Allrighty then, I have an off the wall question for ALL the subwoofer gods on this forum.... I know it is possible to create a setup like I am about to discuss, as I once read over at ARI's kitcar forum, " If at first you don't succed, throw more $$$ at it"... Ok, with that inhand has anyone every hooked up their subwoofer to be powered from another source outside the car?
Like for example, your camping with alot of your friends, sittin around the campfire doin the proto-typical stuff, well let's say that you have a power cord that can run to the electrical outlet and power your subwoofer and radio like this, has it been done? Documented?
Thanx all for your time! !!!
------------------ Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in.... Enzo Ferrari....
Today they are called garage's, yesterday, they were stable's! Eric Jacobsen....
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04:00 PM
Jun 4th, 2007
pavo_roddy Member
Posts: 4351 From: State with a city named Gotham Registered: Apr 2004
Like for example, your camping with alot of your friends, sittin around the campfire doin the proto-typical stuff, well let's say that you have a power cord that can run to the electrical outlet and power your subwoofer and radio like this, has it been done? Documented?
i used to do that with an car i had back in the 80's, but that was before big amps and stuff. i just had an am/fm cassette with a power booster. i had one of those battery eliminator things you could use with cb radios. i had the car's power to the radio and booster on a plug that was the same as a plug i put on the battery eliminator so i could just plug into which ever i wanted.
but like i mentioned, that was before the big watts you need now so i don't know if one of those eliminator things could handle it.
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10:41 PM
Jun 5th, 2007
cjgable Member
Posts: 1198 From: Fort Worth, Tx, USA Registered: Dec 2001
Pavo Roddy, you can do that. Look for a 12 volt power inverter. It will convert 110 VAC to 12 VDC. Be sure you add up the current you will be drawing before you buy one. Match the current with the RMS power of the inverter. They are used all the time at car audio shows.
where its mounted is nowhere near as important as how its mounted. the key to a good subwoofer is matching a speaker to box to a amp.
Agreed. For most vehicles, you can buy a sub-box from Walmart for $100 and mount it in the trunk with a cheap amp and get some decent "boom" - not the best sound quaility or highest SPL, but usually enough to add that bass missing from the stock stereo system and annoy the neighbours.
Installing a sub in a Fiero presents challenges very different from other vehicles - mostly because of lack of space. You have to keep certain variables in mind in order to build a subwoofer system that will sound good.
What I suggest is this: Preplan the system before buying anything. Planning costs nothing.
FIRST - decide what kind (sealed, ported etc) and where you'll install the sub-box (or boxes). "Make" one out of a cardboard box (find an appliance shipping box). Cut it up with an Exacto knife, tape it together with duct tape, hot glue, whatever, and fit it into the car. If it's behind the seat, it will give you an idea of the seat movement it inhibits. If in the front compartment, you'll get an idea of what needs to be moved, where you can port into the cabin etc. Resize and reshape as necessary. You can now measure and determine what VOLUME of box you have to work with, and what size sub it can accomodate - let's say a sealed box of 0.55 cubic feet behind each seat.
NEXT - decide on your amp, how much power and where to mount it. You may want a 1000watt per-channel amp, but where will it fit?? Find your location and determine the physical size you can install and go shopping for a good amp that both fits and has adequate power. A high quality 250watt amp with great specs will give you better sound than a 1000watt cheapie that has its specs over-rated in it's marketing hype and produces tons of distortion when pushed. The Internet is a great source of information and you can research what amplifier manufactures are truthful and who over-rates their crap. Once you've selected your amp, you'll know how much power you'll have to work with - lets say a 2-channel amp, 250 watts @ 4ohms each channel.
NOW - buy your subwoofer to match your box and amplifier power. Too many people do it backwards: buy a subwoofer "on sale" and now try to make it fit and work, only to realize they bought the WRONG subwoofer.
You know what size box you have and whether an 8, 10, or 12 will physically fit (including depth and magnet size), but also check the sub's specs and verify that it will work in that sealed 0.55 cubit foot enclosure you will mount it in. Also make sure it will work with the power you have. A high-end 1000watt sub will not produce much with only 250 watts going into it. If anything, you'll destroy the sub when you push it with an underpowered amp.
As in our above example, you want a good quality subwoofer that matches what you have: You'd likely want a 10" sub, about 4.5" deep (or less) if mounting behind the seats, that will work in a sealed box of 0.55 cu/ft. It should handle 200 watts at 4ohms and should have a sensitivity of 90db or higher, and preferably be capable of producing 40Hz (or lower) in your enclosure (these are good specs). Again, the Internet will have information and reviews on the subwoofers - which manufacturers make good stuff and who makes crap.
