quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Being called a racist is a hard thing to defend.

Eh, I just say, "No i'm not."
Becouse only I can ever really know for sure.

All anyone can really say is, "I think you are a racist."
"Thinking" don't make it so, though.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 04-29-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Eh, I just say, "No i'm not." Becouse only I can ever really know for sure. All anyone can really say is, "I think you are a racist." "Thinking" don't make it so, though.

That's very true, but to me it's along the same lines as being called a thief, or a liar. You know, it just eats at me, I can't fathom how people can live thinking everyone else believes like that, so much hate.

Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: That's very true, but to me it's along the same lines as being called a thief, or a liar. You know, it just eats at me, I can't fathom how people can live thinking everyone else believes like that, so much hate. Brad

Me too, I dislike being called derogatory names when people don't have the balls or even attempt to back it up.

I think you are correct it shows a level of hate and goes to ones character, or sometimes people do so out of sheer frustration or anger.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 04-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: In my unique posistion (work) I have heard atlot of black people say that is EXACTLY why they voted for him. They said as a black person it was thier obligation to support at least what it ment to have a black man in that office, even if they could not support the man himself or his ideas. At worst, it would be a start in the right direction. Maybe a young black kid could look at it and say, "Wow, I really CAN be anything I want to be!" And for the first time in U.S. history, it would be TRUE for him, and not just a saying, with it's hidden cavets. It might just keep more kids in school, knowing that you really CAN shoot for the stars, no matter what color you are. That in itself would be worth it, keeping more kids in school, that might have otherwise felt trapped with what & where they are and just give up. I can understand the reasoning behind that. It was a chance for a people who had seen the worst history has to offer to actually change the way their story will be told in the future. In that sense, it is a far better reason then some reasons I have heard for why some vote for who they do.

So that's the friendly "ethnic pride" version of racism?

People complain it's racist to not like Obama because he's black.
But it's fine to like him only because he's black.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: So that's the friendly "ethnic pride" version of racism? People complain it's racist to not like Obama because he's black. But it's fine to like him only because he's black.

I believe racism more about hate and intolerance than like and feeling a sense of commonality.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: In my unique posistion (work) I have heard atlot of black people say that is EXACTLY why they voted for him. They said as a black person it was thier obligation to support at least what it ment to have a black man in that office, even if they could not support the man himself or his ideas. At worst, it would be a start in the right direction. Maybe a young black kid could look at it and say, "Wow, I really CAN be anything I want to be!" And for the first time in U.S. history, it would be TRUE for him, and not just a saying, with it's hidden cavets. It might just keep more kids in school, knowing that you really CAN shoot for the stars, no matter what color you are. That in itself would be worth it, keeping more kids in school, that might have otherwise felt trapped with what & where they are and just give up. I can understand the reasoning behind that. It was a chance for a people who had seen the worst history has to offer to actually change the way their story will be told in the future. In that sense, it is a far better reason then some reasons I have heard for why some vote for who they do.

Agreed. Now the question is...will they vote for him again?

quote Originally posted by newf: Me too, I dislike being called derogatory names when people don't have the balls or even attempt to back it up. I think you are correct it shows a level of hate and goes to ones character, or sometimes people do so out of sheer frustration or anger.

Are you saying someone has said something to you in the past that they couldn't back up? Would they not answer your questions? Did they call you names, or ask you questions that there was no way to answer without looking like a fool? I hate those people man.
Those people have poor character and they are probably racist too!

I think it comes more from them being tired of seeing a few people verbally "bully" other members of the forum, whether it's intentional or not. Probably just lashing out because they are tired of some double standard or something.
Or they are probably just mad, and have no class.

Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Are you saying someone has said something to you in the past that they couldn't back up? Brad

Yes, you have.

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Would they not answer your questions? Brad

Yes, you have.

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Did they call you names? Brad

Yes, you have.

