quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Yeah, keep supporting that AWOL deserting coward Bush. JazzMan

Well I wouldn't call him a deserting coward. I respect the fact that he served and that is a hell of alot more than most people can say so they have no rights to call him a deserter in my books.

I mean I was in the National Guard and I used "Gate 3" alot... matter a fact a whole heck of alot of us did, it was a give and take system.
"You stay and cover me and I'll go then we switch next time." nodd.. nodd.. wink... wink..
Only the officers and officer wannabies used gates 1 and 2.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Which support? The picture of him and Fonda at an anti-war rally? Faked by conservative: http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp

No, I seem to remember pictures of him visiting North Viet Nam. I'm not sure if it was during the war, but f***ing Fonda did. That's treason, buddy. They used to EXECUTE people for that. Now, if they're liberals, they run for president.

quote He was never ever in support of North Vietnam. He was against the war there, though I doubt you have a sufficient grasp of subtlety to understand the difference.

Thanks for the insult. Go ahead, vote for Kerry. I just hope that, if elected, we don't all get killed while he's waffling and talking.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Where can I get a case?

Ask the Saudi Royals

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Like I said in a reply to Jazzman, certain actions in time of war is treason. Don't believe me? Go look it up.

trea·son ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trzn)
n.
Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.
A betrayal of trust or confidence.

Lets examine this so do try to keep up with me buttercup.

Here yee here yee
Court is now in session... The dishonorable judge buttercup presiding, the court will now come to order.

The case of Kerry vs Crainial Analfollicle
Charges will be read as Treason against the American PEOPLE.

My opening statement.
Goodnight your dishonor.

Violation of alligience.. What does that mean in Kerry's case?

1) Kerry swore his alligience to this country, risked life an limb in serving it, served his time, left the service and PEACEFULLY joined the anti government movement.

2) He NEVER betrayed the trust of his men nor the people he swore his alligience to.

3) He NEVER raised a weapon against this country nor fired a shot at a fellow American in anger.

4) He never sold information to neither harboring nor abetted the enemy in any way.

I have given four points to dispute with me on how Kerry should be tried for treason.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Look who is talking. Are you off your medication again?

No your dishonor, I am not on any medication, I can read and understand the english language and I have a high school GED and I am at present an unemployed profesional computer consultant.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Yeah, so let's put him in office so he can waffle and talk tough while we're being attacked. Yeah, good plan. The bottom line for me is, these are tough times. If there is tough and dirty job to do, you better vote Republican if you want something REAL done about it.

Your dishonor?

I fail to see the realivence of your statment in this case.

With all disrespect due your dishonor but you sound alot like a radical extremist instead of a judge, one who is willfully blind that justice may be weighed with the jurisprudence this country was founded upon on this very day.

Your dishonorable to the core buttercup.
Go out and have a few beers maybe even shoot yourself an American citizen that just immigrated to this country.

Then Monday put in your resignation as judge. I hear the post office is looking for people and god knows with all that drivel pouring out of that mouth of yours, you would make a fine postage stamp affixing technician.

I'm voting Independant this year buttercup. Enjoy the republican victory, I know I will.

Retort, acquiesce or more mindless drivel?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: No, I seem to remember pictures of him visiting North Viet Nam. I'm not sure if it was during the war, but f***ing Fonda did. That's treason, buddy. They used to EXECUTE people for that. Now, if they're liberals, they run for president.

i believe he went to north vietnam after the war ended, in his role as POW negotiator. he's on record as disapproving of jane fonda's visit. disagreeing with government policy in a peaceful manner is usually not considered treason in a free country.

sorry i cant be more specific, but it's becoming quite difficult to find non-politicized information about kerry on the web.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Where can I get a case?

http://www.wketchup.com/ketchup/

you can order on their website. I wonder if it is any good.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: http://www.wketchup.com/ketchup/ you can order on their website. I wonder if it is any good.

Anything is better than Heinz 57 different answers to the same question.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: http://www.wketchup.com/ketchup/ you can order on their website. I wonder if it is any good.

