SPEC stage 4 springless on a 3800 s/c Series II (pretty much stock) and 4 speed manual. I've been chasing a clunk/clank since last fall. I guess I've found it. Clutch hub is shifting on clutch plate! This was supposed to be the answer to the exploding hub springs in the Stage 3. You can see in these pics how the rivets are all shifted. You can also see where the rivets have been scraping back and forth with the torque.

Thats too bad that happened.

My Spec 3 has been holding up just fine. I'll keep my fingers crossed it stays like that. If anything happens to mine, I'll be switching the whole tranny over to a 5spd. I could use that extra gear these days.

With the rivits moving like that it is good you caught the problem before you needed the tow truck.

Pete

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88 3800 turbo

Imagine my surprise.

We could fill a 5yard dumpster with the amount of quality control related failures from spec clutches on this forum....

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: We could fill a 5yard dumpster with the amount of quality control related failures from spec clutches on this forum....

Sad part is, you're right. They seem to be very hit or miss.

I'm glad my ClutchNet clutch doesn't do that ( hint-hint ).

Well I have a 4T65 E HD I've been thinking about. I just didn't want to do a swap like that in the middle of our already too short Fiero season. All in all a SPEC tacular pain in my backside.

DF

I was just about to pull the trigger on a SPEC stage 3 and your post made me change my mind. I had read several posts about the clutch failing and yours was the one that drew the line.


I had heard alot about clutchnet but everyone said they were really expensive so I never looked them up. Well you post forced me to go and have a look so I went on the Clutchnet site... notice they had a sale going on 15% off the clutches and free shipping to the USA. I just ordered a stage 4 clutchnet 6 puck clutch and red pressure plate for $279 shipped.

Thanks for posting about your experience. Not only did I get a better clutch but I got a kick ass price.

PS. use promotional code "Spring" to obtain the 15% off rebate

[This message has been edited by FieroMontreal (edited 04-08-2012).]

What does Spec have to say about this?

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: What does Spec have to say about this?

I haven't spoken to SPEC. The clutch was purchased in 2009 installed on my sons N* which he promptly blew up. It sat in my driveway until last winter when I grabbed it and used on my 3800 S/C. It didn't even go one Fiero season for me. SPECs warrants their stuff for 120 days.

DF

quote Originally posted by Dave E Bouy: I haven't spoken to SPEC. The clutch was purchased in 2009 installed on my sons N* which he promptly blew up. It sat in my driveway until last winter when I grabbed it and used on my 3800 S/C. It didn't even go one Fiero season for me. SPECs warrants their stuff for 120 days. DF

no excuse, you can see that there is little to no wear... Get a new one out of the deal at least.

Nothing like accusation, trial, and sentencing before the accused even knows there is an issue.

As we all know, these cars have excessive input-shaft play as a result of the lack of pilot-bearing in their design. This can be made worse by a front trans bearing that is worn as a result of use and age. That being said my first suggestion is to check the amount of shaft play present in this transmission (and ideally in the original transmission since it has been installed in two different cars since it was originally purchased ~3 years ago). Additionally, what was the cause of the engine failure in the original car? I ask because if the clutch was forced to rebound (shock occuring in the opposite direction of its normal rotation) as a result it would most certainly affect the hub.

It's also worth noting that an "issue with your clutch" is not always the result of an issue with the clutch itself. As many of your know we build standard and conversion based assemblies for these cars and have been for many years. We sell thousands of clutch kits for this application and its assorted conversions and we have a less than 1% return rate on the product (this includes parts that are miss-ordered, parts that are returned for rebuild, parts that are miss-installed, parts that are miss-used, parts that are damaged in shipment, and yes parts that have a legitimate manufacturing or materials issue).

Beyond that, though the parts are well outside the warranty period I will do what I can to assist the customer, be that issuing an RMA to examine the parts further or offering a reduced price on the cost of a new disc.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I'm glad my ClutchNet clutch doesn't do that ( hint-hint ).

I'm sure once a lot of people go to clutchnet then we will see the same issues. Problem is we always do angry posts when an unit fails. Who likes changing a clutch in a Fiero? Not me. But when it is working fine we are just driving.