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Did they call ask you questions that there was no way to answer without looking like a fool? Brad

Depends on peoples definition of what a fool is. I usually don't bother answering such quesions if I feel it's some kind of "entrapment" but will normally answer a regular direct question.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 04-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Soooo, your not racist because your best friend/spouse is (insert here.) Is that what you are saying? Being called a racist is a hard thing to defend. And once someone calls, or infers it, it causes immediate character damage. Any fight to defend themselves is met with sarcasm, and hate. You don't have to outright say it, it's read into things you type, and it causes real damage later on. Brad

Quite true. As is being associated with terrorists simply because of one's faith or being associated with ideological nutjobs simply because of one's political affiliation. It's frustrating and almost impossible to defend, not unlike the old "When did you stop beating your wife" question. How does one disprove a negative?

However, the "Some of my best friends are...." line (more often than not followed up by a "but") has been used for decades as a manner of a "get out of jail free" card in the hopes of getting absolution for statements made to the contrary or justification for alternative statements. I would hazard a guess that any undergraduate sociology or psychology student would confirm that. The reason the statement is usually met with either derision or laughter in some circles is it's been utilized so often, usually to the detriment of the group being discussed. As I stated previously, it's a time-honored and well-worn cliche.

Hypothetical....I could state that a couple of my best friends are Two Fat Guys from Missouri as a way to insulate myself from continuing to state what I don't like about Fat Guys from Missouri.

As far as what you read into my comments when I encounter such statements, I can't speak to that as your perception is something over which I have absolutely no control. However, PFF is nothing if not a forum in which opinions are freely and openly expressed. It has been my experience that statements can and have been made here with the occasional disregard for the impact those statements make....yet that doesn't seem to impede their being expressed. As I was told before in a thread when I was being prompted into defending an entire faith, "Don't be so thin skinned. If it doesn't apply to you personally, state your individual case and move on....or don't respond at all."

Your call.

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 05-01-2011).]

quote Originally posted by newf: I believe racism more about hate and intolerance than like and feeling a sense of commonality.

So it's ok if I only vote for white candidates because I like them better than blacks? Or if I only hire whites because I like them better? I have more in common with them. I don't like rap music for instance. (I realize that rap music is not only liked by black people that is my point.)

Ok, we're talking about racism against Obama. I'm white and don't like him because of his policies. My boss is black and doesn't like him in office because he's black. What's that say?

He says there's not been enough time lapsed since the civil rights movement, and that there should have been atleast 1 more generation before electing a black man into office, that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are still too powerful a force in black "reconciliation" movement as well. This is coming from a black guy.

What say you?

Edit to add: My boss says that since he's a minority he doesn't have to worry about affirmative action and can hire truly based on performance and ability without having to worry about having a certain number of minorities on payroll.

[This message has been edited by Rallaster (edited 04-30-2011).]

I bet some would call him an uncle tom. He's racist too and self-loathing, etc.

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: "Some of my best friends are...."

It's companion is, "He's one of the good ones." On several occasions I heard my own grandfather (a politely racist southern gentleman born in the late 1800s) use that expression to excuse saying something favorable about a black person he knew and respected; it was intended as a compliment.

These phrases are often used with intended sincerity, and without cynicism. Usually, though, they are a form of self deception, or perhaps even an expression of repressed personal aspiration.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: I bet some would call him an uncle tom. He's racist too and self-loathing, etc.

I call him a socialist. Does that make me racist?

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: So it's ok if I only vote for white candidates because I like them better than blacks? Or if I only hire whites because I like them better? I have more in common with them. I don't like rap music for instance. (I realize that rap music is not only liked by black people that is my point.)

People vote and hire for all kinds of reasons but my point was that being racist usually involves hate not like.

Newf, I think it's two sides of the same coin. If one said one would "just feel more comfortable" with a white man in the white house how would that not be racist? You know not saying non-whites are bad, just that one prefers whites. So not racist.

quote Originally posted by newf: People vote and hire for all kinds of reasons but my point was that being racist usually involves hate not like.

I tend to agree that 'hate' is the 'hard core definition' but i think a biased 'preference' for a particular race could be considered racism in spirit.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Newf, I think it's two sides of the same coin. If one said one would "just feel more comfortable" with a white man in the white house how would that not be racist? You know not saying non-whites are bad, just that one prefers whites. So not racist.

