I agree with what he says about things being squandered... He learned how to deal with the madness, but I don't agree to just be a spectator. I'd rather take ACTION to reduce the suffering...
But what occurred on Wall Street just wasn't EFFECTIVE ACTION. Their point didn't get across to the locals. Messages were to o scattered and they seemed to be enjoying themselves too much...It DID allow people to see ho wfar the authorities would go to "maintain "control", and a few people did wake up a little when they were treated like livestock as they tried to get to work...I got right through, but there were some arguements between cops and legitimate worker bees just trying to get to their hives. There was a LOT of "do you se ethe way the cops are looking at us/treating us? A few mentioned it wouldn't take much for the cops to turn on THEM (To Protect and Serve WHO?)
I hope Anonymous expected this half-baked as a possibility, have learned something from it, and and have something better up their virtual sleeve.
Some basics: Effective Protesters need planning Protesters need a central focus they need food they need bathrooms they need to NOT alienate the locals.
It was a small group which showed up more Authority there then protesters Protesters weren't 'ready' Glad there was no violence, it would have been wasted.
But it is clear when you interact w/ any level of authority, they are not there to 'help" you, nor do they WANT to.
They're there to keep the cows in line.
[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 09-20-2011).]
George Carlin had a very good point, using emotion makes you vulnerable.
And rarely can anyone drop emotion, it effects every one of us. We need to relearn the ability to judge things using as little emotion as possible.
Thanks for the updates Rumor, I still don't see Anonymous doing all of this with no plan behind it. This would be the first time I can think of that that happened, but anything is possible, and they are very fluid in everything they do, so like everyone else I'll wait and see. If it was for something we will learn about it, if not we should learn about that too.
George Carlin had a very good point, using emotion makes you vulnerable.
And rarely can anyone drop emotion, it effects every one of us. We need to relearn the ability to judge things using as little emotion as possible.
Thanks for the updates Rumor, I still don't see Anonymous doing all of this with no plan behind it. This would be the first time I can think of that that happened, but anything is possible, and they are very fluid in everything they do, so like everyone else I'll wait and see. If it was for something we will learn about it, if not we should learn about that too.
Brad
Al least they didn't lose any members in this 'attack'.
Sometimes, some of their video stuff borders on being 'silly'...
The secret truth is: Steven Hawking is the mastermind behind it all...
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10:53 AM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
I've been hearing reports that Facebook and Yahoo were censoring information/posts/emails regarding the protests, while they were taking place.
I have a yahoo email account, and have sent and recieved emails in the last couple of days with "Wall Steet Protests" and "Annonymous Protests" in the titles and body of the email with no problems at all on either end.
But, I've too, have been hearing some very disturbing reports, not the least of which, are that the NASA moon missions were all staged and filmed in some back lot studio, that GW Bush and the Bilderberg group planned and implemented 9-11 to further the New World Order and One World Governement, and that we'd all have flyin cars by now.
Masks? You mean like the little kiddies on Halloween? Grown men--in masks? Yep, the Egyptians are laughing their butts off.
i watched V for vendetta last night totally as epic as i remember it. i kinda wish we had a hero that could do that in this country.... remember remember thee 11th of september ;-)
Perhaps annonymous will now take down the computer networks on wall street as well as the networks at the banks and the financials institutuions. Then, do the same to cripple all the evil corporations like GE, GM, Ford, ATT etc. I would really enjoy seeing that happen--maybe they can do it continuosly for 6 months-2 years--even permanantly.
i watched V for vendetta last night totally as epic as i remember it. i kinda wish we had a hero that could do that in this country.... remember remember thee 11th of september ;-)
Step right up--nothing wrong with you doing it is there? Go ahead--give it a go--put it all on the line.
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11:37 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Perhaps annonymous will now take down the computer networks on wall street as well as the networks at the banks and the financials institutuions. Then, do the same to cripple all the evil corporations like GE, GM, Ford, ATT etc. I would really enjoy seeing that happen--maybe they can do it continuosly for 6 months-2 years--even permanantly.
Keep an eye out for a sudden increase in shorting stocks.
We will be our own undoing, no need for any groups do do a thing, really. They may accelerate the process, but it's all already been set in motion, the great 'becoming' is close at hand...the 'great smear'
Have you watched the markets the past few months? "expect more of this" they say. Erratic triple-digit movement every day.
it's almost past the tipping point already.
