not searching or searching hard enough for a very very common question on a more common than a "my fuel gauge doesnt read right" issue on the fiero makes you look like a total dumbass. and thus will probably yield you in getting less help from us common PFF folk.
just a friendly reminder to search first... its like wrap it before you tap it.
I agree and disagree. A basic search is good to do on common subjects.
However, he're are a few advantages to reposting questions that may have been asked one too many times - New information. Sometimes the old threads are, well, old. - Different wording or phrasing. People think differently... - BS is good! Sometimes people just like to talk. - No time to search (been there, done that). - Fubar'd search engine. Every one is slightly different... some suck and some don't.
Like everyone else who frequents a forum it can get old reading the same questions over and over. That's what topics are for (I can skip what I don't wish to read). However, I'd rather be part of a forum where someone doesn't feel afraid to ask the question. I've dealt with that on a diesel forum... needless to say I stopped visiting it.
Now, if someone posts the same question over and over the gloves come off.
Cheers! Brad
[This message has been edited by bakantor (edited 05-15-2010).]
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01:02 AM
Hockaday Member
Posts: 2165 From: Clifton Park, New York, The States. Registered: Sep 2009
search is pretty much a mute point, search for something you normally get 0-3 results or a billion pages. untill there is a proper sorting system or a wiki ( i gave up decided to focus on diff things but may restart that project soon with community help ) sure you should always attempt a search first but people need to realise seraching doesn't do alot of help half the time. my 2 cents
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01:48 AM
IMSA GT Member
Posts: 10268 From: California Registered: Aug 2007
Lets put it this way.....90% of the new members that use search like to use the annoying cell phone text because they are too lazy to spell complete words or plain and simple, just can't spell....and it shows in their threads they post. The search works perfectly if you know what to type and be exact. If you misspell a word, you will get no results.
The search works if you're willing to carefully look through 20 pages of results to sift through the crap, which may take 1/2 an hour. (well it takes that long for me)
It also only works if you're searching for a topic which has been discussed.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 05-15-2010).]
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02:20 AM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
However, he're are a few advantages to reposting questions that may have been asked one too many times - New information. Sometimes the old threads are, well, old.
I agree 100%. Without new threads from time to time, the tech section becomes nothing but a stale reference library of old information. Its just like that commercial from a couple years ago - "Let's search for, say, fax machines. Oh look, here's an article from 1975!!!".
I used to be on another forum where new posts were promptly locked if it was a topic which had already been discussed, and they'd also get locked if someone attempted to bump an old topic. It was IMPOSSIBLE to share any new information. The forum eventually died.
I've also seen forums where members race each other to the keyboard to scream "Do a search!!!" every time they see a familiar question. Sorry, but no one gets bonus points for shouting "do a search". If you don't want to help (or don't know the answer to the question), don't bother replying.
Let us not forget that there are also poorly worded thread topic and some threads derail into chaos. This adds to search confusion or it finds a string of words in your search criteria in a completely unrelated thread about something completely unrelated. The search works if what you are looking for is properly worded, and the search parameters do not pick up derailed threads.
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09:12 AM
Brocephus Member
Posts: 617 From: Franklin, NY, USA Registered: Mar 2006
I don't always, but when I have the time, prefer to search for a particular topic before making a new thread about it. But regardless of what anyone says, the PFF search engine is a bit lacking. I know this based on the fact that it once took me 15 minutes to find my own damn fuel-pump replacement how-to thread. Apparently, I wasn't using the correct verbage.
Right now, do a search for "fuel pump replacement how to". My "fuel pump replacement how to" thread won't even come up as a possible result.
BUT......
Put a hyphen between the "how" and "to" and my fuel pump replacement how-to thread will be the ONLY result.
When a noob puts up a question asking why his Duke will run but won't make any power or, his V-6 wouldn't start today after coming out of the grocery store, have a little compassion and acknowledge the fact that his day already sucks because his treasured little Fiero isn't doing what it should. We all know his Duke probably needs a fuel pump or his V-6 needs a control module so why not just give him the info he's looking for? Is it really that hard? Does it really require more than a few seconds and keystrokes to completely make somebody's day? To be completely honest, I'm just happy to see new members posting. The "old-school" crew here isn't going to live forever and someone's going to have to fill their shoes.
Quit being so cantankerous.
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09:12 AM
SMTHGT Member
Posts: 1075 From: Seagoville , Tx. Registered: Mar 2010
Let us not forget that there are also poorly worded thread topic and some threads derail into chaos. This adds to search confusion or it finds a string of words in your search criteria in a completely unrelated thread about something completely unrelated. The search works if what you are looking for is properly worded, and the search parameters do not pick up derailed threads.
