quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I don't mean to hijack the thread here, but I purposely use the term "black" when I referr to our brothers of darker persuation because I abhore the term "African American." Every time I hear that, I imagine Jesse Jackson looking up at me (I'm 6'3") and saying "We are African first, and American second..." and that infuriates me. So I purposely use the term "black." There was a period there, perhaps even just 5-6 years ago where it was almost "shocking" if I used the term black. When I would refer to one of my friends, or use the term to denote a person's physical characteristics when I would be in a conversation where someone forgot a person's name and I would be explaining what the person looked like... there was always a sense of uneasyness by everyone who I talked to whenever I used the word "black." It always drove me nuts... I am happy to see that over the past few years, it's become much more accepting and "normal" to use the term "black", and that I see fewer and fewer people using the term "African American." So I'm just curious... in Canada, do people refer to themselves as black, or "African Canadian?"

QFT.

Whenever I hear the term 'African American', I have to wonder if Teresa Heinz Kerry checks that box.....

IMHO, persons who have been born and raised in the USA should ONLY be referred to as 'Americans'. Anything else IS racist, and serves only to create a divide where none need exist. Not only that, for those that are not pigment-challenged, but who are from, say, Trinidad, or Jamaica, calling them 'African-American' is inaccurate at best.

Please, let's be 'Americans'. Get rid of the PC 'pre-qualifiers'. My family may have German 'roots', but I certainly don't call myself 'German-American'. If I considered myself 'German-American', it would be better to return to the land of my forefathers, and pledge allegiance to only one country. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

lol I do the same thing, I refuse to say African-American. For one it's too long to say or type. The term black is no more offensive than white. I sometimes find myself saying editing blacks to black folks. Because I know "blacks" would be especially taken the wrong way, of course I don't think "whites" would be much of a shock to anyone.
I know I get odd looks because I have a bit of a Chicago accent, and that is almost as bad as a southern accent when you say "the black guy".
I don't know why we let jerks take ownership of our language.

I say black or white, but I do not say yellow or red man..........I think it is becouse i call myself white and I hear black people call themselves black, but I never hear asians call themselves yellow or american indians call themselves 'red men'.

Or as a discription?

"This white boy don't play that game."
"That black guy helped me build it."
"You know that yellow guy at work?"
"That red guy across the street has a nice car."

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Yup. If it's good enough for Fox, it's good enough for me.

quote Originally posted by TiredGXP: Good old Fox

LOL.

Boonie, The only time I use the term "African-American" is either in an academic/intellectual context, in sociologically-based discussions where the term is appropriately used or on official documents that ask for it. As far as I'm concerned, I'm a Man first. a Black man second and it doesn't bother me in the least when others refer to me as such.

I don't know any White folks that refer to themselves as Caucasian/Anglo-Saxon/etc exclusively either.

"There is a yellow one that won't
Accept the black one
That won't accept the red one
That won't accept the white one

Different strokes for different folks"

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 05-04-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I say black or white, but I do not say yellow or red man..........I think it is becouse i call myself white and I hear black people call themselves black, but I never hear asians call themselves yellow or american indians call themselves 'red men'. Or as a discription? "This white boy don't play that game." "That black guy helped me build it." "You know that yellow guy at work?" "That red guy across the street has a nice car."

That's a good point. I will start referring to Asians as yellow
You realize of course that some 'Asians' are offended if you call them Asian because they are technically 'Pacific Islander'. And of course it used to be Oriental.
And then there's some black folks who look Asian or Hispanic, or Hispanics who look maybe Middle Eastern, and so on and so on.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: That's a good point. I will start referring to Asians as yellow You realize of course that some 'Asians' are offended if you call them Asian because they are technically 'Pacific Islander'. And of course it used to be Oriental. And then there's some black folks who look Asian or Hispanic, or Hispanics who look maybe Middle Eastern, and so on and so on.

Yeah, I guess "That guy" should be good enough to discribe anyone......maybe without malace of forethought we just keep right on unintentionally supporting the division between the races.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: That's a good point. I will start referring to Asians as yellow You realize of course that some 'Asians' are offended if you call them Asian because they are technically 'Pacific Islander'. And of course it used to be Oriental. And then there's some black folks who look Asian or Hispanic, or Hispanics who look maybe Middle Eastern, and so on and so on.

