quote Originally posted by aceman: No , it was going to be interesting until the two Bigots/Racists/White Supremists posted.

Call me what you will. Those words have no effect on me. They don't carry the power that the word niggger or lynch carry with you. If the black community is so embarrassed by al sharpton why don't they denounce him and his outbursts that stir racial tension? Uh because deep down they think he is correct, thats why. The same reason the "good" muslims don't denounce the islamist extremists. Because deep down they believe in each other. Rasism will always be because certain people will not let it go. It is to valuable an asset to move past. Hey aceman if it wasn't for the bigots/racists/white supremists you'd be out of a job. enjoy that paycheck you've earned it LOL.

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

You're only partial right, if it wasn't for racists/white supremists and bigots like you and 85gtblahblah, I'd have more time to do my primary job.

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: If the black community is so embarrassed by al sharpton why don't they denounce him and his outbursts that stir racial tension?

They dont need to prove him an idiot or denounce him, he does that well enough on his own and you denounce him already so why join in? The Tawana Brawley case is a perfect example of his embarrassing escapades.

Who does the black community support? Their own. Doesn't mean they don't snitch on each other which causes animosity and killings and to me is stupid but it happens in white communities as well. People hurt or kill people for stupid selfish reasons and that includes racially motivated bullshit.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-10-2008).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Who does the black community support? Their own.

Now that is just about as racist as it gets right there. That is a big problem right there.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Now that is just about as racist as it gets right there. That is a big problem right there.

Really?

Care to explain?

quote Originally posted by aceman: You're only partial right, if it wasn't for racists/white supremists and bigots like you and 85gtblahblah, I'd have more time to do my primary job.

What is your primary job? I find it disturbing that there is a need for an equall oportunity rep in the military. I was in the Marine corp and everyone was equall on the terms of race. You were above others if you outperformed them . There have been many a "dark green" Marines that i looked up to because they kicked a$$ and took names. There are many "light green" Marines that were shitbags. My shop Gunny was Black. He was awsome. He didn't rely on his color to get ahead. He did what needed to be done and thats how he got my respect. He didn't cry or whine about how the white captain was oppressing him and keeping him down. Unfortunantly i have met very few black people with his same belief's and attributes of life. . . . what a shame. The more i watch TV the more i see a race of weak people that don't want to help themself, a race that is looking for a handout. Constant stories of hardship and dispare. Hard work and sacrifice is what makes a great civilization. Pride and dignity lead to hard work and sacrifice. Sorry to sound harsh but that is what i see and that is how i feel. I was always told to hold my head up not my hand out.

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: The more i watch TV the more i see a race of weak people that don't want to help themself, a race that is looking for a handout. Constant stories of hardship and dispare. Hard work and sacrifice is what makes a great civilization. Pride and dignity lead to hard work and sacrifice. Sorry to sound harsh but that is what i see and that is how i feel. I was always told to hold my head up not my hand out.

That would be considered blatantly racist but you didn't name a color.. rather a lifestyle that happens to fit a color class.

If you think that a good majority of these people dont want for a better life then you are grossly mistaken.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: That would be considered blatantly racist but you didn't name a color.. rather a lifestyle that happens to fit a color class. If you think that a good majority of these people dont want for a better life then you are grossly mistaken.

It sounded more like a social or economic description than one of color to me.

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: What is your primary job? I find it disturbing that there is a need for an equall oportunity rep in the military. I was in the Marine corp and everyone was equall on the terms of race. You were above others if you outperformed them . There have been many a "dark green" Marines that i looked up to because they kicked a$$ and took names. There are many "light green" Marines that were shitbags. My shop Gunny was Black. He was awsome. He didn't rely on his color to get ahead. He did what needed to be done and thats how he got my respect. He didn't cry or whine about how the white captain was oppressing him and keeping him down. Unfortunantly i have met very few black people with his same belief's and attributes of life. . . . what a shame. The more i watch TV the more i see a race of weak people that don't want to help themself, a race that is looking for a handout. Constant stories of hardship and dispare. Hard work and sacrifice is what makes a great civilization. Pride and dignity lead to hard work and sacrifice. Sorry to sound harsh but that is what i see and that is how i feel. I was always told to hold my head up not my hand out.

I'm now a First Sergeant with a background in Personnel, Supply, Sapper and Field Artillery.

Much of what you say I can agree with. Unfortunately, I've seen just as many whites act the same way you have complained about a black person.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: It sounded more like a social or economic description than one of color to me.

yup... and it looks like we got ourselves a race. Lazy ass ******* one and all.

