quote Originally posted by InTheLead: Don't do it man.. don't kill yourself on Christmas it's not worth it.

A little late. It's Thursday---Christmas was last Saturday.


Here ya go Jim--get yourself a little piece of Texas.
Go big--or stay home.
Just $2500 too.


And, you need to look into your state laws and statutes to see if you have one of these:

Castle Doctrine. This is the original, back in 2007. It has since been amended to extend to property such as yards, land, outbuildings and the vehicle you are in. Yep, in Texas, your Fiero IS considered part of your castle.
If Va has no castle law, you're sol.

"Residents lawfully occupying a dwelling may shoot a person who "unlawfully, and with force, enters or attempts to enter the dwelling", or who removes or attempts to remove someone from that dwelling, or who commits or attempts to commit a "qualifying" felony such as burglary, arson, rape, aggravated assault, robbery or murder. In addition, a shooter who has a legal right to be wherever he/she is at the time of a defensive shooting has no "duty to retreat" before being justified in shooting; the "trier of fact" may not consider whether the person retreated when deciding whether the person was justified in shooting."

You also will need to know, if you can carry--without a permit, in your vehicle--and whether it needs to be concealed or not. In Texas, you may (without a permit) carry a loaded handgun while walking to your vehicle, while in your vehicle and while going from vehicle to home or YOUR business, as long as it is concealed from public view.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Maybe I missed it. Jim--have you ever owned and used a handgun--by 'used', I mean firdd one enough to have a preference, and more importantly, a "feel" for one? If the answer is 'no', then you should start going to a range, and finding a way to try as many different weapons as you can before plopping down your $ on one based just from what you get handling it in a gunshop. While it is certainly possible to get used to "anything", and even proficient with it, there is also nothing worse than buying one, getting it home and after a hundred rounds, realize you absolutely hate the thing. It's a whole lot easier when the weapon fits YOU, instead of you having to adapt to fit IT. I don't currently own a handgun but i have had several in the past, and I personally like the Colt 1911, but I learned to use one early in life. And for me, like my automobiles, if I am going to plop down serious money for a weapon, the #1 priority is that it HAS to be a USA brand. (I do own an SKS, but it was a gift from my brother.)

You did miss it. I'm a total newb. I have only fired rifles while hunting, and that is totally different. I plan on using the next year doing exactly what you say. Going to the range, sampling a lot of guns, and taking some classes. I'm not rushing into this. It is something I have thought about for awhile, and am now going to take action. I also read your, "defend your home", thread, https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/081334.html and you made some points I have thought about. I live in a small house, and if I were to shoot an intruder, I better make sure I aim correctly. In any direction, the backdrop to an intruder, could be a loved ones room. We have discussed the stay put policy, but I like the idea of hitting the floor in the back of a closet also. Thanks for the good tips. I'll have to ignore the one about the $2500 gun though.

Jim

[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 12-30-2010).]

My suggestion for a begginer is a revolver, any revolver, but for self defense a .38 special is a good choice.
I gave my 15 year old daughter a single action Heritage .22lr for Christmas, it should be a good platform for her to learn basic gun safety and handleing. Her mother was concerned but she assured her mother she had carefully read the Gun safety literature that came with the Red Rider I got her about 6 years ago.

If you have kids, take them to the range, let them fire a gun. It has been my experience that kids that actually get some experience in proper handling and actually see what a gun is capable of are less likely to be careless with a firearm. TV, video games, and movies paint a very unrealistic picture of guns, the reality is much louder! Just the noise alone was enough to keep some very young kids I've seen from wanting to touch a gun.

------------------
Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.

Did I mention my oldest daughter turned 16 yesterday? Not that has anything to do with me getting a hand gun. Happy Birthday sweetie.

Jim

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Unfortunately we do not have the Caslte Doctrine in effect here. It was passed by the State house, and shot done by the State Senate. Care to guess which party rules which body? Our State elections are this coming year (2011) Time to do some house State Senate cleaning. Jim

Fixed.
(and ya need to know if your current governor will sign the bill once it is passed by both houses.)
(I've posted Texas' castle doctrine text and it's amendments in the planning thread.)

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Fixed. (and ya need to know if your current governor will sign the bill once it is passed by both houses.) (I've posted Texas' castle doctrine text and it's amendments in the planning thread.)

