quote Originally posted by twofatguys: If you don't know the answer to that by now you are not listening, or are not willing to hear the truth. Brad

Actually, to be fair, it's not that simple... Part of their goal this week was to determine just what they want...

Mainstream Media has painted them as losers, this afternoon, I heard someone on the radio say that Bloomberg's little 'riot' speech the other day is the REASON why they decided to do it (this has been planned for MONTHS)

Any news? I've been away...

I haven't seen or heard any news stories on this, so I guess it isn't that big of a deal or news worthy yet.

I don't buy it for a second that it isn't newsworthy- when that guy was accused to raping that cleaning lady, they closed down two streets and filled it w/ media folks.
A duck farts on Wall Street, and they have camera people all over.

I am VERY interested to see how they film the 'normal' Wall street news on Monday. I'm sure they will alter things so they won't be disturbed, which is understandable...

I like how they protected the bull statue by penning it in.

Too hard to tell what's REALLY going on down there...

Currently (and yesterday) "Nothing" is going on down there. So no, it isn't newsworthy. Now, if they were to all start jumping off the top of the trading floor builds, THAT, would be newsworthy.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Currently (and yesterday) "Nothing" is going on down there. So no, it isn't newsworthy. Now, if they were to all start jumping off the top of the trading floor builds, THAT, would be newsworthy.

And it would create shovel-ready jobs.

This video shows wall streets response. Sickening.

Lots of buzz on the internet... lots of angry people. I don't hate "rich" people. Never really understood that to be honest...

I'm not in support of this movement.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Lots of buzz on the internet... lots of angry people. I don't hate "rich" people. Never really understood that to be honest... I'm not in support of this movement.

I can't speak of this movement, because I don't know about this movement. However a lot of people are angry about corporate scandals, banking scandals, and investor scandals. Thats not hating rich people, thats hating criminals.
Some people are angry that the top 1% control 42% of the wealth, and the top 20% control 85% of the wealth. That would probably be ok, if not for outsourcing any type of job that the average person can obtain to other countries, and leaving us with only walmart jobs.
Yes you can become a molecular scientist, but when you get into jobs like that only x amount of the population can be supported by the economy. You can't have 300 million molecular scientist or 300 million mechanical engineers. We can't all be chiefs, and the indian jobs are gone. Now we have middle school drop out jobs for college grads. So yes I can say, unless they start preaching socialism I support this. Just watch the wealthy people on wall street sneer at the crowds in that video. Its disgusting.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: I can't speak of this movement, because I don't know about this movement. However a lot of people are angry about corporate scandals, banking scandals, and investor scandals. Thats not hating rich people, thats hating criminals. Some people are angry that the top 1% control 42% of the wealth, and the top 20% control 85% of the wealth. That would probably be ok, if not for outsourcing any type of job that the average person can obtain to other countries, and leaving us with only walmart jobs. Yes you can become a molecular scientist, but when you get into jobs like that only x amount of the population can be supported by the economy. You can't have 300 million molecular scientist or 300 million mechanical engineers. We can't all be chiefs, and the indian jobs are gone. Now we have middle school drop out jobs for college grads. So yes I can say, unless they start preaching socialism I support this. Just watch the wealthy people on wall street sneer at the crowds in that video. Its disgusting.

The outsourcing isn't the "rich" peoples' fault. It's the fault of corporate taxes being incredibly high. When it is so expensive to work here that it becomes cheaper to make something halfway around the entire Earth to sell here, there is a problem with the area, not the company. The folks that are practicing illegal activities should be punished, but those that play by the rules of the law should not. Unfortunately, I don't see the distinction ringing in peoples' eyes. I see blind hate for that 1%. They are coveting what their neighbors have just because they don't have it. The main point of the movement might be as you declare, but as far as the general public is concerned, I just see jealousy and hate everywhere I turn. It's disgusting.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: The outsourcing isn't the "rich" peoples' fault. It's the fault of corporate taxes being incredibly high. When it is so expensive to work here that it becomes cheaper to make something halfway around the entire Earth to sell here, there is a problem with the area, not the company. The folks that are practicing illegal activities should be punished, but those that play by the rules of the law should not. Unfortunately, I don't see the distinction ringing in peoples' eyes. I see blind hate for that 1%. They are coveting what their neighbors have just because they don't have it. The main point of the movement might be as you declare, but as far as the general public is concerned, I just see jealousy and hate everywhere I turn. It's disgusting.

I would almost buy into the corporate taxes bit, if it wasn't for companies that have remained here despite the taxes. Harley Davidson, S.R. Ruger, and Microsoft come to mind.

