Ok well, I was slightly joking, but in all respects I Do wish to at least try this someday. (got to actually get it finished and running first) I don't remember what exact thread these pictures came off of, but it was a thread in the archives about putting a M90 on a 2.8/3.4. I saved the pictures for future ideas. The problem with this idea was that you couldn't just slap a M90 on the lower intake, there would be no place for the injectors. But if you put the M90 on top on the middle intake (with a custom "box" for it to set on) it would be way too tall, taller then the Truleo by several inches. I thought I could cut the middle intake in half (or maybe a third) make a "box" that will flow air from the bottom of the M90 to the vanes of the middle intake, and use it that way. For the belt, I could simply take a scrap crank pulley, cut the ribbed part off, and weld it back on my current crank pulley. The snout looks almost perfect length for this. This way I don't have to mess with the current belt layout, and i can remove the belt if something goes wrong with the supercharger for some reason, and still have my water pump etc working. And I can keep the stock fuel rail AND use the upgraded TB. Now you may be asking..why bother? Why don't you just swap a 3800 in a be done with it? Because its different and has never been done before. Pictures:
And no offense to Francis T, but It wouldn't cost $700.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-11-2010).]
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03:54 PM
DLCLK87GT Member
Posts: 2694 From: South Jersey, USA Registered: Feb 2009
The problem with the 3.4 F-Body intake is that it interferes with the Fiero distributer.
could it be modified to miss the distributor? I don't know what one looks like so those of you who do...be nice. I have an extra regular 2.8 intake and was thinking about modifying it to make it not suck.....or suck more.... depending on how you look at it.
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04:05 PM
DLCLK87GT Member
Posts: 2694 From: South Jersey, USA Registered: Feb 2009
Further more….if one was to increase the size and function of the intake, is there a larger bolt on throttle body? Is the 3.4 TB bigger??? and don't tell me to use the "search" function.
could it be modified to miss the distributor? I don't know what one looks like so those of you who do...be nice. I have an extra regular 2.8 intake and was thinking about modifying it to make it not suck.....or suck more.... depending on how you look at it.
You could upgrade to the 7730 and DIS and not have to worry about this problem. TO use the 3.4 TB you have to use a different lower intake or you would have a bad vacuum leak. It does idle air control differently. Not to mention the need to mod all the linkages.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-11-2010).]
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04:13 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
Oddly enough, the F-body 3.4 uses a 52mm throttle body, similar to the Fiero. The throttle body is an updated design, though. So a few things on it are different. For example, the idle air passage is contained within the throttle body, whereas on the Fiero it goes down a separate pipe into the lower intake. The F-body throttle body also uses an oval intake duct, whereas the Fiero uses a round one.
I have no idea if F-body and Fiero intake parts can be mixed and matched. I haven't tried that. Maybe try the search function?
Oddly enough, the F-body 3.4 uses a 52mm throttle body, similar to the Fiero. The throttle body is an updated design, though. So a few things on it are different. For example, the idle air passage is contained within the throttle body, whereas on the Fiero it goes down a separate pipe into the lower intake. The F-body throttle body also uses an oval intake duct, whereas the Fiero uses a round one.
I have no idea if F-body and Fiero intake parts can be mixed and matched. I haven't tried that. Maybe try the search function?
You could, but you would have too block the idle air passage on the Fiero Intake. Also, if you want to use the F-body 3.4 intake, you would have to figure out the EGR plumbing, and you will have to use the SFI fuel rail, which has the fuel lines come in on the opposite side the Fiero fuel rail does, so you would have to route new fuel lines. Also, you would need to totally re-do the vacuum lines.
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05:36 PM
topher_time Member
Posts: 3231 From: Bailey's Harbor, for now. Registered: Sep 2005
There's likely a reason for that. Lots of work for little gain.
But it would cost less if I did most of everything myself. Maybe it will be a lower gain, but i already spent a lot on my 3.4, and I couldn't afford a 3800 swap in the first place. Plus it seems like "everyone has one" nowadays. I have a lot more time then money right now in my life. This would be something that would be 100% custom that has never been tried before. Kinda like building a Turbo Iron Duke, just not as bad. It would be "Different", even in this community. Just like me.
But thank you for your words of wisdom.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-12-2010).]
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01:38 AM
Feb 13th, 2010
TT Slick Member
Posts: 135 From: Columbus, Georgia Registered: Dec 2004
I think this is a carbed setup. Don't think the OP wants a carb setup. If he did, then he got himself covered by going to summit racing. Still, thats a awesome setup there. Looks like a supercharged V8 at first glance. And that supercharger looks like a M62, lot smaller then an M90.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-14-2010).]
