I just ordered a screen printing system with paint that is made for metal use. It should be in within the next few days. I ordered balck and red. Depending on how that works out, they have a bunch of other colors to chose from. This will be interesting. I can't wait to try something that doesn't involve me squinting under a bright light and cursing...
PM sent about the badges, more going out in the morning.
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11:36 PM
Feb 6th, 2007
RTNmsds Member
Posts: 1104 From: Woodruff, SC Registered: Oct 2003
Yea, that's a great idea except did you read the part about not being for outdoor use like on cars? I suppose it would work for trailer-queens or if you were going to use them in the trunk. Mounting on the side of the fender wouldn't be as bad as the hood, too though..
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10:33 PM
F-I-E-R-O Member
Posts: 8410 From: Endwell, NY Registered: Jan 2005
Article written by: Terry Morris, Terry Morris Productions, Sept. 2000 Hello all, I have been asked to elaborate on epoxy doming like shown on the key chain I did above.
First a simple explanation, epoxy doming is the effect of placing epoxy on the surface of most anything that has an edge, like labels, cut metal and such, surface tension will keep the epoxy from running off the edge of the item, that is until it's mass exceeds the strength of the surface tension, when the epoxy hardens it leaves a clear glass like dome covering the item.
To see the effect simply place a penny on a flat level surface, then using an eye dropper put some drops of water on the penny until the surface is covered. Keep adding one drop at a time until it forms a bubble of water on top of the penny. Now, imagine if that water were actually clear epoxy and you let it harden, the penny would then be epoxy domed.
The epoxy used in doming comes in a few varieties:
2 part mix Low intensity UV cure High intensity UV cure
It is not the same stuff as you get at a hardware store, it is made for the main purpose of doming, it hardens to what they call "water clear" and the surface tension is higher than normal so you can get a good size bead or bubble.
All of these have pros and cons.
Two part mixes: These are easy to use, pretty cheap, and are UV resistant, they also come in varying hardness but are usually semi soft. The down side is that you must mix them, you have a limited time to complete work until they gel (between 10-20 minutes) they then take 24+ hours to cure and are not real hard. When I mix up the 2 part stuff I put it in a small 2oz. squeeze bottle that has an .063 Luerlok tip (used in the epoxy business) these are cheap enough that I just toss the whole bottle and tip when done (cost about $1), I mix up 1-2 ounces at a time, 2 ounces will do about 20 key chains.
Low intensity UV cure: These use a standard black light (UV light) to harden the epoxy (takes about 20 minutes), it is relatively easy to use, has an unlimited work time (won't harden until exposed to UV light) and is very hard when cured (like glass). The down sides are that you must work in low UV lighted room (no sunlight or fluorescent light) they cost a little more than 2 part but less is wasted because any unused portion can be used again later (2 part mixes harden no matter what) also they are not UV stable, that is they will turn yellow after 6 months in direct sun and crack in about a year of sunlight.
I like using low cure for items like key chains and labels (for indoor use) as well as name badges and even trophy plates. I also use 2 part mixes for outdoor use items, like on cut vinyl letters for vehicles (this is a whole industry unto itself) and other items that either might get UV exposure or that I want/need to be slightly soft and flexible (you can press your fingernail into it, though it will usually heal itself.
High intensity UV cure: This comes in both hard and soft forms, cures in 15 seconds, and pretty much is like low intensity version. The down side is same as low except the light source is also very expensive ($1,000 to $5,000) and it generates a lot of heat while curing, this means it cannot be used on paper products and things that can't handle quick heating to 200+ degrees F.
In industry the high intensity cure is most often used in high production plants like those that make lapel pins and large quantities of key chains. The 2 part mix is used a lot for automotive emblems and short run promotional items. Low intensity cure is kind of between the other 2.
I have used the gun system, there are two problems with them, the first is they charge way too much for the amount of epoxy you get and when you open a tube you must use it all!! If you leave the tube part full it will go bad in a few days do to exposure to air, also you must use a new mixing tip each time you epoxy, the tip cost money as well and makes the whole thing very expensive.
On average you can figure a tube system will cost you $10 a tube to use, for the same amount of bottle epoxy where you mix it yourself will cost you about $2 or less if you buy in bulk, that is a significant difference. If you have problems with bubbles, you are probably getting these due to humidity, I bought a d-humidifier to help, you need to have humidity of 50% or less, basically the higher the moisture in the air the more bubbles you will have.
