quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Looking good....Should really look into getting a good set of used aftermarker fuel rails for the setup... Will really clean it up and look better than it already does..You can just get the rails themself from Summit for pretty cheap. Or you can get fuel rail stock cheap off Ebay and drill your injector holes and tap the needed Ends....You going low mount or keeping it up high?

Thanks Stephen. I think Jeff is looking into doing the intercooler setup after we get it installed and running. He will have to do the fuel rails for sure then. I will look into the Summit rails though - maybe the time to do it is now! The alternator will be stock mounted. Going to look into building a power steering delete pulley this week. Do you have a part number for the SC belt that will fit the GXP tensioner with the 3.4 pulley?

Got a few things done today. Just little stuff - putting it back together after cleaning and painting.

Alternator/heater bracket installed:


Alternator cleaned up and installed:


Got the V6 Fiero fill neck cut and rewelded only to discover that it still interefered with the BBV. So it's bye bye BBV! Just need to figure out how to hold the butterfly closed. I will fab up a bracket to hold it closed. Also built the "plugs" for the heater lines on the alt bracket and fabbed up the EGR plugs for the manifold and the exhaust manifold. Just a few more little things to finish up and as soon as we get the harness, it will be swap time.





More tomorrow!

Pat

IOP2

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 07-17-2010).]

For the SC belt just get one from the parts store for the 99 Grand Prix GTP. It will fit with the 3.4 pulley and tensioner setup you are using. For the BBV flapper just flip it to the correct postion and use a bolt with a jam nut to hold it in place. There is no need for a PS delete pulley as you can route the belt correctly without using a delete pulley. Do a search to find a picture of the routing and belt part number. If you cant find it then I have it somewhere and maybe even posted in one of my build Threads. Ditch th stock rails now and go with a set from summit...will look so much better.....


Edit to add link..Here is the link to the belt setup I mentioned above without using a PS delete pulley..Used this on 3 swaps and it works welll....Have found that the belt size on brand can vary a hair but they all work. Some just give a little more room between where the belt comes close to one another....


//www.fiero.nl/forum/A...041015-2-050342.html

[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 07-18-2010).]

After some "Blue Moons" (my favorite beer) I was fiddling around with Jeffs 3800. When I fabbed up the T Stat housing, I forgot to set it with the BBV installed. After I had the T Stat all welded up and painted, Jeff went to install it and found that the BBV would not fit! Today, I was going to fab up a bracket to hold the BBV butterfly closed and got to fooling around with the BBV. I managed to get the BBV back on and all the vac lines hooked up. I had to "flip" the vac valve with the connector 180* but I think it will work in any position. If Jeff still want's it tremoved, we can take it off and toss it in the box of not needed parts.

I alos got the GTP idler and tensioner installed and the coil pack mounted. It's amazing what you can get done when you are just goofing off. No stress, a couple of cold beers, a swap cooler and the radio cranked up! I also got some of the junk cleaned out of the garage and foud some "missing" tools.

all the pulleys in place:


Not sure if we will leave the coil pack here or not:


BBV installed:


Vac lines in place:


Now to figure out all the belts - should be easy with Poe's help!

More later!

Pat

quote Originally posted by katatak: Not sure if we will leave the coil pack here or not: Pat

Coil packs might clear the hindge with how low the motor sits but I doudt it....Move them over to where the battery sits and move the battery up front...This makes the swap cleaner being you can use longer cut to length wires and hide them by running them low.....

That was my worry - hinge clearance! Most likely will go where the Batt is. Thanks for your help Stephen!

Pat

Little bit of work done this afternoon:

Fabbed up some "plugs" for the heater hose couplers in the alternator bracket - a littl welding, some grinding and a splash of paint - turned out pretty well.




More later!

Pat

quote Originally posted by katatak: Little bit of work done this afternoon: Fabbed up some "plugs" for the heater hose couplers in the alternator bracket - a littl welding, some grinding and a splash of paint - turned out pretty well. More later! Pat

You are doing things the hard way...J/K.....Those holes could have been tapped with NTP sizes and plugs installed...The holes are the correct sizes to be tapped for I think 1/2 and 3/4 NTP. But either way works but for future reference to anyone reading this Thread and looking for another option.


I saw a set of ZZP rails on CGP the other day for $230 shipped.....Would look real good on that motor....

