Hi All,

I'm meeting with probably 50 or so men from my church tomorrow morning for a monthly get together. They have breakfast and then maybe a 20-25 minute lesson. They asked me to give the lesson tomorrow. I said, sure, no problem, what would you like it to be on. The guy directing it said, "insensitivity".

An example might be someone has a miscarriage at 6 or 8 weeks and you don't know what to say and you want to try to be positive and encouraging so you say, "Well, you are young. You can try again." You MEAN it to be nice, but it is insensitive to the person's immediate LOSS.


Or your child falls down and gets hurt and you say, "Oh, it doesn't hurt THAT bad." And maybe it doesn't. But you are insensitive to that it DID hurt.


I have a bunch of examples in mind, but would love to hear if you guys and ladies have something that comes to mind.

I'm constantly accused of being insensitive at work and at home, but generally I'm not trying to be sensitive unless I know you or like you. I could be your secret guest. People could talk to me and when I open my mouth, just tell the group here is what not to say.

When someone comes to me with a problem, my general opening line is "whats your problem?" I don't mean to be mean, just comes out that way.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 04-09-2010).]

I have been told that telling my "L"users that they need to stop surfing **** at work and being generally stupid.. after they have lost all their data... ,
is generally insensitive..

[This message has been edited by 8Ball (edited 04-09-2010).]

One Doc once told me I would be left with a facial scar and half my face would be paralized...and he converyed it to me as if he was telling me some great news...I went to another doctor, and he was able to do everything without any noticable scars(and no facial paralysis)
If the first Dos's delivery was different, I might not have gotten the second opinion.

I've been called insensitive just because whenever someone incurrs a minor injury I automatically ask "did you learn anything ?". I can't really help it; I sort of inherited that phrase from growing up

I constantly hear "You don't have kids so you don't understand" or similar from people that just don't realize how bad that hurts to hear.

I'm talking suicide depression whenever this is brought up, it's not my, or my wife's fault we cannot conceive, and having half of our life deemed "useless" by a majority of people simply because we cannot have kids is extremely insensitive toward us.

We've even had members of our family say stuff like this, and they know what we have been through on this.

Just the other day I removed someone who I considered a friend from facebook because she threw the "You don't have kids, so you don't have any idea what I am talking about" argument, followed by "everyone who doesn't have kids needs to shut up." She claims she was talking to someone else in the conversation, not that we believe her. She lost a friend because of that. I lost any respect I had for her, and I could care less. If someone cares so little about someone, that they will attack them based on this...

Eh, I am dropping it, I'm pissed again.

Brad

Those two examples you gave (especially if saying something to a female) you maybe don't really say anything. (if you haven't noticed, they take things ALOT differently than a guy)

For the 1st you might say "how are you doing" or "if you need anything I'm here".

For the second maybe, "I remember doing that when I was your age, it only hurts for a little bit, then it makes you tougher" or something.

Oh wait, you just want bad examples?

How about someone got a haircut and you say "Wow, you look different", or someone is gaining weight and you ask if they are pregnant.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-09-2010).]

Did you get an extra X chromosome implanted, 2.5 ?

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: ..simply because we cannot have kids is extremely insensitive toward us. We've even had members of our family say stuff like this, and they know what we have been through on this.

Some people are just clueless when it comes to the feelings of the people around them. Its almost a kind of poor short or long term memory with some people. To me I sometimes think the person must be self centered, but it isn't always the case.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: An example might be ..... Or ....

Okay, I'll go with that.
How 'bouts explaining (including) reasons for insensitivity. Which squares the amount of examples you might use.

You want examples of insensitivity go to RFT .

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 04-09-2010).]

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: I constantly hear "You don't have kids so you don't understand" or similar from people that just don't realize how bad that hurts to hear. It's not my, or my wife's fault we cannot conceive, and having half of our life deemed "useless" by a majority of people simply because we cannot have kids is extremely insensitive toward us.

I cried.
That hits really close to home.

I don't think I take it as hard as you becouse I always tell myself that the people saying it just are incapible of knowing how deep a hurt it is for those like us.

We will NEVER get to have that bond that is probibly the most beautfull thing in human exsistence.
The hole it leaves in you is so painfull that you can't even bury it inside yourself.
Those small trusting eyes will never look into your soul and say, "I am you".

In your old age you will never have someone to hold you and tell you that you did good, your guiding hand ment something.
You gave someone a good life.
You loved on a level most high.

And when our lives are all used up, my Wife and I will have missed a part of something very wonderful.
Maybe the very essence of what it means to be human.

Thanks for effing up my day, Brad!

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 04-09-2010).]

Sensitive, insensitive, sympathetic, usually is in the eye of the beholder.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: And when our lives are all used up, my Wife and I will have missed a part of something very wonderful. Maybe the very essence of what it means to be human.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
I can think of so many things which scream that I am more human than just having kids.
What makes that ant think that he can move that rubber tree plant ?
Dawg, I hope your thoughts do not cause you too much fret. We are all a gear in the cog.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 04-09-2010).]

This sounds like a question for Mid Engine Maniac....wait, was that insensitive of me?

