Believe it or not, there are people that don't drag race their cars... I've been driving for decades and never once been to the drag strip. I couldn't care less about 1/4 mile times.
Point well made. I had a 4.9 and sold it. Its a great cheap replacement for a 2.8 (or 4cyl) that will take you around town happily. For a car that you just need to get from point a to point b, it seems to do a decent job at that.
IP: Logged
07:58 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
I have no aversion to the 4.9. I'm actually glad it caught on as a popular swap. I'd love to see how drivable one would be compared to an L67. Sometimes a little less power is just better when it comes to a streetable daily driver, and I'm sure the sound of the pipes is enough to make you sit a little straighter. Definately something I wish I knew about when I had the 2.8 rebuilt in my very first Fiero.
This thread is such a reminder of how you can not view Pennock's fiero forum for weeks and months and still come back and read pretty much the same thing.
Pete
IP: Logged
11:56 PM
Apr 8th, 2007
86fieroEarl Member
Posts: 2203 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Jun 2002
I used to have a 4.9 and switched to a L 67 swap, The 4.9 is a nice swap as well but after installing a L 67, I will never turn back, My L 67 swap had the same punch off the line as my 4.9, But kept pulling, And when my 4.9 had the automatic my L 67 had a little bit more pull. My L 67 also has a 3.4 pulley and I have never driven a L 67 with a stock pulley, The 4.9 has nice torc, But the L 67 has both, When my car hits 3200rpm thats when the supercharge kicks in and helps this bad boy keep pulling.
All in all both motors will make you happy, But in my opinion the L 67 has the advantage, It also looks a hell of alot better in the fiero engine bay.
The 4.9 will always hold a place in my heart tho ( it was my very first swap)
[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 04-08-2007).]
IP: Logged
12:09 AM
86fieroEarl Member
Posts: 2203 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Jun 2002
The really funny thing is that X still hasn't broken into the 10's YET and some V8 (read as small block chevy NOT and I REPEAT NOT A 4.9) powered fiero's have. I'm all for X and his quest but don't bash , especially when you have vids posted of you getting beat by a certain red corvette that was SBC powered .
------------------ HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: The really funny thing is that X still hasn't broken into the 10's YET and some V8 (read as small block chevy NOT and I REPEAT NOT A 4.9) powered fiero's have. I'm all for X and his quest but don't bash , especially when you have vids posted of you getting beat by a certain red corvette that was SBC powered .
The only V8's to break into the 10's are A: either longitude mounted or B: front engine. Where is the V8's that have transverse mounted engines? Look at the 1/4 miles list. The majority of the fastest fieros are the 3800sc or turbo cars.
This discussion will probably never end, I've already stated that my 3800SC is faster than my 4.9, at least once the RPMs build. I think the point is that speed = $$$$, if you want something faster, you'll have to pay for it. There will always be a faster/better/more efficient transplant, it all depends on the $$ you're willing to spend. It also depends on the application you're putting the car into. If Drag Racing is what's important to you, then go for a SBC transplant, lots of performance parts are available but your car won't go around a corner like it did before. Even the stock Duke and 2.8 are good motors for the right application. When commuting back and forth to work, almost a 100 mile one way trip, I'll take the 88 Coupe with the 4 cylinder Duke motor every time. It is plenty fast enough to get me a speeding ticket and will get the best mileage by far. If I'm auto Xing, then I drive the 4.9, if it's a road rally, then it's the 3800SC. All this bickering is kind of funny, no one transplant is best for all applications. In general, my personal favorite is my 4.9, it does more things better that I think are important and is fun to drive.
------------------ Ron Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all. Some ran the other way.
A . longitudinal . The motor is still in the rear ,where it belongs, so why doesn't that count? B. front engine . Fiero's with engines in front are just rebodied camaro's ,they don't count i'll agree to that.
So in order for the v8's 1/4mile time to accepted it has to be a transverse mounted ? Just because someone used a better transmission doesn't mean they should be outcast from the discussion. The car has a SBC behind the driver and it is a fiero so whats the problem?
When i look at our 1/4 mile database this is the only Fiero i see that is in the 10's.
Al Rupertus: 10.99@133mph FB (355SBC w NOS, Olds Tornado Trans.)
I believe there was one other fiero that was sporting a built th-125 that ran a 10.3 . Anyone know more about that car? There are plenty of grand prix's that are running 10's and faster that are still front wheel drive. So a fiero with a turbo"ed/SC'ed 3800 w/built 4t65hd "should" be able to do it too. It just hasn't been done to my knowledge. . . . . . . yet. ------------------ REMEMBER KIDS 4.9's ARE NOT SBC's
[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 04-08-2007).]
I have a SBC Fiero,so heres an unbiased opinion. Ive driven a 4.9 Fiero, and been given a ride in a sc3800. Both were as stock as you can get them. The 3800 felt a LOT faster......you gotta remember a stock 3800 will be a high 13, low low low 14 second car. A good run in a stock 4.9 might get you a high 14......and of course the 4.9 swap is cheaper. Thats why people do it. Its a great alternative to the stock V6, but unless you're MTA you wont have a supercar beater with the 4.9 without extensive mods.....skip the BS and get a SBC;-)...kidding guys.....not really.