Race
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White 38.8%
Black 37.2
Hispanic 17.8
Asian 2.8
Other 3.4

Those numbers have increased since that report was filed

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-10-2008).]

quote Originally posted by aceman: I'm now a First Sergeant with a background in Personnel, Supply, Sapper and Field Artillery.

Theres your answer Devil Dog.

Did I call it, or did I call it?

LOL.

quote Originally posted by 88GT5.0KILLER: Theres your answer Devil Dog. Did I call it, or did I call it? LOL.

And you're issue with my background Racist?

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: That would be considered blatantly racist but you didn't name a color.. rather a lifestyle that happens to fit a color class. If you think that a good majority of these people dont want for a better life then you are grossly mistaken.

Of course these people want to have a better life but do they want to make the necessary sacrifices to have that life? Holding your hand out isn't going to get it done.

quote Originally posted by aceman:Unfortunately, I've seen just as many whites act the same way you have complained about a black person.

Aceman, So you see the bad in whites and i see the bad in blacks. That makes you a racist and a bigot just like me right? Thank you thats what i've been waiting to hear .

No, I see that there is bad across the board...... Black, White, Yellow, Green, Man, Woman, Gay, Straight, Jew, Muslim, and Christian. What you posted that you disliked was not indicative of a black person. It's indicative of the human race.

The "Unfortunately" is there because unfortunately for you, you cannot present your case as the truth. Any human can act like what you posted.

[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 01-10-2008).]

Many years ago while traveling thru Maryland I came across a genuine road sign that read "Lynch" 2 miles. Dont remember seeing any detour signs either which probably raised a few eyebrows......

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: Of course these people want to have a better life but do they want to make the necessary sacrifices to have that life? Holding your hand out isn't going to get it done.

How do you mean "do they want to xxx"?
You make it sound as if they like living in the slums on welfare and as a matter of fact it is an impossibility to do so. No one can live exclusively on welfare and as I've shown above the majority of welfare recipients are white.

While many have "pride" I don't make the mistake of believing that to be they like it or don't want to change it.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-10-2008).]

[This message has been edited by slinger (edited 01-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Who does the black community support? Their own.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Really? Care to explain?

Sure, if it needs to be clarified, and or you thought I was calling you a racist, which I certainly was not.
I think it is pretty clear that you said "they" support their own, which makes "them" a bunch of racists.

[This message has been edited by Red88FF (edited 01-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: I think it is pretty clear that you said "they" support their own, which makes "them" a bunch of racists.

In what context did you believe I was stating that?
I never said it was racial in any way, you construed that on your own.
It's no different than an army unit on a battle field fighting and struggling to survive. You look out for your own.

Thats not to say that you or I as white men couldn't be a part of that struggle, more like you and I just aren't involved until we get involved and you aren't involved.

However, I am involved so I understand. I know for a fact that I am not a racist by any stretch of the imagination and if I was I would have been ostracized by the black community but I'm not. I can walk around the place like I own it because I know people and those people know my people and that means they know me. Some call it "street cred" but I call it respect and I give a whole hell of a lot of it so I dont end up dead... or worse.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-11-2008).]

The original lynching was not just a hanging it included caning ,whipping,lashings and other punishments..but later on in states like Mississippi Alabama, Georgia,Louisiana,north florida the term became more related to blacks because 10 white men may have been lynched,in the same period that 450 black men were lynched,Some of them were guilty of crimes but often there was a lynching because of some small offence,So the term became associated with punishment of blacks.. I lived in the county where "Cool hand luke" took place ..the guard in the movie with the sunglasses became sherriff of lake county ,He was a cruel man when needed and he kept the blacks "down" by harsh enforcement of the law against white and black.his form of law enforcement was called" lynch law".Thier are many stories about this man and his "Law" the whites and many blacks wanted this man in office to keep the riff raff down black and white .. The majority of blacks hated this man and feared him..he was the last of his kind in florida .. the governor removed him from office in 1972,after a black man died in jail probably from a beating..he had been arrested for not having an inspection sticker on his car..Lynch law lasted untill 1972 in lake county florida,because it was condoned by the people, who knew sherriff Mc Call was a hard man and extra hard on law breakers,,He was codoned,his tactics were ignored because people were safe in thier homes and did not want the crime that was spreading into the other counties,he won the sherriffs office with big majorities in some years.. Cool hand luke was in a jail farm in lake county florida , he destroyed the meters in Tavares Florida.. Lake county florida was the sort of place where a prisoner might have a rutabaga or turnip sandwich for lunch,don t ask how I know this part!!

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: Aceman, So you see the bad in whites and i see the bad in blacks. That makes you a racist and a bigot just like me right? Thank you thats what i've been waiting to hear .

Aceman hates whites.

I didnt see him posting in this thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/052312.html

Racist, you didn't answer my original question?