That is one of the most annoying things that people do on here. They post a thread titled "What if I...." or "Hows this work?" and that is the ONLY thing posted. You are forced to LOOK into the thread to see what the hell they want rather than KNOW what the thread is about just by looking at the title. Half the time, its some BS question and those threads are the perfect example of why the search function fails for some topics. You search for the great thread on the guy with $700 Koni shocks and coilovers but you can't find it because you didn't type in "Look what I did today" in the search bar.
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11:12 AM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
That is one of the most annoying things that people do on here. They post a thread titled "What if I...." or "Hows this work?" and that is the ONLY thing posted. You are forced to LOOK into the thread to see what the hell they want rather than KNOW what the thread is about just by looking at the title. Half the time, its some BS question and those threads are the perfect example of why the search function fails for some topics. You search for the great thread on the guy with $700 Koni shocks and coilovers but you can't find it because you didn't type in "Look what I did today" in the search bar.
I completely agree. I do use the search, because I know the info is out there...best I can do is over describe in my title. I try to always include key words, 4.9, swap, and what I'm starting with -- 88 base coupe. Hopefully this will get the responses I need, and help those that may follow, just another noob here....
Originally posted by IMSA GT: That is one of the most annoying things that people do on here. They post a thread titled "What if I...." or "Hows this work?" and that is the ONLY thing posted. You are forced to LOOK into the thread to see what the hell they want rather than KNOW what the thread is about just by looking at the title. Half the time, its some BS question and those threads are the perfect example of why the search function fails for some topics. You search for the great thread on the guy with $700 Koni shocks and coilovers but you can't find it because you didn't type in "Look what I did today" in the search bar.
That's why searching by "Subject/Username" is useless, and you need to search using "Entire Thread".
Of course, searching this way always brings up the same first two pages of results, such as:
What's Up at Archie's What Did You Do To Your Fiero...TODAY ? LS4 V8 DoD 4T65-E TAPShift swap underway (pics inside) newest project
Also, you need to seach "Entire Forum + Archives"...
I'm glad there seems to be a general concensus! Ultimately, common sense prevails.
My biggest pet peeve is how poorly the search engines work on these message boards. It really is a crap shoot to find something. Oftentimes I'll use google to search a specific site.
For example, putting "fuel pump how to site:www.fiero.nl" into google would've weeded throught he muck and found the fuel pump "how-to" thread.
And finally, what makes a noob? Someone new to the board? ... new to any board? I'm new to here but have been on bulletin boards since 1990, way back when dial-up bulletin board systems were en vogue (I ran one for 5 years) and academia ruled what would become the internet.
Anyway, everyone have a great day with your Fiero!!!!!
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12:47 PM
PFF
System Bot
Richjk21 Member
Posts: 2228 From: Central Square NY, USA Registered: Feb 2006
I'm usually willing to come to the aid of those with specific questions, but I rarely help those who use bad grammar and/or expletives in the title. However, the search key isn't operated by a human, so as others stated--you need specific key words when performing a search. It also helps if you know the authors name. My first thread in the tech section would be hard to find using the search function, because of the title.
I for one could care less whether or not a search has been done. If a question has been asked by a member new or old if I can I will answer them. If you don't want to answer the same question time and time again then why not read the topic and not open the offending thread to begin with? I see alot of new and old members told to use the search in a very rude manner quite often. So why not just ignore the threads completely if you don't want to do anything other than tell them to search more... search harder.... etc..
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04:59 PM
Pete Matos Member
Posts: 2291 From: Port St. Lucie, Florida Registered: Jan 2010
Speaking as the genuine article NOOB!! I gotta say that I have mixed feelings about this. I am a member of many forums and discussion groups on the internet about varying topics. I am an old hand at many of them... There are times when I see new people get on and ask the types of questions that I know have been gone over and over, However I try to think about when I was the noob on that forum and remember when I did not know anything about the subject at hand. I am quite sure I asked a lot of silly questions but there was always someone on there who took the time to explain the subject to me with enough clarity that I could then use the search to fine tune my questions. When you are a newbie to ANYTHING, it is difficult to ask intelligent questions about any subject and even searching can be daunting because you are not even sure what you are trying to find many times. That may sound real vague but it is often the case and to be honest with you in my past experience I usually base my further participation in that particular forum on the manner in which people on the forum respond to me. I am quite sure that a curt or even rude response with direction to the search engine would quickly turn me off and possibly make me seek another forum. I would take the way you choose to respond to new people on any forum pretty seriously because you never know, that newbie asking that frustrating question for the umpteenth time may turn out to be the very best contributor to the forum ever and may actually become a future friend and car show/ riding/ modding companion...... I do not know many of you and I am sure you have good intentions here but I gotta say that if you are out to give newbs a hard time and get all frustrated about forum interactions perhaps you should look hard at yourself and decide why you are on the forum in the first place. There are always newbies to anything and you can be sure that any help you can give them will not only make you feel better about yourself, but it may just make your hobby,sport, passion even better than it was before.... peace
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05:56 PM
Khw Member
Posts: 11139 From: South Weber, UT. U.S.A. Registered: Jun 2008
not searching or searching hard enough for a very very common question on a more common than a "my fuel gauge doesnt read right" issue on the fiero makes you look like a total dumbass. and thus will probably yield you in getting less help from us common PFF folk.
just a friendly reminder to search first... its like wrap it before you tap it.
