After agonizing for a few days,i've conceded to using the $1000 budget for the new turbocharger to replace the compressor in my shop instead. Will also be installing a 200a service box.
It's been something i've needed to do for awhile,just put off. The previous weeks have been hell with my current project and some other stuff i've been working on. I have little time,and could get twice as much done with the better equipment. I would do both,but we are paying our house off in the next couple months and I would rather not rebudget that money.
I've decided I can live with lower power expectations temporarily,since it means my home shop will also have a 12klb lift by summer now. So,no bigger turbo-nothing else changes (other than injector size). Power goals have gone down,I'm cool with anything around 250.
Still waiting on the cam kit and factory service manual to get here. Engine is on the stand,everything but the heads are off pretty much. Have everything bagged and labeled. Trans is ready to go into the truck for trip to friends shop on the mountain,talked to him yesterday he just said come up on a saturday. Need to pick up the trans kit this week when i'm in the city. Exhaust is ported and polished,awaiting coating. Upper is ported and polished,awaiting paint and possibly "Fiero" etching. Lower is cleaned and awaiting porting(same time as heads) Valve covers awaiting paint. TB is dissassembled in a box,till I can find a throttle blade or throttle body the right size.
Have been holding off starting the heads,I need to go to a pick and pull 1/2 hour away for some parts for a customer's ride and might leave with a 3400 engine for the heck of it. More than likely will be getting a 95 3.4 camaro engine being pulled now due to a blown head gasket also. Don't have any plans to change the engine now,but will be evaluating the accesories mounts and head/intake setups. I'm putting together a team of technicians for a possible fiero LeMons car,and can use all the spare parts anyway.
So,right now just waiting on the cam kit and service manual. Once i've got those it will be a quick flurry of activity and will yank heads,crank and pistons-measure,weigh,grind etc.. Then a quick trip to machine shop for bearings after I mic the crank,and shortblock assembly.
At the same time,heads should be lined out what's happening and hopefully somewhere near complete.
So far i've done all work with no assistance,as it's usually as an hour or so frees up I just go out there. So it's taking me longer than expected, I had hoped to be ready to install by this time. Here's a few pics from my phone of nothing of consequence. A few of the tools I gathered from work (good tools) and my shop (china/craftsman) to dissassemble. Notice the baggies? I've got a big box full of them,along with a labeler I use for marking different parts for reassembly. And my little corner of the dining room for finishing work (heavy stuff is done at work)
Still haven't heard back from Majestic Turbo... (turbo is only postponed till summertime)
[This message has been edited by DefEddie (edited 02-21-2010).]
Well,got my service manual yesterday and the cam kit today. Also bought a 3.4 out of a 95 camaro for cheap,buddy's shop yanked it due to a head gasket and installed another. I got it for less than the price of a core.
Not going to use it,but really thinking about using the upper/lower intake if I can flip one or the other.
Upsetting,since I have alot of work in the other upper (have held off on the lower for this reason). Gonna pick it up tomorrow,and decide which intake setup to use after some test fitting. Also yanking all the accesory brackets,i'm collecting them. Not sure what will be used,but I've got all the accessories and brackets off the following engines 86 S10 2.8 TBI,86 Fiero 2.8,95 Camaro 3.4,90 3.1 grand prix Between all of them I should be able to find a setup that works for the fiero I figure. I also have brackets/accessories for a 93 and 97 chevy 350 and 97,99 and 2000 4.3's.
Something is going fit without cutting anything,i'm gonna take lots of pics. Also have the timing covers from all those v6 engines to decide what i'll use.
Feel free to throw any suggestion's you think might work and i'll try them first. I'll be keeping the AC,and don't plan to cut into my decklid.
My son has surgery this next week,so not sure if the flurry of activity will happen this week or after next. I've also got another kid that's not feeling great so hard to find time to work. I would have already done alot of it earlier but got frustrated when none of my bolt set's (about 6) for my puller did not fit the balancer. Neither did any of the other 3 quick bolts I grabbed to use. I keep forgetting to stop by tractor supply when i'm in town.
Well,even with a bad week I found more time than I thought I would. Kid came down with bad fever and body rash night before surgery,so no go it's been postponed.
