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True Point Four build by Alex4mula
Started on: 12-17-2005 10:01 AM
Replies: 165
Last post by: Alex4mula on 09-03-2010 02:42 PM
Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-17-2005 10:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
Well, it has been over a year when I finished my TPI build in my red car so I needed another winter project. That car had a nice Grooms 3.4 engine with many mods that was putting around 146rwHP/190rwTQ so it needed a new home. What better patient than my stock 2.8 yellow car! This car I bought it back around 2001 as a white Formula. I was going to convert it to a GT but after seeing it as an SE I fell in love with that shape and that way it stayed. Main difference is that it has round trims as an 88 SE would have I guess. It has a totally stock 2.8 with a NX kit.
The plan is to add some proven performance upgrades to the 3.4 and see how it responds. It is not my intent to document a full 3.4 swap. The True Point Four name comes because I will use the Trueleo intake, which seems to be the hottest item around for 2.8-3.4 cars. After all mods I will dyno the car and show here the results, as I always like to bring real factual data and no talk The original output of that engine was mainly a result of these mods:
- Ported TB and intake (last I used was J. Striker's proto)
- Custom CAI
- Under drive pulley
- FOCOA headers
- No cat
- Borla exhaust
- Jacobs ignition computer and wires with NGK UR5 plugs and Accel coil
- Wester's custom PROM
- Minor porting of middle and lower manifolds

Cam and rockers were stock 3.4, heads were stock, regular timing chain, exhaust pipe diameter was stock and tranny for the dyno pull was a 5 speed Getrag. The mods that I will add on top of that are;
- Trueleo intake
- H272 cam and valve train
- Shaved heads
- 2.5" exhaust from down pipe to single entry/exit Magnaflow muffler
- 1.52 roller tip rockers
- Roller timing chain
- PROM tuning with WBO2

Tranny will be stock automatic. I hope I can bump up some ponies with that and have more fun with it. Also this car will keep the wet nitrous kit that I will add on top of that for track use. Ok, enough talk. Here is the subject to be operated;

The subject to be extirpated;

And my operating room ready for it


V8 Swap link: //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/046290.html
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[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 12-19-2005).]

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-17-2005 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
This is the 3.4 as it came out of the other car. Just like any other ugly and dirty Fiero engine..



And this is the center piece of all

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Report this Post12-17-2005 02:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RonnieClick Here to Email RonnieSend a Private Message to RonnieDirect Link to This Post
Looks kinda like a big 'ol Anteater !!! LOL. Just joking. Waiting for more pictures.
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Report this Post12-17-2005 03:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LilchiefSend a Private Message to LilchiefDirect Link to This Post
Alex , was wondering how big of a shot of nitrous your using? Have you used it and results? Any track times? It should run pretty good when you get done. Good luck

------------------
85 GT 3.4
Auto 3.08
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60"

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Report this Post12-17-2005 04:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
Probably my favorite Fiero on the Forum.
With a Trueleo/3.4 swap.
You're also doing a lot of the same mods that I have planned for mine, when I do the 5 speed.

I am so watching this thread.

Best of luck!

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88 3.4 coupe...........

Praise the Lowered!
Read Nealz Nuze!

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-17-2005 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
Thanks. Have many pics pending. Today I had our local Fiero club members at home (8) so I didn't have more time. More to come tomorrow

Lilchief; I ran a 75hp shot on it. Don't have track times but 0-60 in a G-Tech dropped from 8.5s to 6.3s.

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olaf_fiero27
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Report this Post12-17-2005 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olaf_fiero27Click Here to Email olaf_fiero27Send a Private Message to olaf_fiero27Direct Link to This Post
I love your 2 cars, simply amazing, the yellow notchy is definetley on my top 3 list for notchbacks, Good Job! One question I had though is which plenum is that on the 3.4 motor, looks cool, post more pics of it if possible.

Thanks

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Report this Post12-17-2005 11:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseClick Here to Email exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseDirect Link to This Post

This car has always been one of my favorites ! It looks good in the pics, but sooooooo much better in person.

Can't wait to watch the progress on this one !

Hey Alex i know you like both of your cars, but do you have a preference for one or the other ??

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-19-2005 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
Let me continue. olaf_fiero27; That's the Trueleo intake. Tony, I have no major preference. I like the color and sleekness of the yellow plust it easy to use automatic and the simplicity of the red with the big rumble and 5 speed to shift. Here are some more pictures of the intake. This thing is a work of art...

