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Jeff's 88 GT / 3800 SC II Swap by katatak
Started on: 05-30-2010 01:31 PM
Replies: 129
Last post by: katatak on 10-05-2010 07:42 PM
katatak
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Report this Post08-21-2010 10:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by americasfuture2k:

wish i could help ya out on your missing plug issue.. but this is all very insightful! i need to get my cradle cleaned up and up on a cradle bench. but like ive seen you say.. its just too darn hot. especially in the garage.


I hear you on the heat issue. It's 8:45 in the morning and it's pushing 100*. Found out that the trans plug only requires the one plug - the smaller one is not used in the late model (2003) harness. Still hunting the location of the 2 pin plug. I'll post up the solution once we find it. Hope it cools off - for both of us.

Pat

IOP3

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 08-21-2010).]

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katatak
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Report this Post08-21-2010 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Worked on the swap all day today - spent a lot of time getting the belts right. We were successful but had a few "issues" to overcome. Installed a new 3 pin temp sensor, New OP sending unit. Got the E Brake cables back in and the E Brake adjusted. All the harness is complete now except for the C500. Still debating on Battery/Coil pack location. Figured out the Driver side coolant hose. Laid out the trans cooler lines. Maybe we will get her fired up tomorrow!

Had to "trim" this little stud down a bit to keep it from rubbing the belt:


Getting close!


More tomorrow!

Pat
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Report this Post08-22-2010 12:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Chris HodsonSend a Private Message to Chris HodsonDirect Link to This Post
You are right about where i am. Except I do not have my pass axle built Im also not sure whats going on with my computer :/ It looks great, I cant wait to see more pics!
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katatak
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Report this Post08-22-2010 11:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Chris Hodson:

You are right about where i am. Except I do not have my pass axle built Im also not sure whats going on with my computer :/ It looks great, I cant wait to see more pics!


Hey Chris - thanks for the reply. Just when I think I'm close to cranking it over, I spend another day cleaning up loose ends. I hear you on the pass axle. I procrastinated for a long time over the axle. Once I got into it and tried a few things, it was fairly easy to build - ofcourse I had to do it the hard way and try a number of different combo's. I'm hard headed that way. Good luck on your swap. I'd definitely do another 3800 SC swap.

Pat

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katatak
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Report this Post08-23-2010 12:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Update for today!

Was so busy I did not take one pic today. I'll get some of our progress and post tomorrow. We managed to get the coolant hoses "located" and installed today. I'll post the part numbers tomorrow - we ended up rumaging around the AZ hose selection till we found hoses that would fit with little to no cutting. When I tried to get the guy at AZ to tell me wht the hoses were for (what vehicle), he could not tell me - just gave him part numbers? Anyway, maybe the AZ numbers can be crossed to another manufacturer/vehicle. We did have to trim both hoses to proper length but both remain a continuous hose - no splices! We also got the heater hoses connected.

This car had a trans cooler on the passenger side 1/4 scoop and an engine oil cooler on the driver side 1/4 scoop. There is no setup for an engine oil cooler on this 3800 so we are going to use it as trans cooler too. We will have 2 trans coolers so the "plumbing" has been a little time consuming. We picked up some 3/8" steel tubing and a tubing bender this morning and 90% of the trans lines from the trans to the PS cooler, from the PS cooler to the DS cooler and back to the trans is metal! So far it is turning out very nice and clean. We have a few connections left to make and that "little" project will be done.

Jeff got some of the old wiring harness cover replaced and added some ADEL clamps to tighten everything up. He made a bracket for the MAP sensor and got it mounted, wired and the vac hose installed. He had a custom made torque strut made for the 4.9 that was in the car. He really wanted to see if we could find a way to use it for the 3800. I started making some brackets this afternoon. Another time consuming project but I made good progress. The plan is to fab a mount that bolts to the end of the trans - where the original motor mount was and then another mount that will be welded to the cradle. I'll get some pics of it posted tomorrow after I "clean" up some welds and get the brackets painted. I think it will work fine - we will see!

It's amazing to me just how much little stuff there is to do for a swap. You never think about all these little things and these are the things that really take the bulk of the time. Mounting the engine to the cradle, building the axles and stuffing it in the car was nothing compared to all the little things. Plus the cost of all the little parts, clamps, bolts, tubing, hoses, cables, paint, air cleaner's, wires, tape, loom, etc. etc....... accounts for probably half the cost of the swap. We kind of are doing some things backwards. We stuffed the motor in the car to check for clearance and axle build with the intention of taking it back out to finsih up the wiring harness, belt, hoses, etc. Befroe we knew it, we had the axles installed with all the suspension, etc. and decided that we could "finish" all the little things with the motor in the car - big mistake - it takes twice as long to finish this stuff with the motor in the car. I think it would be easier to pull the motor 2 or 3 times to get everything setup versus one install and then throw all the little things at the motor in the car. The less I have to lay on the concrete the faster I move..... I'll chalk it up to lessons learned and I'll be better off for it when the next swap starts.

