I'm on my blackberry so I may have missed something, but what I gathered from that link was that the Judge was heavier than the buick, made less power, and (opinion) was the ugliest of the a-bodies...? Of course, looks are up to opinion, but weight and power aren't. As for the guy who wants a nice cushy fiero...most buyers would, so there would have to be different trims. Like a WRX vs STI. You could have the sissy fiero with a normal ecotech, auto, all the bells n whistles, so on, and you could have the hardcore fiero, with a cool name added on, and get rid of all those luxuries, add a turbo, 6 speed, suspension, aero bits, etc. Follow up to the judge maybe... The Jury...or, something meaner maybe. Executioner is probably too offensive for modern Americans. And too long a. Word for many. Lol
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04:19 PM
Mar 17th, 2010
katore8105 Member
Posts: 1519 From: Upstate NY US Registered: Dec 2009
I'd get this instead. With the ridiculous pricing that GM has going on the boring and ho-hum cars the Fiero with any real power would be $65,000.00 Thats' only if GM went in and had all the corvette guys tide up and gagged so they wouldn't whine like big babys because another GM car was faster, better, and designed right with the engine in the back.
As much I would like to see this happen, I wouldn't want a Fiero other then a Pontiac. So unless Pontiac is returned by some other company, it just wouldn't be the same.
I'd get this instead. With the ridiculous pricing that GM has going on the boring and ho-hum cars the Fiero with any real power would be $65,000.00 Thats' only if GM went in and had all the corvette guys tide up and gagged so they wouldn't whine like big babys because another GM car was faster, better, and designed right with the engine in the back.
Very much agreed.
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12:50 AM
SMTHGT Member
Posts: 1075 From: Seagoville , Tx. Registered: Mar 2010
OK..... I am going to say it.... I AM GLAD GM KILLED IT AFTER ONLY FIVE YEARS. You should be also.... Because if they continued to produce our cars, then people would say... "how ugly the first model Fieros were... " Our cars are 'rare' to others, and special to me (us)
------------------ SMTHGT.....
[This message has been edited by SMTHGT (edited 03-19-2010).]
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01:02 AM
TommyRocker Member
Posts: 2808 From: Woodstock, IL Registered: Dec 2009
In the 70s I had a 1960 Austin Healey 3000 with 105 hp I think. I had station wagons loaded with kids and groceries leave me at the light, oblivious to my existence or the fact that I was hitting the red line in every gear in a desperate but futile attempt to keep up. But, I was having fun and they weren’t. I was making beautiful music and looking good and they weren’t. There were times when I was driving 25 mph through neighborhoods and people out in their yards would yell at me to slow down. Maybe it was the roll bar or the side exhaust.
Anyway, it’s about the fun, not the numbers for me. I am not competing with anyone when I drive.
I agree- I had many different cars starting in the 1970's and the ones I enjoyed the most were, by today's standards, underpowered and slow. The most memorable to me was my Triumph TR250, which had performance similar to my 4 cylinder Fiero; it was fast enough to keep up, but would not win any drag races. It would, however, keep me entertained and engaged in the act of driving it. For a modern "Fiero" I would like to see something small, fun, and efficient. A mid-engine 2-seater with a modern 4 cylinder engine, a standard transmission or modern automatic transmission and a minimum of amenities- A/C, power windows, a couple of cupholders, and about 150 horsepower. Maybe electric power steering for all the pansies, but not necessary. I'm too old to care about being able to go over 120 mph anymore- I've done that, and I don't care to have to haul around the extra capacity to do that and never actually use it. I have found that when I drive less powerful cars, my driving style adapts and I can have just as much fun, just different than the way I do in a more powerful car. I would like to specialize in the 60 to 80 mph range, I don't care so much about the 90-120 mph range- that's for someone else, in a different car, maybe in a different era. I'm more interested in a balance of fun driving and economy. There is still room for V-8 powered Fiero enthusiasts, but my engine conversion (if I ever go that route) will be to a modern 4-cylinder motor- I would be looking to maintain my current level of driving fun and performance, but to increase fuel economy and reliability. In my opinion, a modern "Fiero" would be competing with the MR2, the S2000, the Miata, but mostly the Boxster or the Elise. I don't know much about the Solstice (I think it's really good looking). A modern "Fiero" might be a lighter and more economical Solstice.
[This message has been edited by ekinodum (edited 03-19-2010).]
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02:22 AM
SMTHGT Member
Posts: 1075 From: Seagoville , Tx. Registered: Mar 2010
The Fiero concept car looks too dated. Looks too much like a Camaro or a ford Probe. I love the old-school lines of the Solstice. Bring it back please.
I'd get this instead. With the ridiculous pricing that GM has going on the boring and ho-hum cars the Fiero with any real power would be $65,000.00 Thats' only if GM went in and had all the corvette guys tide up and gagged so they wouldn't whine like big babys because another GM car was faster, better, and designed right with the engine in the back.
