heard that also..... we can only hope. I wonder if Obama read the Constitution or just grabbed the crib notes.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: I hear there are some rumblings that it may be unconstitutional for the Federal Government to force people to buy health insurance. Even if these Bozos can even pass this monster, it may die a slow death in the halls of justice.

Yes--I read a long article on it the other day. Kinda iffy imo. It has to do with the federal govt's constitutional authority (or lack of it) to force US citizens to engage in private commerce (purchase things). It had some links to the US code that were relevant, but I didn't read them, since I'm on dialup.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Neptune is just a liberal at heart and his lifestyle conflicts with other priorities and he is upset with it. I am not rich, but I have my priorities straight. J.

You aren't half as smart as you want your PFF right wing cronies to believe.
You have obviously made some ASSumptions about my lifestyle.

My lifestyle?
Hard work.
As much time outdoors as I can manage.
Bicycle to the store when I can.
No cigarettes.
No drugs.
Healthy food that I cook myself, usually.
I have health insurance, but I did without it for a few years.
Oh. I know how to spell.

This time, reasonable people would perhaps think YOU to be the dummy.

More from my favorite Representative about the republic party plan for health care reform in the USA:

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 10-01-2009).]

Really, if you work so hard, why do you want the government to provide everything for you? As for me... no dummy here, I went to college at a big ten university, earned my B.S., worked for one of the largest chemical companies in the US and then changed careers to something more "enjoyable". I don't bike to work, I enjoy my purchases and drive them.

BTW, reasonable people will see that I don't want the government to provide everything in life.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: You aren't half as smart as you want your cronies to believe. My lifestyle? Hard work. As much time outdoors as I can manage. Bicycle to the store when I can. No cigarettes. No drugs. Healthy food. This time, reasonable people would perhaps think YOU to be the dummy. More from my favorite Representative about the republic party plan for health care reform in the USA:

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: You aren't half as smart as you want your cronies to believe. My lifestyle? Hard work. As much time outdoors as I can manage. Bicycle to the store when I can. No cigarettes. No drugs. Healthy food. This time, reasonable people would perhaps think YOU to be the dummy. More from my favorite Representative about the republic party plan for health care reform in the USA:

Is this the only accomplishment that the dems can tout so far?
Just pass the bill if you have the votes. We don't want to see Ms. Polosi cry again.
The D party is unraveling at the seams.
The dem politicians have also called the American people every name in the book, very childlike.
And it is the first time I can ever remember this happening on either side of the isle, at least in the open.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: I'm not going to argue with you cliff.

I would think not. Your position is untenable.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: I hear there are some rumblings that it may be unconstitutional for the Federal Government to force people to buy health insurance. Even if these Bozos can even pass this monster, it may die a slow death in the halls of justice.

And the totally NOT funny part is they have known dam well all along.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: And the totally NOT funny part is they have known dam well all along.

After all he is a Constitutional Lawyer.
Don't think in our nations history that the federal government has ever forced us to purchase anything.
There is no precedence, so it will have a tough time passing the challenge.
They have asked us to buy into things, like buying into the premise that the government can run our health care.
Most ain't buying it.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Come on. You are going to label a 350 year old world renown ivy league institution, either conservative or liberal? That's not accurate either way, all higher learning institutions are filled with plenty of liberals to be sure, but they also go out of their way to find the greatest minds regardless of political leanings.

Conn, I know that you don't want no part of me, so I ask that you ask yourself. Would the greatest minds that they find be subject to their core agenda ? General Motors had a vision. They hired one of the best. John Delorean. They would not let him preach.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Conn, I know that you don't want no part of me, so I ask that you ask yourself. Would the greatest minds that they find be subject to their core agenda ? General Motors had a vision. They hired one of the best. John Delorean. They would not let him preach.

Huh?

quote Originally posted by partfiero: I hear there are some rumblings that it may be unconstitutional for the Federal Government to force people to buy health insurance.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: ..... It has to do with the federal govt's constitutional authority (or lack of it) to force US citizens to engage in private commerce (purchase things).