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: You are doing things the hard way...J/K.....Those holes could have been tapped with NTP sizes and plugs installed...The holes are the correct sizes to be tapped for I think 1/2 and 3/4 NTP. But either way works but for future reference to anyone reading this Thread and looking for another option. I saw a set of ZZP rails on CGP the other day for $230 shipped.....Would look real good on that motor....

Thanks Stephen!

I was going to do the thread and plug thing but I do not have taps that size and honestly was too lazy to go get them so I made what I had work. Sometimes I do things the hard way beacuase that's whats laying around the grarage! It's not a "being cheap" thing - purely lazy!

I'll pass the info on the fuel rails along to Jeff - he has been talking about doing the intercooler before we stuff it in the car so he will have to have them anyway. It's only money right? Seen any of those used intercoolers lately? If we are going to do it, now's the time!

Pat

quote Originally posted by katatak: Thanks Stephen! I was going to do the thread and plug thing but I do not have taps that size and honestly was too lazy to go get them so I made what I had work. Sometimes I do things the hard way beacuase that's whats laying around the grarage! It's not a "being cheap" thing - purely lazy! I'll pass the info on the fuel rails along to Jeff - he has been talking about doing the intercooler before we stuff it in the car so he will have to have them anyway. It's only money right? Seen any of those used intercoolers lately? If we are going to do it, now's the time! Pat

I can fully relate to the LAZY thing as I am that 90% of the time I am off work....I do the same thing with working with what I got laying around as most the time when I work in the shop it is midnight or later. Will keep an eye out for a good full size IC and pass it on if I find one for cheap.......I agree it is best to do it now instead of waiting till later once the motor is in the car........

This swap looks terrific. You guys are making me begin to think that I might be able to pull off a swap myself. Keep up the good work.

Just a bump with a good deal.....no pressure just saying.....
http://www.clubgp.com/newfo...&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Just a bump with a good deal.....no pressure just saying..... http://www.clubgp.com/newfo...&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

Those look really nice!

quote Originally posted by TommyT913: This swap looks terrific. You guys are making me begin to think that I might be able to pull off a swap myself. Keep up the good work.

Thanks. Go for that swap - it's not as tough as it looks and there are lots of great folks on here that will help when you hit a rough spot. Good luck.

Pat

Had big plans today but they soon fizzled out and we gave up around 9:30 PM. The plan was to get Jeff's GT over here and drop the 4.9 out of it and then test fit the 3800 for clearance. We had good intentions but failed the goal. We did get a lot done though - just took too many "union" breaks and we had this "apprentice" working with us that was hard to keep motivated.

Let the swap begin


What should I do now?


I guess I'll take a nap!


Done for the night.


The 4.9 is pretty much ready to come out - just got to remove the wiring harness from the ECM, disconnect the fuel lines and a few wires. Will have it out in the AM and the 3800 installed so we can check clearnace.

More tomorrow!

Pat

quote Originally posted by katatak: Let the swap begin

Man that 3800 is going to look so much better in that car then the 4.9..It will look 100% better and cleaner than before and will even move faster....Is the 4.9 going to Carver as he said he had plans for a V-8 in the 88 GT he picked up.....

Well we got a lot of work done today! Dropped the 4.9 out this morning and got the 3800 in before lunch. Was able to get the drivers side suspension all back together using the stock Fiero Auto - drivers side axle and it fits perfect. Just need to do some more research and the some yard hunting to build the passenger side (I'll post some questions I have in the Tech section a little later). We had almost all the El Paso Fiero bunch here today and had a great time. Even Rick88 managed to get away from work and spent most the day (he is a slave driver). He would not let us take any breaks - good thing he was here - we would have not got near as complete as we did. I'm soaking in a tub of epsom salt now healing the "whip" marks on my back.......

4.9 Out!


4.9 up on the stand - ready for someone to come pick it up and take it home!



3800 In!




Driver side suspension / axle done!


Had a little fun today - we got in a hurry to stuff the 3800 in and forgot to install the sway bar. We tried to "fish" it in but just could not get it to go so we pulled the rear cradle bolts and swung it dowe, installed the sway bar and put it back together only find that we had the sway bar in backwards. So we did it all over again. Practice makes perfect...... Can't believe how much better looking the 3800 is versus the 4.9. This motor truly belongs in the Fiero. I know for sure what I will be putting in the Formula next Spring.

