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Intake alternatives besides Truleo by fyrebird68
Started on: 02-10-2010 08:35 PM
Replies: 57
Last post by: Blacktree on 07-30-2010 10:35 PM
fyrebird68
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Report this Post02-10-2010 08:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fyrebird68Click Here to Email fyrebird68Send a Private Message to fyrebird68Direct Link to This Post
Most people on here agree that the stock Fiero V6 intake is restrictive and that the Truleo intake is a proven improvement, but what else works?

For example, what kind of intake was used on the 3.4 L Firebirds in the 90s? What was used on the other pushrod 60deg V6 applications that GM made?

Just wonderin'...
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[This message has been edited by fyrebird68 (edited 02-10-2010).]

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Report this Post02-10-2010 08:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Direct Link to This Post
Never mind.

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 02-10-2010).]

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Blacktree
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Report this Post02-10-2010 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeDirect Link to This Post
The problem with the 3.4 F-Body intake is that it interferes with the Fiero distributer.

Edelbrock makes an intake for the 60-degree V6, but it uses a carburetor.
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Report this Post02-10-2010 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaDirect Link to This Post
Cut down the Middle Intake and put a M90 on top.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post02-11-2010 08:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
Turbo?
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Report this Post02-11-2010 11:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Cut down the Middle Intake and put a M90 on top.



You've done this? Pictures?

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-14-2010).]

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Report this Post02-11-2010 03:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


You've done this? Pictures?


Ok well, I was slightly joking, but in all respects I Do wish to at least try this someday. (got to actually get it finished and running first)
I don't remember what exact thread these pictures came off of, but it was a thread in the archives about putting a M90 on a 2.8/3.4. I saved the pictures for future ideas.
The problem with this idea was that you couldn't just slap a M90 on the lower intake, there would be no place for the injectors. But if you put the M90 on top on the middle intake (with a custom "box" for it to set on) it would be way too tall, taller then the Truleo by several inches. I thought I could cut the middle intake in half (or maybe a third) make a "box" that will flow air from the bottom of the M90 to the vanes of the middle intake, and use it that way. For the belt, I could simply take a scrap crank pulley, cut the ribbed part off, and weld it back on my current crank pulley. The snout looks almost perfect length for this. This way I don't have to mess with the current belt layout, and i can remove the belt if something goes wrong with the supercharger for some reason, and still have my water pump etc working. And I can keep the stock fuel rail AND use the upgraded TB.
Now you may be asking..why bother? Why don't you just swap a 3800 in a be done with it? Because its different and has never been done before.
Pictures:






And no offense to Francis T, but It wouldn't cost $700.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-11-2010).]

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DLCLK87GT
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Report this Post02-11-2010 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DLCLK87GTSend a Private Message to DLCLK87GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

The problem with the 3.4 F-Body intake is that it interferes with the Fiero distributer.



could it be modified to miss the distributor? I don't know what one looks like so those of you who do...be nice.
I have an extra regular 2.8 intake and was thinking about modifying it to make it not suck.....or suck more.... depending on how you look at it.
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Report this Post02-11-2010 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DLCLK87GTSend a Private Message to DLCLK87GTDirect Link to This Post

DLCLK87GT

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Further moreā€¦.if one was to increase the size and function of the intake, is there a larger bolt on throttle body? Is the 3.4 TB bigger??? and don't tell me to use the "search" function.
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Report this Post02-11-2010 04:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DLCLK87GT:


could it be modified to miss the distributor? I don't know what one looks like so those of you who do...be nice.
I have an extra regular 2.8 intake and was thinking about modifying it to make it not suck.....or suck more.... depending on how you look at it.


You could upgrade to the 7730 and DIS and not have to worry about this problem.
TO use the 3.4 TB you have to use a different lower intake or you would have a bad vacuum leak. It does idle air control differently.
Not to mention the need to mod all the linkages.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-11-2010).]

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Blacktree
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Report this Post02-11-2010 05:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeDirect Link to This Post
Oddly enough, the F-body 3.4 uses a 52mm throttle body, similar to the Fiero. The throttle body is an updated design, though. So a few things on it are different. For example, the idle air passage is contained within the throttle body, whereas on the Fiero it goes down a separate pipe into the lower intake. The F-body throttle body also uses an oval intake duct, whereas the Fiero uses a round one.

I have no idea if F-body and Fiero intake parts can be mixed and matched. I haven't tried that. Maybe try the search function?
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Report this Post02-11-2010 05:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

Oddly enough, the F-body 3.4 uses a 52mm throttle body, similar to the Fiero. The throttle body is an updated design, though. So a few things on it are different. For example, the idle air passage is contained within the throttle body, whereas on the Fiero it goes down a separate pipe into the lower intake. The F-body throttle body also uses an oval intake duct, whereas the Fiero uses a round one.

I have no idea if F-body and Fiero intake parts can be mixed and matched. I haven't tried that. Maybe try the search function?