Now you can go shop for the amplifier and subwoofer you've selected and find the best prices at your local store, at an online store, ebay etc.
These sites should help with more specifics and explanations.
Ok I have finished my dual 10 center console box and I will have to say "Its F*ckin SWEET". Now I knew that I was going for sound quality and I was restricted on size so I first picked my sub and amp and then built the box. ALSO I would like to say that my 8's running mid bass in my doors Do Not rattle my door skins or windows even when kicking hard. I personally do not care for the under the dash approach or modifying the stock sub enclosure, First off the stock enclosure was made for that dinky little sub and by adding a bigger one will not make it better but will make it louder. The under the dash box is to close to feet for me to be comfortable for me or my passenger. Behind the seats are nice but you are restricted on room unless your like 5'8 with 2' arms and cutting the firewall is not a good solution to get a couple cubes. Center console is about it to run a ported single 10 or squeeze a 12 in and get a good 1.0-1.5 cu ft for a ported box or .5 - .7 for a sealed box. I am running two bazooka ELw10's in a sealed box with 1.2 cu feet with a fiberglass enclosure. Now I lost a little elbow room but gained compared to my dual 8 box that was ported and I gained a nice blind spot but the shock factor of telling people you squeezed two 10's and 14 other speakers into a Fiero is worth every little bit.
Just wait ...... Custom dash with glove box and center console I am vinyling as I speak to have it ready for tommorows club meet.
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02:47 AM
Aug 11th, 2007
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
I went looking and found my original drawing (below). You made the box much smaller going for 8" instead of the 10.5" I specified at the bottom side. That would make the small volume even smaller and impact sound. Not sure how you could also fit a bigger mag making the box smaller.
Ok, I'm confused, and if this question is stupid, please say so, cause I'm a moron sometimes.
The drawing that had 8.5" didn't add up. It was 8.5", but if you add the 6.5" and the 4", it makes 10.5". If I do the correct one, is it going to make the box stick out more towards the passenger, or will it make it flush with the vertical face of the dash, and the extra 2" goes forward instead of back? If it does stick out, where to I compensate for the altered measurements? Do I take away from the 4" section, or the 6.5" section?
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Aircraft Electronics Technician Second Class AIMD Brunswick (2007-present) Patrol Squadron Ten (2003-2007) United States Navy
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08:51 PM
dvlmn Member
Posts: 223 From: Everett, WA, USA Registered: Jun 2007
I don't think they make them anymre, but Sony came out with 6" powered sub-boxes that are about 3" thick. I don't have the model numbers off by hand. Here is a pic from my Fiero:
They sound quite good. Not going to win you any audio competitions, but they kick nice. I only had one installed for about a year, and it sounded ok. Then I went and got the second one for the passenger side, what a difference. They leave just enough space behind the Fiero seat, and enough clearance for the bass to fill the Fiero cabin.
My 2 cents.
Justin.
------------------ 1986 Pontiac Fiero SE 3.4L | The Fiero Blog (Since April 2000) ----------------------------------------------------------- My Portfolio site | JustinChristie.ca
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09:49 PM
Aug 17th, 2007
pavo_roddy Member
Posts: 4351 From: State with a city named Gotham Registered: Apr 2004
I know I've brought this up before, but I just cannot find the thread nor remember the answer to the question.....
I am pretty sure that I will go kitcar, though I am working out some details that every project manager hates the most.... The BUGET.. You know, that thing that says well you can't do this cuz you only have this to play with.....LOL, Yeah, I am rite there....
OooooooK, well onto my question.... The kit in question would be a ferrari 355, and I really want to do the stretch version even if it takes longer to accomplish, I think it looks the best of the 2....... But anyways, the stretch requires a 3 inch one, and the best way to do it, and the safest actually is moving the cradle back them 3 inches... WHICH means that this fiero would have roughly 3 more inches to play with BEHIND the seats....... See where I am going? We all know that the massage would be welcome driving our little cars, with them VERY comfy seats 'n all....
So, would having this extra 3 inches to play with, allow for a flush mounted box and sub, within the firewall?
I know that there is a fuel line (?) or something behind the drivers seat, within the firewall, I know that already.... Could you possibly move this something, extend it somehow, and remount it say in the middle of the subs, there is that extra 3 inches ya know, Or is it fire sensetive? Yikes!!
I still love the idea of having a front mounted sub, it's just that if the subs could be mounted the way I am talkin bout, then there would be room to mount a 20 gallon fuel cell up front, and go with a flat floor designed center counsel, maybe on that last one though...... All the plans to do this aren't even finalized yet either...... That DANG buget thingy!!!!!
So what do all youz sound deciples think on this kinda setup??
------------------ Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in.... Enzo Ferrari....