Correction noted. Our current Governor (McDonnell) would sign it in a heartbeat and is lobbying for it. We need to get him the proper support. He has 5 more years, unless he runs for President, so we need to change the State Senate in 2011.

Jim

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Maybe I missed it. Jim--have you ever owned and used a handgun--by 'used', I mean firdd one enough to have a preference, and more importantly, a "feel" for one? If the answer is 'no', then you should start going to a range, and finding a way to try as many different weapons as you can before plopping down your $ on one based just from what you get handling it in a gunshop. While it is certainly possible to get used to "anything", and even proficient with it, there is also nothing worse than buying one, getting it home and after a hundred rounds, realize you absolutely hate the thing. It's a whole lot easier when the weapon fits YOU, instead of you having to adapt to fit IT. I don't currently own a handgun but i have had several in the past, and I personally like the Colt 1911, but I learned to use one early in life. And for me, like my automobiles, if I am going to plop down serious money for a weapon, the #1 priority is that it HAS to be a USA brand. (I do own an SKS, but it was a gift from my brother.)

I second Don on this one but would personally lean towards a revolver for a first handgun...particularly for the missus. Simple operation and easy to maintain. Consider .32 and up....22's require too much precision for a beginner to bring someone down, IMHO and I know of bad guys getting up and running off with couple of poorly placed .22's in them. A nice short barrel S/W or similar would likely do for your needs. After she gets used to that, THEN consider moving up to something with a bit more "oomph" and capacity.

Just my .02.

I just finished cleaning up a few guns after a trip to the range today, how appropriate!
I read, well skimmed, through the thread so I apologize if I repeat anything that has already been mentioned.

First off, stick with your plan of trying out different types of hand guns. Talk to family and friends and head out to the range with them and shoot as many different guns as you can before making your decision. A lot of ranges rent handguns, this is a great way to try several back to back and get a feel for every one. Keep in mind, bigger isn't always better. It is usually more fun though

Second, be honest with yourself and decide what this gun is for. Are you looking for an inexpensive handgun in order to practice the fundamentals? If so something in .22 would be a good choice. A .22 isn't going to be a powerful gun, but it will be good for learning the basics of handling firearms and marksmanship while taking it easy on the wallet. If you decide you want more power while maintaining an easy shooter 9mm would be a good choice. 9mm is a fairly capable round, but it is also cheap (relative to other handgun rounds) to shoot and practice with.

Third, decide what kind of gun you like. By this I mean revolver or auto. Do homework and decide the pros/cons of each, the internet is your friend here. Make this decision after you get some range time in with both types of guns.


If you decide to go with a .22 I would look at the S&W 22A, any of the Ruger .22 autos or revolvers, and the Browning Buckmark. There are several other good guns out there but these are the ones that I think of first. Of these the S&W is going to be the least expensive around $220 and it is a great shooter.

If you jump up to a larger round such as the 9mm you will have several good options for a little bit more money than the .22s. Most of these will be DAO guns and will have a consistent trigger pull every time combined with very simple operation. Some that come to mind are the Ruger SR9, Springfield XD series, and the S&W M&P9. Personally, I would pick an auto in 9mm before a revolver in .38special/.357 right now because the difference in the cost of ammo over anything else (well that and being able to carry more than twice as many rounds.) Just food for thought, but in my area 50 rounds of .22 is usually no more than $4. 50 rounds of 9mm is about $9-11 and 50 rounds of .38 is usually $20+. That is for new name brand ammo. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

What ever you decide to do be safe and have fun!

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: I've gotten a lot of great suggestions on guns, but what type of courses are out there? What am I going to need to do to make a gun purchase. My Brother in Law will fill me in I'm sure, but I'd thought I'd ask here anyhoo. I hear on talk radio about these $50 classes all the time. Jim

Ask your local gun store for classes in the area, and like others have said, stick with NRA certified.

Also, i see a lot of suggestions,but i missed what you want to do with it ( carry, home defense, plinking, etc ) .. That makes a difference in what you may want to choose.

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: Ask your local gun store for classes in the area, and like others have said, stick with NRA certified. Also, i see a lot of suggestions,but i missed what you want to do with it ( carry, home defense, plinking, etc ) .. That makes a difference in what you may want to choose.

