Here is a story that they raided a cruise night in Riverside California.
http://thenewspaper.com/news/23/2302.asp

California: Police Raid Car Enthusiast Gathering, Generate Revenue
Police raid Riverside, California parking lot to issue modified car tickets at local car enthusiast gathering.
Using $503,000 in federal and state gas tax revenue to pay for overtime, nine police agencies in Riverside, California sent more than one hundred police officers to surround a gathering of automotive enthusiasts. Owners of imported sport compact cars had gathered at the Canyon Crossing shopping center on Friday night to swap stories, talk about their passion for cars and show off the latest enhancements to their rides. At around 11pm police surprised participants by blocking all exits with fifty police cruisers. Officers then began a warrantless search and interrogation operation of the 150 vehicles that were present.

"If you're not into street racing, why would you need that?" Riverside Police Traffic Sergeant Skip Showalter asked an enthusiast during a similar crackdown last year. "Why would you want more power going to your car?"

Police issued a total of forty-eight tickets for "engine modifications" with police accusing the owners of the parked vehicles of being street racers. Another fifty tickets were issued for paperwork violations, dark window tinting and lack of a front license plate. The most revenue, however, will be generated from the fees imposed on twenty vehicles that were confiscated. Despite labeling the parking lot raid as taking place at a "street racing venue," Riverside Police offered no evidence that any street racing actually took place.

Across the state, gas tax funds are regularly used to fund similar crackdowns that generate big revenue. In 2004, the California Highway Patrol issued a total of 101,553 "modified car" citations worth $10.5 million according to CHP data obtained by TheNewspaper.

Other law enforcement agencies participating in Friday night's raid included the California Highway Patrol, Riverside County Sheriff's Department, and police from Baldwin Park, Fontana, Irwindale, Moreno Valley, Ontario and Mount San Jacinto Community College.



I guess this would be yet another reason not to live there.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 04-06-2008).]

Exactly.

Use of gas taxes for this makes it even worse.

I wouldn't live in California, way too many laws.

Notice how they busted IMPORT SPORT COMPACTS, not the Domestic street rods that also cruise in Riverside?

If your gonna "Bust 'em" bust them all equally.

I left the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia in the 1990s. I never looked back.

Same thing happened in a WalMart parking lot in of all places, Houston Texas, a couple of years ago. What I cant believe is that people let the cops search without a warrant. If that were to happen to me, I think I would enjoy getting the cops to find a judge to sign a warrant to search under my hood and in my car on the basis that it is parked in a parking lot with other cars.

I found another article on the story. Kind of spins it a little differently.
http://www.pe.com/localnews...trace01.4234d9b.html
It seems that it wasn't a "sponsored" cruise night. Just a bunch of imports took over a parking lot and acted like a bunch of idiots racing thru the parking lot and disrupting businesses. I wonder if this is the reason I don't see many imports at regular sponsored cruise nights around here? Many of the cruise nights around here are sponsored by a business (or businesses) and most folks act accordingly. Usually if someone causes trouble the rest of the folks at the cruise nights give them a hard time or ask them to leave.

Although the searches and such may have been questionable, If you are going to act like an idiot and tick off the businesses, They will call the Police.

I dont even want to go to california anymore.... never been there, but with all the laws I think I'd be afraid of breaking one I didnt know about, I hate places like that... and thats the whole state...

quote Originally posted by AJ7: I dont even want to go to california anymore.... never been there, but with all the laws I think I'd be afraid of breaking one I didnt know about, I hate places like that... and thats the whole state...

I grew up in Central CA (Fresno area). It isn't all bad. So far it has been the most beautiful place I've ever been. From my house I could be in Sequoia or Kings Canyon Forests after about 45 minutes of spirited driving. I left because it was so expensive to live there, I was working as a machinist's assistant and barely making it by. But I will agree that they have gone so far left that they cannot even SEE the center anymore. It's sad, really. I left because of money, but I won't move back because of politics...

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 04-06-2008).]

Well, first of all, stay out of Southern California. It is a shithole that I won't visit, and I'm a native. Secondly, it pays to be white. I'm 41 and have never even been handcuffed, much less arrested. And it is not because of clean living, either. Provided that you are white and employed, you have to try pretty hard to go to jail.

