There is never any justification for using the anus as a "gripping" point any more than there is justification for sticking a finger in any other opening in the body.
No gripping by the nostrils. No trying to stick a finger in the ear hole and controlling the person. No sticking it in the mouth. Those all should be off limits.
If the "butt drag" move leads to using the anus more than rarely accidentally, then they should ban it.
In his mind, the wrestler "didn't do anything wrong" because he probably had a coach that taught him it was totally acceptable. Well, it isn't. Just as in other sports there are things that push the edge of the rules. So just make this rule absolutely clear.
There really shouldn't be ANY wrestler who goes into a match wondering if his anus is going to be a target, much less accidentally penetrated.
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10:38 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
There is never any justification for using the anus as a "gripping" point any more than there is justification for sticking a finger in any other opening in the body.
No gripping by the nostrils. No trying to stick a finger in the ear hole and controlling the person. No sticking it in the mouth. Those all should be off limits.
If the "butt drag" move leads to using the anus more than rarely accidentally, then they should ban it.
In his mind, the wrestler "didn't do anything wrong" because he probably had a coach that taught him it was totally acceptable. Well, it isn't. Just as in other sports there are things that push the edge of the rules. So just make this rule absolutely clear.
There really shouldn't be ANY wrestler who goes into a match wondering if his anus is going to be a target, much less accidentally penetrated.
I'll bet you diamond donuts you don't recieve the same resistance I did to the same (although less articulate, to be sure) above thought as I had.......
Andrew Clark: You don't have any goals. John Bender: Oh but I do. Andrew Clark: Yeah? John Bender: I wanna be just like you. I figure all I need, is a lobotomy and some tights. Brian Johnson: You wear tights? Andrew Clark: No I don't wear tights. I wear the required uniform. Brian Johnson: Tights. Andrew Clark: Shut up.
There really shouldn't be ANY wrestler who goes into a match wondering if his anus is going to be a target, much less accidentally penetrated.
Do you think the other wrestler should be charged with Sexual Battery? I think it was stupid butt not sexual battery, more like a technical foul and should be treated as such and the punishment should be dealt as such. But then we don't know what happened in the shower after the match. If there is more to the story than the butt drag then that is another story. The coach should be screened for how he trains his students, I don't know of any competent adult that would teach his students to grab another persons anus as an acceptable grappling point out side of the **** industry.
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12:50 PM
Back On Holiday Member
Posts: 6238 From: Downingtown, PA Registered: Jul 2001
Originally posted by madcurl: A police report states that Hill allegedly stuck his fingers deep into the 14-year-old opponent's rectum, causing pain.
The 14-year-old's father told the Bee that Hill had bullied his son and "crossed the line" with the wrestling move.
I bet he was being bullied BEFORE this. When I was on the HS football team, the coach would purposly put me and a bully together during 1 on 1 matches, he knew what was going on and kept doing it, I kept taking the beatings and the laughter in the hallways about it. Had it been sexual in nature like this, it wouldnt have been taken to the police....
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12:51 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Jack Elam The proctoligest in Cannonball Run (among many many many movies)!
quote
Originally posted by Tuna Helper:
If you know him, you probably know this...
Andrew Clark: You don't have any goals. John Bender: Oh but I do. Andrew Clark: Yeah? John Bender: I wanna be just like you. I figure all I need, is a lobotomy and some tights. Brian Johnson: You wear tights? Andrew Clark: No I don't wear tights. I wear the required uniform. Brian Johnson: Tights. Andrew Clark: Shut up.
The Breakfast Club! My fave teen angst movie.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 12-11-2010).]
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12:57 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
No. I think a review of standards and then warnings were in order.
Sexual Battery will stick with this kid for the rest of his life. I think the courts should make every attempt at finding out where it went wrong and correct it without ruining the rest of his life with a sexual battery charge. Assault with intent to do harm would be better than putting him on a list for the rest of his life. Now if this isn't the first time this has happened and it can be shown that this is just one side of the kind of abuse the kid has endured then perhaps it is warranted. But I will wait till I hear the rest of the story or the court makes its ruling before I pass judgment if I do pass judgment. Perhaps this will be replaced by another Internet outrage that will blot this one out. Anyone seen Britney lately?
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01:41 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
There is never any justification for using the anus as a "gripping" point any more than there is justification for sticking a finger in any other opening in the body.