Got the block tore down finally,everything looked good till I pulled the mains off. Bearings have numerous scratches and foreign material,enough that i'm just sending everything to the machine shop. The motor has been apart before,that is obvious. All the rods have been stamped already,though i'm betting that is when it was built at the Mclaren facility. I'm confused though,as I know they balanced everything and betting blueprinted also. But they didn't take out any of the sharp ridges from the mains or rods or any number of other small things that most engine builders know. Looks like they balanced,rebuilt and sent on. This is reinforced from stuff I saw earlier like brackets that I figured should be easy to make,were just stockers obviously ground down.
I also got the 95 camaro 3.4 home,and even contemplated using it maybe. My cam kit wouldn't allow me to utilize the cam sensor though,and that was the only reason I even considered using it was for the cam sensor (OBDII conversion) I do plan to go ahead and rebuild it pretty wild and turbo ready though,i've got a few things here at the house I could throw it in or my buddy will buy it. I got it pulled down to the heads,and think i've pretty much decided not to even use anything on it. I thought about using the different timing cover,but decided against it. I've got conflicting info that the stock rockers are 1.6's,might use them if they are. Anyway, Heads are in the jet cleaner at work Block is going to the machine shop tomorrow It will be tanked,fluxed,polished,bearinged,sealed and crank,rods,pistons installed. here's some pics
Pulled the heads from the jet bath today,took them to detail for a quick acid spray and pressure wash again. Dissassembled the rest of the head(valves and springs) then took a scrubber to the ports in a solvent bath. I suspect two of the valves are slightly bent,not sure till they are ground. Will begin porting,polishing and chamber work when I get back from lunch,assuming no work comes in. Right now they are in the jet bath again,and will get another not so quick acid spray also. The bowls could really use some work,no wonder they flow like crap. Haven't checked the deck or head face with a straightedge yet,but nothing looks like it needs machined.
Couple more pics from the work done yesterday. Didn't get to start the heads,but got the block fully dissassembled and cleaned,acid spray,cleaned again etc.. I'm hoping to get the longblock together by next week,so I can stick it in a corner while I finish up with everything else. All the brackets etc.. all need cleaned and coated or painted. I've started dissassembling the turbocharger but haven't been able to get back on it yet. Have a couple surprises here and there,also haven't even started on intercooler or water meth stuff (or nitrous). That stuff will be easy though,hardest will be mounting and routing of everything-much easier when everything is in place. Also not started on the wiring harness yet,again the harness will be done while the engine is in place. I plan to route quite a bit differently than stock and change up a few circuits and add several for easier repair,diagnosis and monitoring.
Looking really good. Already done that whole rebuilding phase with my 3.4, now i just need to put it in my car. I have a question though. Can't you flip the intake around so that the "3.1" lettering is facing the trunk, or will that not work?
Looking really good. Already done that whole rebuilding phase with my 3.4, now i just need to put it in my car. I have a question though. Can't you flip the intake around so that the "3.1" lettering is facing the trunk, or will that not work?
It won't work,the ports are spaced differently on each bank. It would also put the TB on the wrong side,which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing as I could eliminate tubing on the other side due to intercooler etc.. I plan to play with stuff when I get it all back in my garage,block was too nasty to mess with till I cleaned it. I haven't looked at the head jackets to see if it's possible to reverse the lower. Don't think I can without more work than I wanna do. I pretty much see everything going in as it came out honestly,we'll see when I start mocking up. I plan to check alot of different possibilities.
Well,not much progress lately. Been dealing with life and other things,so not getting to work on the engine much.
Went to my buddies house where the block is yesterday though. Got the cylinder's honed,checked the deck for flatness,finished up the port job on a head and took out the cam bearing's. Buddy taught me alot of little tricks I didn't know about several things.
He also gave me a new LS model 8.1/496ci shortblock,and complete 3800 series II motor(needs bearings) and the top end off a series II L67. He was just going to scrap them,he doesn't mess with newer motors or V6 stuff.
We verified that SBC cam bearings would work on the 3.1,but decided against using them. The only difference we found was the number 1 cam bearing on an SBC has a single oiling hole where the 3.1 has 2. Not an issue,can simply hand drill the other hole or leave it be with one. I decided to just go with the stock bearing's though,they are 2$ more but neither of us are seeing a big gain over going to the SBC coated except more meat and less strain on startup. He builds NHRA and stocker motors every day and has for years,and he said they've noticed no difference between the coated or non. I wanted them for reliability but I honestly doubt this will see 100k plus in this car.