No one seems to have a plan
or a clue "experts" toss up their hands and shrug as they toss the ball in the roulette wheel
It's all happened before less technology then this time, perhaps, but humanity has done this dance a hundred times, if not more
our turn
put on yer dancin' shoes
Open a histpry book, you see the past condensed in a few hundred pages. Significant events detailed in a few short paragraphs. Years of history in a few sentences. it's like a car accident - takes only an instant, but it feels like seconds. Wonder how this period of time will be described? The paragraph detailing all of this?
The Lost Decade? The Last Decade? What will the world be like, a half century from now?
Too much to ponder with a sober mind, and I have nothing to drink but some pinapple juice.
Hurm...
[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 09-21-2011).]
Oh God--not the pineapple juice. Does your family know? Are you getting help for it? Have you thought about PA? It's low key groups one on one and starts with just the acknowledgment that "I'm Rumor and I'm a pineapple addict".
But, you're on the right track. Our demise is eminenet (in the long term focus of things--eminent is relative and doesn't neccessarily mean tomorrow) As I've said several times before, "If you want to know how we got here--look at where we've been". Our predictament is, if not inevitable, most certainly predictable. We are, in a natural order of seemingly declination, but that is in great part, simply an illusion. A lot of people want to blame someone, or some event, such as Bush, Obama, or sending jobs overseas. None of the above, even in conglomerate, they make little difference in the larger scheme of things. 5% unemployment is more than adequate and acceptable--so that means 4.1% more--according to what we hear--has brought us where we are. That's ridiculous. If it only takes a reduction of 4.1`% in our workforce to take us down, we never deserved to be successful to begin with. The real cause and other elements are never mentioned, because it isn't politically expediant nor contain any hint of optimism or room to "fix things"--assuming one actually believes things are broken to begin with. I do not, but for discussion purposes, we'll assume they are. How to "fix it"? One of 2 things can save us. One is another Next Big Thing--which is only a postponment or temporary reprieve. The other is a much darker & more sinister prospect--and it ain't socialism, communism, or marxism. Think--"What carried us into unbridled growth and prosperity? What brought about those 'good old days' of 3-4-5% growth we wish we had back?
Step right up--nothing wrong with you doing it is there? Go ahead--give it a go--put it all on the line.
actually i have no problem doing it. see the problem is not only planning its support, altering the view of the public thru the media, resources (money), and availiblity of technology. building a suit like ironmans is completly plausible minus the flying with litttle boosters on your limbs. unfortunatly this all takes money and connections and anyone who has all that doesnt give 2 shits about anyone who needs that. so the moment i win the powerball and granted i dont lose my objectivity to greed i would gladly risk it all. because what is money really worth if you and those around you are not free.
You already have an iron suit, won for you at Bunker Hill and Gettysburg. Heroes are just ordinary people who took the time and made the effort. Go for it.
Banks are sitting on cash hoards and corporate profits are riding high – yet ordinary US taxpayers face joblessness and cuts
* o o o reddit this * Comments (175)
* Amy Goodman * o Amy Goodman o guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 21 September 2011 10.15 EDT o Article history
Occupy Wall Street Anti-Bank Protest Protesters at the 'Occupy Wall Street' rally at Bowling Green Plaza, New York City, on 17 September; the demonstrations continue this week. Photograph: Steven Greaves/Demotix/Corbis
If 2,000 Tea Party activists descended on Wall Street, you would probably have an equal number of reporters there covering them. Yet 2,000 people did occupy Wall Street last Saturday. They weren't carrying the banner of the Tea Party, the Gadsden flag with its coiled snake and the threat "Don't Tread on Me". Yet their message was clear: "We are the 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%." They were there, mostly young, protesting the virtually unregulated speculation of Wall Street that caused the global financial meltdown.
One of New York's better-known billionaires, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, commented on the protests: "You have a lot of kids graduating college, can't find jobs. That's what happened in Cairo. That's what happened in Madrid. You don't want those kinds of riots here."
Riots? Is that really what the Arab Spring and the European protests are about?
Perhaps to the chagrin of Mayor Bloomberg, that is exactly what inspired many who occupied Wall Street. In its most recent communique, the Wall Street protest umbrella group said:
"On Saturday we held a general assembly, two thousand strong. … By 8pm on Monday we still held the plaza, despite constant police presence. … We are building the world that we want to see, based on human need and sustainability, not corporate greed."
