OMG! I just realized another, probably very real, reason why more white men don't date black women.
It's not worth dealing with the possibility of receiving all the sh!t from guys like GDS-1 who might take offense at such an occurance, not to mention all the redneck counterparts. Sad.
Goes to show what you know: I support interracial relationships. Hell I MARRIED interracially. Nice try though. You call me out but not your fellow posters?
Yeah.
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01:58 PM
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by GDS-1: quote originally posted by tinton "It helps that I like big butts and I cannot lie . " Oh yeah end an ignorant racist post with a stereotypical one. And if anybody defends this piece of crap they're just as bad as this idiot.
it's been a long time since ive seen a spike lee joint, but i strongly suggest you not watch "SkoolDaze", lest you be offended by the blatant racism perpetrated by that uncle-tom lackey. you, GDS-1, are the racist here. you may not be the only one, but you are certainly high on the list.
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02:22 PM
GDS-1 Member
Posts: 157 From: Tacoma,WA,USA Registered: Feb 2006
Originally posted by GDS-1: Goes to show what you know: I support interracial relationships. Hell I MARRIED interracially. Nice try though. You call me out but not your fellow posters? Yeah.
Congratulations. It doesn't mean the perception isn't there. (Funny how that works, eh?) Whether you feel that way or not, I'm sure there are some people who do. PLEASE correct me if Im wrong.
As for the debate at hand... Your main issue seemed to be with Tinton. I've known him for a while and think I know where he's coming from. Tinton pisses everybody off at one time or another. He doesn't sugarcoat stuff, but he speaks his mind. He might be outspoken and in poor taste sometimes, but I certainly don't think he's a bigot (which is what most people mean when they say "racist", anyway.)
Not that Tinton needs me to step in and defend him (is snow flying in hell, yet?) but I sincerely believe that you are over-reacting to his comments. You are coming off as someone who is looking for something to get heartburn about. I have found that, from day to day, if I look for stuff to be chapped about, I usually will find it.
Lighten up. The white guys aren't out to hold you down. At least not me.
To put this in perspective, I should tell you that I'm 49. My parents moved from Philly to Atlanta (actually Decatur) two years before I was born. I am not the "stereotypical southerner" (god I hate that stereotype) and I don't have much patience with rednecks, or bigots in general. I certainly wouldn't step up to defend one.
Peace. Seriously.
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02:31 PM
lurker Member
Posts: 12355 From: salisbury nc usa Registered: Feb 2002
Originally posted by GDS-1: WRITTEN PROMISE of 40 acres and a mule.
source? or are you referring to sherman's special field order 15? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reconstruction/40acres/ps_so15.html sherman did a lot of things which were never approved by the government, including trying to negotiate a general peace with joe johnston.
next.
color is irrelevant. a troll is a troll.
[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 07-03-2006).]
Prove wrong? How? Just because you yell louder doesn't make you right. You haven't given a single f-ucking shred of evidence to back up your points of view, all you've spouted are your erroneous points of view. Yet you ask others to back their points up. You can yell and ****ing SCREAM til your throat bleeds that the earth is flat but that doesn't make it true.
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02:34 PM
GDS-1 Member
Posts: 157 From: Tacoma,WA,USA Registered: Feb 2006
source? or are you referring to sherman's special field order 15? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reconstruction/40acres/ps_so15.html sherman did a lot of things which were never approved by the government, including trying to negotiate a general peace with joe johnston.
Congratulations. It doesn't mean the perception isn't there. (Funny how that works, eh?) Whether you feel that way or not, I'm sure there are some people who do. PLEASE correct me if Im wrong.
As for the debate at hand... Your main issue seemed to be with Tinton. I've known him for a while and think I know where he's coming from. Tinton pisses everybody off at one time or another. He doesn't sugarcoat stuff, but he speaks his mind. He might be outspoken and in poor taste sometimes, but I certainly don't think he's a bigot (which is what most people mean when they say "racist", anyway.)
Not that Tinton needs me to step in and defend him (is snow flying in hell, yet?) but I sincerely believe that you are over-reacting to his comments. You are coming off as someone who is looking for something to get heartburn about. I have found that, from day to day, if I look for stuff to be chapped about, I usually will find it.