Estimated finsh date now is next Saturday. Here's what's left:

Finish the trans cooler's
Attach the Fuel lines at the fuel rail
Battery relocation - run the power and ground cables.
Hook up the C500
Install the belts
Finish the torque strut
New oil & filter - trans fluid too.
Final decision and mount the coil pack
Install the ECM and button up the interior
Shift cable bracket
Recheck all the mount bolts, cradle, suspension, etc.
Fill the coolant
Gas
Crank on it till she fires!
Then finsih the exhaust!

Sounds like a lot! Will take most the week in the evenings, all day Friday and Saturday.

More tomorrow!

Pat
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post08-23-2010 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by katatak:





Pat


Please tell me that is not where the intake filter is staying.......If so then move it down in the stock intake location in the 1/4 panel. With where it is the filter will suck in so much heat you will loose tons over it.....and I know it is HOT in El Paso......The loose ends take up more of your time then actaully getting the motor/trans mounted up and put in. But like you said it is the little things that you take extra time on that really make a differance....

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Report this Post08-23-2010 12:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Carver1Click Here to Email Carver1Send a Private Message to Carver1Direct Link to This Post
I agree on the intake! I have the tiny round filter on the 4.9, and after driving it around all day, there is a difference. It has plenty of power when cold, but after warm up, it drops off alot! I will be routing mine somewhere a little cooler.
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katatak
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Report this Post08-23-2010 10:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
We are looking for a suitable "intake tube" to get the filter closer if not inside the quarter panel. I got a little more done on the torque strut brackets this afternoon - after the piant dries, I will install it.

Ready for paint:





More later!

Pat
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katatak
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Report this Post08-23-2010 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Carver1:

I agree on the intake! I have the tiny round filter on the 4.9, and after driving it around all day, there is a difference. It has plenty of power when cold, but after warm up, it drops off alot! I will be routing mine somewhere a little cooler.


Thats why I put this setup on the XTC:





We have noticed a difference in overall operating temp (lower), fuel mileage (better) and power (more) since we installed it. I read somewhere - I think it was on the 4.9 Caddy forum that the 4.9 does not like "cold" air. I don't think those 4.9 guys drive in the Southwest!

Pat
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katatak
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Report this Post08-24-2010 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Got a little more done on the torque strut this afternoon. Brackets pianted and the trans bracket bolted on. Just have to weld the cradle bracket in place.

I think it will work!


More tomorrow!

Pat
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Report this Post08-25-2010 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Direct Link to This Post
Nice work Pat! What is you schedule for Thursday? Lunch?
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katatak
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Report this Post08-25-2010 09:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Hey Rick,

Got a little bit of work to do in the AM - Jeff was saying he thought he was off Thursday. I think he's coming over to tie up some loose ends on his car. Lunch sounds like a plan. I'll give you a call when I hear from Jeff.
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katatak
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Report this Post08-25-2010 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post

katatak

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Member since Apr 2008
Got some more done on Jeff's car today. Got the cradle/torque strut bracket welded and painted - the torque strut is complete. I flushed the oil cooler and installed the inner fender well back in the car. Also got the DS coolant hose installed and worked on the Trans cooler lines some.

More later!

Pat

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Report this Post08-26-2010 10:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Direct Link to This Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by katatak:

Hey Rick,

Got a little bit of work to do in the AM - Jeff was saying he thought he was off Thursday. I think he's coming over to tie up some loose ends on his car. Lunch sounds like a plan. I'll give you a call when I hear from Jeff.[/QUOTE

Ok. I am taking the red car down for a TSI, and then finishing up some errands this am. Give me a call on my work mobile.
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Report this Post08-26-2010 10:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinDirect Link to This Post
Looking really good Pat!
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katatak
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Report this Post08-26-2010 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by revin:

Looking really good Pat!


Hey Revin!

Thanks for checking in! Have not heard much from you lately - been busy?