To answer some of your questions Jeremy. . . I have since checked for any shaft play from the input shaft of my transmission and I get zip, zero, zilch. I can't check for play in the trans this clutch was originally attached to as it is in use on another Fiero. The engine failure in the first car was a broken ring land at high speed and rpm but there was no lock up and in fact the car was driven home. As I mentioned above the car had been sitting in my driveway for at least 1 1/2 years before I inherited it and it's clutch. In all honesty I loved this clutch. Lots of grip but also very nice engagement. I'll miss it. When you mention a reduced price on a new disk what did you have in mind?

DF

quote Originally posted by Jeremy@SPEC: Nothing like accusation, trial, and sentencing before the accused even knows there is an issue. As we all know, these cars have excessive input-shaft play as a result of the lack of pilot-bearing in their design. This can be made worse by a front trans bearing that is worn as a result of use and age. That being said my first suggestion is to check the amount of shaft play present in this transmission (and ideally in the original transmission since it has been installed in two different cars since it was originally purchased ~3 years ago). Additionally, what was the cause of the engine failure in the original car? I ask because if the clutch was forced to rebound (shock occuring in the opposite direction of its normal rotation) as a result it would most certainly affect the hub. It's also worth noting that an "issue with your clutch" is not always the result of an issue with the clutch itself. As many of your know we build standard and conversion based assemblies for these cars and have been for many years. We sell thousands of clutch kits for this application and its assorted conversions and we have a less than 1% return rate on the product (this includes parts that are miss-ordered, parts that are returned for rebuild, parts that are miss-installed, parts that are miss-used, parts that are damaged in shipment, and yes parts that have a legitimate manufacturing or materials issue). Beyond that, though the parts are well outside the warranty period I will do what I can to assist the customer, be that issuing an RMA to examine the parts further or offering a reduced price on the cost of a new disc.

quote Originally posted by Jeremy@SPEC: Nothing like accusation, trial, and sentencing before the accused even knows there is an issue. As we all know, these cars have excessive input-shaft play as a result of the lack of pilot-bearing in their design. This can be made worse by a front trans bearing that is worn as a result of use and age. That being said my first suggestion is to check the amount of shaft play present in this transmission (and ideally in the original transmission since it has been installed in two different cars since it was originally purchased ~3 years ago). Additionally, what was the cause of the engine failure in the original car? I ask because if the clutch was forced to rebound (shock occuring in the opposite direction of its normal rotation) as a result it would most certainly affect the hub. It's also worth noting that an "issue with your clutch" is not always the result of an issue with the clutch itself. As many of your know we build standard and conversion based assemblies for these cars and have been for many years. We sell thousands of clutch kits for this application and its assorted conversions and we have a less than 1% return rate on the product (this includes parts that are miss-ordered, parts that are returned for rebuild, parts that are miss-installed, parts that are miss-used, parts that are damaged in shipment, and yes parts that have a legitimate manufacturing or materials issue). Beyond that, though the parts are well outside the warranty period I will do what I can to assist the customer, be that issuing an RMA to examine the parts further or offering a reduced price on the cost of a new disc.

I wonder what the story is about my clutch setup that Dave (bmwguru) got from you guys? You yourself told both him and me when I called that the 3800 / F40 flywheel and clutch setup was drop in and plug and play. Well, he went through 2 slave cylinders in my BRAND NEW transmission because the measurements were off and it actually needed a spacer. This caused the slave to hyper extend and fail. You guys wanted him to PAY for the spacer after you yourself assured him one wasn't needed. On top of that, he was actually accused of doing something like beating on the car to cause excessive wear of the clutch. This car has only been taken around the parking lot a couple of times, as it was only brought to driving condition after the first of the year.

Now there's the additional cost of the labor and the two slave cylinders the car went through all because your assurance didn't amount to much. Dave (bmwguru) probably won't push the matter further from the sounds of it, but you can rest assured if it fails on me after I get it back, and it turns out to be because your setup wasn't as capable as you claimed, there will be attorneys involved. You won't be able to say you didn't know there was an issue on my car, because you were notified by Dave (bmwguru) and now again by me.

I eagerly await your response to this.

Sorry OP I couldn't refrain from throwing this out seeing how defensive Jeremy came out in the thread, and knowing there have been MANY issues with SPEC on this forum.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 04-12-2012).]