I was just about to add that. Not sure where Erik come up with the "Saudi Royals" crack. Maybe he's gonna make a "War for Ketchup" argument.

FYI, the "W" on the label stands for "Washington," as in George. If you look at the label, you'll see George Washington's face on it. I didn't see any references to Saudi Arabia. Heck, I don't think the Saudi family had come to power in 1776, so it would have just been Arabia, but whatever.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I was just about to add that. Not sure where Erik come up with the "Saudi Royals" crack. Maybe he's gonna make a "War for Ketchup" argument.

I let it go for that very reason. Some sort of liberal looking-glass logic will explain it I'm sure. But the resulting meltdown of my brain's neural pathways trying to follow it doesn't sound like fun.

Well, that does it. John Kerry's wife just lost my vote!

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 07-04-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Toddster: I let it go for that very reason. Some sort of liberal looking-glass logic will explain it I'm sure.

I duno about the "liberal" looking-glass logic.

I hear tunafish is good brain food, I never thought of putting W ketchup on it but I'm willing to try almost anything once.

Perhaps I'll try eating my ketchup and tuna sandwich while listening to Motzart...

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-04-2004).]

quote Originally posted by lurker: i believe he went to north vietnam after the war ended, in his role as POW negotiator. he's on record as disapproving of jane fonda's visit. disagreeing with government policy in a peaceful manner is usually not considered treason in a free country.

If that is the truth, then that's fine, and Kerry is off the hook on this matter. I just don't think he's a very good choice, I don't think he'll take a stand on anything, and I don't think he'll be able to make the tough and dirty decision.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: No, I seem to remember pictures of him visiting North Viet Nam. I'm not sure if it was during the war, but f***ing Fonda did. That's treason, buddy. They used to EXECUTE people for that. Now, if they're liberals, they run for president.

So you're saying that you think you saw pictures, but in any case Fonda went so therefor Kerry committed treason?

Let's analyze that convoluted and muddled train of thought, shall we?

1. Kerry and Fonda association. There was, and is, none. There are two photos known that show both in the same frame. One is from a peaceful anti-war rally in 1970: http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp Clearly in this photo it is likely that Fonda doesn't even know he exists. This was months before Fonda's ill-conceived and much derided trip to Vietnam, so not only is the place context wrong but so is the time context. Oh, and Fonda hasn't indicated any desire to run for President. BTW, Kerry was, and is, on record as being against that Fonda debacle. His disagreement was, and is, pretty strong. Oh, there is a picture of Kerry and Fonda together, but it was photoshopped and is still being spread around by Republican extremists as factual: http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp If that's the photo you're thinking of, you should stop mentioning it because it's been thoroughly debunked and all you accomplish by bringing it up is to make yourself look deluded. I've met you, you seem much smarter than that.

2. Pictures of him visiting Vietnam. Well, actually, Kerry did visit Vietnam. In 1993. Almost 20 years after the end of the war. His mission? To help normalize relations as part of the process of getting our MIA soldiers remains returned for honorable burial here at home. That picture was hung in a Vietnamese museum dedicated to the history of the war there, by the Vietnamese. Extremist Republicans have taken that out of context in their lies and distortions and turned it into yet another email decrying Kerry. More lies. Why people find it easier to believe lies rather than the truth I don't know. If I'd been paying attention to politics in 1993 when Kerry went to Vietnam I would have thought his goals were good. Eh, I was apolytical then so I didn't pay attention. Here's a link: http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?s=cddb0527ceb94a9dfe529d7e7e3124a2&showtopic=39573&st=0&#entry307714

To sum up, Kerry went to Vietnam on two occasions. The first was as a soldier, and he saved many lives and to all accounts was an exemplary soldier while there. The second time he went was part of the process to get our MIA/KIA remains back home, that too was very honorable. Since Fonda isn't running for President her presence in this discussion is meaningless, meant more as an attempt to slur Kerry's character than anything else.

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by fierobear: OK, Mr. Bill, whatever you say.

Ok then
Baseless retort AND more mindless drivel.

That leaves only passive concurence.