People are Asian.
Furniture is Oriental.

As for "African-American" - that term was an epic failure when it was conceived. How about Caucasians citizens of America who are of African descent? Just let them try and call themselves African-American and see what kind of backlash there is.

"African-American" = Black in accepted usage, which is stupid because not all Africans are black and not all black people came from Africa. (although technically I guess the entire human race came from there or the Middle East to begin with)

quote Originally posted by Formula88: People are Asian. Furniture is Oriental.

Tell that to my Grandmother. It was commonly used in that context in her day. In fact, I think it was used on government forms until recently. Today some Asian folks would get really offended even if you referred to a rug as Oriental. Of course oriental only means from the East.
Of course people are Scottish, and beverages are Scotch. I've heard this mistake made as well, but never heard anyone get offended by it.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Yeah, I guess "That guy" should be good enough to discribe anyone......maybe without malace of forethought we just keep right on unintentionally supporting the division between the races.

Wrong. .
"We are looking for "that guy" that robbed the liquor store". If he is black, white, mexican, arab, I have noticed that the local news does not mention race, even with a proximity of thought. That guy can describe everyone.

Some of you guys here are hypocrites! Why is it that Caucasians are the only group of people that will be upset when another group decides to name or call themselves?

Caucasians don't have an issues when other whites decides to use Italian American, Irish American, and/or Jewish American. However, God forbid when a black person uses the term "African American." Is it because, "Africa is in front of American? Caucasians don't seem to be all upset when Mexican American, or Native American term is being used. Why is that?

Why do those with Jewish last names change when arrive to America? It wasn't because of their last name being hard to pronounce? Or could it be was because, some Caucasians here in America would ride the horse of ignorance?

The same rings true with President Obama's birth certificate. He will no doubt have to go from door-to-door with the original in hand. LOL. Some of you guys here are truly acting stupidly.

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: Boonie, The only time I use the term "African-American" is either in an academic/intellectual context, in sociologically-based discussions where the term is appropriately used or on official documents that ask for it. As far as I'm concerned, I'm a Man first. a Black man second and it doesn't bother me in the least when others refer to me as such. I don't know any White folks that refer to themselves as Caucasian/Anglo-Saxon/etc exclusively either. "There is a yellow one that won't Accept the black one That won't accept the red one That won't accept the white one Different strokes for different folks"

So on and so on and scooby-dooby-doo.

Madcurl, it might make you feel better if you read my post above, and didn't generalize. I don't like it when any honkeys do it either. IMO people who refer to themselves as Irish-American or Italian-American tend to be assholes. They need something to identify as or with.

I wouldn't lump Native American in there either, as it is not hyphenated and has a different meaning.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Some of you guys here are hypocrites! Why is it that Caucasians are the only group of people that will be upset when another group decides to name or call themselves? Caucasians don't have an issues when other whites decides to use Italian American, Irish American, and/or Jewish American. However, God forbid when a black person uses the term "African American." Is it because, "Africa is in front of American? Caucasians don't seem to be all upset when Mexican American, or Native American term is being used. Why is that? Why do those with Jewish last names change when arrive to America? It wasn't because of their last name being hard to pronounce? Or could it be was because, some Caucasians here in America would ride the horse of ignorance? The same rings true with President Obama's birth certificate. He will no doubt have to go from door-to-door with the original in hand. LOL. Some of you guys here are truly acting stupidly.

Madcurl,

Honestly, I dislike so much people who angle their responses within the cloud of racism! If you want to go there, remember Obama is 1/2 Caucasian! So your rejoinder concerning his gene-pool and that association to a birth certificate, because his father was from Africa, is asinine. All that many American's (and Trump in particular) were asking, is to show the birth certificate. No more, no less. Please try and leave alone labels in describing people. It is tawdry and above you................I think

Cordially,
Kevin

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Tell that to my Grandmother. It was commonly used in that context in her day. In fact, I think it was used on government forms until recently. Today some Asian folks would get really offended even if you referred to a rug as Oriental. Of course oriental only means from the East. Of course people are Scottish, and beverages are Scotch. I've heard this mistake made as well, but never heard anyone get offended by it.

