quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: Im not mad, however keep in mind that if you want to have an open conversation with people, making statements like, "not speaking the word of God", as if it were fact rather then an opinion is not going to win any one over. On one hand your saying to want to have open dialog with people about religion, but on the other, you are stating they are wrong, spreading false words, and need to be corrected. see my point?

Nick, I'd be curious as to how you reconcile the following Bible passeges with regard to your Mormon faith.

John 1:1-4
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Do you disagree with any of the stated beliefs of Mormons in my first post?

While I don't agree with your perception of our beliefs, or what your opinion of "traditional" is, I do believe in alot that was posted yes. However, this has nothing to do with what I just posted.

Seriously though, I don't have the time to debate it out on the internet. This was the whole point of my last post that you quoted.

Nick, sorry my thread turned into you defending your faith. It was just meant to be a light jab at the people posting insulting remarks about the President.

Good luck... There are never winners in Politics or Religion!!!

quote Originally posted by KidO: .................It was just meant to be a light jab at the people posting insulting remarks about the President. Good luck... There are never winners in Politics or Religion!!!

This is the reason I followed this thread for a while before jumping in. I was a bit confused by this. You pointed the the "hatred spewed" from the "followers on the right", then you asked: "Are the leaders of the left Christian".

quote Originally posted by KidO: As I continue to read the hatred spewed on the leaders of the left from the followers on the right (or the Tea Party), I have to ask myself "Are the leaders of the left Christian?"

and then you asked about Glenn Beck's 'Christianity' without any mention of the "hatred spewed" from the Maddows, the Matthews, the Olbermans, or the blogs.

quote Originally posted by KidO: A little research into the Socio-Political Celebrity Glenn Beck tells me that he is Mormon, or a follower of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". Is that a Christian religion? A little more research reveals... Depends on who you ask?

quote Originally posted by LAMBO: Nick, I'd be curious as to how you reconcile the following Bible passeges with regard to your Mormon faith. John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Revelation 22:18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Not sure what you are looking for in the first two. The "word" it not defined here, so when people continue to say "the word" its their interpretation.

I'm glad you quoted Revelations,Revelation 22:18-19
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."

this is quoted all the time by "Christians" who like to Mormon bash, but they fail to realize how silly this argument is. There are two major problems with this argument.

First: Revelations is speaking non other then Revelations! people who think its speaking about the Bible in its entirety are poor students of history. Its very easy to prove this. The Bible is a compilation of many books, that were chosen and placed together to make what we now know as the Bible. These books were written and self standing long before they were compiled into a collection. Revelations is not talking about the Bible or the changing the Bible, the Bible DID NOT EXIST! This is simply referring to revelations, which was a book of its own at the time it was written. It has nothing to do with the Bible.

Second: A vast majority of the people who reference this scripture from revelations believing it is talking about the Bible as whole often are reading from the NIV (New International Version). This is laughable, because the NIV Bible is grossly changed from the the King James Version of the Bible. So much so, that there are masses of versus missing from the NIV Bible, that the King James contains. If anyone has changed the words of the Bible, is has not been The Latter Day Saints. We read from the King James Version, whole many others read from a Bible that has been hacked apart, is missing versus, and has literally had words changed to meanings that differ completely from the original text. Some say the Book of Mormon is adding too......Wrong. It is its own book. While the Bible teaches about Christ in the Middle East, We believe Christ also appeared to and taught the people here in the Americas. Why would he not? there were children of God here as well. The Book of Mormon is nothing more then a record of the people who inhabited these lands, just like the bible is a record of the people on the other side of the world. That all there is to it. In my opinion, they compliment one another, and only add to to the testament that Christ is the Savoir.

Again, I don't have the time to dedicate to this online. This typing is taking forever.
for those of you who don't believe me about the NIV version of the Bible, here is a list of missing texts ans scriptures. go ahead and see for your self. Get a King James Version and compare the two. Again, I could care less, but when I have people holding up their NIV Bible preaching to me about how perfect their book is, I cant help but shake my head.

WHOLE Bible verses deleted in the NIV

The following WHOLE verses have been removed in the NIV--whether in the text or footnotes...over 40 IN ALL!!!