I've been held up also by the dang machine shop I gave my crank to. Only needs turned down a little bit,but taking forever for some reason. Hoping for some progress this week though.
As a GTP/TGP enthusiast I gotta say I'm greatly relieved that you're restoring the car and not parting or scrapping it. These are very special cars and deserve better than that fate. I'd be troubled by the turbo increases with the "bigger must be better!" mentality, but you've clearly got the knowledge and skill to deal with any problems that will arise from meddling with McLaren perfection. Using that spare 3.4 block might not be such a bad idea though, several people have demonstrated that it can handle boost and you could get to 300hp a lot more easily with 10% more displacement.
you're doing such a nice job with this swap! i would have loved to have gone through the whole motor like you're doing... great job. keep up the good work.
it'll be awesome to have two Fiero-larens running around. ;]
------------------ "Be not led astray, bretheren beloved..." -James 1:16.
Thanks, Danyel, for the graphic.
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07:23 AM
PFF
System Bot
htexans1 Member
Posts: 9110 From: Clear Lake City/Houston TX Registered: Sep 2001
CrazyD i'm sorry to dissappoint but i'm not restoring the car. Have no title and found the front driverside frame/unibody to be rusted beyond what I would want to repair. And just the cost of destroyed parts would take the project over the actual worth of the car,not accounting for labor and time.
I do still plan to give away the chassis to an interested person who wants to restore,but this engine is going in my 88GT.
I will mention again that I'm not too impressed with the McLaren build quality,i'm no guru but my buddy who is much more knowledgable was very unimpressed also. "Looks like the factory built it off the line,but still looks like factory crap" was his comment. Some of the machining didn't look the greatest,and as a whole I would simply call it a good start-but would hope the quality of work doesn't compare to the actual McLaren built performance engines.
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12:21 PM
chadwilkins Member
Posts: 74 From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA Registered: Mar 2010
Nice project. I sent you a pm about buying what is left of the car, as its one of my favorite cars!
Your A Winner!,No purchase necessary,all sales final,No Warranties Expressed,Written or Implied.
I'll check my inbox,you can have the car-I won't be selling it. It won't have a hood,wheels,cluster etc.. though when you get ahold of it. It's in rough shape,I let my brother in law "dissassemble" some stuff for me. But the body is sound for the most part. Not sure when I'll be done with it,for sure not until the fiero is done in case I need some parts from it.
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11:49 AM
chadwilkins Member
Posts: 74 From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA Registered: Mar 2010
Sweet I responded to your pm, i for sure want it. Let me know when you are finished with it!
quote
Originally posted by DefEddie:
Your A Winner!,No purchase necessary,all sales final,No Warranties Expressed,Written or Implied.
I'll check my inbox,you can have the car-I won't be selling it. It won't have a hood,wheels,cluster etc.. though when you get ahold of it. It's in rough shape,I let my brother in law "dissassemble" some stuff for me. But the body is sound for the most part. Not sure when I'll be done with it,for sure not until the fiero is done in case I need some parts from it.
Quick update. Been pretty sick the past several weeks so no work done on anything. I did finally get the crank back from the machine shop. Heads still need a little bit more work to be finished,but other than that I just need to buy the bearings and the longblock will be ready to go. This really shouldn't be taking this long,but have alot of stuff going on atm.
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10:43 AM
chadwilkins Member
Posts: 74 From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA Registered: Mar 2010
Not yet,life happens. Literally,no updates. Rebuilt most all of the front end of the 88. Rebuilt the rack,control arms,new shocks etc.. Then replaced the timing chain/water pump on the current 2.8. Then the fuel pump went out (3rd time in less than 3 tanks). The 88 is my daily,and the wife hates when I take her car. I have other vehicles,but if I put off fixing the fiero it will end up a project. I'm going to hand my buddy some money and bearings and tell him to drop the longblock off at my house. He'll need to finish to porting though also.
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11:37 PM
Jun 19th, 2010
Rallaster Member
Posts: 9105 From: Indy southside, IN Registered: Jul 2009
Any updates, I think I have my eye on a Mclaren turbo 3.1, but I'm not sure it is. By all accounts that's what it is, so I'm seriously considering snatching it up to put in mine. Would be a nice upgrade from a 24 year old 200K mile iron duke.
Already done that whole rebuilding phase with my 3.4, now i just need to put it in my car.