ALOT of people's 4.9L dont run properly because of ecm tuning and /or electrical issues, im convinced of this. that caddy ECM is so damned picky. last time i drove my 4.9L citation, i threw an engien code and it is running much slower, liek it is in limp mode, and i cannot find anything wrong with it, it is probbaly just a bad sensor
IP: Logged
11:49 PM
aaronrus Member
Posts: 870 From: bradenton, FL USA Registered: Nov 2003
Also, you have to take into consideration the driver. One of my best friends has a bone stock 97 GTP, other than having the U-bend deleted (which you dont have on a fiero anyway), and a tune that he did himself, and it ran 13.20 @ 101 mph. This was done with a perfect launch, and perfect traction, on a perfect weather day. We have discussed his car on ClubGP and have decided that his engine is a factory freak for sure. Imagine his powertrain in a Fiero, and you have a 12 second car, bone stock.
no factory freak IMO..hes just lying to you.
IP: Logged
11:51 PM
aaronrus Member
Posts: 870 From: bradenton, FL USA Registered: Nov 2003
Don't be afraid to watch the video a few times, I am sure the corvette guys have seen enough of the video.
And again if the 4.9 is designed so poorly why does a 3800 s/c at 10 psi boost do 13.2 in the 1/4... and the 4.9 at 8 psi boost do 12.2 in the 1/4 ??????? Please don't tell me the 3800 was not running well because it does run very with the rest on the fiero 1/4 mile list. Also (again) the poorly designed 4.9 NEVER had a mechanical break down with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of 1/4 mile runs.
Pete
hahaha, i love you Pete, bust 'em up!
IP: Logged
11:55 PM
Oct 5th, 2007
aaronrus Member
Posts: 870 From: bradenton, FL USA Registered: Nov 2003
We have at our house, an 86SE with a Carbed SBC, an 85GT with an injected 4.9, an 88GT with a stock 2.8, and an 86SE with a stock 2.8 and a 4spd. I rode around in a 3.8SC auto car, a turbo 2.8 ya know what. This is what the dyno numbers don't show. The off idle under 2000rpms power of the 4.9 make it the best daily driver out of the bunch. Starting from 900 rpms or lower, you can simply stand on the gas and instantly there is power. No other Fiero have I ever been in with comparable swap costs even comes close to the low end power and daily drivability of my 4.9 not even the SBC. Don't get me wrong, a well setup SBC or 3800SC will outrun the 4.9 on the track. However for daily drivability the 4.9 is the motor I chose to put in my car. If you have never driven a 4.9 and only go by the dyno numbers from 3000 on up. Ya don't even need to respond. There is a reason this motor is a popular swap into the Fiero, I guess it just pisses some people off that others prefer a a V8 over a supercharged V6.
Damn Dave, you have a monster rating on this forum..
IP: Logged
12:05 AM
aaronrus Member
Posts: 870 From: bradenton, FL USA Registered: Nov 2003
You insult me, post a link to a non working video, and then call me an @ss for not watching a video that you posted a dead url for. You can't spell cares and then you ask why I care about a 2JZ-GTE.
I'm sure you don't care, that's why you drive a 4.9; so you can tell anyone and everyone that you drive a V8, one of the worst designed and produced by GM in my oppinion. But this isn't about the motor, its about you, its about why the motor has a bad name, its about why you begin insulting as soon as someone questions the validity of the 4.9's equallity. Like I said you keep going for the wow factor and ignoring supercars, technology, and advanced enineering all together. Leave the discussion to people who do care about things such as effeciancy and design like Fiero-X and others.
One last quib: "My point about my junk yard turbo is that it can work for little to no money and also be successful and reliable" - This statement is flawed, infactual, and skewed.
I am not returning to this thread- it is garbage and you have more than proved that.
the video works for me, and im posting waaaay after the thread started..
how can you say the 4.9L is one of the worst GM engines? every shop mechanic ive talked to says theyve seen alot less engine failures with a 4.9L than with the N*, not to mention a seville with the 4.9L is faster 0-60 than the N* is, AND it gets better gas mileage..
the N* is 14 years old now and it STILL has common headgasket failures and problems, and it is notorious for them all over the country. My neighbor has an '05 STS with only 33k miles on it, and the head gasket blew on it, and the coolant was fine as well as the water pump. A lot of people liek to try and blame Dexcool for the problem, saying that it eats head gaskets, but honestly, after 14 years, i just dont think they can use that as a scapegoat anymore.