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: That must be all they want then. Makes sense to me. It doesn't matter what I say, or put. The people that don't want to understand what Anonymous is trying to accomplish will just skew everything out of proportion. Like the "one simple demand is free music downloads. " comment. There is no real sense in trying to explain to people that don't care in the first place. I could tell you how Anonymous is made up of people from all walks of life, in many countries, and they just want the truth about what really happens behind the closed doors of big Government, and Big Business. Like I did earlier in this same thead. But, like I said, if you don't want to hear it, you don't listen. I could go on about how they fight against things that cause suffering all over the world, go after people that abuse power. How they wish to keep people free, on all levels not just the freedom light that we have now. Nope, all the people that don't care will see is a group of computer nerds standing on the street making a big joke. So it doesn't matter what I say about them. Probably for the free music. Brad

Oh, that's it. We don't want to see "it" so we just don't get "it."
Your interpretation is they want to keep people free, fight suffering, etc. But if they have "one simple goal" can't it be simply stated? Please don't tell me it's "an end to dishonesty" because they'll need to wipe out the human race to achieve that. If it's an end to government corruption, ok, but why go after corporations? An end to corruption? Ok, who's corruption? All corruption?

I did find this: http://forums.whyweprotest....-for-anonymous.5280/
It says one goal is to "expel" the Church of Scientology from the internet. Also to do it "for the LULZ."

Or as one poster put it,

quote I dont think i could possibly say there is a set of defined goals for anonymous. Firstly because though along a similar direction, no one seems to have the exact same criteria. Some weigh disconnection over rpf, or vice versa, some want it totally dismantled, so want its reformation. And none decide what the others will do. Secondly, having a set lost of goals is one of the criteria for being labelled an organisation. And thats not something im much interested in either. Goals are for groups, not individuals. Just keep protesting until either the goals you have set for yourself have been met, or you lose interest.

Going by that, it's whatever you feel like protesting about, which may or may not have anything to do with what someone else wants to protest about.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Going by that, it's whatever you feel like protesting about, which may or may not have anything to do with what someone else wants to protest about.

Then we should all be out there protesting, GM killing every decent car they ever made.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 09-18-2011).]

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: This video shows wall streets response. Sickening.

I must have missed the sickening part.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I must have missed the sickening part.

Towards the end of it, the rich people on the balcony. They were laughing, sneering, taking pictures, and just generally showing utter contempt of the angry peons.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: Towards the end of it, the rich people on the balcony. They were laughing, sneering, taking pictures, and just generally showing utter contempt of the angry peons.

You mean they were mocking the protesters? Yeah, and? What is your reaction to people who disapprove of you or your lifestyle?

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 09-18-2011).]

No, it's not caused by corporate taxes being overly high--even tho they are. It's caused by us, and our expectations of a very high standard of living that is no longer sustainable in this era. It "was". back when we were the big dog in industry and tech and even more so when we were the only dog in the fight for several decades, but those pardigms no longer exist. Anyone who belives they do is optimistically delusional at best,

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Yeah, and? What is your reaction to people who disapprove of you or your lifestyle?

Reasoning would be a good one, the response kinda screams, yeah we do and there is nothing you will ever be able to do about it.

The Egyptians must be laughing their asses off.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: Reasoning would be a good one, the response kinda screams, yeah we do and there is nothing you will ever be able to do about it.

Reasoning? You mean like one of those few dozen going down to a chanting throng of thousands to talk reason?
Yes, it DOES scream "yeah we do and you can't do anything about it" just like most people would in the same situation.

You didn't answer my question. How do you respond to people who tell you your way of life is wrong and you should change? Does it shame you into changing your ways, or do you want to rub their nose in it while you point and laugh at them? If your neighbor tells you working on a Fiero is stupid and you should get rid of it, does that make you want to sell your Fiero, or go out of your way to work on it when he's watching?

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: I would almost buy into the corporate taxes bit, if it wasn't for companies that have remained here despite the taxes. Harley Davidson, S.R. Ruger, and Microsoft come to mind.

You make a good point.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: No, it's not caused by corporate taxes being overly high--even tho they are. It's caused by us, and our expectations of a very high standard of living that is no longer sustainable in this era. It "was". back when we were the big dog in industry and tech and even more so when we were the only dog in the fight for several decades, but those pardigms no longer exist. Anyone who belives they do is optimistically delusional at best,

I would say both play into the picture, though expectations are at a dangerous level. The "needs" that are assumed for a household far extend shelter and food nowadays. Likewise, wants consume our thoughts. We have become greedy as a whole. Content holds little meaning.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Reasoning? You mean like one of those few dozen going down to a chanting throng of thousands to talk reason? Yes, it DOES scream "yeah we do and you can't do anything about it" just like most people would in the same situation. You didn't answer my question. How do you respond to people who tell you your way of life is wrong and you should change? Does it shame you into changing your ways, or do you want to rub their nose in it while you point and laugh at them? If your neighbor tells you working on a Fiero is stupid and you should get rid of it, does that make you want to sell your Fiero, or go out of your way to work on it when he's watching?