I didn't even think of that! If it was around $14k in 1984, when they were doing good, I can only imagine a decent Fiero would be a pretty penny. I also would like a Lotus. My dream car is an Exige... Or maybe a souped up Elise.
Lets say that GM popped out a 2012 Fiero as there are so many cars being re continued lately anyway. ...so I would imagine it would be a lot lighter...
Lighter, if it follows these others it will be 4000 lbs.
------------------ RickN White 88GT 5spd (<10K miles) White 85GT (SC3800 Series II w/ AOD) White 99 F250SD 7.3PSD 6spd 1956 Ford 860 Tractor w/ Freeman Loader 20Ft H&H Tilt Bed Trailer
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08:31 PM
May 1st, 2010
07Hoffmannd Member
Posts: 404 From: St. Louis, Mo. U.S.A Registered: Apr 2008
i say it should come with a 2.4 turbo like the neon SRT, or the 2.0 turbo in the solstice. and for the bigger engine, the 3800 N/A and supercharged option.
i dont know why people say just give me the engine without the "luxuries". like power windows and locks. those are nice things to have. and on any car coming out now, getting a car with out those things would not even be an option. i don't know why luxury is associated with being a sissy. cause if thats the case, then get rid of your tv and go live in the woods. or become Amish. then your a real man, right? NO. oh yeah, and get rid of your computer (that your on this thread with), and get rid of your car. that's right. your car. cause thats a luxury too. so go ride the bus and ill keep my A/C and power locks.
however, having a stick and pedal-clutch transmission would be nice. although again, on any car today i dont think thats even an option.
and someone mentioned make it boring so the cops wouldn't pull you over. really? you own a fiero, not exactly blend-in type of car. and besides, a boring looking car with performance is what buicks are for.
P.S. not to get anyone in a tither, but i dont like the way the solstice looks. the engine is nice but its too round for me. like a bubble. thats why i drive things like fieros. so it wont get my vote.
[This message has been edited by 07Hoffmannd (edited 05-01-2010).]
Originally posted by 07Hoffmannd: i dont know why people say just give me the engine without the "luxuries". like power windows and locks. those are nice things to have. and on any car coming out now, getting a car with out those things would not even be an option. i don't know why luxury is associated with being a sissy. cause if thats the case, then get rid of your tv and go live in the woods. or become Amish. then your a real man, right? NO. oh yeah, and get rid of your computer (that your on this thread with), and get rid of your car. that's right. your car. cause thats a luxury too. so go ride the bus and ill keep my A/C and power locks.
I consider those "luxuries" to be a negative. Some of us want a sports car. We want less weight - less weight is good for performance in every way. We don't want the A/C compressor cluttering the engine bay. In fact, I deleted A/C from my Fiero.
You may not agree, but surely you might be able to understand our point of view.
Different people like cars for different reasons.
I don't drive a Fiero for its styling. I drive it because it's mid-engine, and has few extra luxuries. My previous car was actually kind of ugly, but I still chose it because of its performance.
I don't like new cars BECAUSE of all the weight-adding crap manufacturers add to them. Manual transmissions are still available on new cars, depending on which segment of the auto market you're looking at, but you're right, their availability will eventually end.
The sad reality is that as time goes on, driving becomes less and less of a pleasure, and auto modification becomes more and more difficult for us diehard enthusiast types.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 05-01-2010).]
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03:45 PM
Rick 88 Member
Posts: 3914 From: El Paso, TX. Registered: Aug 2001
I'd have to say use the 3.6 DI. It has a very exotic sound and would fit the character of a mid-engine sports car very well. If you use a V8, figure out how to put 180° headers on it, so it sounds like this....
Who sells these headers for the C5? A custom set of 180's for a V8 Fiero would give it the exotic sound a Fiero should have.
Being more realistic, the 3.6 DI Camaro motor makes the right sounds for a Fiero. It sounds even better with the GM Performance Parts cat back system offered for the Camaro.
[This message has been edited by Rick 88 (edited 05-01-2010).]
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04:04 PM
LZeppelin513 Member
Posts: 761 From: Lake Stevens, Washington Registered: Aug 2003
I wish the Opel Speedster was offered in the states. That is just about as close to a modern Fiero I've seen. It looks much better than the Elise. Plus it comes with a getrag 5 speed and an ecotec. Curb weight= 2000 lbs according to Wikipedia. Perfect. It basically is the modern Fiero. Ideally (to me) it would have an all aluminum short stroke ohv v8
The Fiero should never be ressurected! I love them the way they are, and lets face it, the odds are 100-1 that they would actually IMPROVE on the Fiero! It would be heavier, bulkier, and hell, they would probably make a sedan out of it! Besides, CONSTANTLY I take crap from dudes who think that because they have more money than me, my Fiero is below their car. The LAST thing I would want to see is some stuck up loser thinking his new expensive Fiero is better than mine because it cost more!!! Sorry, just a little frustrated.