Looks like I win.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-04-2004).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Well I wouldn't call him a deserting coward. I respect the fact that he served and that is a hell of alot more than most people can say so they have no rights to call him a deserter in my books.

But that's just it, he didn't serve. He didn't show up for the last, what, almost a year? He went AWOL, meaning Absent Without Leave, and never ever came back. At that point he should have been sent to Vietnam to do his duty like so many other Americans did.

If Bush had just done his duty this wouldn't be such an issue, but someone probably died in Vietnam because Bush took that ANG slot using his daddy's political connections, and he wasted that slot.

Kerry went, Kerry served, Kerry saved lives, Kerry did the honorable thing in all respects. In fact, Kerry volunteered to go to Vietnam, not cower and hide like Bush did.

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: But that's just it, he didn't serve. He didn't show up for the last, what, almost a year? He went AWOL, meaning Absent Without Leave, and never ever came back. At that point he should have been sent to Vietnam to do his duty like so many other Americans did. If Bush had just done his duty this wouldn't be such an issue, but someone probably died in Vietnam because Bush took that ANG slot using his daddy's political connections, and he wasted that slot. Kerry went, Kerry served, Kerry saved lives, Kerry did the honorable thing in all respects. In fact, Kerry volunteered to go to Vietnam, not cower and hide like Bush did. JazzMan

I'll buy AWOL but he was not "cowardly" as far as I am concerned.

I'm sure a tribunal would find him guilty and convict with a dishonorable discharge but definatly not desertion or dereliction of duty. It's hard to convict a warrant officer of that.

However, BOTH of these men are my brothers in arms. There is nothing you can say about either ones military record (short of fragging someone of equal or lesser rank) that will make me change my mind.

I will however condem Bush for recently fragging my brothers and sisters in arms needlessly.. I am VERY upset about that, Bush aint the only one I'm pissed off with when it comes to that. In fact you can include corporate America, Chainey, Rice, Rummsfeld, the suppreme court and a host of others for this utter travasty beginning with and even prior to 9/11 and all the bullshit that has caused 9/11 and everything that has happened since.

So Bush is very high on my chit list,
I believe Kerry is a good man but (I strongly think) he is or was a heavy drinker. He is also a puppet of the democratic party so his ideas will be stiffeled by that and I can imagine the pressure he will face, I have a feeling he will buckel under the pressure and start hitting the hooch... again. I like Kerry but he is the lesser of two evils and I am sick and tired of evil slipping in "under the wire" and attacking America quietly from within. Kerry knows all about the evil enemy getting in under the wire under the cloak of darkness....

I was never there but I fully understand the terror involved in such infiltrations and the feeling of the associated insecurity... you know the enemy is in your midst but you cant see him and you don't want to kill your buddies either so you cant shoot first then find out who is there AND you don't want to give up your position or it could mean instant death to you...

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: I hear tunafish is good brain food, I never thought of putting W ketchup on it but I'm willing to try almost anything once. Perhaps I'll try eating my ketchup and tuna sandwich while listening to Motzart...

Well, that might have been true before the Ocean's mercury levels jumped 1000%. BTW, one 't' in Mozart. You cna blame it on the mercury.

quote LOL!! Dude you have been killing me lately!!!

Thank you very much. I'm here til Thursday. Be sure to tip your waiter.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Thank you very much. I'm here til Thursday. Be sure to tip your waiter.

Sure... don't put ketchup on a tunafish sandwich.

You could use poormans Russian saled dressing (ketchup mayo mixed well) on it but definatly not ketchup alone.

Thats 2 tips, keep tha change.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Ok then Baseless retort AND more mindless drivel. Looks like I win.

Hey Bear this is coming from the master of baseless retort and mindless drivel.I would take note if i were you.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Hey Bear this is coming from the master of baseless retort and mindless drivel.I would take note if i were you.

That would require alot of note taking.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Hey Bear this is coming from the master of baseless retort and mindless drivel.I would take note if i were you.

Oh, yeah, he wins. He's a legend in his own mind.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Oh, yeah, he wins. He's a legend in his own mind.