Today they are called garage's, yesterday, they were stable's! Eric Jacobsen....
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10:12 AM
PFF
System Bot
Bradester Member
Posts: 236 From: Sherwood, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2005
then there would be room to mount a 20 gallon fuel cell up front, and go with a flat floor designed center counsel, maybe on that last one though......
If I'm not mistaken...the raised center tunnel section of the floor pan in the center console area...is an integral part of the total rigidity of our cars infrastructure.I'm sure deleting this "hump" to gain a flat floor...would make the whole platform relatively unsafe.
And to keep this on topic... I'm running the 8" under the dash sub setup...and I love it. I'm using the space behind the seats for amplifier mount areas.
I'm not saying it can't be done...I'm just pretty sure that there would have to be significant bracing done to compensate for the removal of the center tunnel strength. Go for it.
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02:25 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
As stated, There is no way to state which location is "the best". There are way too many factors to consider.
Everyone has their own preference of how they want their type of music to sound. Speaker brands can sound differently with the same size speakers. Speaker enclosure differences can make the same speaker sound differently in each style of enclosure. Location of the enclosure is more of a personal preference. Do you want it seen or hidden?
I have an 8" Rockford Fosgate running at 170W RMS mounted in a footwell box. On my set-up it works out great. If I were to move up to a 10" woofer, I would probably do the box like Alex shows above.
My advice is to pick a location where you want to mount the sub, then build a proper enclosure for that location. A decent woofer in it's proper enclosure, mounted where you want it, and tuned to your listening preference is the best subwoofer.
where its mounted is nowhere near as important as how its mounted. the key to a good subwoofer is matching a speaker to box to a amp. Altec Lansing computer speaker setups are a great example. 30 watt 5" sub woofer that sound better than most peoples 300 watt 10-12" homemade sub setups. loud =/= sounds good
I would imagine under dash being the best overall spot for quality, but, it maybe tough to geta box to the right size center console seems to close - but some like dat. but, you get all the room you need to make a box of proper size. behind seats - not much room between the dual firewalls - but, you can get stuff back there, its hard to make a box with the proper volume
Ive been trying to shove a 6.5" sub under my dash, just haven't quite got it all worked out yet. Iv been in cars with subs pumping in your ear, and i wasn't fond of the sound.
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12:23 PM
PFF
System Bot
fierosound Member
Posts: 15147 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
Ive been trying to shove a 6.5" sub under my dash, just haven't quite got it all worked out yet. Iv been in cars with subs pumping in your ear, and i wasn't fond of the sound.
While my car is parked for the winter months I decided this would be the best time to brainstorm where to place and amp and sub in my Fiero. My debate is either getting the stock sub box or mounting and 8" in the centre console. I am staring at my centre console at the moment while it sits on my coffee table trying to picture it with an 8" sub mounted. I know enough about car audio to wire up a system, but what my question is, is there anyone out there able to give more feedback on a centre mounted sub? I would like to keep the car closest to stock as possible, so I would prefer to just modify the console rather than purchase premaid custom ones (plus rather not spend over $300.00 on one).
Does anyone know the volume required for an 8" sub? I am nout about to turn this car into a car audio show car, just a little bit of bass and I am quite content. I am yet to find a clear answer if this would in any way affect the ECM being mounted in a slightly modified centre console.
Thoughts?
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10:11 PM
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
Wrong. If the sub's specs call for a sealed .5 cu ft box, putting in a bar fridge sized ported box won't perform properly. Sure it will still make noise. That's why you figure out what kind and size of box you can manage to fit in there and THEN buy the sub you need - not the other way around.
This is the absolute BEST advice to follow...
quote
Originally posted by civicduty13:
i guess i have a sitaution that needs a lil answering also then. I have a single solo l7 10 id like to put in the footwell on the passenger side. The shop that I talked to said a custom box would be 175ish covered in my choice of fabric and designed for the l7. Is that a bad price? also, with the placement of the sub in the footwell, they told me that the bass waves will have more area to travel for better reproduction of the sound. Any thoughts or comments on that?