What's your issue with my background in the military?

I guess 85GTRacist isn't going to answer my question. Guess he's got more important things on his mind like that bar about to blink and then "User Banned"

[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 01-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: How do you mean "do they want to xxx"? You make it sound as if they like living in the slums on welfare and as a matter of fact it is an impossibility to do so. No one can live exclusively on welfare and as I've shown above the majority of welfare recipients are white. While many have "pride" I don't make the mistake of believing that to be they like it or don't want to change it.

I get stuck on this part too. everyone "wants" to have a better lifestyle.
everything you know was in one way or another tought to you. someone else fed you the info. and, many of the things you need to know to lead a decent "civilized" life come from your parents & immediate family & friends. and, has for many many many generations. we are still basicly living the "roman" lifestyle. all our basic "civil" systems still have deep roots in rome. guess who wasn't there?

now, here we have uneducated people - who have NEVER had ANY clue of civilization. suddenly thrown into civilization. of course they are not gonna do very well. and, thats only 1-4 generations ago. we have thousands of years of parent to child honing of civil & social skills. just little things like "easops fables". you'll see the "less tought" natives even stumbling on these basic things. the selffishness. the extreme importance of their custumes. the inability to clearly communicate. these are all symtoms of not being raised right. and, without intervention - when they reproduce - the same thing will happen again.

and this goes for ANY human who does not come from a civilized family. while it may sound racist - it is not. there are plenty folk of ALL types who comes from civilized families. and, the other way around. we in the US were just VERY silly in thinking just opening the gates, and letting uneducated, abused & broke folk loose on society. the being broke part certainly didnt help either. most people are where they are because their parents were able to give them a head start. first car, clothes, education, etc. none of that here. and unlikely the next gen either. its like trying to achieve "escape velocity".

and, lastly - throw on a a completely un-missable physical attribute, which basicly guarantees all who see you know where you came from, and you are not gonna have a good time at life in civilization.

this is not excuses. just like gravity is not the excuse for things falling. just how it is. you can list all your exceptions. matters not. people are who they are because of their parents/family. if you were never taught "life lessons" from your parents/family, you will learn them the hard way - or not at all. only 2 ways to "stop the cycle": get in there and *REALLY* teach - real people with real 1 on 1 reletionships, or, dont let the ignorant reproduce.

you'll note that properly raised humans of any type is completely fine. which proves that it is NOT the race - its the parents. this applies to spics, chinks, negros, hillbillies, left handed albino eskimo's, skinheads, muslims, jews, christians, democrats, republicans, etc.

what it boils down to: dont make stupid, selfish, lazy kids.
and - lynching - its just hangin' - usually by a mob........

quote Originally posted by aceman: No, I see that there is bad across the board...... Black, White, Yellow, Green, Man, Woman, Gay, Straight, Jew, Muslim, and Christian. What you posted that you disliked was not indicative of a black person. It's indicative of the human race. The "Unfortunately" is there because unfortunately for you, you cannot present your case as the truth. Any human can act like what you posted.

If someone is green they are probably choking, not being racist.

Mr Pbody you are a funny dude!

Some amount of racism exists, as it always will, but there is a cost to seeing racism when it isn't there. It actually interferes with relations between people that aren't racist.

I was on a mission trip in New York City this summer. About 23 of us doing different things to help this guy out across from Tompkin's Square Park. We stayed on site in a dorm room type situation. 9 guys in the room. Different ages scattered from 20 up to me at 51.

One of my jobs was to sing as the only tenor. The 20 year old guy is a music major and he was singing bass. So we had a lot to do together. Name is Tim. I knew him pretty well in spite of the age difference because of being in choir together. He was home for the summer and doing a pastoral internship.

One of the songs we had worked on that summer had a prominent line about "...not even dark is dark to you..." referring to dark life circumstances in the context of the song.

We were all together in the dorm room late in the evening and something came up about it being dark in the room and we were goofing around and I said "Not even dark is dark to you, right Tim." And there was suddenly dead silence.

Well, the other 7 guys weren't in choir and so would have no idea what in the world that was supposed to mean, and I hadn't said it to the group in general, but Tim's bunk was right next to mine and I was directing it at him. But obviously the other guys heard it, and suddenly there was total silence.

As it happens, Tim is a black guy. He's not african-american, because that is just a stupid, inaccurate term, and his dad and mom are from Jamaica. But because he is a black guy, now all of a sudden "...not even dark is dark to you..." is a total conversation stopper. All the other guys are white. Maybe because we are all from the same church, no one said anything to me, but on the other hand, all conversation that had been going on completely stopped.