Lighten up. The white guys aren't out to hold you down. At least not me.
To put this in perspective, I should tell you that I'm 49. My parents moved from Philly to Atlanta (actually Decatur) two years before I was born. I am not the "stereotypical southerner" (god I hate that stereotype) and I don't have much patience with rednecks, or bigots in general. I certainly wouldn't step up to defend one.
Peace. Seriously.
True that. I wouldn't say that GDS-1 was actively trying to create a situation where he could argue and raise his blood pressure, but he surely hasn't helped the situation in this thread. He has taken just about EVERYTHING said the wrong way. Its almost humorous how he spins every single little thing just to get him more pissed off. I swear that a black man could come in here and argue the same points as me, and GDS would call him a traitor or something like that.
To those who say I'm a racist, my original post was meant in no way to be racist. About the only thing is the big butts comment, and that's just as bad as a black man saying I can't dance or I can't jump because I'm white. I'm by no means a stereotypical southerner, my entire family is from up north. My father's side is from Minnesota and New York, my mother's from Massachusetts and Nova Scotia. I dislike rednecks and I absolutely hate racists in any form. GDS-1, you can keep telling yourself otherwise, but you are a racist. Much more so than anyone else in this thread.
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02:47 PM
PFF
System Bot
GDS-1 Member
Posts: 157 From: Tacoma,WA,USA Registered: Feb 2006
Prove wrong? How? Just because you yell louder doesn't make you right. You haven't given a single f-ucking shred of evidence to back up your points of view, all you've spouted are your erroneous points of view. Yet you ask others to back their points up. You can yell and ****ing SCREAM til your throat bleeds that the earth is flat but that doesn't make it true.
And you cursing makes your view legit?
Move along youngin'
And how can you judge one experiences as erroneous? I'd like to hear that one.
And Lurker, like you're important or anything...if I was a troll than I would've been trolling long ago.
But please, let the doublestandard continue.
And TINTON: I had more of an issue of how you came down than your meaning. 'cause if you reposted that in a different manner than we wouldn't be having this.
Before this turns into more of a shouting match than it already is, I think we need to address the main point of this thread. Uaana is trying to figure out women. Silly, we all know that's impossible.
------------------ Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck '87 GT Auto '88 Ferrario
Oh yeah, you're the only black person in this thread? IIRC madcurl is black. And he's made several posts in here.
Really, how do you know what people's races are here? That is one of the GOOD things about the internet, you can't tell what everyone's skin color is, unless they tell you. Everyone is on equal footing. Hell, you don't even know me at all, if it weren't for other members like Raydar, I could tell you I was black.
Not say what I've said in a group of black people IRL? I'll do that when you show up at a KKK meeting and start crying about slavery. Many of my friends are black, I can guarantee you that if I said what I said in front of them they wouldn't go insane like you. But if I said it in the prescence of a radical bunch, yes I'd get my ass kicked. Hell there are places around here where I'd get stabbed/shot/beat for just walking down the street, because of my race. Show me an area today where that can happen to you.
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02:55 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41355 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
True that. I wouldn't say that GDS-1 was actively trying to create a situation where he could argue and raise his blood pressure, but he surely hasn't helped the situation in this thread. He has taken just about EVERYTHING said the wrong way. Its almost humorous how he spins every single little thing just to get him more pissed off. I swear that a black man could come in here and argue the same points as me, and GDS would call him a traitor or something like that.
Then you're swearing to hell; I wouldn't call him a traitor. Unlike you, he'd be a little more articulate. Maybe. And the situation was created by some ignorant posts. But let's not get into that.
quote
To those who say I'm a racist, my original post was meant in no way to be racist.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Man, this is the second time I had to say that.
quote
About the only thing is the big butts comment, and that's just as bad as a black man saying I can't dance or I can't jump because I'm white.
So two wrongs make it right? So that means it's cool to justify your initial post, eh?
quote
I'm by no means a stereotypical southerner, my entire family is from up north. My father's side is from Minnesota and New York, my mother's from Massachusetts and Nova Scotia. I dislike rednecks and I absolutely hate racists in any form. GDS-1, you can keep telling yourself otherwise, but you are a racist. Much more so than anyone else in this thread.