------------------ "He took my stapler. I could burn this building down."
I consider those "luxuries" to be a negative. Some of us want a sports car. We want less weight - less weight is good for performance in every way. We don't want the A/C compressor cluttering the engine bay. In fact, I deleted A/C from my Fiero.
If you lived were I do you would want AC over the engine. Try driving a car in 100F temp. We have already hit 101F this week. Most swaps in the Fiero hide the AC any way and try selling a car without AC. I have done a lot to lighten my Fiero but AC will never go or my power windows and locks or tilt. I do not need a radio I prefer the turbo spooling.
I wish the Opel Speedster was offered in the states. That is just about as close to a modern Fiero I've seen. It looks much better than the Elise. Plus it comes with a getrag 5 speed and an ecotec. Curb weight= 2000 lbs according to Wikipedia. Perfect. It basically is the modern Fiero. Ideally (to me) it would have an all aluminum short stroke ohv v8
This, modified just a little bit, is the closest thing in production to a modern Fiero, IMO. There would definitely have to be some changes, and it probably wouldn't even end up looking too similar in the end. But the Opel Speedster would be a good starting place.
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01:22 AM
Hockaday Member
Posts: 2165 From: Clifton Park, New York, The States. Registered: Sep 2009
2012 fiero..hell no....2060 maybe...america can't make cars anymore...pure fact. a 10' camaro weighs the same as my 1979 trans am...that's no progress...and im willing to bet the engine they include with it is crap too unless things have majorly changed...atleast in the 80s-90s american engines were pretty bad...yes there were some good ones but...i mean cmon...making engines w/o forged internals etc for the majority of them is crap. Should take note from Datsun engines...a 87 N/A motor can run 10 plus psi of boost...after that need to upgrade the octane a bit but it handles it fine...good luck doing that with the 3.4 pr stock it seems.
Don't get me wrong...I love classic american muscle etc...but the fiero is really the only american car i would drive past 1981...lets hope gm etc gets their butts into gear. That and all the corvette ppl are shot...because the fiero wouldn't get past the drawing board if they're around. Pontiac was ready to produce other cars that would have tromped the vette but they were not allowed to.
------------------ Cliff's 610th Positive Feedback Giver. #12 NYFOC Member In recent times, the custom aftermarket car/automobile roadwheel has become a status symbol. These wheels are often incorrectly referred to as "rims". The term "rim" is incorrect because the rim is only the outer portion of a wheel (where the tire is mounted )
Wow. This thread is LOL. Wonder when it will end up in Trash.
As for the Solstice, it is the worst out of all the Kappa platform cars. The styling on the Sky/GT was much better. If I were going to buy one, I'd get the Opel GT version.
As for Pontiac being the only performance center at GM, someone must be really confused, or has spent too much time watching the 'We Build Excitement (TM)' commercials on YouTube. But as far as performance goes, it's definitely up there; even with the V6. And the next gen Camaros will lose a lot of weight, and get a Z/28 again. The only reason the current Camaros weigh so much is because they are built on the heavy Holden and GTO/G8 platform.
@Hockaday, I don't know where you get your information at, but it's way off. There are plenty of 80s GM engines that will take a beating. But American Muscle doesn't come in the form of a 4 cylinder block. They put 4 cylinders in commuter vehicles, not in performance vehicles, with a few exceptions. And the Duke can take a pretty good beating itself. Comparing a market where V8 is everyone's desire, to a market where V8s don't even exist, is not a comparison. You might as well say a Vette is a faster car than a 2.2 S-10, and so S-10s are horrible cars. It's the same comparison you're making for the engines.
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09:29 AM
Hockaday Member
Posts: 2165 From: Clifton Park, New York, The States. Registered: Sep 2009
its stock for stock. 3.4 pr engine from camaro can't take the beating a 3.0 sohc can from a datsun. i beleive quality should be an expectant out of any good product.
Both are v6 both are small displacement and both were made and used in the same time frame. An engine is an engine. the camaro etc were suppose to be performance cars...why put a non performance shoddy engine in it?
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02:45 PM
shawnk Member
Posts: 968 From: San Francisco, California, USA Registered: Mar 2008
Originally posted by Hockaday: a 10' camaro weighs the same as my 1979 trans am...that's no progress...and im willing to bet the engine they include with it is crap too unless things have majorly changed...atleast in the 80s-90s american engines were pretty bad...yes there were some good ones but...i mean cmon...making engines w/o forged internals etc for the majority of them is crap. Should take note from Datsun engines...a 87 N/A motor can run 10 plus psi of boost...after that need to upgrade the octane a bit but it handles it fine...good luck doing that with the 3.4 pr stock it seems.