That's what a Korean-American friend of mine told me. Must be a generational dialect change, then.

Edit: Had to make sure to use the proper "Korean-American" term so not to offend anyone.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 05-04-2011).]

quote Originally posted by tbone42: So on and so on and scooby-dooby-doo.

Yeah, we're stuck in the 60's!!

quote Originally posted by Formula88: That's what a Korean-American friend of mine told me. Must be a generational dialect change, then. Edit: Had to make sure to use the proper "Korean-American" term so not to offend anyone.

Ya, it is the same generational change as negro, colored, black, African-American, not everyone who used negro, or colored, used it in a hateful way.
People give power to the words. The words are used in a hateful manner and they want to get rid of the words. Same mentality as gun control I guess.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Some of you guys here are hypocrites! Why is it that Caucasians are the only group of people that will be upset when another group decides to name or call themselves? Caucasians don't have an issues when other whites decides to use Italian American, Irish American, and/or Jewish American. However, God forbid when a black person uses the term "African American." Is it because, "Africa is in front of American? Caucasians don't seem to be all upset when Mexican American, or Native American term is being used. Why is that? Why do those with Jewish last names change when arrive to America? It wasn't because of their last name being hard to pronounce? Or could it be was because, some Caucasians here in America would ride the horse of ignorance? The same rings true with President Obama's birth certificate. He will no doubt have to go from door-to-door with the original in hand. LOL. Some of you guys here are truly acting stupidly.

I think you're trying to hard to be offended.
The difference is "African-American" does not refer to Americans of African descent - it specifically refers to blacks.
Italian-American refers to Americans of Italian descent. Same for the others you mentioned. Only African-American is special in that it doesn't refer to Americans specifically decended from Africa, but only Americans of a certain ethnic group, who may or may not have African ancestors.

It never ceases to amaze me that whenever a Caucasian has a disagreement with a person of color - it's automatically assumed it MUST be racism.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Madcurl, it might make you feel better if you read my post above, and didn't generalize. I don't like it when any honkeys do it either. IMO people who refer to themselves as Irish-American or Italian-American tend to be assholes. They need something to identify as or with. I wouldn't lump Native American in there either, as it is not hyphenated and has a different meaning.

My post wasn't directed towards you, but only to those who make every excuse known to mankind towards others using the word African American for when Whites use Italian or Irish nobody makes a big deal regarding it. However, when a black person uses "African" in front of American-all of of sudden it become an issue like, "what are you trying to say?" "You not american or something?" "Are you saying you're African first and American last?"

Some people love to apply rules to others, but rarely do they apply the rules to themselves. It's they're way of making others less important. They justify these excuses with long drawn out discussions (such as is the case here on Pennock's O/T section).

quote Originally posted by madcurl: My post wasn't directed towards you, but only to those who make every excuse known to mankind towards others using the word African American for when Whites use Italian or Irish nobody makes a big deal regarding it. However, when a black person uses "African" in front of American-all of of sudden it become an issue like, "what are you trying to say?" "You not american or something?" "Are you saying you're African first and American last?" Some people love to apply rules to others, but rarely do they apply the rules to themselves. It's they're way of making others less important. They justify these excuses with long drawn out discussions (such as is the case here on Pennock's O/T section).

I hear what you're saying, but you just said Caucasians which includes me. Also, I'm sure there are some Asian, Hispanic, maybe even Kenyans or Ghanians, etc, who are hypocritical about this as well. I know you might have just replied hastily, but it's one of those super sticky topics that requires careful phrasing.

I think I should be referred to as "European-American" from here on out. My ancestors are from Europe, and it will insult me if, when describing me you didn't include my heritage.

My wife is more confusing though.

She's Irish-American, and American-Indian (as it should properly be said)

quote Caucasians don't have an issues when other whites decides to use Italian American, Irish American, and/or Jewish American. However, God forbid when a black person uses the term "African American." Is it because, "Africa is in front of American? Caucasians don't seem to be all upset when Mexican American, or Native American term is being used. Why is that?

Says who? I have had a problem with putting America second from the beginning. My belief is that people that hide behind such titles are ignorant, or scared. They either don't put America first, or are ignorant to how language works.