Matthew 12:47 -- removed in the footnotes
Matthew 17:21 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."
Matthew 18:11 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."
Matthew 21:44 -- removed in the footnotes
Matthew 23:14 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."
Mark 7:16 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."
Mark 9:44 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
Mark 9:46 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
Mark 11:26 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."
Mark 15:28 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors."
Mark 16:9-20 (all 12 verses) -- There is a line separating the last 12 verses of Mark from the main text. Right under the line it says: [The two most reliable early manuscripts do not have Mark 16:9-20] (NIV, 1978 ed.) The Jehovah's Witness "Bible" also places the last 12 verses of Mark as an appendix of sorts.
Luke 17:36 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
Luke 22:44 -- removed in the footnotes
Luke 22:43 -- removed in the footnotes
Luke 23:17 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)"
John 5:4 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had."
John 7:53-8:11 -- removed in the footnotes
Acts 8:37 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. It's deletion makes one think that people can be baptized and saved without believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Sounds Catholic. What are you NIV readers missing?
"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
Acts 15:34 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still."
Acts 24:7 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands,"
Acts 28:29 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."
Romans 16:24 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: While I don't agree with your perception of our beliefs, or what your opinion of "traditional" is, I do believe in alot that was posted yes. However, this has nothing to do with what I just posted. Seriously though, I don't have the time to debate it out on the internet. This was the whole point of my last post that you quoted.

Sorry to get into an unwanted debate.
I saw it as exactly having to do with your last post, as it is not just a different shade of color, or a waste of time, but fundamental differences. These things are important to me. I do not intend to promotre my own ideology but that of the Bible. Thanks for responding in a friendly manner, I hope I did as well.

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: Seriously though, I don't have the time to debate it out on the internet. This was the whole point of my last post that you quoted.

Fair enough. I hope you aren't offended by anything I said.

quote Originally posted by texasfiero: This is the reason I followed this thread for a while before jumping in. I was a bit confused by this. You pointed the the "hatred spewed" from the "followers on the right", then you asked: "Are the leaders of the left Christian".

Sorry for the initial confusion. I have acknowledged that the hatred spews both ways. But I was intending to parallel the Obama thread, and Glenn Beck seemed a good target! Since he has followers, that would make him a leader. There have been many actual political leaders on both sides that have made some pretty heinous comments in the last 20 years. Now that we have celebrities leading our politics to the level that they do, the hate speak has gotten pretty nasty.

quote Originally posted by texasfiero: and then you asked about Glenn Beck's 'Christianity' without any mention of the "hatred spewed" from the Maddows, the Matthews, the Olbermans, or the blogs.

One does not have to look very far to find haters from the left wing. But that would not have started the conversation I was looking for. Glenn Beck ties religion and politics together well, but he himself commented that he was Mormon, and most Christians do not recognize him as one.

KidO, I'm still slightly confused by your very first post.

I regarded it as a typo but people keep bringing it up and now I'm not so sure.

When you asked "Are the leaders of the left Christian?", did you mean to ask "Are the leaders of the right Christian?"

Because Glenn Beck is Right so I'm pretty confused by what you meant.

quote Originally posted by KidO: Nick, sorry my thread turned into you defending your faith. It was just meant to be a light jab at the people posting insulting remarks about the President. Good luck... There are never winners in Politics or Religion!!!

No worries, I don't have the time to sit here and defend, because it will never end. I expected it to happen when I stated I was LDS. My whole life I have experienced ignorance of others in this topic. When I was in the Police Academy, I had a fellow cadet who was a "pastor" come to my dorm room wanting to argue with me, NIV Bible in hand. He held up his NIV Bible, and said it was a perfect book without flaw. I said really? I open up my King James Bible, and said turn to ACTS 8:36, and read from 36 to verse 39. He did and UH OH!...........his NIV Bible jumps from 36 to 38! He is missing a whole verse! What happened? his face turned red, he called me satanic, and then stormed out. hmmm......the preacher got schooled and he didn't like it.

Thats not all, the NIV completely changes words from their original meaning as well. In proverbs 20 of the king James, it says "Wine is a mocker, the strong drink raging, turn to the lord and he will save thee".

in the NIV they say "wine is a mocker and beer a brawler;whoever is led astray by them is not wise". hmm............not even close, to the original, in fact, they completely removed the part that says turn to the lord.

So.....Mormons changed the Bible or added to it? ........LOL, I think not.

quote Originally posted by KidO: Christians do not recognize him as one.