Don, that is just but one Constitutional challenge. They are doing it under the guise of their Interstate Commerce catch all authority. 'Cept, if you don't buy something, how can it apply ?
The next Constitutional challenge, is forced behavior. The last time that happened, it took a Constitutional Amendment. Which was Prohibition. We all know how well that went over.
Another Constitutional challenge, perhaps in the same vein, is the Tenth Amendment challenge. The Tenth Amendment restates the Constitution's principle of federalism by providing that powers not granted to the national government nor prohibited to the states are reserved to the states or the people. Nowhere in the Constitution does it give powers to our Federal government to force behavior. Some states are passing ?mandates?, exercising state rights, shielding their citizens from the regime.

Another thought, . You don't get the government health insurance, you get a $1900.00 fine. If you don't pay that, the IRS fines you $2,500.00. No tax increase here, not at all. Even some Dumbs are admitting it to be an excise tax.
EDIT
I uhh described one of which you already mentioned.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 10-01-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Cliff: I didn't expect you to figure it out. How can I help you ? You need it.

I speak and write pretty good English.
Sorry, but I couldn't make any sense out your post.

You asked me, I told you.

(I'll wait for the name calling to begin, knowing that you can only neg me ONCE)


------------------

Mean People Suck

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 10-01-2009).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: .... knowing that you can only neg me ONCE)

Huh ?
I still have you at a pre-programmed neutral. Just changed it to a positive.
I really do not see why you could not understand my point. Conn suggests that a college can not be a liberal college because they hire the best minds.
I say that they can fire them also.

Obama lied, grandma died... nuff said.

also inb4 trash.

The righteous indignation form the Right concerning the false death panels from a sitting Governor... nothing.

Yeah, this whole thing is being escalated to immature levels because of the unapologetic falsehoods about Obamacare killing grandma or setting up death panels or giving illegals access to health care.

And calling Obama Hitler for creating an optional health care system? What garbage. Alan Grayson is delivering your own medicine.
Hope you enjoy it 'cause he's getting a lot of attention and he's not backing down.

quote Originally posted by rpro: Florida Representative Alan Grayson went over the top with this statement. I urge all of you to write this moron and let him know how you feel... I just sent him a scathing email. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-usmvYOPfco Here is his contact form. https://forms.house.gov/grayson/contact-form.shtml

Actually, I do enjoy it. The more angst and division created, the faster a fall will occur. Garyson "may" keep his job come election time, and they may indeed be able to push thru a healthcare reform scam before yrs end, but eventually, the ratio in congress will change, and all that will be needed to effectively end this intrusion into personal lives, is for congress to simply withold funding.
That's all--they won't have to repeal it, change it, or anything else--just fail to include funding in the federal budget it one year--and poof--it's done with.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Actually, I do enjoy it. The more angst and division created, the faster a fall will occur. Garyson "may" keep his job come election time, and they may indeed be able to push thru a healthcare reform scam before yrs end, but eventually, the ratio in congress will change, and all that will be needed to effectively end this intrusion into personal lives, is for congress to simply withold funding. That's all--they won't have to repeal it, change it, or anything else--just fail to include funding in the federal budget it one year--and poof--it's done with.

It's passing MJ. You watch and see.

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: The righteous indignation form the Right concerning the false death panels from a sitting Governor... nothing. Yeah, this whole thing is being escalated to immature levels because of the unapologetic falsehoods about Obamacare killing grandma or setting up death panels or giving illegals access to health care. And calling Obama Hitler for creating an optional health care system? What garbage. Alan Grayson is delivering your own medicine. Hope you enjoy it 'cause he's getting a lot of attention and he's not backing down.

When the right has said stuff in an egregious way, I have called it out. When the right has criticized Obama over stupid stuff, I have called it out (example--Obama isn't an american citizen).

When Joe Wilson shouted out during the president's speech, many of the right voiced their displeasure over it, and many in his party did.


Here is the difference: Joe Wilson APOLOGIZED. He acknowledged that his emotions got the best of him, and it was wrong, and he said he was sorry.

And all Wilson said was the Obama lied. Grayson says it is a republican PLAN for people to die quickly. Then he issued his "apology". Yeah. That was a farce, and another opportunity for him to repeat his lie.