You don't even know me to even make that statement. Because I took offense to what you and another poster said? And called on it? Oh yeah...
I've known Black,Asian,Latino bigots...but none had the power to be racists.
Originally posted by GDS-1: And you cursing makes your view legit?
Move along youngin'
And how can you judge one experiences as erroneous? I'd like to hear that one.
And Lurker, like you're important or anything...if I was a troll than I would've been trolling long ago.
But please, let the doublestandard continue.
And TINTON: I had more of an issue of how you came down than your meaning. 'cause if you reposted that in a different manner than we wouldn't be having this.
Judge one's experiences as erroneous? YOU'VE ALREADY DONE THAT TO ME! My first ****ing post was experiences and you basically told me I'm wrong an and idiot. Your experiences are worth more? Why is that? Because of your skin color? That's just as good as coming from your mouth! You racist a****** . The doublestandard is continueing, a black guy calls me cracker in a group of white people and nothing happens, I call a black man the equivalent in a group of black people and I get killed. How is that for your doublestandard? Not that I would ever do that, but it proves my point. Or, where's the NAAWP? Or white colleges? I'm not advocating having those things created, but I think the black equivalents should be destroyed to ensure true equality.
Again, if you had disputed my initial post differently we wouldn't be here right now. Either of us can easily back away from the keyboard right now and call this flamewar quits. You're the one who started it, you want to be the one who finishes it?
Wasn't this country founded on a principal of man not having to live with what his father brought upon him? To get rid of the aristocracy, which decided a man's place in life based on what his father and his father's father did? Apparently I was born a slave-owner, because people of my race, NOT EVEN IN MY BLOODLINE, owned slaves sometime in history. And I have to answer for that. WTF am I supposed to do? Lay down and let you trample right over me? Hell, where's the reparations for what my Irish ancestors had to endure, from the British government? Screw 400 years, the Irish have been oppressed by the British for about 1,000. Or, where's the land Canada owes me because I have Native American ancestors? If you want special treatment for what happened to your ancestors, then I should get it too, fair is fair.
[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 07-03-2006).]
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03:08 PM
GDS-1 Member
Posts: 157 From: Tacoma,WA,USA Registered: Feb 2006
Oh yeah, you're the only black person in this thread? IIRC madcurl is black. And he's made several posts in here.
Really, how do you know what people's races are here? That is one of the GOOD things about the internet, you can't tell what everyone's skin color is, unless they tell you. Everyone is on equal footing. Hell, you don't even know me at all, if it weren't for other members like Raydar, I could tell you I was black.
Not say what I've said in a group of black people IRL? I'll do that when you show up at a KKK meeting and start crying about slavery. Many of my friends are black, I can guarantee you that if I said what I said in front of them they wouldn't go insane like you. But if I said it in the prescence of a radical bunch, yes I'd get my ass kicked. Hell there are places around here where I'd get stabbed/shot/beat for just walking down the street, because of my race. Show me an area today where that can happen to you.
Bensonhurst, New York. Los Angeles suburbs. Boston. Seattle--just had a case of a 14 year old Black teen get beat down by 3 White guys last month. New York City Do you want more?
Bensonhurst, New York. Los Angeles suburbs. Boston. Seattle--just had a case of a 14 year old Black teen get beat down by 3 White guys last month. New York City Do you want more?
Excellent. You're providing facts now and proving we're equal in todays times. I can walk in the wrong neighborhood and get killed, and you can walk in the wrong neighborhood and get killed. How can we fix that for everyone? No double standards.
Oh, BTW, from the beginning I saw this was a very controversial thread. The usual flamewars here are on topics that wouldn't get people too upset in real life. This is something completely different. It was a mistake to post here, sometimes you just have to keep quiet, freedom of speech or not.
Edit: I'm out, because arguing here is meaningless. No matter what I say it won't mean anything or have any value to you, GDS. I stand by my first post and I would say it was my best attempt at being civil in this thread, and you took it completely the wrong way. Good luck in changing the minds of the others here, though I'm pretty sure your ratings bar will show up red and this thread will end up in the trash.
[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 07-03-2006).]