I'm not totally disagreeing but like I said people vote for all kinds of reasons, it doesn't mean they are the best reasons.

For example: If someone was running for President and they went to the same high school as you did or lived on the same street as you did, you don't think you would be more apt to vote for them because you felt some sort of kinship? Should that be THE reason one votes for someone? Not in my mind but I suspect most would do it.
My point is that IMO racism comes from a feeling of hate not like.

In terms of Obama and black people supporting him just cause he is black I would submit that like with many many issues it's not (pardon the pun here) black and white, as this is the first ever black president and the history of black people in America must be taken into account IMO.
If Hillary had been the candidate I would think many woman would have voted for her just because she was female, there is some kind of glass ceiling breaking that has to be taken into account with such matters as wewll IMO.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 04-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: Ok, we're talking about racism against Obama. I'm white and don't like him because of his policies. My boss is black and doesn't like him in office because he's black. What's that say? He says there's not been enough time lapsed since the civil rights movement, and that there should have been atleast 1 more generation before electing a black man into office, that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are still too powerful a force in black "reconciliation" movement as well. This is coming from a black guy. What say you? Edit to add: My boss says that since he's a minority he doesn't have to worry about affirmative action and can hire truly based on performance and ability without having to worry about having a certain number of minorities on payroll.

I would say that he's simply an example of how the African-American community is just as diverse as any other in our society, despite popular opinions to the contrary. In very basic terms, there is no single spokesperson or ideological approach that encompasses the variety of thought which exists within the Black diaspora, any more than there is a single White man that speaks for the whole of the White community. Barack Obama represents those who follow his approach just as much as Alan Keyes represents those who follow his, Colin Powell represents those that follow his....ad nauseum. You get my point, I'm sure.

Your boss isn't alone in his views....nor should anyone expect him to be. The Black community is no more a monolith than any other.

As a sidebar, no one can sincerely deny that Obama received the lion's share of the Black vote. However, that demographic alone wasn't nearly enough to insure his election. He won with the support of the Black community and a rather large swatch of the rest of the voting populace while Jesse Jackson couldn't make the grade with, by and large, the same degree of support within the Black community. We're talking apples and oranges here....different men, different approaches, different histories and completely different times historically. I've heard time and time again how Powell would've won by a landslide had he chosen to run and, in that event, it's likely he would've received the bulk of the minority vote as well. But, again, that would not have been sufficient to put him over the top.

If it takes a village to raise a child, it most certainly takes a majority of the eligible voting base to elect a president.

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 04-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: It's companion is, "He's one of the good ones." On several occasions I heard my own grandfather (a politely racist southern gentleman born in the late 1800s) use that expression to excuse saying something favorable about a black person he knew and respected; it was intended as a compliment. These phrases are often used with intended sincerity, and without cynicism. Usually, though, they are a form of self deception, or perhaps even an expression of repressed personal aspiration.

How about this?

"I don't give a s*** about skin color. Just show me what kind of person you are."

How's that work?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: How's that work?

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

A homeless Black guy was panhandling for spare change on a street corner just outside the Harvard Commons.

He approached a well-dressed professorial type, held out his hand and said...
"Mister, do you have a dollar for a cup of coffee?"

The academic looked the homeless man up and down and replied...
"Ah...it's time for a homily. Neither a borrower nor a lender be....Shakespeare."

The homeless man stood to his full height, looked the professor in the eye and said......

"Kiss my ass......James Baldwin!"

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 05-01-2011).]

Which reminds me of a candidate for the most ironic graffito ever, which I saw on a college bathroom wall many years ago:

James Baldwin eats watermelon!

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-02-2011).]

quote Originally posted by newf: I believe racism more about hate and intolerance than like and feeling a sense of commonality.

Do you believe someone chanting "White Power!" and telling you to vote for the white candidate because they're white is racist or promoting a sense of commonality?
I believe racism is judging a person solely by the color of their skin. I don't care if it's a favorable or unfavorable judgement.

Now isn't that something. Judging by some of the excuses presented here you'd think some of you people are offsprings from those from the past.