I cannot forget about my #1 fan



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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-19-2005 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
This is how this thing looks inside. I wonder how he does that;

The 3.4 block has a starter pad on the other side I think for the Camaro application. On the 5 speed it is no problem but in the auto it will interfere with the tranny as you can see. Just take a grinder and 5 min later you are done


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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-20-2005 03:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
I powder coated some parts. These are the valve covers after coming from the hot tank and being masked;


And these is how they came out after some cooking;


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Report this Post12-20-2005 06:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olaf_fiero27Click Here to Email olaf_fiero27Send a Private Message to olaf_fiero27Direct Link to This Post
Sorry, I meant the intake manifold that is on the 3.4 when it is on your garage floor, not the truleo one.
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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-20-2005 08:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olaf_fiero27:

Sorry, I meant the intake manifold that is on the 3.4 when it is on your garage floor, not the truleo one.

Oh that one. Look at the history of that one on these;
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20050119-2-047158.html
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20041015-2-031564.html

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-29-2005 02:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
So my engine is back from the machine shop. Sent it there to shave the heads, clean up the valves and assemble the cam, chain and valvetrain as I didn't want to mess with that at this time. Hopefully this weekend I can drop my old engine and swap parts.


Yeah the gasket was taken care off...
Roller tip rockers (1.53)

and roller chain;

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-29-2005 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post

Alex4mula

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Member since Dec 1999
Here some powder coated brackets and things for bling bling


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Fastback 86
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Report this Post12-29-2005 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback 86Send a Private Message to Fastback 86Direct Link to This Post
Curious why you powdercoated the middle intake plenum when you've got a Trueleo...?
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Report this Post12-29-2005 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Paul PrinceClick Here to Email Paul PrinceSend a Private Message to Paul PrinceDirect Link to This Post
Looks great Alex. I would start with a 35hp shot of N20 and even go with a richer fuel jet just to see where your A/F is on the wideband before going with the full 75hp shot, especially since the new intake flows so much better at higher rpm.........Paul
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Report this Post12-29-2005 03:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for m0sh_manClick Here to Email m0sh_manSend a Private Message to m0sh_manDirect Link to This Post
Be careful with the 272 cam and shaved heads, i hear that it starts getting real close to the valves hitting the pistons.

also, i hope you didnt use 1.6 rockers, cause im told with that cam and those rockers it WILL hit the head.

i may not know what im talking about, but thats just what i heard from other posts.

if those are 1.52 rockers, im sure this motor will be a beast, one horse of a 3.4L motor.

matthew

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post12-29-2005 04:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
Fastback 86; When I powder coated those I wasn't sure I was going to buy it at this time but I just did. That will be for sale soon.

Paul Prince; I'll have an Inovative WB hooked up to it. A 35hp shot is nothing. I did it in the 2.8 and couldn't even feel it. On the fuel jet I'll be cautious and go bigger and then tune it down.

m0sh_man; The machine shop took care to measure everything. The lower intake needed to be shaved too. And the rockers are not the 1.6

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post01-01-2006 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
Couldn't drop my engine this weekend. I wonder why... But here is the powder coated intake. What a difference. Should I put a "Fiero" label on top? Any other idea?




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Report this Post01-01-2006 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scott-WaClick Here to visit Scott-Wa's HomePageClick Here to Email Scott-WaSend a Private Message to Scott-WaDirect Link to This Post
Looks like it's coming along nicely...

Did you contemplate grinding down the welds on the intake before powdercoating?

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Report this Post01-01-2006 10:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rare87GTClick Here to Email Rare87GTSend a Private Message to Rare87GTDirect Link to This Post
Always impressed with your work man!! Keep it up.

Amir

------------------

1 of 2: Factory Maroon/Gray 87 GT 5 spd: 2.8L (Best 1/4 mile: 15.57@87mph, 2.0 60ft)
2 of 2: Ferrari Red 88 Formula/4T65EHD: 97 GTP Motor (Best 1/4 mile: 13.704@98mph, 1.938 60ft)

My CarDomain Site
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Report this Post01-01-2006 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseClick Here to Email exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseDirect Link to This Post

Alex

Are you doing the powder coating yourself ??

If so, good job.

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Report this Post01-02-2006 12:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
Did you keep the stock valve springs? Pushrods?
Did you have any head porting done? Gasket matching?

Looking good!

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post01-02-2006 09:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scott-Wa:
Did you contemplate grinding down the welds on the intake before powdercoating?

I did but I was lazy and let it that way. Also didn't want to compromise the strenght of them

 
quote
Originally posted by Rare87GT:
Always impressed with your work man!! Keep it up.