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03:22 PM
GDS-1 Member
Posts: 157 From: Tacoma,WA,USA Registered: Feb 2006
Judge one's experiences as erroneous? YOU'VE ALREADY DONE THAT TO ME! My first ****ing post was experiences and you basically told me I'm wrong an and idiot. Your experiences are worth more? Why is that? Because of your skin color? That's just as good as coming from your mouth! You racist a****** . The doublestandard is continueing, a black guy calls me cracker in a group of white people and nothing happens, I call a black man the equivalent in a group of black people and I get killed. How is that for your doublestandard? Not that I would ever do that, but it proves my point. Or, where's the NAAWP? Or white colleges? I'm not advocating having those things created, but I think the black equivalents should be destroyed to ensure true equality.
That wouldn't ensure true equality one bit.
quote
Again, if you had disputed my initial post differently we wouldn't be here right now. Either of us can easily back away from the keyboard right now and call this flamewar quits. You're the one who started it, you want to be the one who finishes it?
MA, HE STARTED IT :lol:
heh. Cursing really makes it quite the civil discussion, right?
quote
Wasn't this country founded on a principal of man not having to live with what his father brought upon him?
For Europeans? maybe. For the Native People that have been here thousands of years before? Doubt it. And why did the Declaration of Independance initally said "For truth, justice, and pursuit of property"? But they changed it. Why? Oh I don't know...slavery? What makes this more tragic is that before the first slave ships came, the Blacks that were there had businesses, property, and were able to marry interracially. Hell, go to the Jamestown, Virginia Hall of Records and it will show you that a good percentage of people on the Mayflower were actually Black--and one third of all decendants of the Mayflower have African blood in them.
When the settlers weren't able to use the Native People as slaves, guess what they did: Took the Blacks that they had and used them as slaves...THIS was before the first slave ships. (another Note: Out of all the slave ships that came, only half of them survived the cruel compact travels. Now to debunk another poster's claim: There were arab slave traders, but the Black traders didn't know what the Europeans were actually doing; the European slavers also KIDNAPPED people to BE slaves. The other slaves were only slaves from tribal warfare. This is common knowledge among African Americans, but whatever.)
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03:29 PM
PFF
System Bot
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
GDS-1 said: I've known Black,Asian,Latino bigots...but none had the power to be racists.
If you're going to talk, then you should at least know what you're talking about. Racism = bigotry. Look in a thesaurus and you'll see that they're synonymous. Saying that non-whites can't be racist is a cop-out.
rac·ism n. 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Wow.. didn't mean for this to blow up into a full flame war.
Just like a girl and was wondering if there were any outstanding issues I should address/be aware of.
Far as lineage, I'm Native/Mexican/German/Polish, spent 6 yrs in the corps.. mostly color blind when it comes to women, have dated latina/asian/white.. but black being what it is in this country.. thought i'd get a lil feed back.
I see that both sides have hard opinions.. but i'll work it out on my own.. obviously some of you haven't advanced past the civil war.
Nevermind guys.. I'll work s**t out on my own.. you can go back to your race wars somewhere else.
For the record.. she's got a great butt, slim waist, large breasts, killer personality.. loves to laugh and be teased.. you want to hang your issues on this.. get over it. This has done nothing but make me more interested in being with her in a hope to overcome stupid **** .. She's hot, and cool.
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03:43 PM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20708 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
Wow.. didn't mean for this to blow up into a full flame war.
Just like a girl and was wondering if there were any outstanding issues I should address/be aware of.
Far as lineage, I'm Native/Mexican/German/Polish, spent 6 yrs in the corps.. mostly color blind when it comes to women, have dated latina/asian/white.. but black being what it is in this country.. thought i'd get a lil feed back.
I see that both sides have hard opinions.. but i'll work it out on my own.. obviously some of you haven't advanced past the civil war.
Nevermind guys.. I'll work s**t out on my own.. you can go back to your race wars somewhere else.
For the record.. she's got a great butt, slim waist, large breasts, killer personality.. loves to laugh and be teased.. you want to hang your issues on this.. get over it. This has done nothing but make me more interested in being with her in a hope to overcome stupid **** .. She's hot, and cool.