Ultimately, it is for home defense, but I plan on going to the range a lot, and eventually getting a CWP.

Jim

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Ultimately, it is for home defense, but I plan on going to the range a lot, and eventually getting a CWP. Jim

For me, that would limit my choices. I would not want to be carrying around a full sized pistol all the time, it gets heavy and you get too many questions. Even if its an open carry state, its not worth the hassle. Along the same lines, id stick with a 9mm, as i feel its the best compromise of weight/power/repeatability. I have a G26 as my daily carry for this reason, its light and small enough not to be overly visible beneath a shirt, but still powerful enough to stop someone, and any followup shots in a panic situation will be accurate.

If it was only for the range, id go with full sized frame of course.

First gun? Look long and hard at a Ruger sp101 in a .357. Five shot power house semi compact revolver. You can plink with cheap .38s in it or get serious with high power .357s. The price is good and they are almost indestructible with a good resale.

I love mine.


Vinny

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: Ask your local gun store for classes in the area, and like others have said, stick with NRA certified. Also, i see a lot of suggestions,but i missed what you want to do with it ( carry, home defense, plinking, etc ) .. That makes a difference in what you may want to choose.

What is plinking?

Jim

Nevermind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plinking

[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 12-31-2010).]

Ok Jim here is my two cents. You should rent different handguns at the range to see which ones you are comfortable with. I would suggest a Glock 9mm. 84fiero123 posted some very good info on the Glock. It's ammo is cheap enough to go to the range on a regular basis and if you want stopping power all you need is hollow points. Now there will be other opinions as to which is better for whatever reason. This is just my preference. Good luck with whatever you decide to get.

P.S. Don't forget to get a Trigger Lock and a safe to put it in. That way your daughter doesn't get any ideas. I have two daughters and one has my temper.

------------------
Chuck
86 Fiero SE

Lots of good advice here

I've been shooting since I was about 3-4 years old, my dad used to compete heavily in IDPA/IPSC and now teaches conceal/carry classes in OK, and I own a small pile of guns myself so I'll toss in my two cents also.

First, there's nothing wrong with having more than one gun. I would recommend buying a .22 pistol to practice and learn on first, and after you've tried some other guns in different calibers while on your trips to the range, then choose a gun suitable for home defense and/or conceal/carry purposes. For a .22, I'd recommend a revolver or a Browning Buckmark camper (I got one used for $150) or a Ruger. Ask any friends that may shoot to take you with them to the range or look around for a local shooting club that you could join while you're learning how to plink. Most guys I know have no problem teaching new people how to shoot.

For a larger caliber, 9mm or .40 cal or 38special are all good carry calibers, among others. I don't think I'd use a .22 as a carry gun, unless it was a last resort. Popping a few .22 rounds into some drugged up meth-head is only going to make him angry instead of put him down. Personally, I think a full-frame 1911 is too big to conceal properly but thats just my opinion. I'm rather fond of Glock, they feel good in my hands, are damn near indestructible, and they're common enough to be found at affordable prices ($400-500, used).

If you want to save some coin, hit up pawn shops or gun shows for used guns. Try to bring a gun-savvy friend with you though so that you don't end up with a worn out piece of junk with an enticing price tag on it though. I've also had good luck with http://www.armslist.com although its a fairly new site so most of the ads are located in larger cities.

After you've shot a .22 enough to be comfortable with it, move up to a larger caliber and keep practicing. Do bring your wife and anyone else in your household along to learn with you, its more fun that way and its safer when everyone in your household knows how to safely operate any weapons in your home.

Something no one has touched on is the fact that most pistols are capable of a .22 conversion in a matter of less than a min.

Glock, 1911, are 2 that come to mind right away. Both are the most dependable guns I have ever used. But if you want duel capability and cheep range costs that is something to consider as well.

http://www.google.com/searc...d=ie7&rlz=1I7GGIE_en

It saves you buying 2 guns to get 2 calibers. It also allows you to get the feel of your carry gun at the range a lot more. And as anyone will tell you plinking with a 22 is just plain fun and cheep.

Amanda love shooting at gallon plastic milk jugs filled with water with a BB gun or anything bigger.

