quote Originally posted by Patrick: Backpedaling...

What's the matter? The conclusion that you jumped to turn out to be incorrect?

Maybe next time you will look (or at least read) before you leap.

[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 06-03-2011).]

What is missing from Doug85's posts is a hint of human compassion, or respect for the life of anyone else. One wonders if he has fanboy posters of Josef Mengele on his walls at home in his room. The way he's responded to Neptune's posts about his mom's condition is all the proof needed to understand this about Doug.Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy is a strong characteristic of psychopathy in adults.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: What is missing from Doug85's posts is a hint of human compassion, or respect for the life of anyone else. One wonders if he has fanboy posters of Josef Mengele on his walls at home in his room. The way he's responded to Neptune's posts about his mom's condition is all the proof needed to understand this about Doug.Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy is a strong characteristic of psychopathy in adults.

When you can't challenge the words, attack the man.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Maybe next time you will look (or at least read) before you leap.

Maybe next time you will think (or at least try) before you post.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Then why haven't you killed her yet?

Lots of people have lost loved ones. Some tragically fast, and others agonizingly slow.
Don't even think to try and compare one person's lot to another's and think you have it better or worse.

Quality of life isn't something someone else needs to be deciding for anyone.

Not even talking about assisted suicide, withholding medical treatment at the end of life has the same effect and it's the same decision. When you have to make a decision and know that the result of that decision will be a loved one's death, then you'll understand. Pray you never face that moment. Pray you have the strength to do what your loved one would want if you do.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Maybe next time you will think (or at least try) before you post.

That was a calculated post to get a reaction from emotional reactionaries. It clearly worked.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: When you can't challenge the words, attack the man.

That statement assumes the words have enough meaning to be worth challenging. That would be a bad thing to ass-u-me...

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: That was a calculated post to get a reaction from emotional reactionaries. It clearly worked.

So you admit then that you were trolling?

Trolling in a thread about someone's death?

Trolling by being totally insensitive to Neptune's situation with his poor mom?

And you think it's all very funny?


That's sick and disgusting...

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: That statement assumes the words have enough meaning to be worth challenging. That would be a bad thing to ass-u-me...

Apparently they were worth making a person attack.

I think you and Patrick are just having trouble with the fact that Neptune considers his own mother's life as not worth living. Instead of addressing the real problem, you attack the person who asked him a direct question.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: I think you and Patrick are just having trouble with the fact that Neptune considers his own mother's life as not worth living. Instead of addressing the real problem, you attack the person who asked him a direct question.

Man, you are more twisted than I ever imagined.

Doug - Lets put it this way. If I was in Neptunes shoes, I wouldn't waste the time of day with your self-righteous reply's. You don't want to debate, you want to belittle. May be Neptunes grandmother had wishes to take it out to the end and he's honoring those wishes. Just because assisted suicide is available doesn't mandate it for all who choose. May be Neptune see's his grandmother suffer and doesn't want to put that burden on HIS kids or himself and chooses a different route.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Speaking of which, why aren't you crying about this thread not being labeled POLITICAL . I guess you don't complain when the thread is started by one of your buddies.

I did not label this POLITICAL becouse it is not.
It is a death notice.
Hence the "We are all just dust in the wind" as my only comment.

Me and Jazzman are "buddies"?
That don't bother me none, although I don't remember formally declaring for each other.
Yet.

quote Originally posted by RandomTask: Doug - Lets put it this way. If I was in Neptunes shoes, I wouldn't waste the time of day with your self-righteous reply's. You don't want to debate, you want to belittle. May be Neptunes grandmother had wishes to take it out to the end and he's honoring those wishes. Just because assisted suicide is available doesn't mandate it for all who choose. May be Neptune see's his grandmother suffer and doesn't want to put that burden on HIS kids or himself and chooses a different route.

Until Neptune speaks up, we won't know, will we?

With regards to the exchange going on, Patrick and Jazz were the first to throw down. My replies have been tame compared to theirs. I don't see you addressing anything they said.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: You didn't consider that anyone would discuss how Mr. Kevorkian lived his life? .