Just keep hanging out with her and soon you two will be comfortable with each other. It will lead to dates, kissing, then booty calls.
You'll be a'ight!
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03:48 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41355 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Pretty simple actually..........Once you go black, you never go back. Once around of black womens attitudes is enough to last a lifetime. The REASON black girls dont date white men, is because white men (most of us anywway) have been on that treadmill once and dont feel like going back to it again.
I have had no shortage of offers from black ladies, but thanks but no thanks. There is a cultural gap there that just cant be overcome.
They figgure they are in charge and when they say jump you best say "how high"---I figgure last time I said how high to anybody he was a regimental sergent major and had earned his respect by a little beter means than a bad attitude and accident of birth.
Originally posted by GDS-1: For Europeans? maybe. For the Native People that have been here thousands of years before? Doubt it. And why did the Declaration of Independance initally said "For truth, justice, and pursuit of property"? But they changed it. Why? Oh I don't know...slavery? What makes this more tragic is that before the first slave ships came, the Blacks that were there had businesses, property, and were able to marry interracially. Hell, go to the Jamestown, Virginia Hall of Records and it will show you that a good percentage of people on the Mayflower were actually Black--and one third of all decendants of the Mayflower have African blood in them.
When the settlers weren't able to use the Native People as slaves, guess what they did: Took the Blacks that they had and used them as slaves...THIS was before the first slave ships. (another Note: Out of all the slave ships that came, only half of them survived the cruel compact travels. Now to debunk another poster's claim: There were arab slave traders, but the Black traders didn't know what the Europeans were actually doing; the European slavers also KIDNAPPED people to BE slaves. The other slaves were only slaves from tribal warfare. This is common knowledge among African Americans, but whatever.)
Ahh.. Someone who knows alittle something about slavery. Outstanding!
It would be nice to think that the main goal of the Civil War was to abolish slavery of all forms but saddly that was not the case. The Civil War was about an Amendment to the Constitution that in effect says you can effectively "own" a person thru owning his property but you can not own the person. He can still be denied the liberty to earn a decent wage, replace certin freedoms for privilages like driving, voting, owning a gun, smoking weed, he can be prevented from owning a house and be in debt to a "master" IE another "person" until his debt has been satified and even charge his heirs with repaying his debt after he is dead. In addition the amendment says congress has th power to enforce what the definition of slavery / "indentured servatude" is by "appropriate" legislation regardless of what "appropriate" means to you or me. Or for that matter, selectively ignore it as it wishes. It was the birth of democracy. Many didn't want it. They knew that the government was giving itself the power to enslave everyone equally and to have the power enforce contracts. Contracts of willingness to enslave onself by ones own desire. I.E. "Is that your signature? You signed it therefore you must play by "these rules" which we will legislate, dictate to you." We are all slaves, lock stock and barrel.
It was not a war of the north vs the south or even about the abolition of slavery as many believe it to be. It was merely a change in the definition that the "federalists" (fedral government) made up and certin "states" disagreed and would not ratify it. It was about the definition of what slavery is and how to go about owning people without actually physically owning them. I can draw up a contract and have you sign it and effectivly OWN you and in some cases the mere fact that you are a citizen of the united states means congress can at any time charge you with a "duty" to defend this country and you will have no choice in the matter. The south had a vested interest in this because they spent alot of money to own "people" to work their farms. Those people would immidiately go free unless they signed a contract saying they wanted to be "effectively owned" even though master Moore spent a hefty sum of money to obtain them. The prospect of slave wanting to remain slaves was kind of slim.
And yes, many slaves earned their freedom form their masters and owners. They worked hard and repaid their debt and were granted their freedom and eventually owned property of their own. Some did, some didn't.
Interesting to see how this thread has turned. I have a few stories to tell but if I did I'd probably be labled a racist even though I am the furthest thing from it.
I enjoy the diversity this country has to offer and I want nothing more than to immerse myself in it. Saddly I can not. I cant because I'm just "American" and that's more than enough reason for some people to hate me.
Edit:
There were Black Confederate soldiers. Conservative estimates state that over 50,000 African Black American Confederates that served in the Confederate Army. Many of these men saw combat and participated in the Civil war. They were not "African", they were 100% pure down home FREE American Citizens.