LOL, I hope you're kidding. If not...
Yes, things have majorly changed. My '10 weighs 3700, which is pig heavy IMO. But... can your (stock?) T/A stop in 109 ft. from 60mph, take turns decently quick despite the weight, ride comfortably and quietly when you want it to, scream to 7000rpm when you feel like it, run over 100mph in the 1/4, display about 50 engine parameters when you have it hooked up to a scanner, start reliably and without even blinking when it's 0 degrees out, cool you off in about 1 minute on a 100 degree day, warm you up in a couple when it's freezing, and still knock down 32mpg on a lazy highway cruise... all while keeping your arse alive when some jackass in a truck runs the red light and plows straight into you? I could go on and on... and that's just the V6. That, my friend, is progress.
Crap engines? V6: LLT - all-aluminum 3.6 liter 24-valve DOHC VVT with direct injection, 11.4:1 compression (runs on 87 octane), 312 hp, weighs about 375 lbs as installed. http://gmhightechperformanc...s/llt-v6-engine.html http://www.camaro5.com/foru...ngine+specifications Bone stock engines with a bolt-on rear mount turbo kit at 5psi are making about 420hp at the crank, and that's just getting started, they are new so have a while to be really figured out still.
Esprit The new Esprit weighs 3,200 Lbs and is powered by a forced-induction 5.0-liter V8. That means an 8,500rpm redline, 612 HP and 530 Lb-Ft of Torque.
Elan The Elan is going to be sort of the 911 of the Lotus family, a practical, 2+2 supercar that can still hoon with the best of ‘em. It ditches the 5.0-liter V8 of its larger siblings for a 4.0-liter forced-induction V6 making 444 HP and 343 Lb-Ft of torque. Sadly, the V6 doesn't mimic the V8's sky high rev limit, only reaching a still-respectable 7,800 RPM.
Elise The new hotness features the same RWD, mid-engined, two-seat configuration. Power comes from a 316-horsepower 2.0-liter inline four propelling the car to 62 mph from a dead stop in just 4.3 seconds.
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06:02 PM
Rick 88 Member
Posts: 3914 From: El Paso, TX. Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by Hockaday: its stock for stock. 3.4 pr engine from camaro can't take the beating a 3.0 sohc can from a datsun. i beleive quality should be an expectant out of any good product.
Both are v6 both are small displacement and both were made and used in the same time frame. An engine is an engine. the camaro etc were suppose to be performance cars...why put a non performance shoddy engine in it?
Well, at least I was right. You are really confused.
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06:39 PM
shawnk Member
Posts: 968 From: San Francisco, California, USA Registered: Mar 2008
If they made that aluminum space frame they were toying with when the Fiero was canceled, it would definitely weigh less than 3000 lbs.
Just look at what Lamborghini has done with their new car. A carbon fiber everything including the exhaust pipes. It only weighes 2200 lbs and has a 560 HP V-10 in it. I doubt that Pontiac or any GM designed vehicle would ever be that inovative, but we can all wish. See it here http://www.foxnews.com/slid.../#slide=1?test=faces
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07:46 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Lets say that GM popped out a 2012 Fiero as there are so many cars being re continued lately anyway. So basically modernize the design, new lighter and stronger alloy than the 80s so I would imagine it would be a lot lighter. What would you want for suspension, drive train options, and predominant features?
I'm pretty much happy with what I now have using the various venders here. If you tweak the Fiero enough you'll have a unique car that surpasses most of the car made by GM, Ford, and Cadillac (granted, but not better looking then Ferrari or Lamborghini). They key is to not try and add iconic known styling parts and never badge a Fiero into something everybody with a brain knows it isn't. Keep in mind-you have to spend a little bit more to get more attention. Throwing a stylish body onto a Fiero won't cut the mustard if you have 15" wheels.
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"Friends don't let their friends drive stock."
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07:55 PM
turboguy327 Member
Posts: 1692 From: Webster, NY USA Registered: Feb 2007
Originally posted by Rick 88: Being more realistic, the 3.6 DI Camaro motor makes the right sounds for a Fiero. It sounds even better with the GM Performance Parts cat back system offered for the Camaro.
That exhaust is horrible sounding for a DD. Insane drone. I had mine for 3 days on my 2011 Camaro and thank god the dealer took it back as defective. Still in the market for a new exhaust. But the 3.6 is a great engine. I only have 521 miles on mine and I love it. Tons of power for a V6 and still great gas milage. I dont know of any car that comes with manual windows still. Even Kia and suzuki are power in the base models. A power window motor and wiring and switches at what 25 pounds at most?? Why would you not want power windows and locks??
(Mine is waiting to be installed)