And American-Indians, or "Native Americans" and you so racially put it are one of the few groups in this argument that could rightfully put America second, note that they don't.

Once again, I find the term Caucasian as you put it to be racist. It offends me that you judge people by the color of their skin.

Brad

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Talk is cheap. Can you find on Pennock's were a bunch of idiopathic morons are making a big deal with using the word Italian/Irish American? I rest my case.

I doubt I can find anyone making a big deal out of it. I don't see anyone here making a big deal out of using the term African-American, except you.
I explained why I think the term was badly chosen. If that's what a specific ethnic group wishes to be called, fine. It doesn't change the fact that the term is a misnomer.

I've not encountered many idiopathic morons on this forum, but there are a lot of chronic ones.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: LOL.

Hey, Curl. That's not Fox NEWS, it's the local Fox station in Sacramento.

FAIL.

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: And American-Indians, or "Native Americans" and you so racially put it are one of the few groups in this argument that could rightfully put America second, note that they don't. Brad

Holy crap. I thought Native American was the current accepted term. American Indian sounds worse to me as it was because some honkeys thought they were the same as the other brown people they knew. Started reading the Wikipedia entry for Native American name controversy. God what a mess. I think from now on I will just refer to everyone as "that ******* ".

quote Originally posted by fierobear: They have black people in Canada?

Less than 1%, so I've been told.

(sorry Newf... just pushing buttons... hahah)

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I say black or white, but I do not say yellow or red man..........I think it is becouse i call myself white and I hear black people call themselves black, but I never hear asians call themselves yellow or american indians call themselves 'red men'. Or as a discription? "This white boy don't play that game." "That black guy helped me build it." "You know that yellow guy at work?" "That red guy across the street has a nice car."

The only REAL red men I know down here in South Florida are the people of Irish descent who go to the beach and don't put on sun-block.

The Seminoles and Miccosukki Indians down here even laugh at them.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Some of you guys here are hypocrites! Why is it that Caucasians are the only group of people that will be upset when another group decides to name or call themselves? Caucasians don't have an issues when other whites decides to use Italian American, Irish American, and/or Jewish American. However, God forbid when a black person uses the term "African American." Is it because, "Africa is in front of American? Caucasians don't seem to be all upset when Mexican American, or Native American term is being used. Why is that?

I don't know what it's like where you live... but I've never heard of any white person, or white immigrant refer to themselves as Italian-American, or anything like that. Seriously... never heard of it.

Also, I'd never want anyone to refer to me as a Euro-Hispanic-American... because that's just absolutely ridiculous...

Scottzilla in case you don't know honky IS a derrogatory term, if you want to use a lesser word use crackers.

LOL but I can say it cuz I am one right?
Honkey originally referred to people of Hungarian descent, where as cracker well that has a darker story. I think honkey is less offensive.

And I have heard people refer to themselves as Italian-American or Irish-American.
These are all not too far from where I live.
http://irish-american.org/
http://www.niashf.org/
http://www.polish.org/

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I don't know what it's like where you live... but I've never heard of any white person, or white immigrant refer to themselves as Italian-American, or anything like that. Seriously... never heard of it.

I hear it all of the time.



As I stated earlier, are Caucasian up in arms over Italian using it in front of American? No.

Is is a big deal to a black person? No.

Is it a big deal to some Caucasian when a black person places African in front? Yes. That is why there's 9-pages here.

This crap happens on FOX regularly. Way too often to be simple error. This doesn't happen to professionals. When a republican congressman was caught with his pants down and young boys involved, FOX had a big (D) beside his name. They do every partisan thing they can, like the enhancing of crowd photos for Sarah Palin. Funny how these mistakes ALWAYS only benefit the GOP.

[This message has been edited by weaselbeak (edited 05-05-2011).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Dude, get some rest. You've been played.

It says "Fox 40". In the banner, it says "Fox 40.com". Christ, man, can't you READ?

Here is their web site: http://www.fox40.com/

The station is KTXL, Sacramento, CA. Although a Fox network affiliate, the graphic you showed is from their LOCAL NEWS.

You are pushing a bullshit position, Curl. Give up.