So you can make it a family outing, going to the range.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Something no one has touched on is the fact that most pistols are capable of a .22 conversion in a matter of less than a min. Glock, 1911, are 2 that come to mind right away. Both are the most dependable guns I have ever used. But if you want duel capability and .... Steve

That's the whole point of the thread I believe--to be able and prepared to shoot it out with an adversary--tho the true gentlemans' practice of honor preservation thru dueling is outlawed almost everywhere nowdays.

quote Originally posted by kkavmann69: P.S. Don't forget to get a Trigger Lock and a safe to put it in. That way your daughter doesn't get any ideas. I have two daughters and one has my temper.

I plan on getting a biometric safe that opens with my finger print. That way, only I can get into it. My daughter doesn't have a temper, but she has my wife's curiousity. I don't think I'll mess with a trigger lock when it's in the house, only when transporting. Cuz when seconds matter, the cops are minutes away. I think a trigger lock defeats the purpose of having a gun for self defense, in the first place.

Jim

.38 special rossi


.38 special smith and wesson chief special


.45 springfield armory 1911 a1


.45 glock model 21(not the compact glock)

[This message has been edited by dmcgreene (edited 01-03-2011).]

quote Originally posted by dmcgreene: .38 special rossi

Oooooh pictures! My Dad actually has a .38 Special, except it's solid black. He doesn't know what make it is. The only marking it has, are the words, "Made in Germany". I handled it a lot more than normal, this weekend, when making our Christams visit. It is very comfortable in my hand and is not very heavy. I have not had a chance to shoot it yet, but that will come soon enough.

Jim

Some of my toys as long as we a sharing pics !



The two pointing up are Black powder revolvers

From top left moving down There is a High Standard "High Sierra .22", Uberti SAA 45Colt, Ruger MK-II .22, Rossi 971vrc .357, Russian Makarov 9mm x 18

Center row top Springfield XD45 LE, Taurus 24/7 .40, Springfield 1911-A1 .45, Springfield 1911-A1 Champion .45, Sig Sauer P238 .380

Last row High Standard "High Sierra .22", Uberti SAA .22, Ruger MK-I .22, Taurus .357, Astra "Constable" .32.

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Right now, I'm looking for ease of use, and safety until I am more familiar with the use of a handgun. Of course, it needs to put someone down, and not just wound. Minimum 22 or 38? Yes, that is a question. Jim

ANY gun will kill. It's all about shot placement.

As for what gun: Handle them. If it doesn't feel good in your hand, don't buy it.

A polymer gun will be lighter than a full metal gun. It's easier to handle and move around, but it kicks more.

Double action means the hammer is cocked and released all in one trigger pull. Single action means that when you pull the trigger you are just releasing the hammer (it gets cocked by other means, either by you or by cycling of the gun). Striker fire is what glocks, walthers, and some S&W guns are. They have a "striker" that gets "cocked" every time the slide cycles. It cannot be set by the trigger in any way. So, if you a cartridge missfires, you cannot shoot again until you cycle a round.

Some guns have interchangeable hand grips. So, if it doesn't feel good in your hand, before writing the gun off, see if it is one that has interchangable hand grip sizes.

Often, you get what you pay for.

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: Some of my toys as long as we a sharing pics ! The two pointing up are Black powder revolvers From top left moving down There is a High Standard "High Sierra .22", Uberti SAA 45Colt, Ruger MK-II .22, Rossi 971vrc .357, Russian Makarov 9mm x 18 Center row top Springfield XD45 LE, Taurus 24/7 .40, Springfield 1911-A1 .45, Springfield 1911-A1 Champion .45, Sig Sauer P238 .380 Last row High Standard "High Sierra .22", Uberti SAA .22, Ruger MK-I .22, Taurus .357, Astra "Constable" .32.

You expecting an invasion? Nice collection

Jim

Quoted for truth. There should be a few ranges that allow rentals around you. Try a few different handguns, and find one that you like and is enjoyable to shoot. Personally, I'd recommend a .380 or 9mm as a start, then look at the .40 and .45s. Myself, I have found that I prefer the 9mm, as I can get good capacity, and it is comfortable to shoot and practice with. I'm currently saving for a Beretta 92A1, but that's a ways off. My BUG is a Baby Browning in 25ACP.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Go to a range and use as many different style and calibers you can. Glock for a beginner is not a good choice, no secondary safety. Other than the second trigger inside the trigger. I’m 5’8” tall and weight in around 160 lbs and have had a 45 model 1911 and they kick like a mule, on steroids. So if your wife maybe using the pistol you might want to rethink that caliber. Plus realigning a target after a shot takes longer because of recoil. But try them all, all calibers and guns. Owning a hand gun is like getting married, some work, and some don’t. We have a Glock 17, 9 mm and that fits myself and the wife likes it to. Granted it may take more hits to bring a man down. But with 17 rounds I got plenty. If you know any cops see if they have a Hogan’s ally range. It is more for cops and real life action as far as firing a gun. Just my opinion. Steve