I didn't take the time to read every single post, but I read most of them, and then decided to offer my 2 cents' up. My best friend & I have both worked in stereo installation shops. He has 4 1st place trophies, several 2nd & 3rd, and I have 2 1st placers, etc. The enclosure & subwoofer matching is the key element in any design. For 99% of the systems out there, I can take half of their equipment, redesign it, and get more gain than they had with all of it. In my friend's '99 maxima, we hit 168dB with a single Diamond Audio 15" sub. Last year, Allan Dante set a new world record at DB Drag, hitting an official SPL of 180.5dB with one 18" sub. The L7 series is an excellent sub, hence the drooling earlier... The specs for the 10 are:
code:
Frequency Response: 24-100k Impedance: 4 Ohm DVC (or 2 Ohm, depending on your specific model number) RMS Power Handling: 600 W Peak Power Handling: 1200 W Mounting Depth: 6.25" Mount Hole Size: 9 5/16" Sensitivity: 86.8dB << This is very important! Min Recommended Sealed: .66 ft3 Max Recommended Sealed: 1.0 ft3 Min Recommended Ported: 1.25 ft3 Max Recommended Ported: 2.25 ft3
The sensitivity is the SPL (Sound Pressure Level) that the sub alone will output at 1 Watt of power. Without getting too deep, I'll just say that for something to appear "twice as loud", it must be raised by roughly 3dB, and to do that on power alone, the power must be approximately doubled... In other words, 2 Watts to the same sub would produce about 89.8dB, 4 W would be 92.8dB, then 8 W, then 16, then 32, etc. So you can quickly see that power alone doesn't get you to the world record of SPL ratings in the 180's... Which brings us to the whole reason for an enclosure in the first place: gain. Power, resistance (inversely proportional), box gain, & cabin gain are ALL related and should be considered. An enclosure that adds 21dB gain to the sub's output means 21dB you don't have to power with the amp, which comes out to be roughly 64 Watts of power you don't need. Of course, I'm not even going to get into impedance curves, PM me if you want data on that.
So you can quickly see that matching the sub to it's ideal enclosure is going to produce huge gains for you, and believe me when I say you can shatter your windows with the one L7... I've seen it happen in a Civic, and that one was in the trunk, which means he had less cabin gain...
Matching the sub to it's ideal enclosure is usually called tuning it, because you target a specific frequency that the sub performs best at (because of it's impedance curves), and design your box around it. So anyway, the stereo shop that quoted you a price for building the floor box is probably not going to build something greatly matched to the sub, but should flow nicely with the car. You need to make your compromise now to determine where you want to draw the line between looks and enclosure design... There's a member on here somewhere that has some great software for calculating the tuning of an enclosure before you build it, but I can't remember his name... I've read many of his posts, but the name slips my mind. Anyone know how I'm referring to? Anyway, if you can find him, discuss the tuning of the box, give him the sub specs, and he'll give you the dimensions that you need for your box, then you can tweak it and work out a form that fits closely with his box specs, but flows with the car. I imagine you should have plenty of places to map out the airspace needed (once you find it exactly), and then your one sub will straight up embarrass a LOT of people's systems... In fact, I'm sure you could take trophies if you do it right.
for what its worth -- I have one of these and have been impressed, hard to go wrong when they are on sale for 100.00. This little box has alot of boom for its size and cost. Don't get me wrong, your not gonna shake five cars back -- but it adds decent kick. I'd add two, but I'm cheap and have not looked into what splicing two remotes requires....
if you are talking about those cheap BASS brand subs on ebay, don't bother. I have one that I did some testing with and it is total garbage. Very cheap construction and I ended up throwing it away.
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03:11 PM
PFF
System Bot
sjmaye Member
Posts: 2468 From: Hendersonville, TN USA Registered: Jun 2003
I was talking about the Boos Audio models BASS600 and BASS1200. All the reviews I have read have been pretty positive. Just wondered about anyone with a Fiero has experience with these.
As I understand it both these have built in amps. They are self contained. All you need to do is run wiring from power and your head unit's sub out and you are ready to go.
[This message has been edited by sjmaye (edited 02-02-2009).]
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03:36 AM
Feb 3rd, 2009
pavo_roddy Member
Posts: 4351 From: State with a city named Gotham Registered: Apr 2004
Below is an interesting pic, if you were to look at the tunnel, where the gas tank sits, there is a speaker on the pass. side........... Can you do this, or would it interfer with the tank?
Pic:
------------------ Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in.... Enzo Ferrari....
Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.... Enzo Ferrari...
Today they are called garage's, yesterday, they were stable's! Eric Jacobsen....
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11:39 PM
Feb 4th, 2009
fierosound Member
Posts: 15147 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
... if you were to look at the tunnel, where the gas tank sits, there is a speaker on the pass. side........... Can you do this, or would it interfer with the tank?
That's likely a shallow speaker that is mounted to the plastic panel that normally holds the sub amplifier in that area (cruise control module on driver's side). I'm not sure how good it would sound - you don't have much "air" behind the speaker for it to function at peak performance and I doubt he would cut into the tunnel (it would be stupid to do so).
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-04-2009).]
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11:00 AM
May 1st, 2009
pavo_roddy Member
Posts: 4351 From: State with a city named Gotham Registered: Apr 2004
!!!
Neither of my cars had the better sound system.