Jim

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Dawg, I hope your thoughts do not cause you too much fret.

It does not.
It does confront me some that there will be no creation of mine to see me off this mortal coil.

It's just that there are certain things in the span of a human life that I think define our expirience of being human.
Our first step
Our first word
Our first understanding of pain
Falling in love
Our first time making love
Having children
Dieing

A part of our journey will be missing.

Pyrthian would be the expert in this field Doc.

/\
Is that a good example?

quote Originally posted by Rainman: I don't mean to be mean, just comes out that way.

There ARE (obviously) mean people, but most people aren't. And in the group I will be in, very few will be mean spirited.

That is what the lesson is (going to try to be) about. I don't mind if someone is a natural at it, like 2.5 and his extra "x" chromosome (KIDDING!), or is more on the other end of the spectrum like you perceive yourself.

If someone isn't a natural, they can still TRY and can still LEARN. Even after learning and trying, we still might not be as good at it as the next guy, but we are still better than we were. And if we can't reach being "sensitive", well, at least minimize being INsensitive.

And I can give them the instruction in principles, but REAL LIFE EXAMPLES make a big impact.


twofatguys and Boondawg, thanks for helping those of us reading this to learn to be more alert to that situation. Interestingly, the portion of the Bible they asked me to launch from was 1 Samuel Chapter 1 verses 1-8. Short read if you want to read it. It is about a guy who had 2 wives (common back then.) One was able to have children, but the other woman wasn't able to. The wife that had children kept gloating and sticking it to the other wife. She was crying about it one time and her husband wanted to know what was the problem, what was she crying about. She told him because she wasn't able to have children. His response was essentially, "Well, you have ME. Being married to me is better than having 10 sons!"

Uh, yah. Insensitive.

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Here's my personal favorite from my wife. "Oh sweetie, size doesn't matter." Jim

To which I reply, "If I knew I was going to play in a cathedral, I woulda' brought a bigger organ!"
Then I get a good nights sleep out in the car.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: To which I reply, "If I knew I was going to play in a cathedral, I woulda' brought a bigger organ!" Then I get a good nights sleep out in the car.

Tho it is church related, I doubt the Doc will use that one Boonie.

Insensitive...I'll e-mail ya a pic of me. If THAT dont scare yer group, nothing will.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: To which I reply, "If I knew I was going to play in a cathedral, I woulda' brought a bigger organ!" Then I get a good nights sleep out in the car.

Wow, your wife will actually let you sleep in the car.

Jim

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Pyrthian would be the expert in this field Doc. /\ Is that a good example?

yup.....and some of the above posts bring up stuff which I have actually said/posted.....
yes - I often post thoughtlesslessy. and, I am sure my daughter can bring up a shopping list of my insensitivity.
trying to think of anyone I have NOT posted insensitively about.....

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Hi All, I'm meeting with probably 50 or so men from my church tomorrow morning for a monthly get together. They have breakfast and then maybe a 20-25 minute lesson. They asked me to give the lesson tomorrow. I said, sure, no problem, what would you like it to be on. The guy directing it said, "insensitivity". An example might be someone has a miscarriage at 6 or 8 weeks and you don't know what to say and you want to try to be positive and encouraging so you say, "Well, you are young. You can try again." You MEAN it to be nice, but it is insensitive to the person's immediate LOSS. Or your child falls down and gets hurt and you say, "Oh, it doesn't hurt THAT bad." And maybe it doesn't. But you are insensitive to that it DID hurt. I have a bunch of examples in mind, but would love to hear if you guys and ladies have something that comes to mind.

Believe me when I tell you this is one of my biggest personal struggles, and this is what hit hardest for me. Our pastor did a sermon recently that centered around this topic, and he basically stated it like this: The insensitivity is a symptom, not a root cause.

From Luke 6:

43:"No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44:Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. 45:The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.


Maybe redirect them to the cause so they're aware of why they may be insensitive, I know it hit home to me...

Of course, I still get insensitive, but I remember this verse every time, and go *DOH*..


Usually, it's my fiero that starts the blue streak though..

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: trying to think of anyone I have NOT posted insensitively about.....

I don't thnk I have ever thought someone was being "insensitive" to me.
I always just thought they were either just intentionally being mean azzholes, or that was just the way they expressed themselves, with no intent of hurt behind it.

Either way, people are them & I am me.
And in EVERY SINGLE case, I am the better of the two.

quote Originally posted by aaronkoch: The insensitivity is a symptom, not a root cause.

Well, absolutely. And I'll talk about that.

Essentially it is a fundamental failure to be loving to people (in this case, the "love" being expressed as compassion).

And regarding insensitivity, here is the Bible instruction on what TO do:

Romans 12:15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.


Take time to care enough about people to pay attention to what THEY care about and find important, and match your level of interest and excitement to theirs. Or on the weeping side, it doesn't matter if what they are going through would make YOU sad. Just understand that it makes THEM sad, and try to match your level of interest and sympathy to the intensity THEY place on it.


So on the rejoicing side of insensitivity, someone on here posts they are excited they got a different car. Being mean is: "That thing is a piece of junk." Being insensitive might be: "oh, those require a LOT of maintenance. They have LOTS of issues."

