Originally posted by rogergarrison:And Ya, even throw my used motor oil out back in the woods.
The plants will take care of it and the cycle will continue. People that pick up their grass clippings are stopping part of the natural process that eventually makes food for the plants and other chemicals that become oil in the gulf.
IP: Logged
12:56 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40754 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Originally posted by FriendGregory: ...People that pick up their grass clippings are stopping part of the natural process that eventually makes food for the plants and other chemicals that become oil in the gulf.
I tell them to use rope. They are not going to outlaw rope anytime soon. Guns are getting too close.
I don't encourage it as such, but I do try to advise they not use any of my firearms or cause a situation that will require cleanup or expense to be incurred on my part. I don't personally know anyone who has killed themselves. I know people with relatives that have. I also know people who have threatened it. I don't want to see anyone kill themselves, but their lives are what THEY make of them.
IP: Logged
05:03 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
It looks like if I was trying to do that, I succeeded. Sorry if you cannot understand Sarcasm, but I don't have the time to hold your hand and explain what I mean. If you dont get it, oh well. Like it or not, you have to share the world, including this website, with people who do not share your opinion on everything. Get used to it, or leave and go somewhere everyone shares the same opinion as you. Have fun in fantasyland.
By the way if you want to block me from sending you a PM, thats fine, but next time you want to address what I post, dont expect to say whatever you want towards me without public ramifications..and here i was being nice to you... waste of time.
I got it. What I might have missed in your original post was adequately explained in your PM.
You also get to share the world, including this website, with people who don't agree with you. So if you're unhappy that I've not left - I suggest you take your own advice. It's interesting that your idea of "sharing" is other people agreeing with your views.
As for blocking your PMs, if I have something to say I'll say it here, in public. I'm not sure what ramifications you're threatening me with other than arguing with me on the internet. You may consider me duly warned and appropriately afraid of your retribution.
Originally posted by tbone42: Ever notice people with kids who are going to inherent this planet are also the ones filling landfills with disposable diapers?
So your saying we shouldn't throw out disposable diapers? Should we recycle these instead?
Nah I ain't recycling diapers full of baby sht. Screw the planet.
I understand how you got rid of the trees.. but what happened to the water?
It looks nothing like either of those pics now, but the water is still there, just not as much of it. Drought year 2009 versus a wet rainy year 2008. Plus, one pic is from a different zoom level of MapQuest ariel view.
IP: Logged
03:05 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
at individual levels - this choice doesnt have very much impact. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/079455.html but, just as some folk cannot makes themselves be lazy some folk just cannot be filthy. but, good luck trying. it is fun sometimes
IP: Logged
09:05 AM
PFF
System Bot
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22952 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
It would be cool if someone could somehow re-ignite whatever it was that drove me, but I don't blame anyone for not trying. Just... useless.
Honestly, it sounds like you're being overly dramatic about a real simple concept. The idea of "doing your part" to help the environment is not exclusive, it's a personality trait. The same person that opens his door carefully in a parking lot so as not to ding the person's car next to him, is the same type of person who would care for his surroundings without thinking about it.
Perhaps you feel entitled? There seems to be a lot of that going around lately. I am on a self-ban for politics, so I won't go into that, but I will say that "helping" the enviroment does not have to be a chore, it just needs to become routine, something you don't think about.
For one, being environmentally friendly is a conservative value. Conservatives created the first national park, and set the groundwork for what would become the first national park. Ranchers, cowboys, farmers, they were the original environmentalists. The women who drive their V8 powered Volvos, drinking their Starbucks Coffee in a cup made from 30% Post-Consumer waste who tell us that it's wrong to drill for oil in Anwar (when Canada is already doing it diagonally under the border)... they are the pseudo environmentalists.
For one, conserving energy saves you a **** -load of money.
My home was built in 1987... it was one of the first 8 homes built in my neighborhood becuase my entire cul-de-sac was a model (not a single home on the cul-de-sac is identical)... all the models are represented. Because of this, it didn't get any of the "options," and everything was built quickly (not cheaply, just quickly without options).
Over the past 7 years that I've owned the home, I've spent money on upgrades: better roofing insulation, double pane windows, replaced all my lights, higher efficiency A/C unit, and higher effiency water heater. All these things add up.
Saving the environment... or... more accurately, not damaging the environment AS MUCH... does not always have to be selfless. You can do it while saving money.
I have a 2 year old, so there is ALWAYS someone at home. That means water is constantly being used, and the power is constantly being used. Even with that, I've been told by the water company and the power company reps that my water / power usage is of the top 10 lowest in the entire neighborhood of 100 or so homes. That even includes the wealthy Canadian snow-birds that own a 2,500 square foot home down here, and visit it only 3-4 months out of the year.
