Sadly, what if you have tried and tried everything you can & cannot think of, all your life, and have yet to actually hear him? Not hear him even once. Can some people be forbidden from hearing his voice? How can millions hear his voice but someone who really wants to not hear even the slightest peep from him? Can you imagine how isolated & heartbreaking that must be?
What must a person do to hear him?
All you have to do is listen. Not all communication is verbal.
And do you want to know the easiest way to talk with God? Open up the bible and read. He will talk to you.
And sometimes, silence speaks volumes more than words. Think about that.
but you indicated Him alone and that doesn't include me.
You are baptized into him, and the spirit speaks through you. Just like boonie needs to open his ears to hear, MEM needs to open his eyes to see. I'm sure God has spoken to him more times than he'll ever know.
The problem is, the devil is so good at lying.
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02:19 AM
Shyster Member
Posts: 1085 From: Conroe, TX, USA Registered: Aug 2005
Originally posted by 86fierofun: The problem is, the devil is so good at lying.
So is the Church.
Now, Dan started this topic in good faith, among reasonable men. Most all who have replied, have replied in kind. If you want to unnecessarily drag it to a new low, so be it. IBT.
New low? I'm truely sorry if you found offense at what I said. My second reply was purely for frontal lobe. I should have used PM's. I'm sorry. But, since it's out there, I'll leave it. It was meant to bring another perspective, that is all.
"the church" is a pretty broad group of people. If your church is lying to you, I suggest you find another. But what is my suggestion worth? And who asked for it?
Sorry to annoy you Shyster.
What is IBT?
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02:54 AM
Shyster Member
Posts: 1085 From: Conroe, TX, USA Registered: Aug 2005
Originally posted by 86fierofun: New low? I'm truely sorry if you found offense at what I said. My second reply was purely for frontal lobe. I should have used PM's. I'm sorry. But, since it's out there, I'll leave it. It was meant to bring another perspective, that is all.
"the church" is a pretty broad group of people. If your church is lying to you, I suggest you find another. But what is my suggestion worth? And who asked for it?
Sorry to annoy you Shyster.
What is IBT?
Somebody's been around this forum to have enough green as in your bar, you either understand "In before trash," or you're incredibly naive.
"My" church does not lie to me, for it is nonexistent. "The" church lies to others, demonstrably, repeatably, sadly. You cannot distract me by waving your right hand wildly while saying, "Do not look at what my left hand is doing!" ("At no time, do my fingers leave my hand!")
I applaud your efforts, though they are sadly misdirected.
I am incredibly naive. I suck at internet abbreviations. All I saw was IBC, which is a brand of moderately good root beer.
The rest is a matter of difference of belief and opinion. I see where you are coming from, and have a good idea as to why you think the way you do. I think you're wrong, but I see where you are coming from. There are many large "Christian" churches that build a base of its core theology on lies. Not all do though.
I personally believe that the bible is THE truth, not "the church" as men like to define it. I will venture a guess that you are much more familiar with the latter than the former?
Forgive me for drawing this out. If you or frontal lobe want me to quit this discussion I will, but I have a feeling that this thread has already served frontal's purpose.
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03:34 AM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
I'm totally fine with the discussion going where ever it goes.
And just put your viewpoints right out there. No one is offending ME personally with their viewpoints.
The "church" is SUCH an imprecise term that I make no attempt to defend it. A LOT of churches have lied (and been harmful) repeatedly. Maybe most. I would strongly disagree with the behavior and beliefs that go on in many "churches".
My particular church spends a lot of time and effort to be a HELP, and to be completely above board, and to NOT lie to people. Even if you consider the Bible a lie, for example, we STILL don't lie in teaching it in my church. Because we make sure we present it like this: This is what the Bible says. Now you have to decide if it is true and what you are going to do with it.
Then we don't treat people any differently if they decide it isn't true. We still try to be friendly and kind and good neighbors and helpful and supportive.
So the lesson I gave. People that think our church believes a lie are still going to benefit because the men are going to be better persons by focusing on being more sensitive to others and their needs.
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10:09 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Insensitivity? you be the judge: My brother asked me if I knew anyone that wanted a kitten I said no, why? Then he told me his girl friend’s cat had six kittens and they were having trouble finding homes for them and I said how old is the cat? He says 4 years old, then I say why didn’t she get it fixed before this happened? He says she did not have the time or the $45 it costs to fix it, so then I call BS on that because I know she has a good job and plenty of time to do all kinds of fun activities. (I hate when people have pets and are so self absorbed that they do not do what is right for the animals) so then I say “I think when she takes them to the animal shelter she should have to put them to sleep herself so she can see how it feels and then maybe next time she will be more responsible” That was when he said I was the most insensitive person he knows. So I guess insensitivity can be subjective, I was insensitive to his stupid GF but sensitive to the plight of the animals. The question here is who is insensitive? Me? The GF or my brother he could have got the cat fixed. In the end the cats lost as is the case for a lot of animals. The only good thing that came out of this conversation is that it is now a running joke with my family and friends that I AM the MOST insensitive person they know.
Looks like you see it clear to me, you were sensitive to the animals, insensitive to some people who did not seem to care much about the animals (maybe it is justified then?, a whole other conversation?) . Really it stems from your experience of having seen the results of people not being responsible for theit animals, your brother it seems was not as experienced. The fact it was your brother changes this all alot. People will say things to their relatives that they would naver say to a stranger, and vice versa.