James Russell
Free man of color, Cook for Company C, 24th South Carolina Volunteer Infantry
Killed in action at Missionary Ridge on November 25, 1863
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-03-2006).]
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06:31 PM
GDS-1 Member
Posts: 157 From: Tacoma,WA,USA Registered: Feb 2006
Pretty simple actually..........Once you go black, you never go back. Once around of black womens attitudes is enough to last a lifetime. The REASON black girls dont date white men, is because white men (most of us anywway) have been on that treadmill once and dont feel like going back to it again.
I have had no shortage of offers from black ladies, but thanks but no thanks. There is a cultural gap there that just cant be overcome.
They figgure they are in charge and when they say jump you best say "how high"---I figgure last time I said how high to anybody he was a regimental sergent major and had earned his respect by a little beter means than a bad attitude and accident of birth.
oil and water.
Hold on 84, you made some valid points but I gotta address the post before you.
The reason Black women tests men--they do that to Black men too, my grandmother told me this not too long ago-- is to see if they're wimps or not. Don't have to be overbearing, but strong enough to not back down. Some Black women take it too far, but most don't. Some men can handle it, some don't. I've talked to some Asian guys and a few of them complain about White guys going out with Asian women because of the submissive aspect.
Now take that into account. We have generalizations about Black women being too strong, and Asian women being too submissive. As an individual myself, I love all women, and almost all sizes. I've dated all except asians, but not because I chose not to.
Now under8ted, I ask you a legitimate question: So you won't go out with Black women; would you rather go out with Asian women? I mean, in all due honesty, you think you would rather go out with someone who could take more crap from you? Because a GOOD Black woman takes no crap from ANYone...man nor woman. That could be a reason why alot of White guys have...issues...
To be fair--and truthful--I'll even answer that question AFTER you.
Ok 84...my only issue with that post is that I don't understand why they had Black confederates...Especially what happened during the Revolutionary War. If you already know...that's cool but to others who don't:
During the RW, there was the issue of having slaves fight for the Union. The whole issue of slavery was a source of major conscern since they rewrote and approved the Declaration. The British, deciding to use that to their advantage solicited to slaves to fight for them and get their freedom, and 25,000 slaves volunteered.
NOTE AND DISCLAIMER:The British offered this not because they're the good guys...;their imperialism was getting into full swing, and themselves had slaves in the Carribean.
These 25,000 slaves did get their freedom...and was sent to Newfoundland. (note I found out what happened to them through a Canadian television special. There is also a book about the British tactics just out, I forgot the name but I read about it in a Time magazine a few weeks back.)
I guess we must have been eternally hopeful.
But I guess the worst thing to do to a man--and a race--is to systematicly keep him from learning to read, write, and to eliminate one's past. THAT is the true tragedy of slavery.
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12:23 AM
PFF
System Bot
sostock Member
Posts: 5907 From: Grain Valley, MO Registered: May 2005
sorry i haven't read through this entire, uuummm thread. but from my experince yes more black men date white women. can't put a ratio too it, just what i've seen.
i used to think i was a little raciest until i really got to know some blacks. if its just you and your friend you're ok, but as soon as they get around their friends they act different. not saying this is true of all people, just from my experince.
had a black friend in high school. didn't care who you were. spoke his mind and never looked at color. had a friend a few years later who would be your best buddy when he was around whites but started talking "jive" and ignoring me when he got around other blacks. it kinda pissed me off but he was a lot of fun to hang out with so i delt with it.
everybody's different. ya take the good with the bad.
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01:05 AM
GDS-1 Member
Posts: 157 From: Tacoma,WA,USA Registered: Feb 2006
yeah probably not. Damon my friend in HS was murdered in college.
James the guy i worked with while i was in college, well we just lost touch when i got another job. he was a blast to hang out with. he was literally the biggest guy i'd ever seen in person. never touched a weight, he was just huge. he played some nfl and Canadian football. we'd walk into a bar and there would be 10 gilrs looking at us (well him) and a couple of guys asking if he was playing for the Chiefs! haven't spoke to him for a few years now, hope he's doing well.
