people that have figured all these things out over the course of hundreds of years.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-03-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Living in the greatest country on Earth ain't free. We gotta' pay membership dues. Helping the poor is part of what makes this country great. Taxes is how that gets done, becouse lets face it, if it was "voluntary", yeah, right. I have posed this question many times, and all I got back was tapdancing; If taxes were voluntary, would you pay them? Al I ever heard was "Yes, if I could choose where they went and how they were spent." Left to our own choosing, I wonder what would get left out? I'm not convinced that Pennocks forum members who seemingly have all the answers to this countries problems are smarter then the hundreds of thousands of people that have figured all these things out over the course of hundreds of years.

In my neighborhood in South Florida, the home owners association fees are voluntary. There is NO PENALTY for not paying it. You still can participate in all the things that they do every year... the Halloween neighborhood party where they decorate one of our parks and have a hay ride... the Thanksgiving party (they also decorate the park) and the Christmas / Hannuka party where they have a Santa clause, and stuff...

I voluntarily pay it. I'm not always on time (doesn't matter), once I even paid a year late, and just wrote a check for that year and the current year... but I pay it.

Charity is voluntary (I mean, when you're not counting government welfare) and I pay it... I pay a lot of it.

And for that matter... it's a fact that conservatives and Republicans give more in charity than Democrats do... BY FAR...

One poll: http://www.nytimes.com/2008...inion/21kristof.html shows that Republicans give 30% more in donations than Liberals do. Google did a survey that found that number to be as high as 50% more was donated by conservatives than liberals.

So your comment about Texas was VERY misplaced, and innacurate.


Here's an article where the blogger scientifically breaks it down by state in an attempt to disprove it, and decides to show the results anyway, even though it actually proved correct.

http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/...licans-or-democrats/

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: So your comment about Texas was VERY misplaced, and innacurate.

Where did I mention Texas?

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Where did I mention Texas?

Hahaha... **** ...

I misread what you said...

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Helping the poor is part of what makes this country great. Taxes is how that gets done, becouse lets face it, if it was "voluntary", yeah, right.

I thought you were sarcastically saying that Texas is how that gets done... but you said Taxes...

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I thought you were sarcastically saying that Texas is how that gets done... but you said Taxes...

Heh!
"Texas get's er' done!

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Ooh nice one, you don’t care about anyone else but yourself, glad to hear that and how much you pay in taxes, you have a 5 figure taxes bill at the end of the year. So you are making what a 6 figure income, give it a break. Here is hoping you never have something happen to you that you would need assistance of any kind because I for one will just copy and paste this post for you to read. Steve

Write it down. Copy it. Paste it. Email it to me. Text it to me. Send it certified mail or in smoke signals.

1. You feel so smug getting to tell someone I told you so? Classy.
2. I take appropriate precautions to plan against such thing. Meaning I have insurance. I have health, car, home, life and dental insurance. I've never used 1 of these policies personally, yet I've paid into almost all of them since I was 16. PLENTY of money, essentially wasted, but I am covered if anything does happen. This is called personal responsibility.
3. You don't have to make 6 figures to have a $10,000+ tax burden per year. Kris said he pays $250 a week in taxes. No of us know his exact income, but I am betting it is a far cry from $100,000 a year. Yet he is paying $13,000+ a year in taxes
4. You are tying to put words into my mouth. "Ooh nice one, you don’t care about anyone else but yourself" I never said that, you inferred it from my post. INCORRECTLY. I believe what I said was "I am all for charity and donations. What the government does is fleecing and extortion.".
5. All I am saying, is I believe in self-reliance. Take away EVERYONE'S safety net and they will make more cautious decisions...and if they don't they do deserve to fail. I am not trying to cut anyone a raw deal here. Everyone gets nothing free. Everyone takes care of themselves. Everyone who WANTS to help someone struggling out, should have the free-will take make that decision on their own.
6. "glad to hear that and how much you pay in taxes" You are glad that I pay that much in taxes? Is this jealousy for doing well? Spite because no one should have more than you? Is is specific to me, because you just don't like me or agree with me?
7. I don't want anyone to have to pay more in taxes. I want everyone to pair "their fair share". I don't think this is determined by ability. Ideally everyone would pay the exact same amount and only be required to pay for services that they use. This isn't really possible, so I think the next "fairest" way is for everyone to pay the same %. If you can't live off of the % that you have left, you need to either find a better paying job, cut your expenses, or move to a different country that is more to your liking.