Stephen,

You were right - had to move the coil pack - it was a no go due to the hood hinge. I still may be able to convince Jeff to relocate the battery and mount it there. We'll figure it out this week. Waiting to hear from Phil about the 4.9 - I am pretty sure he is going to take it home. I am a little confuesd on the Passenger side axle. The tripot / tulip we have is from the 03 Bonny. I believe it has the "square" style rollers. Do you know if the 02 and back 65HD tripot cups will fit the 03 65HD? I thought I read somewhere that they changed the tripot style in 03 and these will not work to build the passenger side axle? I know I need the Fiero manual outer but can't figure out which center piece / axle that I need. Is it the Transposrt axle? Or do I need the Corsica/Baretta axle. What about the Cavi axles? Any help is greatly aprreciated. Thanks in advance.

Pat

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 07-31-2010).]

You guys are IBFO members. The union contract states that you get breaks. You tell Rick that you won't tolerate rogue management, and that you are entitled to your breaks!!!

Had a blast today. Can't wait to fire it up. Of course, that means more swaps coming......

quote Originally posted by katatak: Stephen, You were right - had to move the coil pack - it was a no go due to the hood hinge. I still may be able to convince Jeff to relocate the battery and mount it there. We'll figure it out this week. Waiting to hear from Phil about the 4.9 - I am pretty sure he is going to take it home. I am a little confuesd on the Passenger side axle. The tripot / tulip we have is from the 03 Bonny. I believe it has the "square" style rollers. Do you know if the 02 and back 65HD tripot cups will fit the 03 65HD? I thought I read somewhere that they changed the tripot style in 03 and these will not work to build the passenger side axle? I know I need the Fiero manual outer but can't figure out which center piece / axle that I need. Is it the Transposrt axle? Or do I need the Corsica/Baretta axle. What about the Cavi axles? Any help is greatly aprreciated. Thanks in advance. Pat

Really unsure about the 03 tulip being different being I have never use an 03 axle. I know that some are different along with the bearing inside and the length of the inner tuplip. I have always used GTP axles to build the Pass side axle so I knew it was right all the time. Do you have both Buick axles that came with the donor motor? If so then swap the DRV side inner tulip to the Pass axle and see if it is a direct fit. If it is not because of the bearings then swap the bearing out also if possible. I has to do this with the axle I built for my car because one of the axles where from a Buick. It has been 5 years since I did this but I am sure that is what I did.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Really unsure about the 03 tulip being different being I have never use an 03 axle. I know that some are different along with the bearing inside and the length of the inner tuplip. I have always used GTP axles to build the Pass side axle so I knew it was right all the time. Do you have both Buick axles that came with the donor motor? If so then swap the DRV side inner tulip to the Pass axle and see if it is a direct fit. If it is not because of the bearings then swap the bearing out also if possible. I has to do this with the axle I built for my car because one of the axles where from a Buick. It has been 5 years since I did this but I am sure that is what I did.

Thanks Stephen for the quick reply. We did not get the axles with the motor/trans - only the tulips/cups. We will go back to the yard on Monday and see if we can get the axles and go from there. I think I have it figured out - use the donor (SSEI) driver side axle with the rollers slid into the donor (SSEI) passenger side tulip/cup and then swap the cage/balls and spider from the donor (SSEI) axle to the Fiero manual outer so that the donor axle will spline into the outer? I hope I can get that donor driver side axle.... I am pretty sure thay have another SSEI Bonny in there - I should be albe to get both axles from it and I have the Fiero Manual outer.

Pat

quote Originally posted by katatak: Thanks Stephen for the quick reply. We did not get the axles with the motor/trans - only the tulips/cups. We will go back to the yard on Monday and see if we can get the axles and go from there. I think I have it figured out - use the donor (SSEI) driver side axle with the rollers slid into the donor (SSEI) passenger side tulip/cup and then swap the cage/balls and spider from the donor (SSEI) axle to the Fiero manual outer so that the donor axle will spline into the outer? I hope I can get that donor driver side axle.... I am pretty sure thay have another SSEI Bonny in there - I should be albe to get both axles from it and I have the Fiero Manual outer. Pat

That sounds correct....The only issue your might have is if the inner tri bearings for the tulips are differant on the donor axles on each side. I only say this cause the axle I built for my car along time back was this way. But out of the 6 or so axles I have built this has been the only one that was that way...

Did some axle work today. Thought I was on the right track but my brain timed out on me. I picked up a couple 04 Cavi Auto axles at he Mega Pull today. The axles and the outer CV's measure up the same as the Fiero Manual axles so I figure if I can;t use them for this swap, I will be able to use some of the parts for the next swap/project. Anyway, I learned a few things today.