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: Well, first of all, stay out of Southern California. It is a shithole that I won't visit, and I'm a native. Secondly, it pays to be white. I'm 41 and have never even been handcuffed, much less arrested. And it is not because of clean living, either. Provided that you are white and employed, you have to try pretty hard to go to jail.

Coming from you that says a lot (j/k) Hey I couldn't help myself.

I too left Kali. in the early 90's and haven't looked back, I have a sister in Sacramento, and I can't help wondering how badly she has held herself back by staying there.

Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe

I'll probably move to Arizona to get out of this $hitty state. What they need to do is gather those police and send them to a Home Depot here or any other place illegal day laborers hang out to check for green cards.....Maybe then, my taxes will go to cleaning the illegal scum out of California.

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: Well, first of all, stay out of Southern California. It is a shithole that I won't visit, and I'm a native. Secondly, it pays to be white. I'm 41 and have never even been handcuffed, much less arrested. And it is not because of clean living, either. Provided that you are white and employed, you have to try pretty hard to go to jail.

You forgot one item; don't drive an import with rims or appears rice d' up. Otherwise the cops will perform the same tactics on a white person alone or in a group.

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: What they need to do is gather those police and send them to a Home Depot here or any other place illegal day laborers hang out to check for green cards.....Maybe then, my taxes will go to cleaning the illegal scum out of California.

No revenue for our lovely state of CA and our hand puppet officials being manipulated by companies and lobbyist. It's a darn shame (that I'm targeted DWB by corrupted officers) and import kids gatherings, whilst illegal ride around w/o drivers license, break federal and states laws.

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"Friends don't let friends drive stock"

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 04-06-2008).]

Madcurl, mabye you should move your Van (and Fieros) down by a river....in Nevada or Arizona.

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 04-06-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: http://www.pe.com/localnews...trace01.4234d9b.html

Wow!! That's a 180* reversed spin of that story.

Thanks for posting it. I like reading opposing viewpoints, I had many teachers growing up that drilled that into me. As they say "the truth lies somewhere in the middle"

Wonder if the local news story was "sponsored" or "hinted" at by local law enforcement. While the more national story didn't have to endure that "pleasure". We all know that media tends to throw bias towards their "sponsors" or have to keep whoever provides a steady stream of material (news) happy.

Curly, sadly I have to agree. I have too many friends that learned firsthand DWB is not a myth. Regardless of income, clothing, cars driven.
On a sidenote:
The movie "crash" is sadly a fairly accurate representation of reality.

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: (kind of reminds me of sharks hunting prey. )

That totally depends on your perspective Max.

A favorite song of mine goes:

"There's three sides to every story; your's, mine and the truth."

Sounds like the raid was a bit excessive, but it also sounds like the car guys invited the problem, and frankly, if they were dumb enough to let their cars be searched without warrants, they deserved whatever tickets they got. Tint too dark and no front plate are both fix it tickets, there's no revenue to be made there.

I think this story is a little over the top.
anyone who's ever been to a "real" car show/swap meet/gathering/etc - knows its over at dark.
11pm? that was not a "real" event. real events happen in secured parking lots, and those who lend out their lots want people out by dark for liability reasons. these people at the lightest were loitering. and - I would bet it dont stop there.

tho, I do beleive, we as US citizens, have the right to assembly.

"If you're not into street racing, why would you need that?" simpletons....

Heres something I heard over the weekend at a car show. This is one of the members here that has a kitcar thats not a model of any real car (one of Archies). Local Gestapo (AKA Gahanna Police) told him his car has no emblems or name plates. They apparently ordered him to install name brand plates on it to drive it. Im thinking now I cant drive my 1966 Dodge thru there. All the name plates and badges are removed so its now illegal apparently . I told him I think Id take that one to court. But some people accept the fact just to not get hassled.

.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-05-2008).]

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Heres something I heard over the weekend at a car show. This is one of the members here that has a kitcar thats not a model of any real car (one of Archies). Local Gestapo (AKA Gahanna Police) told him his car has no emblems or name plates. They apparently ordered him to install name brand plates on it to drive it. Im thinking now I cant drive my 1966 Dodge thru there. All the name plates and badges are removed so its now illegal apparently . I told him I think Id take that one to court. But some people accept the fact just to not get hassled.