Thanks Amir. Your cars are awesome too. I guess we are in the same waveband

 
quote
Originally posted by exoticse:
Are you doing the powder coating yourself ??

Yes. Harbor Freight gun and oven with Pendry powder. Very easy and works great.


 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
Did you keep the stock valve springs? Pushrods?
Did you have any head porting done? Gasket matching?

Looking good!

No. I upgraded both of them. No head porting. Only shaved. Intakes are gasket matched.

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Report this Post01-02-2006 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RCRClick Here to Email RCRSend a Private Message to RCRDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Couldn't drop my engine this weekend. I wonder why... But here is the powder coated intake. What a difference. Should I put a "Fiero" label on top? Any other idea?

You could have coated it gray and made some kind of wierd Star Wars walker out of it.

Bob

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 01-02-2006).]

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post01-02-2006 01:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:


You could have coated it gray and made some kind of wierd Star Wars walker out of it.

Bob

LOL! It really looks weird at some angles. I bet Monster Garage could make a wild SciFi motive car with it

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post01-03-2006 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
Tranny was freshened up. I was going to paint it black but I think this will match better with the other silver brackets.

Before..

After

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post01-06-2006 02:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
So here are some steps re-assembling the engine...

Tming chain;

Water pump & balancer;

Pulleys, intake and valve covers


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Alex4mula
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Report this Post01-06-2006 02:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
And this is a mockup with the intake. I think this intake looks nicer than some people think




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Report this Post01-06-2006 02:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedDirect Link to This Post
Looks Badass with those headers and the intake. the tubular look will never get old.
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Report this Post01-06-2006 03:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToonTownfieroClick Here to visit ToonTownfiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to ToonTownfieroDirect Link to This Post
YOWZA!
That looks great.

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Report this Post01-06-2006 03:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post
looks pretty good - look forward to seeing a dyno
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Report this Post01-06-2006 04:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TaurusThugClick Here to Email TaurusThugSend a Private Message to TaurusThugDirect Link to This Post
the mysterious 12 legged octopus... wait.... that doesnt make sense
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Report this Post01-06-2006 04:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post
Very nice. The intake and headers should really wake the engine up.

Edit to add

If you plan on running nitrous, I recomend using a dry shot only. If you use a wet shot before the TB like you did on your previous engine on this one there could be trouble. Looks like the intake is prone to have fuel puddle in the upper section. You could have a nitrous backfire and a significant explosion.

If you want to run a wet shot, go multiport in the intake runners. Only way to ensure you don't encounter a nitrous backfire.

This is a nitrous backfire, not pretty.
Some bad language so might not be work safe
http://media.putfile.com/Z06

[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 01-06-2006).]

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Report this Post01-06-2006 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
Wow! What a video! Why they took so long to use that fire extinguisher?? I was expecting the import to blow up and was the Z06! That was a very bad tune man. To be honest I'm a little worry about those velocity stacks inside and the effect they may have with the wet kit. Will see later on how I handle it.

[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 01-06-2006).]

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Report this Post01-06-2006 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post
The nitrous backfire really has nothing to do with the tune. The intake manifold was full of nitrous and fuel, some combustion gasses could get passed an intake valve and boom.

I want to run a multiport nitrous system on my N*, going to put the injectors as close to the intake valves as possible. My N* intake would also be prone to have fuel puddle in the lower part of the intake, and the fact its a composite intake makes it even worse if I had a backfire.

N*s intake is similar to an LS1, air enters the bottom of the intake and goes 270* around the top of the intake to the head. A single fogger in front of the TB would be a bad idea, fuel would puddle in the bottom of the intake.


I'll get out of your thread now

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post01-06-2006 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by crzyone:

The nitrous backfire really has nothing to do with the tune. ...

I would not bet on that. Many people are using different setups of nitrous succesfully on LSx engines. But some get crazy and don't do their homework. I don't disagree that the intake may be prone to that but each case like that must have a root cause. Now those plastic intakes are bad for backfires. There is a new aluminum LSx intake and one of the selling points is that. Too bad there is none for N* market.

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Report this Post01-06-2006 11:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for m0sh_manClick Here to Email m0sh_manSend a Private Message to m0sh_manDirect Link to This Post
MRJ has a intake that doesnt have velocity stacks in it, maybe you could trade him.

matthew

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Report this Post01-07-2006 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JamesCurtisClick Here to Email JamesCurtisSend a Private Message to JamesCurtisDirect Link to This Post
Is there any way you could post a clearer pic of the velocity stacks inside? I can't really see anything in that pic you posted

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