Hey, it may be TRUE that they have a lot of issues and require a lot of maintenance. That isn't the point. The point is THEY are excited about it. Even if YOU wouldn't be excited about it, still...THEY ARE REJOICING. REJOICE WITH THEM FOR A WHILE. You can drop the bomb on them about the maintenance issues later if you feel that strongly about it.


There have been people that have posted about cars they got on the forum here, and my personal interest level in owning that care would be zero. Just not my taste. But the root of the issue is IT ISN'T ABOUT ME. It is about THEIR excitement. So it isn't phony or hypocritical, even though I don't like the car, for me to post: "Hey, congratulations. I'm really excited for you."

So I do post like that.


There are many of you on the forum that don't believe the Bible is true, or if you do, don't care about it, etc. I understand that. But on a PRACTICAL level, I'm trying to work with the 50 to 60 guys and help them not be "more religious", but to be better, more skilled husbands and fathers and co-workers and neighbors and friends. And that should spill over to people that believe the Bible and go to church, AND those that don't.

So those of you that throw out ideas, or life experiences, you can help other people you may never meet, and create a ripple effect that goes pretty far.

But that is a LOT of what happens on this forum in MANY areas. Lots of good hearted people from different backgrounds voluntarily helping others they may never meet face to face. Pretty special, really, if you think about it.

some other verses to use too

Rebuke not an elder, but intreat [him] as a father; [and] the younger men as brethren; The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.
1 Timothy 5:1-2

Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
1 Peter 5:5

Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity..
1 Timothy 4:12

Right after our first child my wife and her sister went up to the mountains to show the baby to her father.
My mother-in-law calls and says they went off of the road and hit the side of the mountain.
I waited for her to give me the details, but she said nothing.
My heart sank, fearing the worst, and not wanting to hear the word dead, I asked how bad was the car damaged.
All I heard on the other end was, "You are worried about the car"?

Good one, partfiero. You weren't trying to be mean. They took it as insensitive (which it WAS, btw) when it was out of fear and not meanness or even disinterest.


That reminds me of a much less serious situation that I used to do all the time.

My wife would come home with a new blouse or something for the house or whatever and would be all excited about it and my first response was always, "How much was it?"

I wasn't trying to be mean. It wasn't even about the money. It really was about that she (and I) are good shoppers and so I was going to be excited for her, but I wanted the excitement to be about how good a deal she got and what a wise shopper she was. SHE wanted the excitement to be about the object itself.

I can't remember how many years of marriage it took me to learn THAT one. More than 3. Less than 8.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: You want examples of insensitivity go to RFT .

Can't-- Stimpy cleaned up the RFT Vs Teh World section.

My example:

Suicide hotline, hold please.

or egging a kid on by "mock crying' with them.

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 04-09-2010).]

quote Originally posted by htexans1: Can't-- Stimpy cleaned up the RFT Vs Teh World section. My example: Suicide hotline, hold please. or egging a kid on by "mock crying' with them.

or egging a kid

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Good one, partfiero. You weren't trying to be mean. They took it as insensitive (which it WAS, btw) when it was out of fear and not meanness or even disinterest. That reminds me of a much less serious situation that I used to do all the time. My wife would come home with a new blouse or something for the house or whatever and would be all excited about it and my first response was always, "How much was it?" I wasn't trying to be mean. It wasn't even about the money. It really was about that she (and I) are good shoppers and so I was going to be excited for her, but I wanted the excitement to be about how good a deal she got and what a wise shopper she was. SHE wanted the excitement to be about the object itself. I can't remember how many years of marriage it took me to learn THAT one. More than 3. Less than 8.

Forty two years and that is still my first question, slow learner.
Of course, she has no idea anyway, so the question is more of a throwaway.

Does anyone know if it is insensitive to ask, "Are you having your period or something?"

no just Suicideal


but basic insensitivity is the neo-con's program

------------------
Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

Insensitive?

Asking a widow out at her husband's funeral.

Asking a chemo patient which conditioner is best.

Telling a dwarf to hand you something off of the top shelf.

Asking for swimming lessons from a Mexican before you know if they even know how to swim.

Saying to someone that just had their dog die, "there are plenty of free ones at the pound."

Hiding your dog every time your Asian neighbor comes over.

Asking a woman that just had a miscarriage if you can have all of their baby stuff.

Going to a date rape victim support group to ask women out.

Telling a poor child that Santa Claus loves rich kdis more than them.

Asking a black person to smile so you can find them in the dark.

Telling a blind person that they just can't "see" your point of view.

Asking a Japanese immigrant to repeat, "election" over and over.

A woman here at work recently got her hair cut very short; I told her it makes the gray more visible. She wasn't too happy.

quote Originally posted by css9450: A woman here at work recently got her hair cut very short; I told her it makes the gray more visible. She wasn't too happy.

SO ???

she made the choice to get it cut..........If she dont like the results, it aint yer problem.

quote Originally posted by ray b: no just Suicideal but basic insensitivity is the neo-con's program

I missed where he marked this political.