Here is some Good and some Caution when it comes to Clutch net. First off the Good, so far, we have installed 4 of their clutches, all 6 puck sprung hub. 2 with Red level pressure plates, and 2 with Yellow Level pressure plates. One is in my V8 with a red level pressure plate hooked to a Getrag 5spd with Nitrous, and has held up remarkably well. Constant clutch dumps, down shifts so hard that it has barked the tires and some high rpm slips. 2nd Clutch is installed in a fellow members Autocross 3.2 V6 4spd car that has ran slicks and seriously beaten on the car without any failures in 2 or 3 seasons of Autocross racing. The other 2 clutches were installed in relatively stock V6 cars, the biggest drawback is there rather rapid engagement points, and if you try to take off slow and smooth you will more often than not get some chatter. However I am assuming that this is more to do with them being 6 puck and if you chose a softer clutch you would not have a problem with it.

Now for the caution. When I ordered my 5spd clutch it was right first time no issue. However both times that I have ordered for the 4spd's it has been a major nightmare. They had to ship no less than 3 different pressure plates on both occasions before they finally got me the right one. It was a major nightmare as just when you think you are almost done with a job, trans is back in, bell housing is bolted up, only to realize the motor is locked up and won't turn. Fortunately I had not put the cradle back up yet, as I caught the issue when I happened to reach up to the clutch release arm and found ti jammed. Then shipping took forever on the replacement pressure plates. From the time I started one of the cars it took nearly 6 weeks to get it all sorted out. Needless to say the owner of the car was not very happy. He understood it was not my fault, but none the less, it was very frustrating.

In the end, I am still willing to deal with them, because frankly I have not found another clutch that I have been able to trust this much. I took a brand new Centerforce Dual Friction and turned it into scrap metal in the course of 6 months. I have destroyed OEM clutches and this darn Clutch net Clutch has out lasted every one of them 10 fold. I just helped another one of our club guys source out a Clutch net clutch for his 3800S/C car as well. So if I hear anything out of the ordinary I'll ask him to post on here.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

Sounds like the fact that it has a fast engagement is saving itself. IMO, clutch dumps would do more damage to the transmission/axles then the clutch.

Had to dig up an old Archive topic its been a lot longer than I thought since I installed the clutch, but this has some great pics of my disk and pressure place.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...0502-2-090893-2.html

Mattwa, you are right, dumps won't burn out a disk but they will destroy the hubs in disks. So its really 1/2 dozen one 1/2 dozen the other.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

Well just to wrap this story up, a buddy (PFF spearce) donated a stage 3 clutch disk my way and I installed it today. Seems to work quite well so at least I'll be able to finish the season without having to drop the whole drive train. Oops hope I didn't jut jinx myself.

DF

Cool! Good luck with your ride.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: We could fill a 5yard dumpster with the amount of quality control related failures from spec clutches on this forum....

and on other forums.
Google Spec Clutches and see the amount of complaints from all over. IMO their product sucks, their customer service rep is a finger pointing as*hole and I wouldn't use their product if they gave it to me for free. Yes I know a few guys here have used them and they hold up well when driving the car in a school zone or around town, sometimes!.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Jeremy@SPEC: As we all know, these cars have excessive input-shaft play as a result of the lack of pilot-bearing in their design.

Bullshit.

I have several 282's on the shelf. I can put indicators on them and get *BOTH* bearing play and shaft runout numbers for you *BUT* first you have to tell me what numbers you're using when designing your clutches.

I appreciate very much that you're actively involved in this forum. Thank you for your willingness to do that. I'm willing to work with you to get to the bottom of this, *BUT* we should actually evaluate the circumstances using actual data.

Your contention that the fact that the transmission is the problem because it doesn't use a pilot bearing doesn't make any sense. Other clutches don't have the same failure rates or failure mechanisms as yours, when used with the same transmissions.
The input shaft is supported by two bearings inside the transmission. Having a pilot bearing would actually be bad engineering.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-16-2012).]

Hey Will you think "that" is a Centerforce grenade. Take a quick peek at my blown Centerforce. I wonder if they made mine from left over pop can tin.

Lots of pics at the link but I'll post a teaser below.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...090907-2-088561.html


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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

[This message has been edited by Capt Fiero (edited 04-16-2012).]

I didn't say it was impressive... just that it was a confirmed kill. My driving style gets the car to perform while being pretty easy on driveline parts.

Bullet proof is not nitrous proof.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-16-2012).]

LOL, yes I do drive on the ragged edge, however even at my age (36) I still like the smell and feel of a good smokey burnout or the look on some guys face when he just realizes that his 50,000 sports car just got spanked by a middle aged guy in a $5000 Fiero. Oh and back then I was not using the Nitrous, motor only.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.