I guess this is excused as 'professional' insensitivity FL, and that gives everybody carte blanche to be so degraded AND degrading ...but this type of humour, and then to actually ATTACK the woman verbaly for criticising...it just goes to show how far down the pan the UK has really gone. I want to wring his horrible scrawny Scottish neck, to be honest.and those of the filth that post comments in his support at the end of the article. i'm ashamed to post it, but maybe it is one excellent example of 'insensitivity' UGH. Nick
[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-09-2010).]
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03:32 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
One bit of insensitivity that I can't deal with is the Grief Competitor. This is the person who, when faced with someone who has gone through a tough time, must tell a story about when they were in tougher times and how well they dealt with the issue. It is extremely rude and uncaring.
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03:48 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: One bit of insensitivity that I can't deal with is the Grief Competitor. This is the person who, when faced with someone who has gone through a tough time, must tell a story about when they were in tougher times and how well they dealt with the issue. It is extremely rude and uncaring.
yes, the classic "one upper". no matter what - gotta jump in with a story to top whatever..... unfortunately, I often find myself doing this. but, knowing is half the battle.....
yes, the classic "one upper". no matter what - gotta jump in with a story to top whatever..... unfortunately, I often find myself doing this. but, knowing is half the battle.....
I find myself doing it more .
Brad
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03:59 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
One bit of insensitivity that I can't deal with is the Grief Competitor. This is the person who, when faced with someone who has gone through a tough time, must tell a story about when they were in tougher times and how well they dealt with the issue. It is extremely rude and uncaring.
Absolutely. I have some examples of that one ready to go. The Competitor. The One-Upper.
MILD example:
"Oh, man, my mouth hurts. I just got my bottom wisdom teeth out."
Response: "I had ALL FOUR out and ONCE! Now THAT is pain."
Not, oh, sorry, friend. I'm sure that is rough. Hope you feel better soon.
The root of the issue is making everything about YOU instead of about the person that started the conversation.
If you can give some concrete examples or instances without it being too personal or too public, that would be great. To help the group, the more specific the examples, the better.
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04:18 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Absolutely. I have some examples of that one ready to go. The Competitor. The One-Upper.
MILD example:
"Oh, man, my mouth hurts. I just got my bottom wisdom teeth out."
Response: "I had ALL FOUR out and ONCE! Now THAT is pain."
Yeah those are a bit annoying. An insensitive response to that insensitive response could be : Nah it isn't pain, I was just kidding, if yours hurt then you're a wuss.
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04:58 PM
PFF
System Bot
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Yeah those are a bit annoying. An insensitive response to that insensitive response could be : Nah it isn't pain, I was just kidding, if yours hurt then you're a wuss.
When I was a kid my dad's favorite one, no matter how bad you were bleeding was, "It is only a worm bite". With eight kids, my mom always kept her jar of Alum within reach.
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05:23 PM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
I think the brave thing would be to include something about the insensitvity between those that believe in the bible, and those that don't.
I have no problem being brave and letting the truth fly and let the reaction fall where it may.
According to the Bible it is our job to TRY to approach people about getting a hearing on how the Bible says to get to heaven.
BUT, there is an insensitive (at best, and rude at worst) way to do it. I always ask someone permission to speak to them about it first.
If the answer is no, it is no.
But then I can STILL be insensitive. If it is a co-worker, for example, and there is another christian at work, and it is just the 3 of us. I COULD just always have the conversation be about biblical things. But I don't because that would be insensitive to the one who told me he/she didn't want to talk about it.
Good example.
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05:24 PM
cliffw Member
Posts: 37848 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
I think the brave thing would be to include something about the insensitvity between those that believe in the bible, and those that don't.
For example, is it insensitive to speak about evolution around other people, not knowing what their belief system is?
Not to me. I think I have gotten used to alot of people assuming it is a fact as presented on the natgeo channel. It is what they believe, they speak what they believe and I speak what I believe.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-09-2010).]
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09:36 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
Originally posted by frontal lobe: If you can give some concrete examples or instances without it being too personal or too public, that would be great. To help the group, the more specific the examples, the better.