Speaking of the Tea Party, Texas Governor Rick Perry has caused a continuous fracas in the Republican presidential debates with his declaration that the US's revered social security system is a "Ponzi scheme" Charles Ponzi was the con artist who swindled thousands in 1920 with a fraudulent promise for high returns on investments. A typical Ponzi scheme involves taking money from investors, then paying them off with money taken from new investors, rather than paying them from actual earnings. Social security is actually solvent, with a trust fund of more than $2.6tn. The real Ponzi scheme threatening the US public is the voracious greed of Wall Street banks.
I interviewed one of the "Occupy Wall Street" protest organisers. David Graeber teaches at Goldsmiths, University of London, and has authored several books – most recently, Debt: The First 5,000 Years. Graeber points out that, in the midst of the financial crash of 2008, enormous debts between banks were renegotiated. Yet only a fraction of troubled mortgages have gotten the same treatment. He said:
"Debts between the very wealthy or between governments can always be renegotiated and always have been throughout world history. … It's when you have debts owed by the poor to the rich that suddenly debts become a sacred obligation, more important than anything else. The idea of renegotiating them becomes unthinkable."
President Barack Obama has proposed a jobs plan and further efforts to reduce the deficit. One is a so-called millionaire's tax, endorsed by billionaire Obama supporter Warren Buffett. The Republicans call the proposed tax "class warfare". Graeber commented:
"For the last 30 years, we've seen a political battle being waged by the super-rich against everyone else, and this is the latest move in the shadow dance, which is completely dysfunctional economically and politically. It's the reason why young people have just abandoned any thought of appealing to politicians. We all know what's going to happen. The tax proposals are a sort of mock populist gesture, which everyone knows will be shot down. What will actually probably happen would be more cuts to social services."
Outside in the cold Tuesday morning, the demonstrators continued their fourth day of the protest with a march amidst a heavy police presence and the ringing of an opening bell at 9.30am for a "people's exchange", just as the opening bell of the New York Stock Exchange is rung. While the bankers remained secure in their bailed-out banks, outside, the police began arresting protesters. In a just world, with a just economy, we have to wonder: who would be out in the cold? Who would be getting arrested?
One of New York's better-known billionaires, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, commented on the protests: "You have a lot of kids graduating college, can't find jobs. That's what happened in Cairo. That's what happened in Madrid. You don't want those kinds of riots here."
One thing that bugs me, he DID say that, but this demonstration was planned long before he said that.
Lots of folks around here think they showed up after he said that...
If 2,000 Tea Party activists descended on Wall Street, you would probably have an equal number of reporters there covering them. Yet 2,000 people did occupy Wall Street last Saturday. They weren't carrying the banner of the Tea Party, the Gadsden flag with its coiled snake and the threat "Don't Tread on Me". Yet their message was clear: "We are the 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%."
You already have an iron suit, won for you at Bunker Hill and Gettysburg. Heroes are just ordinary people who took the time and made the effort. Go for it.
so very true most heros now adays are those that can expose people with credible evidence and right the wrongs. but direct violent confrontations generally dont work with one man armies nowadays due to the governments wide assortment of less than leathal and exremely leathal weapons. not to mention blind followers like the police departments....im suprised they havent put humvees on every street corner yet.
[This message has been edited by Niterrorz (edited 09-21-2011).]
Population of NYC is 8,391,881 according to the above website.
99% of 8,391,881 is 2000 people????????? (And I thought my math was poor.)
Unled, unorganized, unfocused, and extremely poor at math as well.
"We are the 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%."
I don't think that statement was meant to be a factual representation of the protest to population, more that they represent the 99% of the "non-wealthy".
As for being unled, I believe they stated that was part of the idea as well.
quote
On Saturday, about 1,000 showed up to protest that 40 per cent of the wealth in the U.S. is held by one per cent of the people, and a record one in seven Americans live in poverty, the highest rate in the industrialized world.
They want to know why the banks get bailouts, bankers get bonuses while ordinary citizens are losing their homes and jobs.
As it is legal to sleep on New York City sidewalks for political protests, police appear to have resorted to arresting people for using a megaphone without a permit, for wearing masks, for chalking sayings by Mahatma Gandhi on the sidewalk, and for protecting communication equipment from the rain with a tarp.
--Not what he said tho is it? As so many liberals are apt to say: "Stop putting words in people's mouths".
Funny how that is huh? It's ok to "read between the lines" when it's a certain segment speaking against the wealthy--but not when others speak. Evidently, some can indeed------ have it both ways.