Obama doesn't want to kill grandma. Egregious.

His plan WILL cut health resources available to grandma if you look at the "plan". He SAYS it won't. The reality amongst people like myself who actually have to do the work--it WILL. And it isn't even a close call. And I'm not saying it is wrong to take health resources away from grandma. That can be part of the debate. But at least lets be honest and up front about it. And if not having as much resources equals death, such as Grayson is claiming based on his quoted HARVARD "study", then according to Grayson, Obama's plan is to have grandma die quickly.


Regarding the use of the term death panels, I have tried to DEFINE that over and over and over. I have been against the use of the term, and use the REAL issue, which, yes, there WILL be government CZARS choosing what level of care you get. That isn't a death panel. It will ultimately result in them making some choices that will determine some people dying more quickly. But I personally wouldn't go so far as to call it a death panel.


Regarding giving health care to illegal aliens, it isn't part of "the plan". The plan is to ignore the enforcement of the law, which is typical of democrats. You know. Like we have voting regulations. But we just use firms like ACORN to circumvent the law. On the point of illegal aliens, though, Bush and many republicans ALSO shirked their responsibility to deal with illegal aliens and ignored it. So it certainly CAN be a bipartisan failure. But on the health care issue, that is the eventual reality. So that criticism is deserved, but yes, Obama and democrats, by all means try to hide behind the LETTER of the law when you know what is actually going to happen. You are mostly lawyers. What did you expect?

I would never call Obama Hitler due to the health care proposal. It is enough to call a national socialist a socialist. No need to drag Hitler into it. But just because someone SAYS it is an OPTIONAL health care plan--uh, if you have to pay a "fine" equivalent to the cost of you buying the health care plan if you opt out of it. Don't be such a sucker. It isn't optional then. Really. Come on. Well, yeah, but they SAID it was optional. Come on. Use your brain.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: It's passing MJ. You watch and see.

And you REALLY think that's a good thing? Especially with the public option, which has Obama's intention of eliminating private insurance completely? You think that's GOOD?

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: My lifestyle? Hard work. As much time outdoors as I can manage. Bicycle to the store when I can. No cigarettes. No drugs. Healthy food that I cook myself, usually. I have health insurance, but I did without it for a few years. Oh. I know how to spell.

Hey Neptune, I know we disagree on almost all things political. But we are in total agreement on those things. I think that is fantastic. And I envy your geography that allows you to do it. My bicycling, for example, is wrapping up for until about next June! Brr and grr.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: And you REALLY think that's a good thing? Especially with the public option, which has Obama's intention of eliminating private insurance completely? You think that's GOOD?

I don't accept your presumptions, but yes to the reality of what's happening. And I have Aetna. I also have watched my rates increase by more than double over the past few years. I remember when I used to pay $5 copays. Now it's $25.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: It's passing MJ. You watch and see.

Oh, I'm sure it will.
But, it won't last.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Regarding the use of the term death panels, I have tried to DEFINE that over and over and over. I have been against the use of the term, and use the REAL issue, which, yes, there WILL be government CZARS choosing what level of care you get. That isn't a death panel. It will ultimately result in them making some choices that will determine some people dying more quickly. But I personally wouldn't go so far as to call it a death panel.

Let's not forget Ezekiel Emanuel, who is an advisor to the President...

"Currently, Emanuel is acting as Special Advisor for Health Policy to Peter Orszag, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget.[10] The Office of Management and Budget's role is to assist the White House in the preparation and administration of the federal budget.[11] Emanuel entered the administration with different views from the president on how to reform health care, but is said by colleagues to be working for the White House goals"

He came up with this graph to put a value on amount of health care versus age:

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Hey, don't get me wrong. Healthcare needs work. But ending private insurance? I can't sign onto that plan. And we have the President (as well as a couple other Democrats') own words telling us that's the eventual goal.

Nobody is talking about ending private insurance. Even IF the public option is passed, it would only be accessible to those who currently don;t have insurance. That means small business employers and employees, restaurant workers, etc.. If the public plan is self sufficient without any government funds other than start up cost, I like that idea.