I don't know how you consider that "friendly".
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06:05 PM
fierosound Member
Posts: 15145 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
I agree that we were all newbies at one time. If you don`t type the search item in the way it was posted then it won`t get you results. So If I can remember anything about the Question the newbie has I will try to post a link if possible to help them out the same way some people did for me when I was a newbie. If you don`t want to help them out then go on to another thread . And leave room for those that want to help.
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06:38 PM
Philero Member
Posts: 390 From: Medford, OR, USA Registered: Oct 2007
That is one of the most annoying things that people do on here. They post a thread titled "What if I...." or "Hows this work?" and that is the ONLY thing posted. You are forced to LOOK into the thread to see what the hell they want rather than KNOW what the thread is about just by looking at the title. Half the time, its some BS question and those threads are the perfect example of why the search function fails for some topics. You search for the great thread on the guy with $700 Koni shocks and coilovers but you can't find it because you didn't type in "Look what I did today" in the search bar.
ROFL, Like this thread's title? Yet, you responded? I guess this thread was created to deter any new members from the forum to create new threads about ANYTHING... since it might have been covered in a previous thread. Yep, shame on them... go somewhere else... you are not welcome here... because you ANNOY us?!?!
Refer back to pmbrunelle's post referring to Sabooo's post (Phase 4 - Jaded User)
Nobody has required you to look at all posts, but we sure appreciate it when people do, and then try their best to help us out... even when that topic might have been covered previously. And who knows? Something new might pop up that was missed.
This thread topic may have been created to give the "all knowing" and "so PFF experienced professionals" a bit of peace from the constant feeling of having to answer questions that have already been covered in the past, but, as I see it, it will simply drive the new enthusiasts away.
Have a bit of compassion, patience, and understanding. Nobody is perfect, and I would dare say... NOBODY who owns a Fiero is LAZY.
Lastly, I, with my limited knowledge of... well... pretty much anything "in depth", am excited when I can offer advice or knowledge of these repeating posts... even if it is just a link to a previous related topic. That is what this forum is all about... helping to enhance and grow the Fiero community... not bash new owner's out of existence.
P.S. I didn't go back and look, but I think it is the general consensus, that the search engine is... um... lacking. So give a little slack to the "Noobs and Lazy People"
------------------ Phil Always trying to create something new! '88 SE '86 GT '87 GT Extreme body mod and 2.8L Turbo Propane powered (in the garage and getting closer to being completed)
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06:38 PM
PFF
System Bot
fierosound Member
Posts: 15145 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
On a side note (but related) MANY silly questions...
- where's the oil filter? - how do I check the oil? - is my radio fuse burned out? - how much oil does my engine take?
... and dozens like this every week, could be answered if the owner himself LOOKED IT UP in either an Owner's Manual or a Service Manual. THEN they wouldn't have to use Search, get pissed off, and then (I searched but couldn't find it) ask the same silly question that's been asked 100 times before.
Yeah I know. Most here bought an old car which didn't come with an Owner's Manual or they don't have $20 to buy a Haynes manual, but with these available for FREE download, that shouldn't be an excuse any more.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-16-2010).]
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06:41 PM
Philphine Member
Posts: 6136 From: louisville,ky. usa Registered: Feb 2000
way back when my first post on this forum got that responce. i guess because this is also the first forum of any kind i joined (i came to the internet late)... well... i just didn't like it. i won't ever do it unless i know pretty much specificly where it is and can tell you where to search for it.
beyond that, my only advice is some the ogre gave. if you have a car question (or really any section if you're really needing an answer), make it clear in the title so it's easier to search later. and also for people looking at the thread list to decide if they want to open the thread instead of seeing something like "oh no, what do i do?"
i also like to stick the car i'm asking about in the first sentence, like "87 duke auto" or "86gt 4sp". since the first sentence or so comes up in search too, it's helps you decide if the thread is going to help and/or applies to the model you have.
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08:41 PM
vinny Member
Posts: 1690 From: starkville MISSISSIPPI Registered: Mar 2003
I for one could care less whether or not a search has been done. If a question has been asked by a member new or old if I can I will answer them. If you don't want to answer the same question time and time again then why not read the topic and not open the offending thread to begin with? I see alot of new and old members told to use the search in a very rude manner quite often. So why not just ignore the threads completely if you don't want to do anything other than tell them to search more... search harder.... etc..