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11:00 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Meanwhile legislative changes require banks to keep more capital on hand for the amount they loan out. So if they loan too much, they're in violation of federal regulations and risk being shut down by the Fed. If they don't loan enough, they're hoarding. Someone's going to be complaining either way.
Banks lost their shirts due to risky loans. Their response has been to be more conservative in making future loans, but that is also seen as banks being greedy and hoarding money, even though it helps prevent future failures and taxpayer bailouts.
I'm not sure what people expect them to do short of dropping bags of cash from hot air balloons over people's houses.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 09-21-2011).]
--Not what he said tho is it? As so many liberals are apt to say: "Stop putting words in people's mouths".
Funny how that is huh? It's ok to "read between the lines" when it's a certain segment speaking against the wealthy--but not when others speak. Evidently, some can indeed------ have it both ways.
Huh? I thought it was very clear that it is not meant to be a factual statement.
Unsure of how this has anything to do with what "many liberals are apt to say" or "having it both ways".
Meanwhile legislative changes require banks to keep more capital on hand for the amount they loan out. So if they loan too much, they're in violation of federal regulations and risk being shut down by the Fed. If they don't loan enough, they're hoarding. Someone's going to be complaining either way.
Banks lost their shirts due to risky loans. Their response has been to be more conservative in making future loans, but that is also seen as banks being greedy and hoarding money, even though it helps prevent future failures and taxpayer bailouts.
I'm not sure what people expect them to do short of dropping bags of cash from hot air balloons over people's houses.
Yep, that was the result of the stress tests a couple years ago. Banks HAD to up their cash reserves, and KEEP them up. Banks without adequate reserves were denied TARP, until they did improve their reserves. They are also denied certain allowances from the Fed if they can't prove they meet the new guidlines.
Cash from a balloon? Nah-not a chance, but, Look!! Up in the sky--It's a Bird--It's a Plane--NO!------It's HELICOPTER BEN!!!
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-21-2011).]
Yep, that was the result of the stress tests a couple years ago. Banks HAD to up their cash reserves, and KEEP them up. Banks without adequate reserves were denied TARP, until they did improve their reserves. They are also denied certain allowances from the Fed if they can't prove they meet the new guidlines.
Cash from a balloon? Nah-not a chance, but, Look!! Up in the sky--It's a Bird--It's a Plane--NO!------It's HELICOPTER BEN!!!
ROFLAMO! i love your saying and picture its so true.....ben burnake.....whata douche. end the fed!!!! let the treasury do what it was suppose to do.
The least amount of Protesters today But more cops then any other day so far (almost double) (Actually, I haven't seen ANY yet, there were about 30 yesterday, and counted over 200 cops on just two streets, several hundred more in the 3 sourounding blocks)
??????
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09:59 AM
Sep 27th, 2011
fierobear Member
Posts: 27106 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Another liberal liar. His parents home was NOT taken, they decided to negotiate a short sale with the bank. Note how he staged himself in front of all the cameras and reporters:
Another liberal liar. His parents home was NOT taken, they decided to negotiate a short sale with the bank. Note how he staged himself in front of all the cameras and reporters:
We will be our own undoing, no need for any groups do do a thing, really. They may accelerate the process, but it's all already been set in motion, the great 'becoming' is close at hand...the 'great smear'
Have you watched the markets the past few months? "expect more of this" they say. Erratic triple-digit movement every day.
it's almost past the tipping point already.
No one seems to have a plan
or a clue "experts" toss up their hands and shrug as they toss the ball in the roulette wheel
It's all happened before less technology then this time, perhaps, but humanity has done this dance a hundred times, if not more
our turn
put on yer dancin' shoes
Unless it's a New Orleans style death observance, people don't dance at wakes or funerals. You are getting closer Rumor, but not quite there yet. Tech has only a small part in this, no more so than the housing boom, the auto boom, the great 5% growth of the 60s, the great wiki wak suburbia spread of the 50s, WHAT, propelled us to the apex of being the greatest wealth and economic growth engine on earth? One single event set this stage, and it had nothing to do with politics. What SET of events brought us down--(they had nothing to do with politics) Not the rich---not the poor--not the middle class. Think man--think! It's so obvious (in hindsight) because every single great civilization went thru the same thing at a different time.
quote
It' s just frustrating.
It's frustrating times.
Why? I see nothing frustrating about these times. What is it that is frustrating you?
quote
Obviously Anon wants attention
Kinda counter intuitve to what they prize most of all-----anonymity.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-27-2011).]