Ok 84...my only issue with that post is that I don't understand why they had Black confederates...Especially what happened during the Revolutionary War. If you already know...that's cool but to others who don't:
During the RW, there was the issue of having slaves fight for the Union. The whole issue of slavery was a source of major conscern since they rewrote and approved the Declaration. The British, deciding to use that to their advantage solicited to slaves to fight for them and get their freedom, and 25,000 slaves volunteered.
NOTE AND DISCLAIMER:The British offered this not because they're the good guys...;their imperialism was getting into full swing, and themselves had slaves in the Carribean.
These 25,000 slaves did get their freedom...and was sent to Newfoundland. (note I found out what happened to them through a Canadian television special. There is also a book about the British tactics just out, I forgot the name but I read about it in a Time magazine a few weeks back.)
I guess we must have been eternally hopeful.
But I guess the worst thing to do to a man--and a race--is to systematicly keep him from learning to read, write, and to eliminate one's past. THAT is the true tragedy of slavery.
I'm addressing the 13th amendment and the Civil war dirtectly. Those are what have defined us a "free" people today.
I know what you mean because when I first heard that there were black confererates (not in school) I too began to question WHY.
You have to understand that to "question" is an act of rebellion in itself. When you question those who are the dictators they will often say "because thats the way it is" or "you shouldn't ask such questions."
Anyway, when I hear a reply such as that I can't help but to wonder to myself even more.... WHY? and even more, WHY didn't I get an answer? It then becomes my responsibility to answer those questions.. because they are important to me. I need to know, I must know.
When I found out the reason through alot of research I was at first.. stunned.. to say the least. I couldn't understand how a former slave would fight "for slavery." How a man could possible fight "for a cause" and risk his very life to that end. It made absolutly no sense to me... none.. noda.. nill!! How can a "free man" possibly fight for slavery? it just boggled my mind. there simply had to be a reason. Till one day. I realised that what I had thought IE "a good and nobel cause" was actually a disguise. So I looked very carefuly at the 13th amendment, I looked carefuly at "the man" who designed it and I started to formulate a reason.
President Lincoln was a self tough lawyer who gre up in the north. at the time the nort was a "busteling metropolis" of commerce. Banks made loans, people bought goods and property on credit... contracts. At the time people could not be held to contracts. IE they were as good as their word. Promacary notes were in effect a mans word, to repay a debt, to be "honerable" in his word was the rule and the measure of a mans "status." Money? Plaaahhhh it was just a means of barter.. a trade.. but when you gave your "word" it was an oath. a promice.. and to fall short was a "disgrace on "your name."
The south at the time was the "owner." They owned everything except the banks and the banks didn't like that. They (the banks) wanted a piece of the action but since they had no authority, they had no say. What better way of cutting in on the action than by taking away the labor.. the bought and paid for labor? The cause was "good" but the reason was for financial gain. The north wanted a slice of the pie.They wanted the south to become "debtors" like many of the people in the north were but they needed a way to do that. What better way than to "abolish slavery", cut loose the slaves and the south will have to pay, they will in effect become less profitable and the north will be able to capitlaize on it. How? well lets just say I were president and I were a laywer and accountant and I wanted to increase the income for the federal government, my lawyer bretheren and accountants. How could I make EVERYONE happy? How can I secure control for ME and my "buddies" in government? It's simple.. by releasing the slaves it initiates the need for workers. those workers pay taxes, those taxes pay government, AND the crowning jewl.. the government gets control AND can "determine" what freedom.. err..... I mean what "slavery is... sorry.. had to think there. How can you package the idea? More over, When a war is won who writes the "history books" that are tought to future generations?
That when the federalists wanted to make a chagne to the definition of slavery (the direct antithesis to which is freedom) they were in effect defining what it means to be a "free man." Who better knows freedom than a former slave? I can think of no other. When you study the 13th Amendment, the man who concieved it and what it is "touted" as being you will soon realize that something isn't qute right. Especially when the amendment was never "properly" ratified according to Constitutional "rules." It was "installed" without ratification and it is a very craftily worded amendment. One that a lawyer can easily undertsand, a banker will love, an accountant would applaude and a government seeking control over people would just go apeshit over. Well they did and they won. As a result the government can say to the people. "as a decent law biding society we hereby REQUIRE all citizens to XXXX." Prior to this anyone could do XXXX without the concent of congrees or its "legislation."