Throughout most of this post, you is the generic you...Except for the parts where you are actually happy about bad things happening or wanting things to get worse for me. That is just mean man. I don't dislike you or Melanie and certainly wouldn't want something bad to happen to you. Even the people I don't like, I wouldn't want something bad to happen to and likely would help them out if it was feasible. I thought you leaned a bit more to the right, not sure why you want others to shoulder someone's burden. Bad things happen to people. It sucks. Plan better. Life isn't fair. If it were, we wouldn't even need these discussions.

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: What family only eats 1 meal a day?

Hopefully not many. My point was that money adds up fast, and that was ONLY 1 meal a day. I pointed that out to underscore how even that much isn't adequate. I should have spelled that out more clearly.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Hopefully not many. My point was that money adds up fast, and that was ONLY 1 meal a day. I pointed that out to underscore how even that much isn't adequate. I should have spelled that out more clearly.

I knew what you meant. My original post had a in there. I accidentally deleted some of it though and had to retype a portion.

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: I think about those. I mean, I know those are all hobbies you have, but I don't see you starting threads talking about how destitute you are, Mike. Obviously, if buying food is an issue, you need to consider stopping all hobbies. Drinking and smoking are two expensive past times where you have nothing to show. At least with the others you can possibly sell them and get some money back. I think anyone receiving any government assistance should be severely limited in what the can do, eat and own. Clearly they aren't great at making their own decisions. Time to let someone else make better ones for you. Don't like it? Don't get assistance.

I am so destitute that I live in the country in a gated property with a fireplace in the living room AND bedroom and drive a 3-year-old Mini ....actually/ seriously--yeh, since around December things have been a lot tighter than I like, and I am not living the lifestyle I am used to but I still manage to take home a lot more than others in the Toronto area. I am one of those who got caught pants-down with the expensive house lease, expensive blackberry, not-cheap-to-insure-or-fix Mini on payments and then lost 1/3rd of my income. As leases/ contracts expire and not get renewed and/or the new job tosses in the perks that I used to have things will even out to the new income level, and as this luxury place is replaced with a more functional house with a garage/shop and I can earn side income in again------

but THAT aint the point. I have been a smoker for about 35 years and an on-and-off drinker for 20 and EVERY SINGLE TIME I am 20 bucks short for *whatever* I want to pick up or an unexpected breakdown ect (which happens to us all, a new (**insert gizmodo here**) goes on sale for 75% off and we are short that week, or something lets go in the car at the worst time), the ONLY thing I ever hear about is the smokes and the drink. That goes for family, friends, colleagues--the entire human race. I don't think I have EVER heard "well, if you hadn't bought that new car stereo last week you wouldn't be short"--but I have heard it so often about smokes and beer that my automatic response is STFU ! The point was/is that people love to pick on and point at the "vices"--no matter how small. Its nothing but another form of anti-smoking/ anti-drinking social engineering. Back when I smoked the occasional cigar, I liked backwoods and people LOVED to point at them when the "short this week" happened--over 6 bucks a week (what a pack cost then)--6 bucks-- and it was the cause of financial ruin, Hiroshima, WW1, the shooting of Reagan, solar eclipses, earthquakes and volcanoes--if only I hadn't spent that 6 bucks all would have been right with the world. (Ignoring the $200 I spent on **insert whatever here**)