How could I be so insensitive that in spite of being innocent in motive, I would say something like that to a black guy? That was their question. My answer would be, "Oh, is he a black guy. Oh, yeah, I guess he is. I hadn't really noticed."

I see Tim, my 20 year old bass singing choir partner. Oh yeah, I guess he is black, too. I don't really notice. But then, I don't check out guys very closely. There are a bunch of other physical characteristics about him, too, I suppose, but I'm not really looking that close. He is my friend. Race isn't even on the radar.

Oh, wait. Except because of pigs like Al Sharpton and others who keep throwing up racism where it isn't, now everyone has to be hypersensitive. So now I am FORCED to think about race because if I am not hypersensitive about race, I might say something totally innocent like I did, but now I have to DEFEND myself as not racist. Which you know how that often comes across. I can defend myself as a non-child molester and a non-wife beater, too. You know how that comes across, too.

So through the painful silence, I was sitting there trying to think, "Hey, why did everyone quit talking all of a sudden?" And it really took me about 15-20 seconds to figure it out. Then I took another 30 seconds to figure out how to approach it. And finally, I just came out and said, "Uh, Tim, you DO know I was talking about the choir song and that is all, right?"

And he said, "Oh, yeah, dude (he is 20), I totally (he is 20) know what you meant." And I knew he did. But the other guys in the room needed to know.

So even where everyone in the room is from the same church and are all friends, and have zero racism nor tolerance for it, it STILL has been forced on us as an issue by people like Sharpton who keep throwing it up in everyone's faces and TRYING to find racism when it isn't there.

As a P.S., we have 2 pastoral interns every summer in my church in the rich, white suburbs of Milwaukee. About August it struck me. "Oh, yeah, both the interns this summer are black. Huh. That's interesting." Irrelevant, just kind of interesting.


When you are friends with someone, you don't even think about race. That newscaster was foolish to use lynch. But it wasn't racist. She wasn't seeing race because Tiger Woods is her friend. I'm sure it wasn't even on her radar screen. She knows Tiger Woods is black now (even though he is just as much filipino. But don't let that slow the race baiting talk, Sharpton).

My question is this.......
If a white golfer. Jack Nicholas, Arnold Palmer......twenty years ago, if that is when they were playing, and the same female commentator were doing the " color" ( Oh God do I dare use that word?}
And she said the same thing using the word "lynch" would there have even been a second thought about what she had said?

quote Originally posted by aceman: Racist, you didn't answer my original question? What's your issue with my background in the military? I guess 85GTRacist isn't going to answer my question. Guess he's got more important things on his mind like that bar about to blink and then "User Banned"

No...go army!!!
No response to my last post?
You call me racist like its an insult.
Banned? Yeah, looks that way.

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The minority commits the majority of violent crime. Yet Im the bad guy for pointing that out. Truth is a B**** isnt it?

quote Originally posted by never2old: My question is this....... If a white golfer. Jack Nicholas, Arnold Palmer......twenty years ago, if that is when they were playing, and the same female commentator were doing the " color" ( Oh God do I dare use that word?} And she said the same thing using the word "lynch" would there have even been a second thought about what she had said?

Nothing. The "main ingredient" isn't there. Most would have thought she used a poor choice of words, clueless, and/or fired on the spot. Jack Nicholas or Arnold Palmer are icons (cash cow) among the golf touraments, especially 20 yrs ago or even now. A comedian/actor/golfer could have pulled it off like Bob Hope, but Tilghman on the other hand...I don't think so.

Co-host learns hard history lesson

“Kelly Tilghman should have used a different choice of words or, better yet, an entirely different analogy. Had she said “mug him in a back alley” – and I’d bet that’s what she meant to say – nobody would have said a word. As it was, it took five days for Sharpton to get himself on CNN to demand that Tilghman be fired for saying a word that can be racially charged.”

“Tilghman, 38, at first seemed unaware of the historical ghosts raised by her use of the word "lynch" in reference to an African-American, and did not apologize on-air until last Sunday. She'd apologized to Woods last Saturday. Tilghman was trying to make a point with a joke, but the word that popped out of her mouth is about as offensive as one can find. That's true anywhere, but nowhere as much as in the United States, which remains a racially charged landscape. Even if Tilghman were absent on the days when the tragic legacy of lynching was discussed in her high-school history class, she seems equally out of touch with current affairs. As recently as last fall, the racist symbol of the noose resurfaced in places as disparate as Jena, La., suburban Chicago, and Columbia University in New York City. CNN aired a special investigation entitled The Noose: An American Nightmare in response to these sorry episodes.
Set against this background and the history of lynching in America, it's easy to understand why Tilghman's comment has generated a firestorm in newspapers."
http://www.theglobeandmail....UBE12/TPStory/Sports

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 01-12-2008).]