I have no control over what others do.
But I did not mention politics, religion, or include a link to anything related to him or his life and death.

It was not intended to be political or religious.
Your beef is with the first person to mention either of the above in this thread.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 06-03-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Then why haven't you killed her yet?

, he is not a ....

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Change her diaper a few times, then walk a mile in those shoes, tough guy.

My grandma is 104 years old. She don't wear diapers. She has a colostrphey bag (catches all the body wastes)which my Dad empties every day, sometimes more. He even has to bath her. He has expressed displeasure with having to see his Mom naked. My mother in law, she has a nurse to help us care for her.
Maybe your Mom wouldn't be waiting to die if you cared for her. Did she let you lay in your poo ? I have barely seen my wife in three months, as she is caring for, and enjoying, her Mom in her Mom's last days.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Against euthanasia, or just his brand of it?

An honest question, deserving an honest answer. A tough question.
I could not even put my dog down. I had the vet do it.
However, it is considered humane to put a horse with a broken leg out of it's misery. It is not however considered ok to take a human life. Should we decide who lives and dies ?

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: In the analogy that many people seem to use is that of a pet dog or cat. When someone describes how bad off their dog or cat is, it is not unusual to ask why they have not put them down yet. Obviously in your heart you don't think that euthanasia is mercy, hence the emotional outbursts.

It would seem unusual to ask if a person has "killed" their pet however IMO. I think that's partially why your comment was upsetting to some.

As for what's in others hearts. Presuming things like that is a slippery slope IMO.

My internet is being super flaky and didnt load the whole thread. So if this has been posted im sorry (the link).
http://finalexitnetwork.org/
Assisted suicide should be legal for people who want to die...Its after all their choice, if they wish to die then so be it. If you are suicidal please dont use a gun.....They wont outlaw rope . Anywho, poke around that link.

quote Originally posted by newf: No matter how much you may dislike someones opinions about politics or whatever I don't think that's a fair thing to say. It's hard for anyone to understand someone elses life completely and to judge them about such things without understanding is wrong IMO.

He called me the tough guy. Not knowing or understanding my toughness.
If, as he says, his Mom is laying in her poo, she is not being cared for.

RIP everything else is moot

I've seen people in the advanced stages of AIDS with highly drug-resistant viruses that IMHO should've had an opportunity to make the choice as to whether they could end their lives with dignity or not.

I've always thought that making suicide a crime is not only exceedingly ironic (how you penalize someone that's successful at it?) but is also rather redundant conceptually. It should be a matter of choice if you wish to end your own life. As a side thought, it's kind of telling that we seem to place extremely high value on life at the very inception and the very end but are in some cases perfectly willing to ignore the years of humanity in between.

Honestly, I don't like this guy at all. Like many of the other sob stories here, I also had a grandmother with Alzheimers that I visited regularly, and watched her degenerate into someone who could no longer even leave her bed. She went from speaking fluent english, to resorting back to Spanish, and then babbling, and then not speaking at all.

If someone wants to kill themselves, they're certainly able to do it simply by refusal to eat and drink unless an IV is forced into them. I can only think of rare cases where a person who WANTS to kill themselves is not physically able to in their own regard.

I'm not cool with this guy assisting in suicides, I've watched a number of videos and nearly all the people I saw him help kill... were not crippled or parapalegic and could easily swallow some kind of drug or something.


On a side note, if you look into the psychiatry of this, many of the people who are not terminally ill, but extremely depressed, end up living happy lives near the end. Once they adjust to the fact that they can no longer do things the SAME way they used to do them before, they end up becoming content again. When a person kills himself, or in particular, if it becomes routine that people who are unhappy with their lives due to physical or mental ailments to kill themselves, what does that do for all the other people who have recently fallen into this situation and need hope more than anything else. If it becomes "understood" that suicide is a very acceptable out, then how many great minds and people will kill themselves because they weren't given the proper moral and teaching to help them through a difficult and dark time in their lives?