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02:26 AM
Patrick Member
Posts: 36251 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Yes it is a carbed setup, I read on here where they said a carbed setup has better performance than efi. I wanted to see if they were right. The supercharger is a M90 from a V8 Ford.
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08:15 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
The only aftermarket intakes available (that can still be bought) is the Trueleo, Edelbrock, and Fageol.
As for GM OEM there are a few that will bolt to the engine, It's just the distributor causes some interference.
For normally aspirated EFI, the Trueleo is the easiest. Some folks have made dual throttlebody intakes and these have worked very well, but nobody manufactures them for sale. West Coast Fiero sells modified upper plenums that are suppose to increase flow, But it isn't quite enough for a 3.4L. They more or less increase plenum volume rather than peak flow.
As noted there are carb versions as well. Edelbrock makes one that can use a 2-bbl or a 4-bbl carb. Offenhauser made a 4-bbl version back in the day but you can't buy one new. You would need to locate one on Ebay or Craig's list.
The Fageol is a roots style supercharger. Originally designed for the 2.8L inside the S-10/S15 pick-ups, They use throttle body injection or a carb. They don't have a specific kit for the Fiero, But they do have the parts to do it. http://www.fageolsuperchargers.com/
At one time someone made an ITB (individual throttle body) intake for the 2.8L. I don't remember what company made it. I've seen pics but never one for real.
quote
Originally posted by TT Slick:
Yes it is a carbed setup, I read on here where they said a carbed setup has better performance than efi. I wanted to see if they were right. The supercharger is a M90 from a V8 Ford.
The carb'd version having "better" performance that you read on here is the one I built. (there are a few others with carb'd versions as well) This was before the Trueleo intake was made. The carb'd version or the Trueleo will give you basically the same performance. You can see the results of two engines built nearly identical except on was carb'd and the other uses a Trueleo intake: //www.fiero.nl/forum/A...060206-2-066575.html
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 02-14-2010).]
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09:05 AM
TT Slick Member
Posts: 135 From: Columbus, Georgia Registered: Dec 2004
At one time someone made an ITB (individual throttle body) intake for the 2.8L. I don't remember what company made it. I've seen pics but never one for real.
Just came across this pic... no details or other info... and might not even be for a fiero:
What I wish is that Truleo would make one in this design with the square top instead of barrel but then add his runners to the manifold. One barrel carburetor would be fine for me to keep it more simple. This picture still looks promising but the air still has a lot of sharp turns that may restrict it. I can even see a CNC Fiero badge that mimic the original look.... Great Idea I think.. Anyone up for the challenge?
With the original carb you can place it in a location that doesn't hit the distributor. The enter tubing to the body can be mandrel bent to avoid the distributor.
I have one of those Falconer manifolds. I managed to get my hands on the whole motor. The issue with the IRM manifold is tuning and with the injectors so far away from the chamber it was a nightmare on the street. I may move the injectors down as low as I can and turn the upper holes into a balance tube. There are a lot of different manifolds that you can make if you like to tig weld. I might make a tunnel ram style manifold.
Dave
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11:08 PM
Feb 16th, 2010
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5252 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
Just came across this pic... no details or other info... and might not even be for a fiero:
That's the L98 twin 48mm TB or the LT1 which is a twin 52mm iirc. I have my Trueleo mounted to the L98 one...or is that the other way around.
I should also note that I had to mount the TB upside down in order to make it line up with the stock connectors where as this photo shows it right-side up.
I should once again note that I had to reverse the wiring on the TPS so that it sent the correct signals to the '7730 (or Fiero) ECM.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 02-16-2010).]
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10:30 AM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
i had a 3500 intake my brother made that had seperate TB runners on it with a LT1 TB. i think it was two 1.5" tubes feeding from each butterfly of the TB into each bank of the engine. it had a mean lope with my cam in it from that UIM/TB combo. look for the video called lopey idle im my videos link.
I have an Edelbrock carb'd setup and it took quite a bit to meter that carb on the 2.8 because the jetting and power valve setup are for 300 ci. range of engine. Once I got it dialed in (I posted the info for that) it runs great. The one problem is that the Edebrock intake is really too tall for the Fiero. You have to add a scoop.
I also have the Offy intake which is a whole lot lower and will install without the deck mod. No, my Offy is not for sale, but my Edelbrock intake will be some time this year.
I take it from your question that you are looking for a cheaper but equal option and from my research there isn't one. If I was doing it for the first time today, I'd be emailing Francis T. While I don't like the look of the barrel, he does have the best alternative and a properly designed product.
Hope this helps.
Arn
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03:42 PM
vinny Member
Posts: 1690 From: starkville MISSISSIPPI Registered: Mar 2003