Pat
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katatak
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Report this Post08-26-2010 11:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Jeff and I got a lot done today. Rick came by and helped out. We got the Trans coolers hooked up, Battery cables installed, New oil and filter, Fuel lines hooked up, Belts on, wiring cleaned up, throttle cable installed, rechecked everything, poured in some go juice then cycled the key about 6 times to get the Fuel pressure up. Held our breath and cranked it over. She turned over about 3 times and fired off. Ran perfect! Had good oil pressure, the gas gauge works, the volt meter worked, the temp appeared to be working (we did not let it get good and warm) - but no tach - we will have to chase that down tomorrow. No leaks on the floor but one of my welds on the Fiero fill neck was pissing a little stream so I'll have to take it off and weld it up a little better. Just have the Exhaust left and button up the interior. Waiting on a shift cable bracket from WCF and she will be done!

Hats off to Fieroflyer for building us a plug and play harness. Thanks Dan for all your help! We may need to pick your brain on the tach issue. Can I use Win ALDL with this PCM? If so, which PCM should I use?





Got to clean up the coil pack bracket some - this is just the mock up.


Should have some video tomorrow after we finish the exhaust.

Pat
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Report this Post08-27-2010 12:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Direct Link to This Post
It's alive.....alive. "Transplant" lives!
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katatak
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Report this Post08-28-2010 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Trying to button it all up today - got the exhaust done:




More later

Pat

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 08-28-2010).]

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katatak
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Report this Post08-28-2010 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Here's a video of the car running - note the "rev limiter" working with the car in park.

http://s525.photobucket.com...current=DSCN0256.mp4

More in a minute!

Pat

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 08-28-2010).]

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Report this Post08-28-2010 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Hulki U. My-BFFClick Here to Email Hulki U. My-BFFSend a Private Message to Hulki U. My-BFFDirect Link to This Post
Pat, I'm flying you to PA to do an engine swap with me. Very nice work.
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Report this Post08-28-2010 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by katatak:

Here's a video of the car running - note the "rev limiter" working with the car in park.

http://s525.photobucket.com...current=DSCN0256.mp4

More in a minute!

Pat



Funny thing about those "rev limiters"

Sounds good! Maybe I can come by and really hear it tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by Rick 88 (edited 08-28-2010).]

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katatak
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Report this Post08-28-2010 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
A few more pics while the last video is uploading!

After several qts of trans fluid (after all, this engine was in a car that went udside down) Jeff takes her out for her first drive!


When he came back I got to take her for a spin! I think I'll get in trouble for this!


More video in a minute!

Pat

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Report this Post08-28-2010 08:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Direct Link to This Post
Ok Ok Ok.....how does it drive???
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katatak
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Report this Post08-28-2010 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Ok.... When I drove it, I wanted to make sure it shifted into all 4 gears - yes it did and did it well. I took it down a back street and put the hammer down. Rolling at about 20, it shifted down - wiggled it's butt a little and took off. Held her on till she shifted into 3rd and shut her down - that was enough for me! I got to have one in my Formula now! She runs great, drives great and sounds great! Pulling up in the driveway, I did not even get after it just rolling up the curb and she spun em. Just got to finsih the AC and put the decklid back on and she will be ready for fun!

In this video, the stunt driver (Jeff) was supposed to turn onto my street and get her a little sideways - he was having so much fun, he forgot to turn!
http://s525.photobucket.com...current=DSCN0258.mp4

When the AC is done and the decklid is on, we will take it for a spin and some more video..

Pat

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 08-30-2010).]

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Report this Post08-28-2010 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Carver1Click Here to Email Carver1Send a Private Message to Carver1Direct Link to This Post
WOW!
(adding to my bucket list....)
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katatak
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Report this Post08-30-2010 11:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
So after our test drives on Saturday, we noticed a slight "squeak" in the right side. This afternoon, I went out to the garage to take a look - I thought maybe the dust shield was rubbing. Then I got to thinking about the sway bar and how close it was to the axle when we put it back together. If you look back in this thread you will find a post where we put it in and then thought it was backwards so we turned it around. Well, after looking it over today, we have it in backwards now. Sometimes when you get old and think you know it all, you should slam your head against a rock wall to clear out the cob webs. I have a completely stock never touched 88 Formula sitting in my driveway - how easy would it have been to just go over and take a look? Anyway, that's what I did today and sure enough, it's upside down. No why would I go ahead and admit that I made such a bone head mistake? Simply in the hopes that it may save one other Fiero fanatic the same embarrasment and heart ache! Learn from my mistakes and your "Fiero" life will be much better.

On a bright note, the sway bar is not the source of the squeak. I think it's a bad bearing in a belt idler. I'll narrow it down tomorrow after we swap the sway bar around. Only problem here is that I have the exhaust hangers installed and they will be a major PITA to remove so we can drop the back of the cradle down. It never ends - It's a good thing I really like these little cars!

More tomorrow!