You have the government competing with private industry... Which business will have unlimited money available? Who you really think will win... wait, I will tell you... the government. How in the world would the public plan be self sufficient? You have to be kidding yourself to believe that if you offer up cheap/free health care that it will be self sufficient.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Nobody is talking about ending private insurance. Even IF the public option is passed, it would only be accessible to those who currently don;t have insurance. That means small business employers and employees, restaurant workers, etc.. If the public plan is self sufficient without any government funds other than start up cost, I like that idea.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: You have the government competing with private industry... Which business will have unlimited money available? Who you really think will win... wait, I will tell you... the government. How in the world would the public plan be self sufficient? You have to be kidding yourself to believe that if you offer up cheap/free health care that it will be self sufficient.

What about medicare? How is it the private insurance industry is still around? How is UPS and FedEX still profitable when the Post Office exists? How is that public schools coexist with private schools? What about state colleges existing when private colleges are growing like hellfire? How about the FACT that your side ALWAYS overlooks these glaring examples of a public/private mix of industry?

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: If the public plan is self sufficient without any government funds other than start up cost, I like that idea.

It is really SO cute how naive you are. And I mean that. But unfortunately, it makes you sign on to something that isn't reality.

You say that "IF" the public plan, like it has ANY realistic possibility. It DOESN'T. And NOT because I say so. The congressional budget office has weighed in on this already.


And BTW, you mentioned you didn't like the increases in your insurance costs, which is totally understandable.

You think a government plan is going to make the increases slow down??????
What is WITH people????

Look. There is a fundamental problem going on here.

IS THE ISSUE ABOUT THE COST OF HEALTH CARE IN THE U.S. OR IS IT ABOUT MAKING SURE EVERYONE IS INSURED???

Now someone TELL me.

Because THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS AND SOLUTIONS AND OUTCOMES.


If the government gets into making health care costs slow down and provide a more affordable option, health care costs will RISE significantly.


If the government gets involved in making all people are insured, COSTS WILL ASTRONOMICALLY SKYROCKET.


Make no mistake. There is a REASON that Obama and the democrats can't really tell you whether they are addressing the costs of health care, or whether they are addressing covering all americans---THAT ISN'T THEIR AGENDA.

If it WAS, they would focus on it.

Their REAL agenda is the nationalization (socialist take-over) of ALL health care. So they just are looking for "crises" to use as an EXCUSE to get people to sign on to the takeover. So they talk about the COST crisis. Then they talk about the CRISIS of 44,789 people dying each year because of COVERAGE.

It really doesn't matter to them. EITHER is an excuse for the takeover, which is the real issue.


But you have reasonable people like connecticutFiero. You have to give him a REASON for getting the foot in the door toward the takeover. So you try to SUCKER him with, ohh, no, it is just an OPTION.

Please. Don't be naive. They have given ABUNDANT evidence of their agenda. Just like their was ABUNDANT evidence during the campaign that Obama isn't a proponent of a constitutional democratic republic. He is a socialist. What did you EXPECT he would do? But, then, what did you EXPECT he is working toward with the health care issue?

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: What about medicare? How is it the private insurance industry is still around? How is UPS and FedEX still profitable when the Post Office exists? How is that public schools coexist with private schools? What about state colleges existing when private colleges are growing like hellfire? How about the FACT that your side ALWAYS overlooks these glaring examples of a public/private mix of industry?

there is always the "next level" for those who want a bit more than "the common man"

but, the real Q is: being insurance is actually a non-productive industry - does it really matter? it produces NOTHING.
why would we care about protecting non-productive jobs, when we dont care about protecting productive jobs?