OK, why not. Some people here know that I had an older brother that basically drugged and tortured himself to death, mutilating his flesh with knives and cigarette burns, and basically terrorized his family with threats of suicide. Eventually we grew numb after his repetitive overdoses and inpatient admissions for psychiatric observations, and his wife wound up stepping over his body on her way to bed to wake up the next morning to his lifeless cold and stiff corpse.
As one might think, it took me considerable time and processing to work out my feelings about that. So many times when I would actually discuss what happened and be met with the response, "oh yes, my cousin died in a car accident." or "my grandmother just died, we were so close." Any time someone tried to compare their experience to mine, it angered me instead of providing any comfort.
Anyway, good for you on giving this lesson. I hope my experience might teach someone about being compassionate and empathetic.
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09:40 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
I have no problem being brave and letting the truth fly and let the reaction fall where it may.
According to the Bible it is our job to TRY to approach people about getting a hearing on how the Bible says to get to heaven.
BUT, there is an insensitive (at best, and rude at worst) way to do it. I always ask someone permission to speak to them about it first.
If the answer is no, it is no.
But then I can STILL be insensitive. If it is a co-worker, for example, and there is another christian at work, and it is just the 3 of us. I COULD just always have the conversation be about biblical things. But I don't because that would be insensitive to the one who told me he/she didn't want to talk about it.
Good example.
I kinda figure...if god wants an audience with me, he will get it once I am dead. In the meantime, I will be perfectly happy to buy him a coffee if and or when he chooses to knock on my front door.
HIM..and HIM alone...the 6.7 billion people who claim to speak for him---can buy their own damn coffee.
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09:44 PM
jimbolaya Member
Posts: 10652 From: Virginia Beach, Virginia Registered: Feb 2007
OK, why not. Some people here know that I had an older brother that basically drugged and tortured himself to death, mutilating his flesh with knives and cigarette burns, and basically terrorized his family with threats of suicide. Eventually we grew numb after his repetitive overdoses and inpatient admissions for psychiatric observations, and his wife wound up stepping over his body on her way to bed to wake up the next morning to his lifeless cold and stiff corpse.
As one might think, it took me considerable time and processing to work out my feelings about that. So many times when I would actually discuss what happened and be met with the response, "oh yes, my cousin died in a car accident." or "my grandmother just died, we were so close." Any time someone tried to compare their experience to mine, it angered me instead of providing any comfort.
Anyway, good for you on giving this lesson. I hope my experience might teach someone about being compassionate and empathetic.
How tragic and horrible for you. I have never heard this story before. I have no experiences to share to try and "one up" you. Let me say though, not everyone is trying to "one up" by sharing an experience. It is also used to convey a shared experience and to say you are not alone. It's called empathy. That's not to discount your feelings either. They are your feelings and they are very valid. Here's hoping you received this in the way it was intended. No sarcasm here.
Jim
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 04-09-2010).]
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10:45 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
I kinda figure...if god wants an audience with me, he will get it once I am dead. In the meantime, I will be perfectly happy to buy him a coffee if and or when he chooses to knock on my front door.
HIM..and HIM alone...the 6.7 billion people who claim to speak for him---can buy their own damn coffee.
I mean no harm but this is just to fitting MidEngineManiac...
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20
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11:24 PM
PFF
System Bot
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
Let me say though, not everyone is trying to "one up" by sharing an experience. It is also used to convey a shared experience and to say you are not alone. It's called empathy. That's not to discount your feelings either.
Thanks for the concrete example, WhiteDevil88.
jimbolaya, it is true that many people aren't TRYING to "one up" someone. But the problem is that relating their story isn't helpful at that time. The helpful step at THAT point is to just "rejoice with those that rejoice, and sorrow with those that sorrow."
So it is sorrowing time. "I am SO sorry." "That must have been SO hard to watch happen or to live through." "How are you doing with all this? Is there any way I could be of help?"
WhiteDevil88 would be an excellent resource to give examples of what WOULD have been helpful at THAT step.