IP: Logged
12:18 AM
aaronrus Member
Posts: 870 From: bradenton, FL USA Registered: Nov 2003
I am sorry this started a war, I didnt mean for it. The reason i ask is because i found a 87 gt with a bad motor for 800 that i am gonna buy and want to swap a cheap engine but be as quick (or quicker) than ls1 fbodies. i want it to be reliable and cost effective but still doable for a rook like me, so thats why i decided on 4.9 or 3.8 sc. i will not be racing on a track but would love to smoke other cars at the stoplights, AND get good fuel economy. so for me 0-60 is a more reasonable way to see which engine would perform in a matter i would enjoy. I say slightly built 4.9 because it seems to be a cheaper engine and swap, so with the few hundred bucks i would have that i didnt if i did the 3.8 sc i could throw at the 4.9. I said mostly stock 3.8 because i doubt i would want to put any more mony into it besides the exhaust, and maybe some headers. I really appriciate the comments but am still not sure wich is a quicker engine from 0-60 based on these posts....
buy the deltacams "drop-in" cam for the 4.9L, it is .480 lift cam, over the .384 of the stock 4.9L camshaft, and it requires no other mods, costs about $120 to have yrou cam reground by them, it will give you about 30Hp over stock, and the 4.9L swap is still significantly cheaper..
IP: Logged
12:25 AM
aaronrus Member
Posts: 870 From: bradenton, FL USA Registered: Nov 2003
Said it many times in the past. It doesn't take the same driver skills to go 1/4 of a mile down a straight line as it does to take a car at the edge of the envelope in to multiple left and right hand turns then into a 180. Sorry guys but it's a whole different set of skills. It also takes a wholely different power train. Thus, the 4.9 does have a wonderful use. As I've said before, there is a 3800SCII sitting right next to the 4.9 in my garage, I chose to run the 4.9 the vast majority of the time. Say what you will. Most folks are defending a choice they have made based on a number of different variables but, they are still defending what they have. I have both and love driving both but, it all depends on what I'm planning on doing as to what vehicle I take. They all have good points.
agreed. even hollywood recognizes that racing in a straight line is boring. look at Fast n The Furious 3: Tokyo Drift. Oh, and I hear that they are upping the stakes in Fast n the Furious 4: they return to Miami and race in Reverse! All the cars are equipped with three reverse gears and only 3 forward gears!
for those of yrou that know me, you realize that this is a joke.
IP: Logged
01:00 AM
Australian Member
Posts: 4701 From: Sydney Australia Registered: Sep 2004
I am thinking the 0-30 would be the same with almost any motor. The 0-60 between these two engines is about which has most power to weight although both the gear ratios stay the same. The quarter mile is where the difference between power should make the biggest difference in gap between cars. Over a longer run the V8 will prove to be faster.
We can all spin it up off the mark so 0-30 will be close. It is all about power to get the thing 30+ moving.
IP: Logged
04:31 AM
PFF
System Bot
Sep 4th, 2008
Fiero4Seven Member
Posts: 23 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Registered: May 2007
This thread looks like its dead, but I figure I would at least come close to answering the original question: 3800SC, 3.4 pulley, VS cam (yes, I realize this is not a stock 3.8), stock auto 4T65E-HD 0-60 Using G-Tech - 4.7 sec 0-60 Using Aeroforce Scan Gauge - 4.9sec
Equivalent 1/4 mile times for this setup range between 13.2 - 13.4
Originally posted by PBJ: I would say 100% your wrong! since you said "any situation"
I had less money in my 4.9 turbo than the 3800 s/c and the 4.9 turbo was 1 second faster in the 1/4 and lifted the frt tires, using the EXACT same transission.
The 3800 s/c with about 10 psi boost did 13.2 in the 1/4 mile The 4.9 turbo with 7-8 psi boost did 12.2 in the 1/4 mile
SO what does that tell you about an engine and boost with the same car and same transmission....hmm.
Please dont get me wrong, I really like the 3800 s/c IMO it is the best swap for the value, but it is not the only swap that HAS performed well.
You can all check out my build thead to see what it cost to build a 4.9 turbo-not that much.
Pete
Pete: You did marvelous things with that turbo 4.9L and have the fastest time on record for that engine in a Fiero. I don't consider this the norm but the exception for a 4.9L. On the other side of things there are loads of 3800SC's running in the 12's a few in the 11's fewer in the 10's and one guy in the 8's (but in a Grand Prix) Your 3800SC times sound like they could have been easily improved with a few simple mods. The point that I am making is that the average 3800SC build should be faster than the average 4.9L build as it is built for high performance. BTW, coming to Carlisle next month. Haven't seen you there in a few years.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I'm all for X and his quest but don't bash , especially when you have vids posted of you getting beat by a certain red corvette that was SBC powered . 
Said it many times in the past. It doesn't take the same driver skills to go 1/4 of a mile down a straight line as it does to take a car at the edge of the envelope in to multiple left and right hand turns then into a 180. Sorry guys but it's a whole different set of skills. It also takes a wholely different power train. Thus, the 4.9 does have a wonderful use. As I've said before, there is a 3800SCII sitting right next to the 4.9 in my garage, I chose to run the 4.9 the vast majority of the time. Say what you will. Most folks are defending a choice they have made based on a number of different variables but, they are still defending what they have. I have both and love driving both but, it all depends on what I'm planning on doing as to what vehicle I take. They all have good points.