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: I didn't read this post before I made my other one. Are you wanting us to pat you on the back for your charity work? Did you get a sense of accomplishment for helping these people? If so you did get something out it, while not tangible it is still something. You seem to want to speak a lot for me. I do get the big picture. To clarify I pay for gas, water, electric, and sanitation in my community. Our local sales tax pay for our fire and police. I also assume our roads? I understand that taxes are a necessary evil for our society. I am grateful to live here. I don't mind paying for military and most other expenses. I don't believe that charity and financial aide should be one of the things our government forces upon me. This means foreign aide as well as domestic. I think poverty problems should be addressed an solved within a community, family or friends. EDIT. I do not receive tax refunds. I did get $2000 back, but it was likely due to me over paying all year long to make sure I wouldn't owe. I set to overpay about $100 a pay period.

Sure there are things wrong with the system; people on welfare sometimes are abusing the system. Just like some people abuse every other system. But there are also those who need that to survive. I love how, not sure if it was you, say just get another job. There are no fkn jobs, even less for those with little education but not everyone is built to go to college. I couldn’t stand it myself; all I saw was how to screw the other guy over.

Some do not abuse the system, most don’t but when you need it, it is nice to have it there. Biatch all you want most on it do NEED it.

You yourself feel that every penny you earn you deserve, you do just like I and everyone else does. But when someone falls on hard time you are biatching that they don’t deserve it because they smoke or drink. Not true. Habits like those can be hard to quit, just ask anyone here who smokes and has tried to quit.

As far as throwing that in your face when and if you hit hard times, and believe me it can happen to you or anyone. It happened to me and I thought I was prepared, had money put away money in a 401K and it got used up paying medical expenses from my stroke alone, then I had to have a quadruple bypass. I paid into this system for 40 years already, just how long have you.

I earned my disability by paying into the system for 40 years, just how long have you been paying?
Now those fat lazy basterds that never did anything don’t but that doesn’t mean the system is wrong. You think the economy is bad now, take all those people on disability and welfare off that and you are going to see just how bad it is. There will be riots. And that ain’t far away given the inequity of our pay scales in this country and most others.

Why should a banker who is doing nothing but screwing over everyone he meets get what he is paid?
Why should some college kid just out of college get 3 times what someone who has been do his job for years get paid more than them. We need to revamp the entire system, not just the welfare system.
You don’t like it Vote to change it or move to a country that has a better tax system, please. You have the money, from what you have posted, hey move to Cuba or Russia or Afghanistan, or Spain.

Think you will do better, please STFU and move.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: hmpf....all the homeless I know are skin/bones....... and no car either. I suppose they are buying Mercedes & Fur Coats with food stamps too, huh? ...... such BS.

I have homeless people living in the woods behind me and used to camp in the now closed car wash. There are fat and skinny ones. Just poor people who dont have jobs use the assistance they get as a check to buy a new ride rather than pay rent or utilities. Thats more affordable because they get 2 or 3 families in one apartment. It takes months to evict them, and they just move into another apartment and do the same thing. The food stamps they sell to buy stuff they wont buy like cigs and beer. I had a phone call from a guy when I advertised some wheels on craigslist offer to trade me food stamps for them.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Yeah I think living in Utah limits your choices.

Actually at that time we were living in Southern California.

While we are by no means "well off" things have been alot better for us since we moved to Utah.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-03-2012).]

I'm always being called a bleeding heart liberal on here because of my concern for the less fortunate. I consider myself a moderate. Cigarettes and booze are not a positive thing and they are not a necessity. I agree with those people who have made sacrifices in order to get where they are and are upset with having to support the bad choices of others. If you want to smoke and booze and you can afford it and the repercussions that go with killing your body slowly, go for it. Just don't expect me to give up things I have worked for so that you can indulge your poor choices. I resent being forced to pay for unnecessary things that will cause health problems that I will also have to assist in paying for. I usd to smoke and I used to drink. I didn't ask for assistance in the rest of my life so that I could afford to make that choice. This thread seems to be mostly about people who are defending their bad choices and their right to do so. I think that's sad. How about instead trying to improve your life.