Wow. Giving out tickets cause of no name tages, now thats a new one.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: These dozen plus police officers proceeded to interrogate and harrass riders, microinspect their bikes, threatened to arrest at least one girl who was videotaping the officer's aggressive behavior, and in the process nearly created out of nothing a near-riot situation. JazzMan

They've done that too in CA if someone is video tapping officers behaving badly.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 04-07-2008).]

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: That totally depends on your perspective Max.

Very true.

I got lucky to see it from the other side as well. I had a classmate in Junior College/Community College who was a Police officer. He used to give me rides home, since I didn't have a car back then. (In the front of the cruizer - Just pointing that out. ) It was interesting to watch how other drivers behave when they see a cop car. He told me that him and his colleagues refer to that as "cop fever".

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I think this story is a little over the top. anyone who's ever been to a "real" car show/swap meet/gathering/etc - knows its over at dark. 11pm? that was not a "real" event. real events happen in secured parking lots, and those who lend out their lots want people out by dark for liability reasons. these people at the lightest were loitering. and - I would bet it dont stop there. tho, I do beleive, we as US citizens, have the right to assembly.

I might have to come down on the side of the business owner or whoever it is that owned the parking lot. After hours, I wouldn't want a bunch of people hanging around on my private property. Sure, we have the right to peaceably assemble, but heck, even "public" places have rules, such as the posted closing times that most public parks around here have.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Heres something I heard over the weekend at a car show. This is one of the members here that has a kitcar thats not a model of any real car (one of Archies). Local Gestapo (AKA Gahanna Police) told him his car has no emblems or name plates. They apparently ordered him to install name brand plates on it to drive it. Im thinking now I cant drive my 1966 Dodge thru there. All the name plates and badges are removed so its now illegal apparently . I told him I think Id take that one to court. But some people accept the fact just to not get hassled.

Were those cops so idiotic that they use only the nameplate on teh car to determin the model of car? Thats the only stretch I can see them trying to use.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Were those cops so idiotic that they use only the nameplate on teh car to determin the model of car? Thats the only stretch I can see them trying to use.

exactly. on tickets & legal stuff - they often put make/model - and, with a kitcar - that may not exist.

You have to register it right? As a make and model?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: You have to register it right? As a make and model?

my buddy registered his sand rail as a '72 VW beetle.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: It's a darn shame (that I'm targeted DWB by corrupted officers)

This made me laugh. I hadn't heard it for a while. A good friend that I work with used this term when he was targetted/pulled over several times in one week for one light bulb being out on his brake light. He showed the officer all three times that it was a short in the connector and the receipt he had for the new connector on order from his dealership yet the same officer kept pulling him over for the same ol' sh^t.

And I would tend to agree that he was targeted for DWB. Others I worked with that didn't fit this DWB profile had missing tags, burnt out lights, etc and never got stopped on their daily commute.

Here's my perspective on it.

During the months of August through November I helped put out of business five guys, who were responsible for at least forty people losing their Honda/Acura automobiles. These asshats would steal cars with the VTEC motors, or cars built up by their owners with hi-po goodies. They'd yank the motors, trannies and anything else they wanted, and then trash the bodies, just for spite. Why were they doing this? Because people who didn't care about where their parts came from, as long as they got a good "deal," would pay money for performance parts off the stolen cars. With ONE exception, all their customers KNEW they were buying stolen parts.
All of them were members of the local tuner scene, who didn't want to pay legitimate prices for equipment they wanted for their cars. Because of them, people who worked for what they bought were deprived of property and transportation, that they earned and paid for.
That doesn't even begin to address the kids who get killed every year racing on the street.

As far as the warrantless search thing goes? California has laws in place that allow their law enforcement to make emissions equipment compliance checks of any vehicle found driving on the public roadways, which is why they seal the exits to the lot, so that you have to go thru the checkpoint AS YOU ENTER the roadway from the parking lot. As they perform their compliance checks, since at that point they are legally entitled to be under your hood, they also keep their eyes open for things like missing VIN plates, ground-off numbers, and other indicators of stolen property or vehicles. If it's in plain view, where the officer has a legal right to be, then it's not a search (but can be used to obtain a warrant to search further).