I save TONS of money. For example, I had recessed lighting in my family room. What was originally TEN 90watt flood lights, using 900watts of power at any given second, I replaced four of them with 21watt flourescent floods, and six 15watt flourescenf floods. That comes out to 174watts at any given second. That's an 81% decrease in power consumption.
I went with low-flow faucet aerators (for $2.53 each), and replaced my 5 gallons per flush toilet with a 1.6gpf toilet called "The Titan" by Eljer, which saves more than 3 gallons per flush.
A couple years ago we had an extreme drought here. Falls Lake, our primary water supply was almost down the point of sucking up mud for the water treatment plants. We were on Stage 2 water restrictions and about to enact Stage 3, which is basically emergency rationing. The call went out - we MUST converve water!! The people listened and citywide waterusage was severely reduced.
The result? Now that the drought has abated, excess water is released from the dam to flow out to sea, and since water usage has dropped, the city utility has raised rates to recoup lost revenues.
So other than paying more to get less, I'm not sure what was accomplished other than sending more of our fresh water supply out to sea. At least if we were allowed to irrigate, etc. more regularly the water would stay in our water table to support aquifers and in ground wells instead of flushing it downriver. It would also keep ground water levels higher so the area would be more drought tolerant in the future, but I guess that was considered wasteful.
IP: Logged
12:29 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
The plants will take care of it and the cycle will continue. People that pick up their grass clippings are stopping part of the natural process that eventually makes food for the plants and other chemicals that become oil in the gulf.
Ya, im just recycling it without the middle man. It came out of the ground and I just return it with some added metals and minerals, lol.
IP: Logged
01:29 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22952 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Yep. I feel entitled to do whatever I want. I'm free. I'm American.. and just like some recent American president can sign off on allowing coal companies to dump waste runoff before they get out of office, letting it get into ground water - then I can use high flow shower heads and toilets, gas guzzling cars and leave the lights on all night. RIGHT? If Im willing to pay the money for my excesses, what should it matter to you?
I used to care about all of that very much, but since the majority around this country feel Global Warming is a myth, Green technology is a Scam, and dont think anything is wrong with the environment, why should I care as well? Entitled? No just going along with the majority who barely notice their actions. Or am I? (This is the part of my message where I once again make people think.. hey.. does he REALLY believe what he is saying or trying to rattle some cages? What do YOU think???)
My actions can do NOTHING in the face of the many who dont care. So why should I? Thats my point. Entitled? Only after a few hundred million on this planet as well as previous generations have already done their best to destroy what we have. By the way, a few of you have a little trouble understanding where I come from. I think we should all be doing our best to conserve, recycle, reuse and make the planet better for the next generation.. unfortunately, I see so few doing it, those who are environmentally conscious are drowned out by the many more who observe no conservation.
Sometimes the only way you can get people to pay attention is to hold the mirror up and let them see what they are doing. Thats what this post was always about, and exactly two of you took it the wrong way. I likely care more than you, but no one wants to pay attention to an environmentally conservative love fest.
Now, go jab at the people who posted on this thread that actually MEANT what they said about messing up the environment, and not those who were trying to make the same people THINK.
Well, not trying to be a jerk here, but I think you might believe that people are much more stupid than they let on. Your "ploy" to trick us into thinking you don't really care just seems kind of weird... ???
Yeah, I think global warming is a financial scam meant to extort billions of dollars towards "research" that sets up a presidence for guaranteed funding (IE: Cap & Trade) that eventually funnels towards the IMF. The earth has been going through cooling and warming cycles long before man had anything to do with it. I don't believe now that we're responsible for any changes. Especially since they've determined that it's been significantly hotter 1,000 years ago than it is now.
The REAL problems we're facing, are desertification, plastic islands, urban sprawl, landfill expansion, and things of that nature. We should focus on more energy efficient and alternative energy vehicles simply because it causes less natural disasters like the burning oil fields after the first Persian Gulf War, the Exxon Valdez disaster, or the recent Gulf oil spill.
The idea that carbon... a natural element that grows on the tips of agave plants, and exists all around us is somehow detrimental to the environment is absolutely and profoundly ridiculous. I will also say right here and now that anyone who actually believes in it, is an absolute complete moron.
The TRILLIONS of dollars in world-wide capital that have been spent in global warming "research" hasn't amounted to ANYTHING AT ALL... all of that money has gone to fund the UN, IMF, and ended up in the hands of warlords in third world countries. It's a complete joke. If we could have used those trillions of dollars into something much more constructive, we could have created recycling systems for EVERY SINGLE city in the United States, preserved more wetlands, and considerably improved energy efficient technology research and development.