"Harvard had asked the Immigration and Naturalization Service to delay a request by Barack Hussein Obama Sr. to extend his stay in the U.S., "until they decided what action they could take in order to get rid of him," immigration official M.F. McKeon wrote in a June 1964 memo."


An earlier INS memo from McKeon said that while the elder Obama had passed his exams and was entitled on academic grounds to stay and complete his thesis, the school was going to try and "cook something up to ease him out."

"They are planning on telling him that they will not give him any money, and that he had better return to Kenya and prepare his thesis at home," the memo stated.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/...ama_s_father_harvard


Leave to Pennock's stupid right-wingers (whatever that means-stupid is stupid) members to "cook-up" an excuse regarding Present's Obama birth certificate." Truly, some of you guys are living in the past. How many pages is this now?

Here is Barrack Hussein Obama Sr.'s immigration file. You can see the reasons why they wouldn't give him any more money and more here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/5...-Sr-Immigration-File

And from your article.

quote In 1961, while he was an undergraduate student at the University of Hawaii, the school's foreign student adviser called an immigration official and said Obama had recently married Stanley Ann Dunham — the president's mother — despite already having a wife in Kenya. According to a memo written by an INS official in Honolulu, the adviser said Obama had been "running around with several girls since he first arrived here and last summer she cautioned him about his playboy ways." Obama told the adviser that he had divorced his wife in Kenya. He told the president's mother the same thing, though she would later learn it was a lie. Obama worked for an oil company and as a government economist after returning to Africa, but his personal and professional life would later deteriorate. He died in a car crash in 1982, when the future president was 21 and a student at Columbia University.

Those were different times back then. They didn't like anyone who was a "player".

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 04-30-2011).]

I guess we can finally put this to rest.

Fox News: Expert Says Obama Birth Certificate Is Legit
http://www.theblaze.com/sto...ertificate-is-legit/
Expert: No Doubt Obama's Birth Certificate Is Legit
http://www.foxnews.com/poli...h-certificate-legit/

quote It didn’t take long for some of President Obama’s doubters to claim the long-awaited birth certificate posted online by the White House on Wednesday had been altered or might be a fake. But a leading software expert says there’s no doubt about its authenticity, and he dismisses claims of fraud as flat-out wrong. The doubters have latched onto the idea that Adobe Illustrator — the premier program for computer graphic artists — “reveals” evidence of document manipulation in the Obama birth certificate. They note Illustrator reveals nine separate layers of the document, and claim it’s “proof” the file has been altered. But that’s not so, says Jean-Claude Tremblay, a leading software trainer and Adobe-certified expert, who has years of experience working with and teaching Adobe Illustrator. “You should not be so suspicious about this,” Tremblay told FoxNews.com, dismissing the allegations. He said the layers cited by doubters are evidence of the use of common, off-the-shelf scanning software — not evidence of a forgery. “I have seen a lot of illustrator documents that come from photos and contain those kind of clippings—and it looks exactly like this,” he said. Tremblay explained that the scanner optical character recognition (OCR) software attempts to translate characters or words in a photograph into text. He said the layers cited by the doubters shows that software at work – and nothing more. “When you open it in Illustrator it looks like layers, but it doesn’t look like someone built it from scratch. If someone made a fake it wouldn’t look like this,” he said.“Some scanning software is trying to separate the background and the text and splitting element into layers and parts of layers.” Tremblay also said that during the scanning process, instances where the software was unable to separate text fully from background led to the creation of a separate layer within the document. This could be places where a signature runs over the line of background, or typed characters touch the internal border of the document. “I know that you can scan a document from a scanner most of the time it will appear as one piece, but that doesn’t mean that there’s no software that’s doing this kind of stuff,” he said, adding that it’s really quite common. “I’d be more afraid it’d be fake if it was one in piece. It would be harder to check if it’s a good one if it’s a fake,” Tremblay said.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 05-01-2011).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: I guess we can finally put this to rest. Fox News: Expert Says Obama Birth Certificate Is Legit http://www.theblaze.com/sto...ertificate-is-legit/ Expert: No Doubt Obama's Birth Certificate Is Legit http://www.foxnews.com/poli...h-certificate-legit/

Yup. If it's good enough for Fox, it's good enough for me.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Yup. If it's good enough for Fox, it's good enough for me.

quote Originally posted by TiredGXP:

*saved* New Desktop!