A few idiots ALWAYS spoil things for the kids who legitimately want to have a good time with their cars. I've told the kids around here that the best thing for them to do is organize into a legitimate club, and then, as a club, get a business location to host their meetings so they can gather legitimately. They also HAVE to police themselves, otherwise things like the parking lot being trashed by the members, or burnout marks all over the pavement, aren't helpful...

Interesting discussion. Not enough info for me to make a judgement but, I'll bet any citations written hold up in court. Freedom of assembly, not on private property (unless you own the property or are invited in obviously). There are also rules to assembling on public property. I'm not against the kids, we're all guilty to doing things in our lives that were just a little over the line.
They crossed that line when they decided to drive ricers.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-09-2008).]

Yeah right. Do unto others as you don't want them to do unto you. Do judges who drive Mercedes or BMW; are (they) pulled over too? I'm sure if the searches involved cars similar to what they drive; this "targeting" laws would have ended before it got started. What about officers, are they too pulled over and made to open the hood or do they flash their badges and let them pass? There are plenty of exotic car owners in southern CA; I don't here them being herded-up at Lamborghini or Ferrari Pebble Beach meets? If Lamborghini or Ferrari owners where pulled over and herded-up; there would be lawsuits. Period. Violating the rights of one car group victimizes all and leads to further discrimination.

As for illegal gatherings in parking lots is one thing, but "targeting" discrimination continues while driving to and from work. The officer reasons; "Looks like the owner has illegal modification; so lets pull him/her over we might be able to catch him ride n' dirty." After all, they have a "targeting" law on the books. That is the same crap that happened to me while two other normal looking cars were passed-up for my my car. Why? Because it fits their "targeting" criteria. Why in the heck do I need to drive around with a CARB tags (muffler/intake system) inside my glove box?

Give me a freckin break!

------------------




"Friends don't let friends drive stock"

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 04-09-2008).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Yeah right. Do unto others as you don't want them to do unto you. Do judges who drive Mercedes or BMW; are (they) pulled over too? I'm sure if the searches involved cars similar to what they drive; this "targeting" laws would have ended before it got started. What about officers, are they too pulled over and made to open the hood or do they flash their badges and let them pass? There are plenty of exotic car owners in southern CA; I don't here them being herded-up at Lamborghini or Ferrari Pebble Beach meets? If Lamborghini or Ferrari owners where pulled over and herded-up; there would be lawsuits. Period. Violating the rights of one car group victimizes all and leads to further discrimination. Give me a freckin break!

You do realize that I was joking don't you?

quote Originally posted by blackrams: They crossed that line when they decided to drive ricers. Ron

quote Originally posted by blackrams: You do realize that I was joking don't you?

Yes. I know, but I forgot to post the quoted that I intended to use;

quote Originally posted by Vonov: Here's my perspective on it. As far as the warrantless search thing goes? California has laws in place that allow their law enforcement to make emissions equipment compliance checks of any vehicle found driving on the public roadways, which is why they seal the exits to the lot, so that you have to go thru the checkpoint AS YOU ENTER the roadway from the parking lot. As they perform their compliance checks, since at that point they are legally entitled to be under your hood, they also keep their eyes open for things like missing VIN plates, ground-off numbers, and other indicators of stolen property or vehicles. If it's in plain view, where the officer has a legal right to be, then it's not a search (but can be used to obtain a warrant to search further). A few idiots ALWAYS spoil things for the kids who legitimately want to have a good time with their cars. I've told the kids around here that the best thing for them to do is organize into a legitimate club, and then, as a club, get a business location to host their meetings so they can gather legitimately. They also HAVE to police themselves, otherwise things like the parking lot being trashed by the members, or burnout marks all over the pavement, aren't helpful...

Yeah right, "emissions equipment compliance checks" aka discrimination law. Never applied to those whom makes the law. "He who has the gold, makes the rules."