First find out what they are mad about, then try to work to some form of understanding. I doubt all of them just hate people for being rich. I think the majority of them are just being tired of screwed over. If your not willing to do that, just stay inside and ignore them, they will eventually go away.

They don't even (by their own admission) know what they're mad about. Ask 50 different people what it is, you will likely get 50 different answers, tho they could each just say "I covet what someone else has" and finally at least be honest about it.

all this v for vendetta stuff makes me wanna watch the movie again..... down with uncontrolled govermentment! yay i cant wait untill the zombie apocolypse and whatnot or armageddeon ill take ethier or..... or even better the revolution i like that one the best it gives me almost the highest chance of survival and i still get to keep cars and computer ect just get a new government......yup thats the order now....1.revolution 2. zombie apocolypse 3. armageddeon 4. invasion from canada

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: So many people in the chat seem against what they are doing. That ticks me off a little. Those protesters might be the "wannabe hippies" of today, but I think a lot of them are just totally frustrated at the situation of the world, perhaps a bit ignorant, but legitimately frustrated. I don't think they are all lazy "want something for nothing" liberals or whatever they are callin' them, and I think those that mock them are Armchair A-holes. Admittedly, I'm not down there with them, I'm an armchair supporter. A decade ago, I'd be down there. Things change when you have a family. (for ME, anyway) I admit that. I wish them the best, and hope they are able to do something positive.

Interesting post.
Yes, things do change when you have family, ... but, sometimes you have to say "what the frack" (Tom Cruise - Risky Business) and do it anyway. Things don't always change just because of family. A job you might not want to lose or hope to gain can affect actions. The same with a home or car you owe money on, or even if it is paid for, you don't want to risk losing. Even jail time can upset critical financial planning, plus cost money. The wife hates it when I get out of the armchair. I find I do it less and less.
Educate me Rumor. What are they trying to do that so many in chat are against ? (Who by the way, coined the term hippie ? Was it the hippies or the establishment ?) I think we are all just frustrated. I will still admit to ignorance. Occupying Wall Street to me is like occupying a casino. Heh, a casino is set up for people to lose. Against odds. Wall Street seems a little more fair, in which research pays off, and chance has less of a hand. So what is the protest ?

To some, The area represents a Great Evil...although those who are responsible are miles away.

When we were shopping for a loan, I came across this and found it an interesting read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking

I'll post videos of the protest in a few minutes...

quote Originally posted by maryjane: They don't even (by their own admission) know what they're mad about. Ask 50 different people what it is, you will likely get 50 different answers, tho they could each just say "I covet what someone else has" and finally at least be honest about it.

I suspect they're mainly mad about the economy and the lack of jobs and opportunities-as they all protest and confer using items made overseas. Later, they'll drive home in their foreign designed/made vehicles burning imported fuel. Ironically, when those jobs left for much cheaper labor, no/ little environmental regulation, and lower taxes the price of the product was rarely reduced; but, corporate profits and the individual wealth of the"rich" rose substantially. The money(wealth makes a one-way trip and doesn't return). Sooner or later the well runs dry-which is currently happening. I see enough fault to go around. Nothing will change as long as corporate profits and an import driven economy take precedence over putting Americans to work.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Oh, that's it. We don't want to see "it" so we just don't get "it." Your interpretation is they want to keep people free, fight suffering, etc. But if they have "one simple goal" can't it be simply stated? Please don't tell me it's "an end to dishonesty" because they'll need to wipe out the human race to achieve that. If it's an end to government corruption, ok, but why go after corporations? An end to corruption? Ok, who's corruption? All corruption? I did find this: http://forums.whyweprotest....-for-anonymous.5280/ It says one goal is to "expel" the Church of Scientology from the internet. Also to do it "for the LULZ." Or as one poster put it, Going by that, it's whatever you feel like protesting about, which may or may not have anything to do with what someone else wants to protest about.

I can tell you whatever, you will skew it to extremes, and continue mocking. Like I said earlier, no hard feelings.

And each individual (including me) will have a separate point of view on the goal. That's cool too.

Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: I can tell you whatever, you will skew it to extremes, and continue mocking. Like I said earlier, no hard feelings. And each individual (including me) will have a separate point of view on the goal. That's cool too. Brad

Please tell me in your opinion what the group's goal(s) is/are.
Just a simple statement. I may agree or disagree, but all I'm looking for is a reason for their cause.

If you're protesting high taxes, or the wars, or welfare benefits, etc., there's a tangible reason why you're protesting. Nothing I've seen suggest they have a reason attributiable to the group itself - only individual grevieances. That doesn't make the individual greviances invalid, but it doesn't give any clear vision of the group. Maybe that's the purpose?

It sounds to me they're in favor of anarchy and just protesting because they can, i.e. doing it for the LULZ. If you think I'm wrong, please say so.

Protesting Wall St. does make me wonder how many of them have a clue..

The problem's too big.

No central focus, just general angst againt the situation.

They should have either
NOT shown up
or

Shown up at a totally different location. That would have been a LOT more effective, the amount of time, equipment, and manpower the NYPD used was pretty astounding. The protestors, even if they were in greater number and more 'organized', wouldn't have had a chance.

At least they tried SOMETHING.

Hope they learn from this and become a bit more "creative"

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 09-19-2011).]

I think maybe this is just to show the government that Anonymous can and will act outside the net.

I have yet to see any stories about this in the news down here.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: I have yet to see any stories about this in the news down here.

Because our news is ignoring it, you will have to use alternative news. CBS online had a piece about it.

They had the whole area locked down, about a 6 square block radius.

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 09-19-2011).]

I've seen several articles about it, and have seen it on my local TEEVEE! station. It's kinda hard for a newscaster to say much more than "They continue protesting down at Wall Street" when about all they are doing is milling about, occassionally shouting something vague, and mostly appear to be talking on cell phones and texting one another. I grew up in the 60s--I have seen a lot of protests both here and in foriegn nations------this is NOT a protest. This is a simple gathering of unled people with not much of a goal other than to "be there". I am glad to see them exercising their constituional right to freely gather and to protest, but I've seen more zeal at a Festivus airing of greivances.

The Dow BTW, dived early, then recovered, closing only down a tad---less than 1% lower--and that was ALL, on news that S&P downgraded Italy's debt.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-19-2011).]

The New York Times reports the arrests were made under provisions which make it illegal for more than two or more individuals to wear masks, while another woman was arrested for writing on the sidewalk in chalk.

The leaderless, generally peaceful protest disrupted Wall Street's normal activity Monday, as police barricades closed off several blocks near Wall Street and the New York Stock Exchange for security. Residents and employees of businesses in the area must show identification to get through the barricades

http://www.ibtimes.com/arti...ee-five-arrested.htm

"disrupted Wall Street's normal activities today"
Define "Wall Street" in the context used in your quote Newf.
If you mean out on the pavement--perhaps. If you mean the generally accepted definition of Wall Street---hardly. Wishful thinking and an optimistic spin at best. Shares traded today on the DJIA =

quote Volume: 157.58million.

When ya don't have friggin clue how you got where ya are or where you're going--any street will take you there.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-19-2011).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I've seen several articles about it, and have seen it on my local TEEVEE! station. It's kinda hard for a newscaster to say much more than "They continue protesting down at Wall Street" when about all they are doing is milling about, occassionally shouting something vague, and mostly appear to be talking on cell phones and texting one another. I grew up in the 60s--I have seen a lot of protests both here and in foriegn nations------this is NOT a protest. This is a simple gathering of unled people with not much of a goal other than to "be there". I am glad to see them exercising their constituional right to freely gather and to protest, but I've seen more zeal at a Festivus airing of greivances. The Dow BTW, dived early, then recovered, closing only down a tad---less than 1% lower--and that was ALL, on news that S&P downgraded Italy's debt.

This is totally accurate.

quote "disrupted Wall Street's normal activities today" Define "Wall Street" in the context used in your quote Newf. If you mean out on the pavement--perhaps. If you mean the generally accepted definition of Wall Street---hardly. Wishful thinking and an optimistic spin at best. Shares traded today on the DJIA =[QUOTE]Volume: 157.58million.

They didn't stop any 'Wall-Street-y" business on Monday. One very bad thing I saw was that most 'local' folks were totally against them, even though they're bitching about a lot of the same things the protesters are (around the water cooler)


[quote]
I think maybe this is just to show the government that Anonymous can and will act outside the net.


That's good stuff, and I hope they are more effective in the future. This is the way you need to fight the hidden enemy.

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 09-20-2011).]