Unfortunately, the good hearted but ill-advised attempt at trying to relate with what happened changes the focus FROM the person that is suffering TO the person relating "MY cousin..." or "MY grandmother..." had such and such.
P.S. Not speaking on an example level now, I'm really sorry about what you had to go through with your brother. Can't come close to imagining how painful that must have been.
MidEngineManiac, if I was seeing you in the beginning I wouldn't have any way of knowing you felt that way. So if we were on a cordial to friendly basis I would ASK you if I could talk to you about it. You would say no at some level, possibly at the level of your post even. I would say, hey, ok, I respect your rights and won't violate them now that I know how you feel. Still more than happy to be friendly with you no matter what.
I appreciate your straightforwardness with your post and could give you some info. on what the Bible says about some of your beliefs, but you indicated Him alone and that doesn't include me. So, anyway, just making it clear I'm not being insensitive to your wishes!
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11:45 PM
pokeyfiero Member
Posts: 16233 From: Free America! Registered: Dec 2003
One Doc once told me I would be left with a facial scar and half my face would be paralized...and he converyed it to me as if he was telling me some great news...I went to another doctor, and he was able to do everything without any noticable scars(and no facial paralysis) If the first Dos's delivery was different, I might not have gotten the second opinion.
I think this is a very very good point.
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11:49 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
If anyone hears my voice............................
Sadly, what if you have tried and tried everything you can & cannot think of, all your life, and have yet to actually hear him? Not hear him even once. Can some people be forbidden from hearing his voice? How can millions hear his voice but someone who really wants to not hear even the slightest peep from him? Can you imagine how isolated & heartbreaking that must be?
I do not know if it is "upmanship" or trying to relate--gain or project understanding of the 1st person's problem or misfortune. When I have something unpleasant happen to me, I take some comfort knowing others have gone thru the same or similar circumstance and found their way thru it. Makes it easier for me to believe I can as well.
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01:19 AM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
I agree with Don. While it may seem insensitive on the surface, you're actually helping the person to cope with his/her suffering. That's how "tough love" works. A little insensitivity can be a good thing. It helps you learn to cope with adversity.
That said, if someone made a habit of "one-upping" every one else's problems just to brag, that's another story. But that's not really insensitivity. That's just a braggart.
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01:39 AM
FriendGregory Member
Posts: 4833 From: Palo Alto, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
OK, why not. Some people here know that I had an older brother that basically drugged and tortured himself to death, mutilating his flesh with knives and cigarette burns, and basically terrorized his family with threats of suicide. Eventually we grew numb after his repetitive overdoses and inpatient admissions for psychiatric observations, and his wife wound up stepping over his body on her way to bed to wake up the next morning to his lifeless cold and stiff corpse.
As one might think, it took me considerable time and processing to work out my feelings about that. So many times when I would actually discuss what happened and be met with the response, "oh yes, my cousin died in a car accident." or "my grandmother just died, we were so close." Any time someone tried to compare their experience to mine, it angered me instead of providing any comfort.
Anyway, good for you on giving this lesson. I hope my experience might teach someone about being compassionate and empathetic.
Would " I can't imagine your pain." work? I bet you could not wish this on anyone, this hits home as to my fear of being in your position.
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04:35 AM
Christine Member
Posts: 1052 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: Jan 2003
Insensitivity? you be the judge: My brother asked me if I knew anyone that wanted a kitten I said no, why? Then he told me his girl friend’s cat had six kittens and they were having trouble finding homes for them and I said how old is the cat? He says 4 years old, then I say why didn’t she get it fixed before this happened? He says she did not have the time or the $45 it costs to fix it, so then I call BS on that because I know she has a good job and plenty of time to do all kinds of fun activities. (I hate when people have pets and are so self absorbed that they do not do what is right for the animals) so then I say “I think when she takes them to the animal shelter she should have to put them to sleep herself so she can see how it feels and then maybe next time she will be more responsible” That was when he said I was the most insensitive person he knows. So I guess insensitivity can be subjective, I was insensitive to his stupid GF but sensitive to the plight of the animals. The question here is who is insensitive? Me? The GF or my brother he could have got the cat fixed. In the end the cats lost as is the case for a lot of animals. The only good thing that came out of this conversation is that it is now a running joke with my family and friends that I AM the MOST insensitive person they know. When someone gets a minor injury and the whines about it, I do not say it doesn’t hurt that bad, I say if you’re not bleeding to death or have a broken bone suck it up and quit your crying, crying does not help it feel any better it just annoys the rest of us. Is that insensitive too? Or just true?