I think if you support a system where by doctors can assist in suicide, you're creating a cultural deviance that will only spread in the medical world. Doctors take an oath to sustain life at all costs, assisted suicide is hardly compatible with that. If you want to kill yourself... do it yourself.

Essentially, that's what people do when they're in hopsice anyway... they eventually get to a point where they've accepted death, and they stop accepting food and water and allow themselves to pass.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: He called me the tough guy. Not knowing or understanding my toughness. If, as he says, his Mom is laying in her poo, she is not being cared for.

I don't think the two are quite comparable but whatever that's for you to decide not me, I just thought it was callous.

I'm just glad right now I don't have to deal with the decisions that some have shown they have to, I don't envy anyone in their positions.

Sigmund Freud killed himself, overdosed. He had severe cancer mainly from smoking all those cigars. I believe it was mouth cancer and it was very painful. He feared death, was frightened about dying but even he recognized that somethings have to come to an end.

I am religious, and while I am personally against suicide, I don't think anyone has a right to make that choice for anyone. This is a personal choice all should have the right to make as an individual.

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 06-04-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I have no control over what others do. But I did not mention politics, religion, or include a link to anything related to him or his life and death. It was not intended to be political or religious. Your beef is with the first person to mention either of the above in this thread.

You're guilty.

That's right isn't it James?

------------------
Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 06-04-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: ...the fact that Neptune considers his own mother's life as not worth living. .

This is a lie that you will continue repeating as part of your attack of Neptune. It's an example of just how sorry of a person you are, and, in my honest opinion, how worthless you are as a human being. People like you undermine what it is to be human, and I refer to you as human only by virtue of your DNA, no more.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Not sure what you're meaning there, Ron.

Short or selective memory I guess. Oh well.

------------------
Ron

My mother in law just died this morning. Advanced stages of cancer, had two rounds of chemo therapy. Bed ridden. Heart broken as well as she lost her husband almost two years ago. She enjoyed every last moment of life. As well we did of her's.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: He was a good, decent man and human being, who believed passionately in his cause.

I expect you have absolutely nothing to back that up.
JazzMan, ...

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: It was the driver's full responsibility to conform to the laws of this land and society.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Without the letter of the law, we have nothing. It is that very thin construct that separates civilization from anarchy like Somalia.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Erring on the side of life, not death.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: The people that made the choice to go this route knew exactly what they were doing when they contacted him to help them accomplish this.

Oh, , , .
About Dr Death, as reported by the

quote Detroit Free Press Detroit Free Press report According to a report by the Detroit Free Press, 60% of the people who committed suicide with Kevorkian's help were not terminally ill. The report further asserted that Kevorkian's counseling was too brief (with at least 19 patients dying less than 24 hours after first meeting Kevorkian) and often lacked a psychiatric exam, even when Kevorkian had been alerted that the patient was unhappy for reasons other than their medical condition. The report also stated that Kevorkian failed to refer at least 17 patients to a pain specialist after they complained of chronic pain, and sometimes failed to obtain a complete medical record for his patients, with at least three autopsies of suicides Kevorkian had assisted with showing the person who committed suicide to have no physical sign of disease.

Why would people choose to die early ? Because they are not loved ? Or as Wichita thinks, ...

quote Originally posted by Wichita: I understand that many people are against assisted suicide or suicide in general because of religious reasons. But it's only because of religious reasons and it silly.

Silly he says. Heh. No regrets here. Sadness at the passing of a loved one ? Ehh, a little. We are happy. Happy for every last day we were able to spend together. Happy that the passing was so peaceful. In her home, surrounded by family (for weeks), surrounded by her Church family, cared for, loved. We are happy that she is with the Lord and reunited with her husband.
I can see why those not religious might want to end their life.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: This is a lie that you will continue repeating as part of your attack of Neptune. It's an example of just how sorry of a person you are, and, in my honest opinion, how worthless you are as a human being. People like you undermine what it is to be human, and I refer to you as human only by virtue of your DNA, no more.

All of that hate will give you wrinkles. But I forgive you.