But a point I see, is we are all at our own stage of life, in our own lives. Everyone has different experiences they have learned from in their lifetime. One person might have seen the same issue 50 times and began dealing with it correctly in their own life on the 10th time it occured. The person they might be having a conversation with may only be experiencing it for the 1st or 2nd time.
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10:47 AM
Lambo nut Member
Posts: 4442 From: Centralia,Missouri. USA Registered: Sep 2003
My example of insensitivity, and church related even....
In the early 80's, when I was in high school, the teacher was called out into the hall way and came back into the room upset. She proceeded to tell us the Pope had been shot. I raised my hand and when called on asked if we would be getting out of school early because of this. That did not go over too well.
Does anyone know if it is insensitive to ask, "Are you having your period or something?"
Ha, ha! Doc this made me laugh!!
About a month ago my daughter came up with her kids. Well, whatever the kids had, I got and I ended up feeling like crap and throwing up the next morning. I went to work anyway, Why because I'm an idiot! Anyway, my boss was outside when I was loading my truck to deliver my mail, and one of the guys I work with told him I wasnt feeling well. He came over to the truck when I was ready to leave and asked if I was going to make it. I told him if I felt this bad tomorrow, I'm not coming in. Then he said, what's wrong, that time of the month? Was it insensitive? Nah, not to me, but it might be to another person.
Now, I could see lots of women being upset if you walked over to them and asked your question. I don't get cranky with mine so I never had it asked of me before. But if I did, then I would realize I'm being a total b and try to cool it for awhile. Then again, I'm married to a guy that puts it all right out there. I'm used to negative comments. So would that question be insensitive for other women, probably, most of them are coddled to death and wouldn't like any form of insensitivity.
My daughter has had that asked of her and I don't think she thinks it's insensitive. She just stares at the guy that said it until he sulks away in fear, lol.
I really think the whole insensitivity thing is different from one person to another. I think it depends on what you deal with every day and how you look at things. What's perfectly fine for one is totally wrong for another.
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02:53 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9993 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
About a month ago my daughter came up with her kids. Well, whatever the kids had, I got and I ended up feeling like crap and throwing up the next morning. I went to work anyway, Why because I'm an idiot! Anyway, my boss was outside when I was loading my truck to deliver my mail, and one of the guys I work with told him I wasnt feeling well. He came over to the truck when I was ready to leave and asked if I was going to make it. I told him if I felt this bad tomorrow, I'm not coming in. Then he said, what's wrong, that time of the month? Was it insensitive? Nah, not to me, but it might be to another person.
Now, I could see lots of women being upset if you walked over to them and asked your question. I don't get cranky with mine so I never had it asked of me before. But if I did, then I would realize I'm being a total b and try to cool it for awhile. Then again, I'm married to a guy that puts it all right out there. I'm used to negative comments. So would that question be insensitive for other women, probably, most of them are coddled to death and wouldn't like any form of insensitivity.
My daughter has had that asked of her and I don't think she thinks it's insensitive. She just stares at the guy that said it until he sulks away in fear, lol.
I really think the whole insensitivity thing is different from one person to another. I think it depends on what you deal with every day and how you look at things. What's perfectly fine for one is totally wrong for another.
I had an opposite situation. When I was a mailman, a female coworker was obviously having a hard time doing her job. I came over to assist. She thanked me and I asked if she was ill. She said she had cramps. I mentioned to her that I work out a lot too and recommended a good massage theropist that could work out all of her cramps. She just stared at me with seething anger burning in her eyes until I noticed, shut up and slinked away.
Originally posted by Doug85GT: I had an opposite situation. When I was a mailman, a female coworker was obviously having a hard time doing her job. I came over to assist. She thanked me and I asked if she was ill. She said she had cramps. I mentioned to her that I work out a lot too and recommended a good massage theropist that could work out all of her cramps. She just stared at me with seething anger burning in her eyes until I noticed, shut up and slinked away.
That's funny. You were trying to be nice, said something you thought was helpful and she freaks out. She could have said, wrong type of cramps and you two could have laughed it off. Why do chicks get so worked up about stupid stuff. It's a fact of life, women bleed, get over it!! And why the heck did she need help because of cramps?? Suck it up!! Sheesh, sometimes it's so embarrassing being a woman.
[This message has been edited by fierogirls-mom (edited 04-12-2010).]
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03:29 PM
Apr 13th, 2010
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
What's perfectly fine for one is totally wrong for another.
I spent a good amount of time addressing this.
It doesn't matter how YOU feel about a subject. Doesn't matter whether YOU think it should be touchy, or an issue, or whatever.
It matters what the OTHER individual thinks or feels about it.
So we did some examples of that.
One that came up was the "honey-do list". A lot of men look at the list and there are several things that make them think, "Well, THAT'S stupid. Who cares if THAT gets done?"
Uhhh, IT MADE THE LIST. That is a CLUE that it is important to THEM.
"Well it SHOULDN'T be." Possibly. Probably? But it IS.
So I encouraged them to slow down in life and pay some attention and try to get calibrated to what is important to people because, like you say, it IS different from person to person.
So I encouraged them to slow down in life and pay some attention and try to get calibrated to what is important to people because, like you say, it IS different from person to person.
Good point, actually listening to people makes it a lot easier not to be insensitive to their needs. Most people don't take the time to do that.
Sorry Doc, I think I killed your thread!! Must have been all the girl talk!
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02:17 PM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999