On the large scale individuals have very little control. That is one of the fallacies of the enviromental movement. Telling people that they are saving the planet by driving a Prius or using less paper is just silly. It just gives people a feeling of doing good when in reality their contribution is the equivolent of urinating in the ocean.
I pick up trash, save energy and maintain my property because of much more selfish and realistic reasons. I don't want to live in a neighborhood with trash in the streets so I pick up trash around my house and in front of it. Even when some young douche throws their McDonalds bag out the window in front of my house, I am the one that picks it up. That is the same reason I maintain my yard.
I use less energy because it costs money to burn gas and use electricity. I recycle because I get money to do it. I have no illusions of saving the planet for doing either one. They are cold, hard and selfish economic decisions.
IP: Logged
01:58 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43225 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Yep. I feel entitled to do whatever I want. I'm free. I'm American.. and just like some recent American president can sign off on allowing coal companies to dump waste runoff before they get out of office, letting it get into ground water - then I can use high flow shower heads and toilets, gas guzzling cars and leave the lights on all night. RIGHT? If Im willing to pay the money for my excesses, what should it matter to you?
Sometimes the only way you can get people to pay attention is to hold the mirror up and let them see what they are doing. Thats what this post was always about, and exactly two of you took it the wrong way. I likely care more than you, but no one wants to pay attention to an environmentally conservative love fest.
IMO, This would be part of cap and tax It seems, you pay to play. You hit the nail on the head, they don't actually care about the future pollution, as long as the cash comes in. The ultimate outcome being they tax your average folks into submission, when they can no longer afford to be free they'll officially be on the governmets teat, everything they do will be regulated, add gov healthcare to that, more widespread use of foodstamps and wallah.
Anyway if someone really wants to help the environment, plant a garden, some grain and corn to feed some critters and subsist off your own farm. Almost anyone agres we polllute too much. Shipping Wisconsin chesse to Cailfornia and California cheese to Wisconsin. lol
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-08-2010).]
Originally posted by tbone42: .. I was just lamenting about how useless it is to do so if no one else will.
This train of thought is a good representation about how to accomplish any improvments in our country. Many people tend to give up and stop doing what they actually believe is best simply because they feel they are the only ones doing it, and nothing will ever change if more people don't do it as well. BUT the most important thing you can do is carry on.
IP: Logged
02:24 PM
PFF
System Bot
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
I wonder how many people realize how much mercury is in florescent light bulbs and how much more they cost. Sure you might make it up with savings but is your health worth it?
Are you talking about these new "global warming" CFL's, you know, the ones that will be the ONLY bulbs we can buy by law? They SUCK. They put out less light, last no longer or even less time than incandescents, cost more and are full of toxic crap. I don't know how many of these greenie weenie crap bulbs I'm having to replace regularly. There is NO WAY they last longer and cost less on a net basis. In fact, my wife gave me the task of inventorying all the damn bulbs that need replacing all over the house.
IP: Logged
02:32 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by tbone42: .. I was just lamenting about how useless it is to do so if no one else will.
We can't even get people to wear condoms, an act that could save the hundreds of thousands of dollars and 20 years of freedom. How we gonna get them to stop littering, when they can't even stop going off like a rapid-fire firehose in some meatmarket speical with the self-control of someone who was just spit out of the bottom of the pron industry?
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-08-2010).]
IP: Logged
02:43 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by fierobear: Are you talking about these new "global warming" CFL's, you know, the ones that will be the ONLY bulbs we can buy by law? They SUCK. They put out less light, last no longer or even less time than incandescents, cost more and are full of toxic crap. I don't know how many of these greenie weenie crap bulbs I'm having to replace regularly. There is NO WAY they last longer and cost less on a net basis. In fact, my wife gave me the task of inventorying all the damn bulbs that need replacing all over the house.
they last WWAAYY longer, in most cases. yes, the light output is mighty weak. and - more importantly - the light "color" really sucks.
I find that these CFLs dont last if they are on "brown" power. if they are on solid wiring & good power source - they go a long long time.
IP: Logged
02:44 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
I wasnt trying to trick anyone, just make them think. Big difference. Of course I care, but according to the opinions of some, its useless to do so since global warming, pollution, etc is a scam and not a real threat. Or are they?
Glad to see I got you (and others) thinking and talking about it... that was my goal. I know, being a father, you are absolutely concerned about what condition the world will be in for your younguns after you are gone. I am actually quite happy to hear your response, because you are an admitted conservative that actually cares about the human effect on environmental conditions.. I am proud to say I know you, and that we can have this conversation. Many admitted conservatives I have spoken to about this are not of the same mind as you on this issue.. I find your view refreshing.