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03:12 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Firstly, you can cause animals to obey by threatening liberty or future punishment. Dogs immediately come into my head--they respond to negative feedback as well as positive feedback. If you stick them in a cage after doing something wrong, they eventually quit doing that wrong thing because the cage is a loss of liberty and they wish to be out and free to run around.
But that was just a small thing.
The big picture is also wrong, as I saw it. Are many people slaves to their environment? Yes; absolutely. They are slaves to their own mind, though, not "farmers". You are born with a fence around you, but the fence has an open door. Some look at that, see opportunity, and take it. Others see what they want to see and would rather sit inside the fence and blame those that left the fence as doing something wrong.
Think about it--we can all make our own success. Choose a career that gives you a little more money than the bare necessities require. Invest that money, profit from the investments, and then use the money from the profits to invest again. You created that profit through your own ingenuity and train of thought. Nobody tells anyone they aren't allowed to invest. And money aside, success isn't just with economics. Success is your own peace and learning to be content with what is around you.
Do the "farmers" exist? Sure they do. There is a wealth of people that live inside the fence because they want to. The farmers will give them freedoms they are comfortable with--consumables--iPads, laptops, shiny objects, new clothes... But it is ultimately the people-inside-the-fences' fault that they are there. I'm telling you that gate is wide open. Many are just all too comfortable with being that cattle because cattle get fed and bred by the farmers. They don't want to leave that comfort zone... but that's all it is--a comfort zone. It's not a cage, or a prison, or an inescapable puzzle. It's a fence that defines a comfort zone, and it has a gate that is wide open at all times.
When slavery ended, people still served as servants who got fed and had a place to stay. Why? It was a comfort zone. It was easier than trying it all out on their own. The gate was open, but they didn't go through. In that case there was a lot of hatred for the previous slaves by a lot of people, so it's not exactly analogous to now, but it fits.
Basically all I'm trying to say is that Capitalism allows for cattle and farmers, but the farmers don't force the cattle to stay cattle. The cattle are free at any point to become the farmers. And as far as politics goes, the reason I fight so hard for less government in America is because I wholeheartedly believe that the more government we have the more cattle we have, while at the same time hurting the farmers whose only wrongdoing was leaving the fence. Government is the only farmer I'm afraid of, but we as a people control how powerful that farmer is. We can choose to have him be a big and powerful man who feeds us as long as we stay in the fence and attempt to keep us in there, or we can choose to have him be a smaller, less powerful farmer whose job is to show people the gate. I choose for him to be a small and weak farmer who doesn't mind when I leave the gate, because I'm already a foot out of the fenced area right now, and I don't wish to turn back.
Another thought I had was that anyone can choose to completely leave farming and not be cattle or a farmer. Anyone can walk out of the fence, move out of the country, and live completely on their own terms... hunting their own food, drinking natural sources of water, etc. But we all desire some form of community, or at least most do.
If people want to complain about being "slaves to the system", while at the same time completely disregarding the fact that everyone is free to choose their own future, then I have very little sympathy. There are a lot of people who scream injustices at those willing to take an extra few steps to ensure they get what they want. There are a lot of people who will type out on a computer how angry they are at corporations then go out and buy a brand new iPad and wear designer clothes. There are a lot of people who will complain about the political administration then never get off their asses and vote. I'm not one of those people. I'm leaving the fence as we speak and so far no farmer has gone hunting for me. Well, Obama hunts me as I did experience close to 35% taxes this summer on my paychecks, but I won't let him catch me before he's replaced
Just my thoughts.
EDIT: Added, IMHO to the top because really, it is just what I saw, and shouldn't be construed as me believing my opinion to be factual.
[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 09-27-2011).]
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09:21 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
yeah but fortunately we have history showing the original point is actually true and works. Even a D student in math can see that taxing "the rich" will reduce our national debt by a staggering 1%...wow, why aren't we doing this!?
Oh, and in the process, we will remove investment capital by upwards of 27%.
Firstly, you can cause animals to obey by threatening liberty or future punishment. Dogs immediately come into my head--they respond to negative feedback as well as positive feedback. If you stick them in a cage after doing something wrong, they eventually quit doing that wrong thing because the cage is a loss of liberty and they wish to be out and free to run around.
But that was just a small thing.
The big picture is also wrong, as I saw it. Are many people slaves to their environment? Yes; absolutely. They are slaves to their own mind, though, not "farmers". You are born with a fence around you, but the fence has an open door. Some look at that, see opportunity, and take it. Others see what they want to see and would rather sit inside the fence and blame those that left the fence as doing something wrong.