Pat
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Report this Post08-31-2010 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JamesCurtisClick Here to Email JamesCurtisSend a Private Message to JamesCurtisDirect Link to This Post
Check your decklid hinge support if you put the decklid on. Mine squeeled REALLY bad when I put it on. The pulley was interfering with the decklid hinge spring.

------------------

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Report this Post08-31-2010 02:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
Sounds good...You will love the 3800SC in the Fiero...It is like it was made for it....Hope to see it at the Rukus coming up in a few months...Get a AeroForce scanner to mount in the car so it can be scanned while driving....

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Report this Post08-31-2010 04:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Direct Link to This Post
I can't believe we ended up installing the sway bar upside down after all.

Geez, maybe we need to label it "this side up".

[This message has been edited by Rick 88 (edited 08-31-2010).]

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katatak
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Report this Post08-31-2010 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
James-

Thanks for the reply - no deck lid was installed but that's something else we will have to look at.

Stephen - got a link for the scanner? Sounds like a must have! Thanks!

Rick - I am still trying to figure out how we had it right then decided it was wrong and flopped it only to find out that we were right the first time. I think it was all your slave driving the day we installed it. I must have been exhausted due to lack of union breaks.

Today, we managed to get the sway bar installed the correct way. Had to drop the exhaust - which we had the hangers welded in - so I had to cut them with the sawzall! Then we were able to drop the rear of the cradle enought to flip the bar around and reinstall everything. After we put the exhaust back in and rewelded the hangers, we installed the deck lid. The only clearance issue we had was the alternator - had to "trim" some of the decklid to get the clearance we needed. Also found the source of the squeak - it was the right side dust shiled rubbing on the rotor - a little tweak and all is good.

Talked to WCF this afternoon and found out that they were just now - today - building the shifter cable brackets! Would have been nice to know they were out of stock 8 days ago when I ordered it over the phone. I could have fabbed something by now! The AC hose will be done tomorrow so I am pretty confident that the car will be done by Friday. Just in time to start the next project!

More later!

Pat
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Report this Post09-01-2010 12:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Carver1Click Here to Email Carver1Send a Private Message to Carver1Direct Link to This Post
Speaking of "next project"...I'll have to get with you in the next day or two. I've got something cooking.
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Report this Post09-01-2010 01:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FrizlefrakClick Here to Email FrizlefrakSend a Private Message to FrizlefrakDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Carver1:

Speaking of "next project"...I'll have to get with you in the next day or two. I've got something cooking.


Uh oh......
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Report this Post09-01-2010 10:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Frizlefrak:


Uh oh......


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Report this Post09-01-2010 11:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Carver1Click Here to Email Carver1Send a Private Message to Carver1Direct Link to This Post
What? It's harmless, I promise!
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Report this Post09-01-2010 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Carver1:

What? It's harmless, I promise!


One of the greatest quotes from all of Mexico comes to mind.

Si Chuy!

Literal english transalation for those that are not bi lingual: Yeah right.....
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Report this Post09-01-2010 05:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Carver1:

What? It's harmless, I promise!


Harmless? Just another Fiero Project! Like I already have 5 of those in my yard! I got to get some pics of all 5 together. We have just about all the bases covered in these 5 cars.

A stock 2.8 Formula
A 86 SE Chopped 3.4
A 88 GT 3800 SC
A 88 rebodied XTC 4.9
A 86 Bumper Pad SBC

Just missing a:

Indy
Mera
and something with a N*

Pat
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Carver1
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Report this Post09-01-2010 07:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Carver1Click Here to Email Carver1Send a Private Message to Carver1Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by katatak:


Harmless? Just another Fiero Project! Like I already have 5 of those in my yard! I got to get some pics of all 5 together. We have just about all the bases covered in these 5 cars.

A stock 2.8 Formula
A 86 SE Chopped 3.4
A 88 GT 3800 SC
A 88 rebodied XTC 4.9
A 86 Bumper Pad SBC

Just missing a:

Indy
Mera
and something with a N*

Pat


One of those three is soon to be handled.....
Don't forget the 88 4.9 GT up here! and the soon to be fastback trailer.
I'm gonna start shopping in El Paso, so I can just bring them straight to your house.
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Rick 88
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Report this Post09-02-2010 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Carver1:


One of those three is soon to be handled.....
Don't forget the 88 4.9 GT up here! and the soon to be fastback trailer.
I'm gonna start shopping in El Paso, so I can just bring them straight to your house.


Which one could it be?
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Carver1
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Report this Post09-02-2010 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Carver1Click Here to Email Carver1Send a Private Message to Carver1Direct Link to This Post
I'm gonna do a Mera rebodied Indy with a supercharged N*. That should cover the bases.

You guys done playing with that 3800 yet? We need some more video!
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