Amen brother. The forum works fine The search works fine. If you don't want to help someone because of the basic-ness or common-ess of the question then DON'T...................but don't b!tch about it. It makes no one look like a dumbass but makes you look like a smartass.
By-the-way. Where is the oil filter on this 88 duke at? Never owned a duke before.
Vinny
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09:24 PM
thumper_64735 Member
Posts: 704 From: Lebanon, MO, USA Registered: Sep 2006
As for me, I have been on the forum for a while. I have been working on cars in one capacity or another since I started helping my dad out in his shop @ the age of 5. I have alldata, michell, and a few other resources at my disposal. I am a professional mechanic, and have been for some time. I still run into problems that I am unsure of the answer. I look at the resources that I have, try a search and see if it hasn't been answered, and go from there. I have done many swaps on older vehicles, but an engine swap in the fiero is an intirely different creature. I ask questions. Also, if I have a problem with my wife's car, an 85 2M4, and I can't find the answer, I will ask it. That is what this forum is for in my opinion. I have received much help, and I try to return that help when I can. Yes, there are questions that get asked repeatedly. Yes, there are some that could word the heading/subject better. But it needs to be remembered that not everyone has worked on their own car for years. It needs to be remembered that for some, they have never owned a car before, and know nothing about them. A little kindness and compassion will go a long ways. Lately I have seen that some of our newer members are using language that I don't care for, and it needs to be KINDLY let known that we don't use that language here. Also, not everyone knows about the Fiero News downloads. I DIDN'T till a few months ago, reading a reply to a thread that someone had asked for info. I went and downloaded them. Then, when my puter crashed, and I had to re-download them, I couldn't remember where they came from. I posted the question, and I beleive it was bloozberry that answered for me, and I could be seen as one of the older members now on. I think we need to remember that we were all noobs once, and we all asked stupid questions at that time, rather it was on a forum, or an old gearhead that we used to hang out with. I still learn alot of new stuff about these cars nearly every day from new and old members alike. If you don't want to answer a question, then don't, but don't get rude about it. Just leave the thread alone, and someone who feels it is worth their while WILL answer the question, or point the poster in the right direction. Ok, I am done with my speech and will get off the soap box now.
BTW, I am on a computer in my living room, and I can see that I have some miss-spelled words in there. Not everyone has a dictionary in their mind, and not everyone uses a computer. There are some that can only afford their phone, or the only real chance they get to post is from their phone. Just remember that we are all human, and as such, we're not perfect.
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09:24 PM
IMSA GT Member
Posts: 10268 From: California Registered: Aug 2007
So, what you are saying is that anyone who needs or wants to LEARN how to use the search feature, should type in "Lazy" or " Noob"? Wow, you are one intolerant person. I must put you second to the person who actually created this post.
I am sorry to say this, but your opinion on this matter is just NEGATIVE. Why don't you just give a little (or maybe a lot, it depends on how you judge yourself in the eye's of other Fiero owners and their desire to LOVE the Fiero) and just let this VERY LITTLE INCONSISTENCY IN A FORUM (and I underline/bold/italicize the word FORUM) go.
This forum was not made for your convienence. Quit being the guy that has the perfect IMSA Fiero and realize that some people just don't know how YOU want it to be... if you want it your way... go create YOUR forum.... otherwise... leave it to Cliff to say something about how HIS forum is run.
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11:54 PM
May 16th, 2010
bakantor Member
Posts: 39 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: May 2010
So, what you are saying is that anyone who needs or wants to LEARN how to use the search feature, should type in "Lazy" or " Noob"? Wow, you are one intolerant person. I must put you second to the person who actually created this post.
I am sorry to say this, but your opinion on this matter is just NEGATIVE. Why don't you just give a little (or maybe a lot, it depends on how you judge yourself in the eye's of other Fiero owners and their desire to LOVE the Fiero) and just let this VERY LITTLE INCONSISTENCY IN A FORUM (and I underline/bold/italicize the word FORUM) go.
This forum was not made for your convienence. Quit being the guy that has the perfect IMSA Fiero and realize that some people just don't know how YOU want it to be... if you want it your way... go create YOUR forum.... otherwise... leave it to Cliff to say something about how HIS forum is run.
I must have misunderstood what you meant and I see many other people commenting on the topic but you seem to have singled me out. I guess I rubbed you the wrong way years ago in some other thread. Never once do I brag about my car in any thread and how much I have spent on it so you should keep it out of this discussion and stop trying to be the forum hero.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 05-16-2010).]
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12:42 AM
deezil Member
Posts: 779 From: St Louis Mo USA Registered: Mar 2010
Damn Noobies... 