Apparently you do not recognize a man who served your country with distinction and honor.

I may be a legend in my own mind but you sir are mindless.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: I may be a legend in my own mind but you sir are mindless.

Time to go back into "84Bill ignore mode" again.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: You're right, I was mistaken. That doesn't change the fact that Kerry is a zero as far as a politician. If you vote for him, I hope you believe in prayer.

Since when are Senators "zeros"? National political experience for multiple terms doesn't hold up to being a one term state governor, I guess. I'm not saying I love Kerry, but don't you people ever have that moment of clarity where you think "My God, I'm supporting that? Am I really swallowing this bullsh1t? Do I really believe my own hype?"

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Well I wouldn't call him a deserting coward. I respect the fact that he served and that is a hell of alot more than most people can say so they have no rights to call him a deserter in my books. I mean I was in the National Guard and I used "Gate 3" alot... matter a fact a whole heck of alot of us did, it was a give and take system. "You stay and cover me and I'll go then we switch next time." nodd.. nodd.. wink... wink.. Only the officers and officer wannabies used gates 1 and 2.

So IOW he wasn't even an officer wannabe, but now he's commander in chief???

GL

quote Originally posted by Tugboat: So IOW he wasn't even an officer wannabe, but now he's commander in chief??? GL

Yep... NOW he is guilty of being an inept officer... I liked him better when he was AWOL. Maybe he is AWOL now, if that is the case then I vote for a dishonorable discharge..

Anyone else agree?

gwb is a bit of a mystery to me. he doesnt seem to be especially bright, or even sufficiently ambitious to run for or win the presidency on his own merits (although these traits are not always required in presidents).

so what i really want to know is, who's pulling the strings, and does george know it's happening? is it George Sr(smart)? Cheny(smart and ambitious)? Ashcroft(ambitious)? someone further behind the scenes?

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 07-06-2004).]

quote Originally posted by stimpy: Since when are Senators "zeros"? National political experience for multiple terms doesn't hold up to being a one term state governor, I guess. I'm not saying I love Kerry, but don't you people ever have that moment of clarity where you think "My God, I'm supporting that? Am I really swallowing this bullsh1t? Do I really believe my own hype?"

Political longevity does not make someone a great person. How many POS have you seen in office for years?

I'm not under any illusions that Bush 2 is the best president we've ever had, far from it, I just like the Democratic party agenda that much less. Sickening, isn't it, that we have to resort to such choices.

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 07-06-2004).]

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Sickening, isn't it, that we have to resort to such choices.

oh, no, we agree on something! AHHHHHHH!

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Political longevity does not make someone a great person. How many POS have you seen in office for years? I'm not under any illusions that Bush 2 is the best president we've ever had, far from it, I just like the Democratic party agenda that much less. Sickening, isn't it, that we have to resort to such choices.

Dear god!

:::Pounds head on wall:::

This isnt happening....... This isnt happening....... This isnt happening.......

I agree :::starts to cry and pray::: oh lord....please spare me this awfull tourture.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Lets examine this so do try to keep up with me buttercup. Your dishonorable to the core buttercup. I'm voting Independant this year buttercup.

YOU TALKIN' TO ME?

Lets see here.... Name calling Mmm.... The sign of an iteligent idiot!

I'd rather see this thread back on track.

If there's any truth to the original story there is a MAJOR problem running for our highest office.

Oh, man. Me, lurker and mrbill agree? Is the apocalypse at hand?

Hey, I have an idea. Let's dump Bush and Kerry, and write Stimpy in as president. That'll shake things up.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Oh, man. Me, lurker and mrbill agree? Is the apocalypse at hand? Hey, I have an idea. Let's dump Bush and Kerry, and write Stimpy in as president. That'll shake things up.

i'm in.

Are you kidding? I've got WAY too much muck to rake up in my past. I inhaled and everything!

quote Originally posted by stimpy: Are you kidding? I've got WAY too much muck to rake up in my past. I inhaled and everything!

so did i. no problem. can i be in charge of homeland security?