Seriously, I don't believe anyone here is STUPID, but I definitely believe political opinions and bullheadedness are problems enough to block people from doing the right thing, even when flying in face of plain evidence like you mentioned with Garbage Island, Oil Spills, and Desertification, loss of drinking water sources. I believe all of these are not being helped by the actions of mankind, and there is nothing wrong with conservation as you said. My level of sarcasm is sometimes hard for others to handle, but I find it an effective tool for getting a good discussion going.
Nah, I still pick up garbage, recycle, and conserve what I can. Like Brad said, I would do it just to save money. I was just lamenting about how useless it is to do so if no one else will. Maybe I was wrong to despair, but I believe this entire thread has raised some sort of environmental awareness here, for one person I know absolutely for certain because they PMed me and told me so. Seemes effective, so mission accomplished.
Well, I appreciate it. If you're interested, I got quite a bit farther than that. I have all Argentine Bahia grass growing in my yard. I water my yard maybe 8-10 times an entire year... and even then, the water comes from a canal so I don't use drinking water for it.
I never fertilize, but I mulch constantly. I only buy mulch that comes from construction sources, or I produce my own mulch. When I have to rake up the leaves from my macadamia nut tree, I put it into piles around my fruit trees so that the nutrients get re-absorbed into the ground. I grow all my own bananas (cavendish, as well as the small ones), pineapples, mangos (Puerto Rican), papayas, starfruit, barbados charries, surinam cherries, aloe, avacados (Guatemalan), Florida peaches, macadamia nuts, and I've also got pomegranite and oranges growing (but won't get a first harvest for a year). I also have corn growing on the side of my house, not really sure how that happened though? Maybe a bird or something.
Anyway, I don't fertilze any of those plants either. I'm a member of Arbor Day foundation, and National Wildlife Foundation. My property meets the Florida Yards Program which means all my plants are native, or on the accepted list for Florida (non-invasive).
Blah blah... all that other stuff. I compost, I mulch, etc...
A lot of the global warming and environmentally friendly stuff is a scam, unfortunately. A Toyota Prius isn't as environmentally friendly as people think:
Even compact flourescents, for example... let's take a look at that for a second.
Incandescant bulbs are made of glass and metal. Their packaging is made of cardboard. 1 year in a land-fill and there's no traces left of an entire pack of incandescent bulb.
Let's look at a pack of compact flourescents. Not only do they contain glass and metal, but the packaging is made of thick plastic that's non-recyclable (ends up in the land-fill). The plastic casing that holds the electronics (capacitor, etc) for the CFL also is unrecyclable and ends up in the land fill. When the CFL fails, it needs to be recycled (less than 5% of CFLs end up getting recycled) and they contain lithium, mercury, and all kinds of other chemicals. Not to mention that the circuit board which holds the capacitor, and all the other hardware is made up of other rare-earth elements. ALL of that ends in the land fill... this causes more significant damage to the environment than does powering an incandescent.
Almost every "green" alternative is a farse, and a joke.
The solution of course is to really do your research, but the government is so quick and silly to push a rating or approval on a technology without properly researching it.
CFLs are good... but you have to be careful which ones you buy. I only buy GE made, low-mercury CFLs that are not made in China. They actually LAST a long time (like they're supposed to), and obviously give off less heat so my house isn't as hot.
As I said though, there is so much "scam" involved in the "green" movement, that we're actually causing more damage trying to be environmentally friendly than trying to improve our existing proven methods.
When LED technology starts to become common place in the home (for lighting), we'll be much better off. Granted, 99.9% of all the light in my home are CFL... but this will go down as a bad thing in the near future. All this in a 1/2 acre plot (almost all in my backyard)
I guess I am having better luck with them... I have replaced one in two years of using them. The rest are still going, although one is turning on kinda slow in the cold, it may be on its last leg.
All the ones I have had just kept right on chugging along. And were a GREAT solution for "brown" power problems. No more "surge-weary" filiments becouse of it.
IP: Logged
03:04 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22952 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
All the ones I have had just kept right on chugging along. And were a GREAT solution for "brown" power problems. No more "surge-weary" filiments becouse of it.
A GOOD CFL is an excellent replacement. What a lot of people don't realize though is that part of what causes an incandescent lightbulb to burn out isn't failure on the part of the bulb, but in fact an overloading of the circuit with which it's plugged in.
If you take a 25 amp circuit, and install 10 recessed lighting fixtures on that circuit when it already supplies voltage to all the outlets in the room (which powers the TV, stereo, blah blah)... and each light-bulb is 90 watts... when you flip that switch, it's like having a hair dryer, a toaster, and a microwave all plugged into the same circuit, already turned on. The sudden rush of power to the circuit can cause a light to fry.
tbone42, Up until I was 17 I knew I could save the world if someone would just listen to me. One day I realized I couldn't save the world, so I said "F" the world. After that I felt allot better about it's future!.