You could, but you would have too block the idle air passage on the Fiero Intake. Also, if you want to use the F-body 3.4 intake, you would have to figure out the EGR plumbing, and you will have to use the SFI fuel rail, which has the fuel lines come in on the opposite side the Fiero fuel rail does, so you would have to route new fuel lines. Also, you would need to totally re-do the vacuum lines.
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Report this Post02-11-2010 08:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for topher_timeClick Here to Email topher_timeSend a Private Message to topher_timeDirect Link to This Post
This one works pretty good. Just need to do a few modifications to the vacuum hoses. I may sell it...

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Report this Post02-11-2010 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 17CarSend a Private Message to 17CarDirect Link to This Post
To get the distributor out of the way, you could convert to a DIS setup.
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/103834.html
With this, you might be able to use the camaro intake.

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Report this Post02-12-2010 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Now you may be asking..why bother? Why don't you just swap a 3800 in a be done with it? Because its different and has never been done before.



There's likely a reason for that. Lots of work for little gain.

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Report this Post02-12-2010 01:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


There's likely a reason for that. Lots of work for little gain.


But it would cost less if I did most of everything myself. Maybe it will be a lower gain, but i already spent a lot on my 3.4, and I couldn't afford a 3800 swap in the first place. Plus it seems like "everyone has one" nowadays. I have a lot more time then money right now in my life. This would be something that would be 100% custom that has never been tried before. Kinda like building a Turbo Iron Duke, just not as bad. It would be "Different", even in this community. Just like me.

But thank you for your words of wisdom.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-12-2010).]

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Report this Post02-13-2010 12:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TT SlickClick Here to Email TT SlickSend a Private Message to TT SlickDirect Link to This Post


Or maybe something like this?
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Report this Post02-13-2010 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Nurb432Send a Private Message to Nurb432Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:


Now you may be asking..why bother? Why don't you just swap a 3800 in a be done with it? Because its different and has never been done before.




No one has done a turbine yet either.. ( yet... I'm not done with my plans... )
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Report this Post02-14-2010 02:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TT Slick:



Or maybe something like this?


I think this is a carbed setup. Don't think the OP wants a carb setup. If he did, then he got himself covered by going to summit racing.
Still, thats a awesome setup there. Looks like a supercharged V8 at first glance. And that supercharger looks like a M62, lot smaller then an M90.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-14-2010).]

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Report this Post02-14-2010 03:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

I think this is a carbed setup.



Those are carbs?

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Report this Post02-14-2010 03:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for unboundmoClick Here to Email unboundmoSend a Private Message to unboundmoDirect Link to This Post
look like Webber
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Report this Post02-14-2010 08:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TT SlickClick Here to Email TT SlickSend a Private Message to TT SlickDirect Link to This Post
Yes it is a carbed setup, I read on here where they said a carbed setup has better performance than efi. I wanted to see if they were right. The supercharger is a M90 from a V8 Ford.
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Report this Post02-14-2010 09:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OreifClick Here to visit Oreif's HomePageClick Here to Email OreifSend a Private Message to OreifDirect Link to This Post
The only aftermarket intakes available (that can still be bought) is the Trueleo, Edelbrock, and Fageol.

As for GM OEM there are a few that will bolt to the engine, It's just the distributor causes some interference.

For normally aspirated EFI, the Trueleo is the easiest. Some folks have made dual throttlebody intakes and these have worked very well, but nobody manufactures them for sale. West Coast Fiero sells modified upper plenums that are suppose to increase flow, But it isn't quite enough for a 3.4L. They more or less increase plenum volume rather than peak flow.

As noted there are carb versions as well. Edelbrock makes one that can use a 2-bbl or a 4-bbl carb. Offenhauser made a 4-bbl version back in the day but you can't buy one new. You would need to locate one on Ebay or Craig's list.

The Fageol is a roots style supercharger. Originally designed for the 2.8L inside the S-10/S15 pick-ups, They use throttle body injection or a carb. They don't have a specific kit for the Fiero, But they do have the parts to do it. http://www.fageolsuperchargers.com/



You can see build pics here of one on a truck: http://www.614streets.com/2.8.html

At one time someone made an ITB (individual throttle body) intake for the 2.8L. I don't remember what company made it. I've seen pics but never one for real.

 
quote
Originally posted by TT Slick:

Yes it is a carbed setup, I read on here where they said a carbed setup has better performance than efi. I wanted to see if they were right. The supercharger is a M90 from a V8 Ford.


The carb'd version having "better" performance that you read on here is the one I built. (there are a few others with carb'd versions as well) This was before the Trueleo intake was made. The carb'd version or the Trueleo will give you basically the same performance. You can see the results of two engines built nearly identical except on was carb'd and the other uses a Trueleo intake: //www.fiero.nl/forum/A...060206-2-066575.html

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 02-14-2010).]

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Report this Post02-14-2010 09:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TT SlickClick Here to Email TT SlickSend a Private Message to TT SlickDirect Link to This Post
Yes, you are the they I was refering to.
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Report this Post02-14-2010 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Oreif:

At one time someone made an ITB (individual throttle body) intake for the 2.8L. I don't remember what company made it. I've seen pics but never one for real.