No gripping by the nostrils. No trying to stick a finger in the ear hole and controlling the person. No sticking it in the mouth. Those all should be off limits.
If the "butt drag" move leads to using the anus more than rarely accidentally, then they should ban it.
In his mind, the wrestler "didn't do anything wrong" because he probably had a coach that taught him it was totally acceptable. Well, it isn't. Just as in other sports there are things that push the edge of the rules. So just make this rule absolutely clear.
There really shouldn't be ANY wrestler who goes into a match wondering if his anus is going to be a target, much less accidentally penetrated.
I know you didn't ask me but... To start with he shouldn't be in any more wrestling events or school sponsored events. But he should have his day in court like everyone else and justice not mob/internet rules should apply and unless justice is blatantly blind that should be the end of it, if he is found not guilty than he should be on with his life. If there is more to the story than he should be punished by the laws of the land.
[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 12-11-2010).]
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01:56 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Who ever is in charge of student conduct & safety? Parents>Principle>Coaches>Participants?
I don't know exactly how the school hierarchy works. The coaches tell the wrestlers "You may grab the butt muscle to preform a move, but there should be no penitration of the opponents anus by your fingers."?
(I will refrain from using the emoticon, as It could very well be taken as somewhat insulting to insinuate someone’s lack of intelligence at recognizing what seems to be the very obvious. That's how that emoticon makes me feel sometimes, anyway.)
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 12-11-2010).]
This is what I am saying. This should never have made it into the media or the courts. If it couldn't be handled between the 2 participants, then it should have been handled by the coaches. This thing of running to the courts and lawyers at every opportunity, in organized sports has just gotten waay out of hand--just as it has in everything else in this country. One of the most important and valuable traits a person should leave highschool with, is self reliance. Instead, we now see them leaving that graduation stage with the belief that someone else will take care of every little problem for them--a sense of entitlement. That bodes no good for anyone concerned, just as this legal action will.
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02:22 PM
LZeppelin513 Member
Posts: 761 From: Lake Stevens, Washington Registered: Aug 2003
This is what I am saying. This should never have made it into the media or the courts. If it couldn't be handled between the 2 participants, then it should have been handled by the coaches. This thing of running to the courts and lawyers at every opportunity, in organized sports has just gotten waay out of hand--just as it has in everything else in this country. One of the most important and valuable traits a person should leave highschool with, is self reliance. Instead, we now see them leaving that graduation stage with the belief that someone else will take care of every little problem for them--a sense of entitlement. That bodes no good for anyone concerned, just as this legal action will.
+1
[This message has been edited by LZeppelin513 (edited 12-11-2010).]
This is what I am saying. This should never have made it into the media or the courts. If it couldn't be handled between the 2 participants, then it should have been handled by the coaches. This thing of running to the courts and lawyers at every opportunity, in organized sports has just gotten waay out of hand--just as it has in everything else in this country. One of the most important and valuable traits a person should leave highschool with, is self reliance. Instead, we now see them leaving that graduation stage with the belief that someone else will take care of every little problem for them--a sense of entitlement. That bodes no good for anyone concerned, just as this legal action will.
+2
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02:39 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
This is what I am saying. This should never have made it into the media or the courts.
And all I was saying was that the act itself was wrong, for whatever reason.
And you may very well be right, but sometimes, taking something to court insures that it will not happen to another kid in another school again. Sometimes "self-policeing" just serves to sweep something under the rug.
I'm not saying any of the above is the case here, but courts & media do serve a function at getting the word out....
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 12-11-2010).]
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02:47 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
And all I was saying was that the act itself was wrong, for whatever reason.
And you may very well be right, but sometimes, taking something to court insures that it will not happen to another kid in another school again. Sometimes "self-policeing" just serves to sweep something under the rug.
I'm not saying any of the above is the case here, but courts & media do serve a function at getting the word out....
I agree with what you saying, but there are many examples of our legal system failing us via nonsensical or illogical rulings. The nature of this situation is a bit tricky because the sport. One kid is physically and mentally getting harmed, but thats part of the sport.
Based on my experiences in HS wrestling, the most realistic explanation for this situation (like I said in my post on page 1) is that the victim couldn't emotionally handle the physical misery at practice and broke down mentally. He wanted to get back at the guy that was beating him up in practice so he went to his dad with a story.