quote Originally posted by 86fierofun: How do you like the P238? seems like they've recalled half the gun. Not what I expected from sig... EDIT: BTW, I'm a HUGE sig fan. I am seriously interested in what you think of your little guy there.

The Sig has been great, totally reliable. It is a late model after they worked out the bugs.

quote You expecting an invasion? Nice collection

Ha ! you oughtta see our rifle collection !!

quote Originally posted by 86fierofun: A glock is NOT DAO! This is important to know! It will NOT act like one! EVERY time the striker falls (firing pin equivalent) the gun needs to cycle again before it can strike again. On a DAO, this does not have to happen. You can pull the trigger to reset the firing pin. This is important in feed errors. It's not necessarily a bad thing, just something important to be aware of. If a Glock, S&W M&P or Sigma, or a Walther (there may be others) fails to fire, you MUST cycle the gun manually to be able to shoot again.

Glocks are still maketed as DAO, I know they are not really in the true definition, but niether are XD's or M&P's, the only true DAO's I know of are hammerless revolvers, the Taurus 24/7 line, and some small CCW guns like my wifes NAA Guardian. I am sure more have come out but I have not been looking lately.

[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 01-04-2011).]

Several sigs come DAO. In fact, the new P250 is ONLY available in DAO

Spent some time today going to some local gun shops/shooting ranges. I didn't do any shooting, but asked a lot of questions. I found a shop right across the street from me, that I never knew was there. I did, as was suggested, and told everyone I was a total newb and completely ignorant. Glenn, at this particular shop was the most helpful. He seemed genuinely interested in me as a future customer, and in getting me the best education. I'm sure his motives aren't totally based on my well being, but he didn't treat me like I had herpes just because I didn't know everything already. He'll be getting my money, at least for classes and practice shooting. His prices seemed to be retail on the guns, so I will have to shop around for deals. I only looked at posted prices, maybe they deal a little. He is NRA certified, and offers a class for $50 an hour plus ammo. One hour would include 1/2 hour instruction, and 1/2 hour shooting. I can take as many hours as I see fit. He would teach my wife and I at the same time for the one price. He also encouraged me to bring the kids up for a safety class. He would try and help instill the importance of respecting a gun and let them shoot too. His stance was that everyone in a household needs to familiar with the gun. I must say I agree. I did handle a few guns. Couldn't tell you which ones. I can't remember, but I did learn that my grip is not that big, or at least I learned that I like the feel of a smaller handle in my hand. (yeh, I know, that's what she said! ) A few, that I handled, felt like the gun would fall out of my hand , if I shot it. Just didn't feel secure. On top of all this, when I was telling my wife about it, she said she definitely wants to go to the classes with me, and eventually get her CCP also. I wanted make love to her right there, but her boss has his CCP, and said he would shoot me, if I did!

Jim

[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 01-12-2011).]

If you can establish a good relationship with this Gun Shop you should be able to get them to do transfers for you. This would allow you to shop around for the best price and give the owner the option of matching the price from his inventory or maybe finding an even better buy on the gun you've found online. The shop I deal with charges me around $20 to do a transfer, occaisionally they have not charged me at all.

------------------
Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.

I'm jealous of you guys . Out here in NYC you can't carry a concealed weapon, ok boohoo. But I'm an auxiliary police officer (a cop WITHOUT a gun) who isn't allowed to carry a gun, let alone a tazer, bb or paintball gun, or pepper spray. WTF, can't wait to return fire with my wood baton when fired upon haha. Good luck finding that perfect one OP.

Okay guys, I'm going to my first gun show this Saturday. What should I expect? What should I look out for? I'm not going to make a purchase, this is more of a fact finding excursion. I want to know what prices I can expect from a gun show versus a local shop. Need to find out what hurdles I will have to jump through when I actually "pull the trigger" on making a purchase. Etc, etc, etc.