EDIT wrong thread lol

[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 05-02-2011).]

just got this in an email:
Obama was born in a hospital that didn't exist and his father was born in a country that didn't exist.
Whoever was in charge of forging the BC should have done a little more research.
The Birth certificate released the other day states that Obama was born August 4, 1961, and states that his father,then age 25, was born in Kenya.

PROBLEM: Kenya did not become the independent State of Kenya until 1963. In 1961 it was still known as British East Africa Protectorate. Look it up; https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

How was Barack Obama Sr. born in a country that did not exist until 27 years AFTER his birth?


The Birth Certificate was produced by the Kapi'Olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital.

PROBLEM: This Hospital did NOT exist until 1978, when it was formed by the merger of Kaui'keolani Childrens Hospital and Kapi'olani Maternity Home. Look it up yourself at http://www.kapiolani.org/wo...bout-us/default.aspx

How did Obama obtain a Certificate of Live Birth from a Hospital that did not exist until 17 years AFTER his birth?

How much of our taxpayer money was spent to bribe someone to forge this phony "certificate"?
We know he spent over $2 million avoiding the issue. Why, if it was redily available?
What about his father being a British subject?
What about him spending his youth in Indonesia as an Indonesian citizen?

Just askin. You should be too.

Here's the BC:
http://blogs.forbes.com/mar...-by-the-white-house/

More things to ponder about the birth certificate. Obama'a certificate numbers are higher than babies born after him???
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=292717

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Yup. If it's good enough for Fox, it's good enough for me.

Not so fast.

He still does not meet the definition of "Natural Born*" and does not clearly dispel the problems stated above me.(higher number then people after him in a numerical sequence, and country and hospital issues) Maybe i stand to the right of Bear.

The legal term is preponderance of the evidence without a reasonable doubt. There is still reasonable doubt.

does that make me a racist? maybe to some.

*Natural born is the term meaning, born of both American citizen parents meaning both parents must be American. clearly something in the above case is amiss.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...of_the_United_States

I just want it settled without a reasonable doubt. obviously there is still issues, and if people don't like that, oh well. However, I am not making it into a full fledged blown up issue.

(ITS OPINION PEOPLE> DON'T GET UPSET....)

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 05-04-2011).]

quote Originally posted by newf: I'm not totally disagreeing but like I said people vote for all kinds of reasons, it doesn't mean they are the best reasons. For example: If someone was running for President and they went to the same high school as you did or lived on the same street as you did, you don't think you would be more apt to vote for them because you felt some sort of kinship? Should that be THE reason one votes for someone? Not in my mind but I suspect most would do it. My point is that IMO racism comes from a feeling of hate not like. In terms of Obama and black people supporting him just cause he is black I would submit that like with many many issues it's not (pardon the pun here) black and white, as this is the first ever black president and the history of black people in America must be taken into account IMO. If Hillary had been the candidate I would think many woman would have voted for her just because she was female, there is some kind of glass ceiling breaking that has to be taken into account with such matters as wewll IMO.

I don't mean to hijack the thread here, but I purposely use the term "black" when I referr to our brothers of darker persuation because I abhore the term "African American." Every time I hear that, I imagine Jesse Jackson looking up at me (I'm 6'3") and saying "We are African first, and American second..." and that infuriates me.

So I purposely use the term "black." There was a period there, perhaps even just 5-6 years ago where it was almost "shocking" if I used the term black. When I would refer to one of my friends, or use the term to denote a person's physical characteristics when I would be in a conversation where someone forgot a person's name and I would be explaining what the person looked like... there was always a sense of uneasyness by everyone who I talked to whenever I used the word "black." It always drove me nuts...

I am happy to see that over the past few years, it's become much more accepting and "normal" to use the term "black", and that I see fewer and fewer people using the term "African American."

So I'm just curious... in Canada, do people refer to themselves as black, or "African Canadian?"

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: So I'm just curious... in Canada, do people refer to themselves as black, or "African Canadian?"

They have black people in Canada?