The anus thing is ridiculous. Athletic shorts and briefs would be enough of a barrier even if he was trying to stick his own finger up his anus. (I would know )
The coaches who know contact sports, specifically wrestling, are better suited to handle this.
edit: unless of course the coaches were the perverts; if that were the case there would be more victims and more parts to the story would come out.
[This message has been edited by LZeppelin513 (edited 12-11-2010).]
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03:06 PM
PFF
System Bot
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
The anus thing is ridiculous. Athletic shorts and briefs would be enough of a barrier even if he was trying to stick his own finger up his anus. (I would know )
I don't know, I myself can get a pretty good dig going on through a brand new pair of 501's........... And I remember some "petting" stuff when dating that would be considered...................ummmmmm, maybe I should leave it there.
Thinking about that kind of stuff for too long disrupts my wife's solitude...........
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03:13 PM
LZeppelin513 Member
Posts: 761 From: Lake Stevens, Washington Registered: Aug 2003
Something that should be addressed. I wrestled girls a few times when I was a normal male teenager, extremely sexually charged.
Beating up girls on the mat was alway horrible feeling, but never arousing.
off topic: wrestling should not be co-ed, horrible for the males (can't speak for the females) Edit to add: I can remember cross facing a girl one match till her nose opened up, pouring blood across the mat. Not nearly as fun when its a girl
[This message has been edited by LZeppelin513 (edited 12-11-2010).]
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03:21 PM
vinny Member
Posts: 1690 From: starkville MISSISSIPPI Registered: Mar 2003
I wrestled for a short time. What you call the "Scrotum grab" was not allowed, if I recall. Although I don't recall the buttho' being mentioned as a control point, either.
You're probably more familiar with greco-roman wrestling than me, then. I wasn't sure if the "scrotum grab" was a legal move or not. But people use it.
As for the "butt drag" move, I think sticking your hand in another guy's butt is disgusting. When I studied Judo, our Sensei specifically forbade us from sticking our hands in the opponent's "nether region" (not that we wanted to, anyway...LOL). But then again, we were also allowed to grab the opponent by the shirt collar or the belt (and the rest of the uniform, with certain restrictions). So moves like the "butt drag" were unnecessary. You would just grab the guy's belt or pants leg instead.
That said, I agree that charging the wrestler in question with sexual assault is over the top. But IMO, he should definitely be punished by the regulatory body or sanctioning agency or whatever. And if his coach encouraged him to do it, then the coach should be penalized as well.
Do you think the other wrestler should be charged with Sexual Battery? I think it was stupid butt not sexual battery,
QUOTE]
Oh my goodness, IF there was going to be a charge AT ALL, it should be battery.
There is absolutely NOTHING sexual about a wrestler sticking a finger in an anus during a wrestling match. If that isn't clear from the context of the situation that it isn't sexual, then any prosecutor should be fired.
Sexual battery would have SUCH in implication on the guy's future--ridiculous.
(and btw, peeing in public is stupid but it isn't a SEXUAL ACT either. So to make someone a sex offender for peeing in public is ridiculous, too).
I wouldn't have charged the guy at all. I would have handled it internally. (wow. In re-reading that, was that an unfortunate word choice??)
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04:11 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 38394 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Doc, I would never had fingered you for that type of comment.
I actually literally wrote internally, meaning handle the situation within the school system between the wrestlers, and not getting the police involved, as that was my 'train of thought'.
Then I thought, "Hmm. I wonder if anyone would 'think' I intentionally meant it as a pun", which I did not.
So then I thought, well, I could try to find different wording than "internally", but really thought that conveyed the thought the best.
In person, you would have seen facial expression that made sure you knew that what I wrote in parentheses wasn't supposed to be a double-entendre joke. I was more wincing at my own choice, but, well, it communicated the best.
So I appreciate you pointing things out because on the fly of typing, and without facial expression, it is easy to come across wrong and not realize it unless someone says something.
Tal vez cambiare a espanol porque es mas facil ser claro.
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05:55 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 38394 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
emoticon, as It could very well be taken as somewhat insulting to insinuate someone’s lack of intelligence at recognizing what seems to be the very obvious. That's how that emoticon makes me feel sometimes, anyway.)