BTW, my grandmother is in a similar position as Neptune's mother. She has a colostomy bag, can't remember anything, can't do much of anything anymore. She said that she wanted to die before grandpa because she couldn't live without him. He died last year. To add to that, my uncle, grandma's son died two months ago.

Instead of thinking her life is not worth living, my family put her up in the best assisted living center in her home town. It costs $4000 per month which is about $1000 more than my take home pay. I call her regularly and the family that is close visit her several times a week.

She knows she is loved. She has never once said anything about dying or killing herself. I would never dare use my grandmother as an example of someone that could use euthanasia like Neptune used his mother. It is not for anyone to judge if another person's life is not worth living, not even if it is your mother.

While you may hate me, I understand why. One day you might too.

I wonder if some here aren't thinking i'm just sitting back, wallowing in all my glory at the static I have caused......
Nothing could be further from the truth.

Faced with my own impending mortality & desisions I must direct to others, I couldn't care more! ;(

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 06-04-2011).]

I am interested in comparing opinions from your other thread. Would you kill your wife.
A death in the family has kept me from doing it.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 06-04-2011).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Would you kill your wife.

If she asked me too, and I felt she was of her right mind (meaning not drunk or vindictive)?
I think so.
But I would be very torn between what she wanted, and my own selfish need to keep her with me as long as I could & my desire to keep hope alive while stubornely believing the unbelievable.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 06-05-2011).]

You know, I click on these threads with the hopeful promise of intelligent, scintilating discussion of the days news topics in the forefront but yet again.......

quote Originally posted by jetman: You know, I click on these threads with the hopeful promise of intelligent, scintilating discussion of the days news topics in the forefront but yet again.......

In other words, you are a slow learner?

Maybe you'll find what you seek on a different forum, this is the OT area of a car forum...

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Honestly, I don't like this guy at all. Like many of the other sob stories here, I also had a grandmother with Alzheimers that I visited regularly, and watched her degenerate into someone who could no longer even leave her bed. She went from speaking fluent english, to resorting back to Spanish, and then babbling, and then not speaking at all. If someone wants to kill themselves, they're certainly able to do it simply by refusal to eat and drink unless an IV is forced into them. I can only think of rare cases where a person who WANTS to kill themselves is not physically able to in their own regard. I'm not cool with this guy assisting in suicides, I've watched a number of videos and nearly all the people I saw him help kill... were not crippled or parapalegic and could easily swallow some kind of drug or something. On a side note, if you look into the psychiatry of this, many of the people who are not terminally ill, but extremely depressed, end up living happy lives near the end. Once they adjust to the fact that they can no longer do things the SAME way they used to do them before, they end up becoming content again. When a person kills himself, or in particular, if it becomes routine that people who are unhappy with their lives due to physical or mental ailments to kill themselves, what does that do for all the other people who have recently fallen into this situation and need hope more than anything else. If it becomes "understood" that suicide is a very acceptable out, then how many great minds and people will kill themselves because they weren't given the proper moral and teaching to help them through a difficult and dark time in their lives? I think if you support a system where by doctors can assist in suicide, you're creating a cultural deviance that will only spread in the medical world. Doctors take an oath to sustain life at all costs, assisted suicide is hardly compatible with that. If you want to kill yourself... do it yourself. Essentially, that's what people do when they're in hopsice anyway... they eventually get to a point where they've accepted death, and they stop accepting food and water and allow themselves to pass.

Again! The only reason why people are against it is because of religious reasons "ONLY", end of story. We have no problem as a society to do the humane thing and euthanize pets and animals, but religious people are against it for suffering humans because they think their souls will go to hell or purgatory. It's so silly.

The reason why suffering people evoked the help of a physician to assist in a suicide is to make sure it is done as humanly, painlessly and correctly as possible.

Sure, somebody can pop a pill and overdose or blow themselves in the head with a bullet. But people who want to go would want to make sure it was done right. You can take a change by overdosing only to find out that you might still be living but even in a worse comatose or vegetation state.

The Hippocratic Oath doesn't specifically say that a doctor must keep people alive as long as possible. It is an oath to practice the art of medicine ethically and to respect the privacy of the patients.