By the way, several networks made flubs (yeah, including Fox)

quote Originally posted by fierobear: By the way, several networks made flubs (yeah, including Fox)

Dude, channel 40 is a Fox affiliation. Quite spiking the ball, hehe.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 05-05-2011).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Dude, channel 40 is a Fox affiliation. Quite trying spike the ball, hehe.

Yes, it is an affiliate. That does NOT mean it is a Fox NEWS mistake, it's a LOCAL STATION. That is a FACT. The graphic in the picture you posted is from a LOCAL station's LOCAL news broadcast, that is a FACT. It didn't originate in Fox News headquarters, which is in New York, not Sacramento. Another FACT.

Quit pushing bullshit over facts just because it is what you want to believe. Unless you aren't smart enough to know the difference, then you have my pity.

I was thinking about that old Startrek episode "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", where one alien who was split down the middle of his body with one side black & one side white. He was persueing another alien becouse he was a bad guy.
Bad?
Yeah, he was black & white on the WRONG sides of his body.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...our_Last_Battlefield

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Yes, it is an affiliate. That does NOT mean it is a Fox NEWS mistake, it's a LOCAL STATION. That is a FACT. The graphic in the picture you posted is from a LOCAL station's LOCAL news broadcast, that is a FACT. It didn't originate in Fox News headquarters, which is in New York, not Sacramento. Another FACT. Quit pushing bullshit over facts just because it is what you want to believe. Unless you aren't smart enough to know the difference, then you have my pity.

Dude, didn't you just admitted that "FOX" news has made the mistake too?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: By the way, several networks made flubs (yeah, including Fox)

Dude, take 2-Aleve pills and seriously move away from the computer.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Dude, didn't you just admitted that "FOX" news has made the mistake too?

I posted a video where SEVERAL networks and TV stations made the mistake. So what? It doesn't change the fact that you were WRONG about the local TV station mistake in that picture. How about YOU admit you screwed up?

Here it from an NBC affiliate, which is just local news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRk2yV080t4

Here it is from a guy STANDING NEXT TO Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watc...bULc&feature=related

CNN
http://www.youtube.com/watc...0-is&feature=related

PMSNBC
http://www.youtube.com/watc...0-is&feature=related

ABC
http://www.youtube.com/watc...0rc4&feature=related

Ted Kennedy
http://www.youtube.com/watc..._jos&feature=related

Seems to be a common mistake, not just on Fox.

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 05-05-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Holy crap. I thought Native American was the current accepted term.

While I'm not Indian myself, I have lived and traveled among American Indian people all my life. In fact, this weekend my wife (also non-Indian) and I will be selling Indian-made jewelry, arts, and crafts as an invited vendor at a local Pow Wow.

When speaking about the broad grouping beyond their own Nation, Pueblo, Tribe, or Band, I have always heard the elders use the term "Indian people" exclusively, and I tend to defer to their authority. That said, when referring to them individually most Indian people highly prefer that you use the specific term that applies to their own Nation, Pueblo, Tribe, or Band ... e.g. Cherokee, Choctaw, Comanche, Cheyenne, Lakota (Sioux), Navajo, Chiricahua (Apache), Hopi, Zuni, etc. When you know the tribal affiliation or ancestry, that is the preferred term to use.

In general, "American Indian" is probably the most formal and most widely accepted term. Less formally, "Indian" is generally preferred in the west (west of the Mississippi River), while "Native American" has come into widespread use in the eastern half of the country since the 1960s. Some are going to be offended whatever term you use, but most Indian people will respond to either if you are sincere and polite about it.

Some terms that may be considered highly offensive these days include: "redskin," "squaw," "Indian princess" (the inverse stereotype from squaw), and "Chief" (especially when used to address someone). As usual, some are more sensitive to these terms than others.

Incidentally, among many Indian people it is considered rude to address an elder by name, but "Grandmother" or "Grandfather" (regardless of age), which connotes wisdom, is generally considered a term of respect and is almost always acceptable. YMMV.


Edit: We now return you to the usual partisan bickering ...

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-05-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: These days some terms are generally considered highly offensive: "redskin," "squaw," "Indian princess" (the inverse stereotype from squaw), and "Chief" (especially when used to address someone). As usual, some are more sensitive to these terms than others.

Heh ... (though initially reported by the Washington Post) it is being considered offensive that Bin Laden's security code name was Geronimo.