And that is the tragedy. Though I am doubtful that following some aspects of Mormonism, or Catholicism, or some of the myriad of other religions will lead to true salvation, I am compelled to judge from Glenn's actions, that he has truly had the heart changing experience that qualifies him as a believer in Jesus Christ. That is what is meant by "Ye shall know them by their fruits". The rest is for God to know and judge.

----
typo

[This message has been edited by texasfiero (edited 09-14-2010).]

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Fair enough. I hope you aren't offended by anything I said.

no offense, its just this could take hours upon hours of conversation and philosophical perspective in person, let alone typing, I actually enjoy it, but I dont have the king of time it takes to type this out. at this rate we'll be here for days with no end in sight

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: clip.......................... WHOLE Bible verses deleted in the NIV clip............................. What are you NIV readers missing? clip..........

I really haven’t studied the Bible in a very long time but most of the deleted verses you mention in the NIV translation are bracketed in the Ryrie NASB with footnotes that the text is not in many or most of the oldest found manuscripts. I think that was the correct way to handle disputed verses that were included in the KJV.

quote Originally posted by texasfiero: And that is the tragedy. Though I am doubtful that following some aspects of Mormonism, or Catholicism, or some of the myriad of other religions will lead to true salvation, I am compelled to judge from Glenn's actions, that he has truly had the heart changing experience that qualifies him as a believer in Jesus Christ. That is what is meant by "Ye shall know them by their fruits". The rest if for God to know and judge.

perhaps the most truthful thing I have seen posted. "fruits says it all".

unless you a TV preacher who just caught snorting coke with a prostitute int he car. ;-)

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: No worries, I don't have the time to sit here and defend, because it will never end. I expected it to happen when I stated I was LDS. My whole life I have experienced ignorance of others in this topic. .... So.....Mormons changed the Bible or added to it? ........LOL, I think not.

The Mormons added a prophet and a set of beliefs.
As you stated, this particular debate is about difference of opinion, not ignorance.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: KidO, I'm still slightly confused by your very first post. I regarded it as a typo but people keep bringing it up and now I'm not so sure. When you asked "Are the leaders of the left Christian?", did you mean to ask "Are the leaders of the right Christian?" Because Glenn Beck is Right so I'm pretty confused by what you meant.

You are right, it is a typo. Although much too late, I have went back and fixed the original post. I am going to have to fire my proof-reader!

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: We believe Christ also appeared to and taught the people here in the Americas. Why would he not? there were children of God here as well.

And therein lies the cruxt of why Mormonism isn't accepted by the Christian community.

quote Originally posted by LAMBO: And therein lies the cruxt of why Mormonism isn't accepted by the Christian community.

We don't care if "Christians" accept it or not. Thats up to God. The fact so many people think Christ would appear to people in the Eastern hemisphere, but would neglect Gods children in the Western hemisphere is beyond me. In my opinion this is common sense. In fact, there was a book written by an archeologists who was born at the turn of the century called "he walked the Americas". This person was NOT Mormon, but through years of study with Native American tribes, she compiled hundreds of stories that were passed down for centuries that spoke of a white bearded man that taught the same values of Christ. According to this professors book, this bearded white man also set up a priesthood order just like that in the Bible. In fact, when Columbus came, Many Natives thought they were Gods because of a prophecy in their beliefs of the great white God that would return.....sounds like the second coming. Christian groups can claim all they want that Christ never appeared to the people of the Americas, but they have nothing to back up that assumption. Christ told his apostles that he had a flock of sheep not of this fold he must attend to, and left. Many has speculated what he was referring to, there never was a definitive answer to that, only what people read into and speculated. For me its simple............

If Christ taught the gospel in the East and set an example, why would he not also tend to Gods children in the West and teach the gospel there as well? just because the Bible, which was complied centuries later and excludes many writings such as the dead sea scrolls, does not speak of such events, this does not mean they did not take place. Just like the Bible is a written record of events in the East, the Book of Mormon is a record of events that took place in the West around the same time. This is the only claim of the book. That it is a record of Christ and Gods influence on the people of the Americas. Why people have such a problem with that I have no idea.

We believe in the Bible, and we believe in Jesus Christ, only we believe that his presence was not limited to the middle East after his resurrection, and this disqualifies us as being accepted? LOL, what a joke.