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 04-09-2008).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Yeah right. Do unto others as you don't want them to do unto you. Do judges who drive Mercedes or BMW; are (they) pulled over too? I'm sure if the searches involved cars similar to what they drive; this "targeting" laws would have ended before it got started. What about officers, are they too pulled over and made to open the hood or do they flash their badges and let them pass? There are plenty of exotic car owners in southern CA; I don't here them being herded-up at Lamborghini or Ferrari Pebble Beach meets? If Lamborghini or Ferrari owners where pulled over and herded-up; there would be lawsuits. Period. Violating the rights of one car group victimizes all and leads to further discrimination. As for illegal gatherings in parking lots is one thing, but "targeting" discrimination continues while driving to and from work. The officer reasons; "Looks like the owner has illegal modification; so lets pull him/her over we might be able to catch him ride n' dirty." After all, they have a "targeting" law on the books. That is the same crap that happened to me while two other normal looking cars were passed-up for my my car. Why? Because it fits their "targeting" criteria. Why in the heck do I need to drive around with a CARB tags (muffler/intake system) inside my glove box? Give me a freckin break!

because the owners secured the location for the meet. the property owner was paid. and, I would bet it was over by dark. as most auto events are.

dont want to be treated like a ricer? dont look like one. that simple. just like guys who play dressup dressing like thugs & gansta's getting upset by getting the shakedown.

it is no big secret.

there is no "innocent until proven guilty" when it comes to driving. if something dont look right - it WILL be checked out.

.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-05-2008).]

Discrimination against who, Curly? People who have their cars modified? In that case, maybe---but if a car is modified appearance-wise, chances are, it's modified at least somewhat mechanically. I realize it's annoying (I've been stopped too, and having a badge doesn't make any difference in a lot of cases, especially when you're dealing with state cops) but SOME standard has to be applied as to who you're going to check out, and the owners of stock vehicles rarely indulge in gatherings for the purpose of street racing, nor do they in most cases have stolen engines/trannies under their hoods, as do so many of the street racing crowd. Speed is expensive for the most part, and a lot of those folks just don't care about who it hurts, as long as they get what THEY want.

You've put a LOT of time and expense into your car (one of the top five on this forum); if it had a Honda or Acura nameplate, most likely it'd be gone by now. Would you rather the cops just forget about it while someone else rode around in your car, or their car with your engine, and left you a burnt shell? You've never had to explain to a young couple with a baby on the way that the Civic Si that they bought before they knew they were going to be parents, and are now depending on for transportation to the job that's gonna support that kid, is now sitting in a field, stripped and burnt, when all the kids could afford was liability insurance, just because it had a better motor.

The ringleader of the little group I mentioned earlier? 19 year old jerk, whose mom and dad were paying for his schooling, room and board, and expenses. He was doing it to supplement his spending money, and build up his turbocharged Accord. He stole from both his classmates and people who thought he was their friend.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Here's a problem. "dont want to be treated like a (insert profile here that's different than that of enforcing entity)? dont look like one." What profile should we insert? Black man? Harley Davidson rider? Etc.? The issue is who makes the decision that the way someone looks defines some aspect of their character and behavior. The law is designed specifically to prevent profiling like this simply because this kind of profiling essentially makes it easy for racists, bigots, etc. to use the law to abuse and punish innocent people. there is no "innocent until proven guilty" when it comes to driving. if something dont look right - it WILL be checked out. There is always innocent until proven guilty, without that underpinning our nation is no better than China, the old USSR, Zimbabwe, or any number of other third-world nations. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people forget that the only thing stopping us from backsliding into anarchy and abuse are these basic concepts. Over two centuries ago many people fought and died to create the concepts embodied in the founding of our nation, yet today many of our citizens discard those blood-earned principles without blinking an eye, completely ignorant of how important those principles are. What is wrong with our parents and schools who don't instill these principles into our children? JazzMan

profiling a "ricer" is a huge difference from profiling a nego. a ricer is by choice. that choice does in fact imply aspect of character and behavior. as do other aspects of profiling which include choice of clothing, hairdo, and body modification.

and - yes - "innocent until proven guilty" does not exist for driving/traffic. try and NOT submit to a breathalyzer. you are guilty until you prove otherwise.

[This message has been edited by Pyrthian (edited 04-09-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: because the owners secured the location for the meet. the property owner was paid. and, I would bet it was over by dark. as most auto events are. dont want to be treated like a ricer? dont look like one. that simple. just like guys who play dressup dressing like thugs & gansta's getting upset by getting the shakedown. it is no big secret. there is no "innocent until proven guilty" when it comes to driving. if something dont look right - it WILL be checked out.

While I understand your sentiment you do understand what you are saying don't you. You are implying that a certain kind of person be treated differently. The law is only as good as we want it to be and it can not ever discriminate and still be a rule of law.

Is it somehow illegal to modify your car?