Think about it--we can all make our own success. Choose a career that gives you a little more money than the bare necessities require. Invest that money, profit from the investments, and then use the money from the profits to invest again. You created that profit through your own ingenuity and train of thought. Nobody tells anyone they aren't allowed to invest. And money aside, success isn't just with economics. Success is your own peace and learning to be content with what is around you.
Do the "farmers" exist? Sure they do. There is a wealth of people that live inside the fence because they want to. The farmers will give them freedoms they are comfortable with--consumables--iPads, laptops, shiny objects, new clothes... But it is ultimately the people-inside-the-fences' fault that they are there. I'm telling you that gate is wide open. Many are just all too comfortable with being that cattle because cattle get fed and bred by the farmers. They don't want to leave that comfort zone... but that's all it is--a comfort zone. It's not a cage, or a prison, or an inescapable puzzle. It's a fence that defines a comfort zone, and it has a gate that is wide open at all times.
When slavery ended, people still served as servants who got fed and had a place to stay. Why? It was a comfort zone. It was easier than trying it all out on their own. The gate was open, but they didn't go through. In that case there was a lot of hatred for the previous slaves by a lot of people, so it's not exactly analogous to now, but it fits.
Basically all I'm trying to say is that Capitalism allows for cattle and farmers, but the farmers don't force the cattle to stay cattle. The cattle are free at any point to become the farmers. And as far as politics goes, the reason I fight so hard for less government in America is because I wholeheartedly believe that the more government we have the more cattle we have, while at the same time hurting the farmers whose only wrongdoing was leaving the fence. Government is the only farmer I'm afraid of, but we as a people control how powerful that farmer is. We can choose to have him be a big and powerful man who feeds us as long as we stay in the fence and attempt to keep us in there, or we can choose to have him be a smaller, less powerful farmer whose job is to show people the gate. I choose for him to be a small and weak farmer who doesn't mind when I leave the gate, because I'm already a foot out of the fenced area right now, and I don't wish to turn back.
Another thought I had was that anyone can choose to completely leave farming and not be cattle or a farmer. Anyone can walk out of the fence, move out of the country, and live completely on their own terms... hunting their own food, drinking natural sources of water, etc. But we all desire some form of community, or at least most do.
If people want to complain about being "slaves to the system", while at the same time completely disregarding the fact that everyone is free to choose their own future, then I have very little sympathy. There are a lot of people who scream injustices at those willing to take an extra few steps to ensure they get what they want. There are a lot of people who will type out on a computer how angry they are at corporations then go out and buy a brand new iPad and where designer clothes. There are a lot of people who will complain about the political administration then never get off their asses and vote. I'm not one of those people. I'm leaving the fence as we speak and so far no farmer has gone hunting for me. Well, Obama hunts me as I did experience close to 35% taxes this summer on my paychecks, but I won't let him catch me before he's replaced
Just my thoughts.
EDIT: Added, IMHO to the top because really, it is just what I saw, and shouldn't be construed as me believing my opinion to be factual.
I think they were saying VERBALLY threatening liberty or future punishment. Stick a dog in a cage, he understands his lack of liberty... but tell him that if he chews the shoes again tomorrow, he will be put in a cage tomorrow, he might not 'get it'...I know some dogs are smart...Heh, maybe smarter then people-folk...
and people COULD just go away and do their own thing, but then they risked getting Foobarred by some evildoers (the castle/feudal lord offered some degree of protection... and eventually, it was someone's land you would be trying to live on...
[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 09-27-2011).]
I think they were saying VERBALLY threatening liberty or future punishment. Stick a dog in a cage, he understands his lack of liberty... but tell him that if he chews the shoes again tomorrow, he will be put in a cage tomorrow, he might not 'get it'...I know some dogs are smart...Heh, maybe smarter then people-folk...
That was just a small nitpicky thing I noticed. The rest carried the real meat.
I agree, up to a point. IMO, not EVERYONE CAN be a farmer (or 'zookeeper'), But everyone has at least some degree of choice in their lives. The less time wasted playing victim, the more time they can (possibly) augment themself. They can at least move from one pen to another, with a better farmer. And not everyone actually WANTS to be a farmer, they may want the POWER , and $$$, but they lack the ambition or desire to put in the time sacrifice and effort...they want to get all the stuff AND be a fat, lazy slob.