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: It is really SO cute how naive you are. And I mean that. But unfortunately, it makes you sign on to something that isn't reality. You say that "IF" the public plan, like it has ANY realistic possibility. It DOESN'T. And NOT because I say so. The congressional budget office has weighed in on this already. And BTW, you mentioned you didn't like the increases in your insurance costs, which is totally understandable. You think a government plan is going to make the increases slow down?????? What is WITH people???? Look. There is a fundamental problem going on here. IS THE ISSUE ABOUT THE COST OF HEALTH CARE IN THE U.S. OR IS IT ABOUT MAKING SURE EVERYONE IS INSURED??? Now someone TELL me. Because THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS AND SOLUTIONS AND OUTCOMES. If the government gets into making health care costs slow down and provide a more affordable option, health care costs will RISE significantly. If the government gets involved in making all people are insured, COSTS WILL ASTRONOMICALLY SKYROCKET. Make no mistake. There is a REASON that Obama and the democrats can't really tell you whether they are addressing the costs of health care, or whether they are addressing covering all americans---THAT ISN'T THEIR AGENDA. If it WAS, they would focus on it. Their REAL agenda is the nationalization (socialist take-over) of ALL health care. So they just are looking for "crises" to use as an EXCUSE to get people to sign on to the takeover. So they talk about the COST crisis. Then they talk about the CRISIS of 44,789 people dying each year because of COVERAGE. It really doesn't matter to them. EITHER is an excuse for the takeover, which is the real issue. But you have reasonable people like connecticutFiero. You have to give him a REASON for getting the foot in the door toward the takeover. So you try to SUCKER him with, ohh, no, it is just an OPTION. Please. Don't be naive. They have given ABUNDANT evidence of their agenda. Just like their was ABUNDANT evidence during the campaign that Obama isn't a proponent of a constitutional democratic republic. He is a socialist. What did you EXPECT he would do? But, then, what did you EXPECT he is working toward with the health care issue?

Don't be condescending to me. I don't accept your premise on the motive of the public option, and I certainly don't agree with your view of healthcare. And neither do most of your colleagues apparently. Do you really think you're so much smarter than the majority of your fellow physicians, and that only conservative republican physicians have the answer? Why do they support the public option if it's a trojan horse for a socialist takeover of healthcare? Are you saying most physicians are either stupid or socialists?

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 10-02-2009).]

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Nobody is talking about ending private insurance. Even IF the public option is passed, it would only be accessible to those who currently don;t have insurance. That means small business employers and employees, restaurant workers, etc.. If the public plan is self sufficient without any government funds other than start up cost, I like that idea.

Ending priavte insurance whether it be a side effect or the overall goal. I think would be the end of the path they are begging us to take.

Only accessible to those that don't have insurance? So people won't drop their current insurance to get it if it is cheaper?

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Don't be condescending to me. I don't accept your premise on the motive of the public option, and I certainly don't agree with your view of healthcare. And neither do most of your colleagues apparently. Do you really think you're so much smarter than the majority of your fellow physicians, and that only conservative republican physicians have the answer? Why do they support the public option if it's a trojan horse for a socialist takeover of healthcare? Are you saying most physicians are either stupid or socialists?

I don't BLAME you for not knowing the minds of physicians. I DO blame you for not being able to see the motive for the public option. If it isn't apparent to you now, it is because you don't WANT to. The racist guy they just booted out of the administration blatantly came out and SAID that they will just accept whatever level they can get at first. And HE said, but make no mistake about it, that isn't what they are shooting for. It is just a stepping stone toward the ultimate goal.

Regarding physicians, I am around them EVERY DAY for the past THIRTY YEARS. You know what YOU have? ONE poll done by the Robert Wood Foundation asking a VAGUE question with THREE choices. And you jump on that and extrapolate to they SUPPORT the public option.


The question showed that they would support "A" public OPTION. They CAN'T support THE public option, because to this day no one knows what it is.

AFTER there was a plan that was open to everyone's study, THEN let's do a poll. Oh wait. The administration that was going to be all about OPENNESS has REFUSED to open up to the public about what it would entail.


Regarding physicians, many of them are democrats. Probably half. Many are liberals. Probably half. Some are socialists. Probably 10%.

Well, about 67% "supported" a public option. Well, as mentioned above, that was IN THEORY.

So are the 17% of republican physicians stupid? Well, politically, some are. And some are naive, like you. And some are pragmatic fatalists, beaten down by government programs like medicare and give up to the bullying. But many of them are just....BUSY.