I was hoping that I could just pull the Cavi Tulip off the axle and then slide the Cavi axle with the spider/roller into the 65 HD tulip for the Bonny. Nope - the 03 65HD tulip takes a larger roller (both the Cavi and the 03 Bonny are the square type).

So I ran over to the yard where we bought the motor/trans in the hope that I could find the axles from the donor car. The cradle, suspension and axles were laying in the same place where it was dismantled over a month ago - go figure! Anyway, the spider/rollers were still attached to the axles so I slipped one of. I knew right away that the donor car axle shaft was a bigger diameter but I snagged the spider assembly anyway. The Cavi axle is 1.062 and the 03 Bonny is 1.095. Its a no go this way too.

So now I think that I just need to get after it and find set of Grand Prix GTP or Regal GS axles and stick with what Poe uses. Anyone know what the axle diameter of the GTP/GS axle is? Maybe that's why Poe syas that we need to change the cage, balls and spider in the manual Fiero outer? Maybe the GTP/GS axles are the same diameter as the 03 Bonny?

All was not lost though. I did put the suspension back together and mocked up the axle to see if it was going to be long enough - looks like the Cavi axle is the correct length - just don't know if I can use it for this swap.

Cavi axles and various other axle parts:


Cavi outer and axle on the bottom, Cavi spider/rollers to the right and the 03 Bonny 65HD tulip at the top:


03 Bonny Spider/rollers on the left, Cavi on the right:


Checking the "fit":


More to later

Pat

.

I like the GTP rollers and tulip, and they will slide onto the cavi needle bearings.

quote Originally posted by Frizlefrak: You guys are IBFO members. The union contract states that you get breaks. You tell Rick that you won't tolerate rogue management, and that you are entitled to your breaks!!! Had a blast today. Can't wait to fire it up. Of course, that means more swaps coming......

Hey, We have a "swap schedule" to keep. No time for loligagers. If it weren't for my "slave driving" we would not be this far along. Besides, I want to go for a ride! Then we can have lot of Union Cervezas!!

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I like the GTP rollers and tulip, and they will slide onto the cavi needle bearings.

Just for kicks I swapped the Bonny rller onto the Cavi spider - it's too loose. The late model Bonny spiders/rollers are either bigger than the ealier GTP's or I have the wrong Cavi axle? Going to a specialist tomorrow afternoon - see what I can dig up in his mountains of CV axle parts. Maybe I can trade him some of my parts for the ones I need. I'll figure it out right after I quit banging my head against the wall.

Pat

Any updates Pat? Sorry I couldn't join you guys today....

Looks like I'll be heading down there Saturday afternoon. Hopefully I can meet most of you Texn's. Or is it Taxn's?

------------------
86 SE ChopTop 4 Speed 3.4 "The Short Bus"

"For Sale"

88 GT "The Stray" Auto 2.8 (for now...)
07 Solstice GXP 2.0L turbo
08 GMC Sierra 3500 Duramax Dually.
05 Tahoe on 20's (Kid hauler)

quote Originally posted by Frizlefrak: Any updates Pat? Sorry I couldn't join you guys today....

Why yes I do have updates! Just getting in late. Lots of fun was had today. Spent 2 plus hours getting baked out in the junkyard hunting for GTP axles. Got them and headed home for some fun with CV's. After a few different configurations, we ended up doing exaclty what MstangsBware suggested we do way back in the begining and all along the way. Used a DS 98 GTP axle, a PS 98 GTP axle and a Fiero Manual outer CV to build a perfect length passenger side axle.

We stripped the DS GTP axle of the inner and outer CV's. Then we reomved the PS GTP inner Tulip, Tripod and Rollers from the PS GTP axle. Then we removed the Fiero Manual outer CV (actually is a 04 Cavi outer - turns out they are the same as the Ferio Manual). Slipped the bare DS GTP axle into the PS GTP Tulip/Tripod assembly. Then removed the cage, ball bearings and spider from the Fiero/Cavi outer CV. Also removed the cage, ball bearings and spider from the GTP outer CV. Then swapped the GTP cage, ball bearings and spider into the Fiero/Cavi outer. The only difference is the diameter of the axles - need the larger spider from the GTP outer so that the GTP axle will spline into the Fiero/Cavi outer. Confused yet? My head hurts thinking about it. Anyway when it's all together, and with the axle fully compressed into the inner Tulip, there is still about an inch of axle clearance to the bottom of the Tulip. At ride height, the tripod/rollers ride in the middle of the Tulip. Fits perfect. We just need to pick up a set of new boots, grease and clamps and we will have that major hurdle complete.