Would " I can't imagine your pain." work? I bet you could not wish this on anyone, this hits home as to my fear of being in your position.
That was the best type of response. Unfortunately it is pretty rare. Too often people would state that they have lived through much worse. Sometimes that is true, but it completely invalidates the feelings of the person grieving.
And Christine, I totally agree with you about the kittens.
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01:02 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
I agree with Don. While it may seem insensitive on the surface, you're actually helping the person to cope with his/her suffering. That's how "tough love" works. A little insensitivity can be a good thing. It helps you learn to cope with adversity.
Why do you think someone that has gone through a staggering family loss needs "tough love"? What did I do to cause my brother to intentionally and continually cause harm to himself and our family? This is what hardens my grief into hate. You have no idea what I have been through, only a small sliver of light has been shown on what really happened. There is no way that I am going to be able to process everything that I had to deal with when what is revealed is discounted and dismissed. This isn't about making you feel better, about you "doing something" when you have no idea what you are doing. This was an event that didn't just make me a little sad. It seriously skewed my psyche, and it is grief that still visits me almost 20 years later.
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01:10 PM
PFF
System Bot
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
I mean no harm but this is just to fitting MidEngineManiac...
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20
No harm taken 2.5....there ARE things I understand, I am just too much of an anti-social a-hole to take up on them sometimes.
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01:21 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
You drive a Fiero, right? That's a form of insensitivity right there, especially if it's stock. J/k seriously, insensitivity usually involves those lacking some type of insight regarding the person(s) conditions (past or present) to whom their speaking too.
Therefore, IMO it is virtually impossible not to become insensitive- eventually it's going to happen (you're human, right). However, upon finding out that you’ve become, “insensitive” (albeit from the person or usually by the third party who witnessed it) it would be prudent to correct the misunderstanding quickly. If not- people will label you as insensitive.
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02:53 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17106 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
My wife and I were seperated. It was clear to me that she didn't care about me anymore. Times were really tough for me adjusting to living alone and the rejection. My mother told me that we shouldn't get divorced "because divorces are really expensive".
I know she didn't mean it the way I took it but this idea that I should live my life with someone who couldn't give a crap about me "because divorces are really expensive" still totally offends me.
I guess that's the thing about insensitivity. It's when you toss some statement out there that YOU don't think should be a big deal, but you totally miss how it's going to be negatively received by the other person.
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03:46 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
I agree with Don. While it may seem insensitive on the surface, you're actually helping the person to cope with his/her suffering. That's how "tough love" works. A little insensitivity can be a good thing. It helps you learn to cope with adversity.
I wouldn't be surprised that in most case- it's antidote to curing the problem at hand. I remembered a boss named Tommy I once worked for 30-plus years ago. When I opt out and wanted to go to college, he mocked me saying, "You’ll never make it." Hearing those words were a bit disheartening, but I used it as a tool to excel.
The same antidote can be used regarding the lost of a love one or the break-up of a marriage. I remember my folks speaking in riddles when a crisis arises, “You’ve fallen, but you don’t lay down- you get up.” It’s sometimes known as the “sandwich” effect thereby you comfort them, hit them with the needed advise, and then encourage them to move forward. Nurses perform this task all of the time when injecting a child with medicine.
I hope my experience might teach someone about being compassionate and empathetic.
About 60 men of a wide age range and background came. I used your experience as one of the examples. It helped many (most or all?) look at it from a viewpoint (yours) that they had never experienced or understood.
So you and I will never know exactly which and how many people you helped, but I'll say thanks for my sake and on their behalf. Thanks for putting yourself out there.