A drivers license is a perfect example of a contract between YOU and the government. Prior to that only comercial drivers of "buckboards" carrying goods needed to be licensed IN THE NORHT for the purposes of INSURING the goods. The wanted to make sure the drivers were "competant" before they insured the shipments. In the south they had so much money that the loss of a buckboard by an unlicensed "teamster" ( which is a man charged with a team of horses and a carriage of goods) was really no big deal. Hell they made a friggin BOATLOAD of money so it was an acceptable risk. Again commerce, the banks and the government wanted IN. Not to mention the lawers who were to soon be writing / defending contracts, the government who will be in essance "enslaving" everyone equally according to their "legislation" IE enforcement of contracts.
I wish the civial war was about slavery and the 13th Amendment read " No person shall own another person nor shall slaver or indentured servitude exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
But thats not what the federalists wanted...... Ultimatly they wanted CONTROL over the people which was in direct violation of the United States Constitution. The south knew this, the north kind of knew this but were told a lie. A lie we ALL have suffered with since. Democracy is two woves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.. In a Constitutional republic the lamb can say pizza and get pizza... In a democracy the majority rules and the lamb becomes... lunch. Sure he can still have pizza.. eat all you want little lamb.....yummy stuff but when the wolves need something to snack on.. guess whos invited?
I'm tired.. I need to work at 5:30 I'll probably will read this in the am and be like WTF?
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-04-2006).]
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02:20 AM
Scott-Wa Member
Posts: 5392 From: Tacoma, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002
People are doing a lot of stereotyping of women... black and asian. Not all asian women are submissive, not all black women are 'strong black women'. They are people, just like me and you and everyone else.
Gigantic snip of something that was an attempt at giving background to a viewpoint... just sounded like I was a racist or a pompous ass at best
Suffice to say, I've had some very pleasant experiences with black women that weren't any stereotype, one a sweet mothering sort and the other a open minded freak who liked discussing things we can't talk about on this forum
I say if you like the person, ask them out or just hang with them and see what happens. Race, religon, none of it matters unless it matters to one of you. Screw public perception unless your weak enough to let that destroy the opportunity for a great relationship. To few great people in this world to limit yourself in your search for the good people with artificial criteria. Hang out with those whos company you enjoy... and introduce yourself to those you might feel uncomfortable with and find the common ground. I highly recommend being that person that starts conversations with strangers in shops, the bank line etc.. This weekend I did something like that and ended up working on a dugout canoe for a few hours with a native american. He invited me to try working a slick, I ended up shaving away at a huge cedar log while learning about what he was trying to experience from his cultures past. That led to other conversations with a native american artist later in the day, got to discuss the intentional destruction of their culture when the children were forced into english speaking boarding schools and stripped of all the traditional clothing, hair, language, and religons.
Best bet... start the conversations and then when the ice is broken, shut up and listen. It's amazing what people will tell you if you just listen. Give back but try to really listen and learn. Enjoy your differences rather than letting them alienate you.
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03:10 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by GDS-1: But I guess the worst thing to do to a man--and a race--is to systematicly keep him from learning to read, write, and to eliminate one's past.
I disagree. GENOCIDE is the worst thing you can do to a race. Just ask the American Indian. They would rather die then be a slave. And most of them did. Their spirt was more important to them then their lives.
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03:26 AM
Vonov Member
Posts: 3745 From: Nashville,TN,USA Registered: May 2004
I will be damned...maybe there's hope for the human race after all...people quit yelling and started discussing in here. Amazing, considering the level of vitriol last night. Way cool...
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04:52 AM
GDS-1 Member
Posts: 157 From: Tacoma,WA,USA Registered: Feb 2006
I disagree. GENOCIDE is the worst thing you can do to a race. Just ask the American Indian. They would rather die then be a slave. And most of them did. Their spirt was more important to them then their lives.
That's true....
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03:36 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Ive been here for the last year without even owning a Fiero. Didnt know it was a requirement......... All I have now is a Magnum and a Corvette which arent even close (well the vette is plastic, 2 seats)...lol.