The GTP axles


The axle:


In the car:


Some leftover pieces and parts:


More later!

Pat

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 08-07-2010).]

quote Originally posted by katatak: I feel some new projects coming on!

Shhhhh! They make straight jackets for people like us.

Update:

It was a busy - busy day today Fiero wise. Not much to report on Jeffs swap though. We did take the axle we built yestarday to a CV axle place to day to get them loaded with grease and boots installed. The guy did a great - quick job and charged Jeff 40.00. I don;t think we could have bough 2 boot kits for 40 bucks and I did not have mess with that nasty grease. Got the axle installed this afternoon and most of the suspension back together. We will finsih it up in the AM and then drop the tank for a new pump.

More later!

Pat

Got some more done today. Dropped the gas tank and changed out the pump. Alos worked the gauge sender a bit to get the gauge to work right. The coil had a lot of varnish on it. I cleaned it up good and got 1.2 ohms at full and 90.7 empty (or vice a versa) Anyway, it works correctly. Also installed a new fuel filter and did some measuring and mock up for the AC hoses.





More next week.

Pat

quote Originally posted by katatak: Got some more done today. Dropped the gas tank and changed out the pump. Alos worked the gauge sender a bit to get the gauge to work right. The coil had a lot of varnish on it. I cleaned it up good and got 1.2 ohms at full and 90.7 empty (or vice a versa) Anyway, it works correctly. Also installed a new fuel filter and did some measuring and mock up for the AC hoses. Pat

Go ahead with the tank out and do the fuel pump rewire for the car......Use the method Darth has and it is pretty simple. With the tank out I would run the 12 gauge wire all the way to the tank though......

Updates please.......

Not much for today - spent most the day working on Jan's 3.4 swap. We did get the right side suspnesion all bolted in and tightened up. Then slid under the car to remove one of the trans lines at the trans - it got smashed when the yard pulled it. Of course it takes a "special" tool to remove the line but we were able to "trick" it and get the line out. Searched a few part stores with no luck. Jeff will go to Hose & Tube next week and get one made.

Going to put the wheels back on and set it on the ground in the AM. We need to roll it out in the driveway so we can clean all the battery acid off the battery mount. Found that his battery is leaking badly. Going to mount the coil pack where the battery is and relocate the battery to the trunk. Got a few little things to finish up - harness should be here next week. With any luck, we will fire it up next Saturday! Then we will have to finish the exhaust. Got to get it out of the garage so we can start on the Bus!

More later.

Pat

Good that it's a roller again. Once the harness is here, and other bits are ready, it shouldn't take long to finish. I have a long weekend coming up. Beware the "Slave Driver" returneth!

Then we can start on the "Busectomy" or "Mr Monte". I am game on anything.

Cmon Pat! Don't make me drive down to help with the Bus.......in my brand spankin used 4.9L 88GT!

C'mon down Phil! Bring that Stealth Stray with you - I want a ride in the 4.9 GT! Jeff and I took the XTC to the parts store today to pick up brake pads for the Wife's Durango - got 70K miles out of the originals! They were not gone but it was time to replace them.

Got the wheel back on Jeff's car today, set her on the ground and rolled her out into the driveway - glad to report no bad noises in the rear suspension / axles - we must have got it right. We spent a couple hours cleaning the battery tray - it was pretty corroded but we did get it all cleaned up. There was a big clump of insulation under the battery tray and it was soaked with battery acid. got it all cleaned out and when it's dry, we will coat it with POR 15.

We eyballed the coil pack for awhile. Not really sure we like setting it where the battery goes - I just don;t like the idea of all those wires being so close to the spinning belts! I think we found a suitable location that will not require any lengthening of the ignition / plug wires. If the harness shows up Friday, we will have to figure it out pretty quick. We plan to fire this beast on Saturday.

Headed for Omaha all week - yipee skipee! No Fiero fun for the next 4 days!

More later!

Pat

Harness came in the mail today - thanks Fieroflyer! Got is mostly installed this evening. Should be driving it tomorrow afternoon!

EEK!



Looking better now!




Am I missing a plug here?


And where does this one go?


Hope to have some "first start" video tomorrow night!

Pat

wish i could help ya out on your missing plug issue.. but this is all very insightful! i need to get my cradle cleaned up and up on a cradle bench. but like ive seen you say.. its just too darn hot. especially in the garage.