That's the Falconer intake. Kris Munson had one on his car at the 20th Anniversary show.
//www.fiero.nl/forum/A...030531-2-029631.html






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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-14-2010).]

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Report this Post02-15-2010 03:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
Just came across this pic... no details or other info... and might not even be for a fiero:

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Report this Post02-15-2010 03:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
Just came across this pic... no details or other info... and might not even be for a fiero:



NICE

but, I expect that hits the distributer as well
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Report this Post02-15-2010 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for unboundmoClick Here to Email unboundmoSend a Private Message to unboundmoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Just came across this pic... no details or other info... and might not even be for a fiero:



What I wish is that Truleo would make one in this design with the square top instead of barrel but then add his runners to the manifold. One barrel carburetor would be fine for me to keep it more simple. This picture still looks promising but the air still has a lot of sharp turns that may restrict it. I can even see a CNC Fiero badge that mimic the original look.... Great Idea I think.. Anyone up for the challenge?
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unboundmo

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With the original carb you can place it in a location that doesn't hit the distributor. The enter tubing to the body can be mandrel bent to avoid the distributor.
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revin
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Report this Post02-15-2010 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinDirect Link to This Post
I remember this one. I think it is a intercooler built in!
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Report this Post02-15-2010 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OreifClick Here to visit Oreif's HomePageClick Here to Email OreifSend a Private Message to OreifDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


That's the Falconer intake. Kris Munson had one on his car at the 20th Anniversary show.
//www.fiero.nl/forum/A...030531-2-029631.html






My World of Wheels Winners (Click on links below)

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Yes that's the one. Thanks for posting it.
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Report this Post02-15-2010 10:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Oreif:


Yes that's the one. Thanks for posting it.


Now THAT is cool.
Lots of cool ideas posted here, but I still like my M90 Idea.
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Report this Post02-15-2010 10:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:
That's the Falconer intake. Kris Munson had one on his car at the 20th Anniversary show.



"It's a b!tch to tune." -- Kris



Amazing, nonetheless.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-15-2010).]

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Report this Post02-15-2010 11:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for seabird296Send a Private Message to seabird296Direct Link to This Post
I have one of those Falconer manifolds. I managed to get my hands on the whole motor. The issue with the IRM manifold is tuning and with the injectors so far away from the chamber it was a nightmare on the street. I may move the injectors down as low as I can and turn the upper holes into a balance tube. There are a lot of different manifolds that you can make if you like to tig weld. I might make a tunnel ram style manifold.

Dave
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Report this Post02-16-2010 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Just came across this pic... no details or other info... and might not even be for a fiero:



That's the L98 twin 48mm TB or the LT1 which is a twin 52mm iirc.
I have my Trueleo mounted to the L98 one...or is that the other way around.

I should also note that I had to mount the TB upside down in order to make it line up with the stock connectors where as this photo shows it right-side up.

I should once again note that I had to reverse the wiring on the TPS so that it sent the correct signals to the '7730 (or Fiero) ECM.

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 02-16-2010).]

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Report this Post02-16-2010 02:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kDirect Link to This Post
i had a 3500 intake my brother made that had seperate TB runners on it with a LT1 TB. i think it was two 1.5" tubes feeding from each butterfly of the TB into each bank of the engine. it had a mean lope with my cam in it from that UIM/TB combo. look for the video called lopey idle im my videos link.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem
Fiero's are people too. We pay just as much attention to them, if not more than our loved ones
screw paying those bastards. im not going to become rich by paying for things.....

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Arns85GT
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Report this Post02-16-2010 03:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTDirect Link to This Post
I have an Edelbrock carb'd setup and it took quite a bit to meter that carb on the 2.8 because the jetting and power valve setup are for 300 ci. range of engine. Once I got it dialed in (I posted the info for that) it runs great. The one problem is that the Edebrock intake is really too tall for the Fiero. You have to add a scoop.

I also have the Offy intake which is a whole lot lower and will install without the deck mod. No, my Offy is not for sale, but my Edelbrock intake will be some time this year.

I take it from your question that you are looking for a cheaper but equal option and from my research there isn't one. If I was doing it for the first time today, I'd be emailing Francis T. While I don't like the look of the barrel, he does have the best alternative and a properly designed product.

Hope this helps.

Arn
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Report this Post02-16-2010 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for vinnyClick Here to Email vinnySend a Private Message to vinnyDirect Link to This Post
This has probably been covered before but can the stock intake setup be extrude honed?
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Report this Post02-16-2010 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for project34Send a Private Message to project34Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by vinny:

This has probably been covered before but can the stock intake setup be extrude honed?

Yes.

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vinny
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Report this Post02-16-2010 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for vinnyClick Here to Email vinnySend a Private Message to vinnyDirect Link to This Post
YES to what? Answers like that are useless.
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