Jim

Gun show pricing, at least in my area, is not that good of a deal. Usually can find them cheaper at a local store. The show will give you the chance to handle many different models though and see what feels good in your hand. Also can get lots of info, most of the dealers at the shows love to talk !

My wife's post on Facebook this morning. I am so turned on!

quote Originally posted by my sexy wife: going to the gun show tomorrow with hubby, honestly have never held a handgun before, rifles and bbguns yes...i think i want a tiny pocket size one...and shiny too

Jim

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: but he didn't treat me like I had herpes

And you didn't tell him, did you?

Just got back from the gun show. OMG! It was so crowded! I seriously thought we had been invaded by Russia, and everyone was stocking up on arms. I didn't get to talk as much as I wanted to, but I did did get some info, and handled a lot of guns. I found 3 brands that I really like. These are the ones I am going to go shoot this week. In reverse order of my preference:

#3 The Taurus brands. Good feel, not too heavy. Not sure if these come in .22 cal Couldn't get someone to ask at that moment. Kinda want to stay away from single action. Need more practice first.

#2 The Glocks. Better feel than the Taurus, but not a signifigant difference. I actually saw the .22 in this brand. Reputation is legendary.

#1 My favorite. The Sig Sauer .22 caliber Mosquito. I know, I know, that's a wimpy name, but this gun felt like an extension of my hand. Very light, and my wife actually favored it herself. Of course .22 ammo is cheap, and I think this would be an excellent training gun. It's something I can shoot with the boys and the wife. They also offer higher caliber versions of the same gun, so when I decide to move up to the higher caliber, it will be like shooting the same gun. I'll just have to adjust to the extra recoil from a higher caliber gun.

Feel free to insert your comments now. Thanks

Jim

[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 01-22-2011).]

Jimbo, if you liked the Sig, look into the FNP line from FN Herstal. A good used FNP 9mm can be had for around $300-$350, and brand new for about $450 depending on the shop. Feels like a Sig, takes down for cleaning like a Sig, and has very manageable recoil for a 9mm poly frame. I highly recommend if you go with a revolver to go with a 38 spl, and if you go with an automatic, nothing less than 9mm. Opinions will vary, and this is my personal preference, so it may not suit you.

For a good, cheap, and reliable 38 spl revolver, try and find an OLDER used Charter Arms one. Usually around $200 used and pretty good quality. Made in the US too. Just make sure its an older one. The newer ones lost a good bit of quality during manufacturing. And if you do get an older one, make sure the cylinder doesnt have a lot of play side to side when its closed.

And one last thing: Another reason I recommended the FNP-9 is because it comes with 3 hi cap mags (16+1), cable lock, and interchangeable backstraps for the grip, as well as a lockable ABS case. They are SA/D (single action/double action), which means they will fire either with the hammer back, or just by pulling the trigger with a round in the chamber. They have an auto decocker and a manual safety as well. When you engage the safety with the hammer cocked, it will engage the auto decocking mechanism and let the hammer down. But it still stays in the ready for carry porpoises and the safety is in just the right place that when you draw your thumb will release it. They are reliable as all hell, have a rebuildable frame rail, and have a great reputation. And they are extremely accurate. First 5 shots out of mine right after I bought it, 3 of 5 were headshots at 20 yards. This having never shot an FN or a 9mm before in my life, and this being the first time I had shot in over a year. And I only shoot maybe 2-3 times a year.

Link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FNP9
and here: http://www.fnhusa.com/le/pr...id=FNF002&gid=FNG001

If nott, look into the FNX line from FN, which was made to replace the FNP line. Offered in 9mm and 40 cal, with rumors of a 45ACP in the future. Has 4 interchangeable backstraps for the grip so you can customize the fit to your hand.

Just my 2 cents Hope it helps

Just an FYI, if you saw a Glock .22 it wasn't a glock. You probably saw the ISSC .22 Glock clone. Although they do make .22 conversion kits for the Glock.

here is my first gun i just got last weekend
smith wesson sigma 40 with 4 inch barrel that was ported and feed ramp is polished and sight is a night sight i got it used for 400 out the door from a gun store . but just order a neos from www.budsguns.com was about 80 to 100 less than gun store just going to take longer than a store .