Like a lot of actual PRODUCERS in this country, they don't WANT to be political. They just want to WORK. And they aren't paying attention. And so, do you support a public option? Uh, sure. Sounds fine. Whatever. They aren't paying attention to the consequences because they ACTUALLY HAVE WORK to get back to.

Regarding the question:

Do you really think you're so much smarter than the majority of your fellow physicians? Well, thanks for putting me in the spot to have to answer that question. Uh, YES. I was AOA honor society. Top 10 or 20 in my class of 300. Voted BY MY OWN CLASS as the classmate they would go to if they became sick and needed to see someone from their own class. On the board of directors of a 300 member clinic. Voted one of Milwaukee's best doctors 3 different years. Did clinical research 15 years. Clinical teaching faculty of Medical College of Wisconsin 15 years.

So, yes, I do. But that doesn't matter. All those other people think so. But I don't like to drag that out, but you asked.


And do only conservative republican physicians have the answer? I don't know that the republican part has to be part of the equation. But conservative physicians have the ideology necessary (as do SOME politicians) AND have the intimate working knowledge of the day to day system and issues, in order to construct a successful plan.

As I have mentioned SEVERAL times. My organization--NUMBER 1 ACCORDING TO MEDICARE in lowest cost to provide care IN THE COUNTRY. We have reduced costs for the last 8 years running.

We are DOING what people want. Lower health care cost.

What the government is talking about doing wouldn't work, can't work, isn't going to work. How do I know? Because I LIVE it and WE HAVE DONE IT.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: They don't. Also is there only one version of a public option?

http://www.npr.org/template...hp?storyId=112818960

Poll Finds Most Doctors Support Public Option

Majority Of Physicians Want Public And Private Insurance Options


Among all the players in the health care debate, doctors may be the least understood about where they stand on some of the key issues around changing the health care system. Now, a new survey finds some surprising results: A large majority of doctors say there should be a public option.

When polled, "nearly three-quarters of physicians supported some form of a public option, either alone or in combination with private insurance options," says Dr. Salomeh Keyhani. She and Dr. Alex Federman, both internists and researchers at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York, conducted a random survey, by mail and by phone, of 2,130 doctors. They surveyed them from June right up to early September.
Chart: 62.9 percent of doctors supported public and private options; 27.3 percent, private-only option

Another 'study'. Another 'survey'.

from comments:

quote This is completely unbelievable. I am a medical resident and I have yet to meet a single doctor who supports a government-run health insurance plan to compete with the private ones. When private insurance companies jerk doctors around, there's always have the option of dropping them. When the government runs the show, there's no such recourse. Something's fishy about this survey.

I for one, would like to hear the questions asked--exactly as they were worded.
Why?
"If healthcare reform has to be done-would you support a public option as part of it?"

"Do you support healthcare reform with tort reform along with a public option?

"Do you support a public option"

In other words--how the question is worded affects the answer.

How many of the doctor's in that survey were not in favor of healthcare reform at all?

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: http://www.npr.org/template...hp?storyId=112818960 Poll Finds Most Doctors Support Public Option

Phooey on the partisan sources.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Taken from Investors Business Daily. Here's some change you can believe in Jeremiah. At least compared to your assertion. There is no political agenda associated with this poll, but the colors are just as pretty.

Conn, that survey was brought up before, it is unclear and skewed beyond belief.
It seemed to show that the majority of doctors did not want Obamas plan if I remeber correctly.
Here's the thread
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/068218.html

"When polled, "nearly three-quarters of physicians supported some form of a public option, either alone or in combination with private insurance options,"

Some form? But not Obama's plan?

FieroSTS wrote: "it looks like only 10% support a public only option. 63% a combination like we currently have."

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 10-02-2009).]

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Nobody is talking about ending private insurance. Even IF the public option is passed, it would only be accessible to those who currently don;t have insurance. That means small business employers and employees, restaurant workers, etc.. If the public plan is self sufficient without any government funds other than start up cost, I like that idea.

WRONG. Obama and the others in that video said that EVENTUALLY they want "single payer", which means no private insurance.