Epoxy doming is a great addition to color sublimation, I use it a lot with Mates to make fantastic stickers, I also print on cut sign vinyl (using an Alps MD-5000) and then dome them to make stickers with wild vinyl (metallic, Metal flake, holographic, Pearls....). The 2 part mix I use is a product called 3DV (stands for 3 dimensional vinyl) sold by Sign Mart (800-533-9099 or CA residents 800-696-9470) and the UV resin I use is sold by Deco-Coat 1-888-EPOXIES. Deco-Coat also carries the mix stuff but I tried their cartridge mix system and did not like it, I have not tried there mix by hand stuff.
I've started working on putting a blacklight "oven" together, which really isn't that hard to do, and looking for a good epoxy product to use. There are auto makers who use epoxy on their emblems like this...
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11:10 PM
Feb 13th, 2007
Jarhead 2m4 Member
Posts: 1849 From: Missouri City, TX Registered: Jun 2006
I sent you a PM awhile back which was never answered. Do you have the Supercharged version in black or blue (if you've been able to make the color thing work), or if you have the original black one you made and posted a picture of earlier? I need one now painted or unpainted. What would the total be for what you have sent to 46060?
Thanks, Greg
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04:06 AM
F-I-E-R-O Member
Posts: 8410 From: Endwell, NY Registered: Jan 2005
I realy like the idea of these...seriously considering it.
perhaps 4 for my wheel centres....
But i would realy like some nice pontiac arrow badges too. Can anyone help out a poor Aussie in finding some arrow badges that are certain sizes?
If u know of where to get some i would realy like to hear about it.
If i get the redesigned badge, ill get it in gold and white...Fiero GT maybe...but then i would need gold and red arrowhead badged for the side pillars to match., and maybe gold and red arrows for the wheel centres.
thinking....Hrmmmm....
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04:56 AM
SOULCRUSHER Member
Posts: 1012 From: Waldorf, MD Registered: May 2004
I've been messing with some when the weather cooperates. I don't have a garage to paint in, it's totally out of the question inside a 30' RV.
The one on the left has stained glass window spray paint. I tried it because I thought it would stick to a shiny surface. It does, but stained glass has some rough texture. So does the paint, if it wasn't rough it might work.
The one on the right is gloss black Krylon spray paint. Works pretty well, I'll try a couple of coats of automotive clear on top.
I used a single edge razor blade on both, maybe a little early on the red one, some of the checkers pulled out, other than that the blade worked well, I'll go over the final product with an ex-acto to clean any flecks. I wouldn't try to make any money at it at this time, much too labor intensive. When I get a V8 one done the way I like I'll put it on my car where I think it will look nice, it's a surprise!
------------------ '85 Indy clone 4.9 '78 Toyota longbed, parts runner '89 Bonneville daily driver '87 30' Kit Classic TT, living in it.
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04:32 PM
F-I-E-R-O Member
Posts: 8410 From: Endwell, NY Registered: Jan 2005
Originally posted by SOULCRUSHER: Still haven't recieved mine?! Whats going on??
I just got 2 NEW style silver Fiero GT badges in the mail?? I had already received my 1 silver and 1 gold?? L8R Bruno Mid Engine
I sent them to the wrong address. I sent yours out this morning, with a couple extra in gold as my way of saying sorry.
quote
Originally posted by fastback 88: Still nothing!!!!!
I'm an ass. When I went to put SOULCRUSHER's badges together, I saw yours on the work bench ready to go out. I did the same for you, I put three gold badges in the package and sent them out as well. I'm very sorry for the mix up.
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05:45 PM
PFF
System Bot
Feb 24th, 2007
Maetrix66 Member
Posts: 621 From: Hartland, ME, USA Registered: Nov 2002
I put these on ebay to make it easier, and to build my rating. As far as what I have left, I have all the badges available. I'm pretty sure that I returned the question in a PM, but unlike my email, I can't check a "sent" folder.
I think I need to start a post in O/T asking if anyone knows a CNC person where I can get the billet version made at a reasonable price. I REALLY want to get the billet version made but feel incredibly guilty about the pricing- I guess that comes from seeing so many Chinese billet stuff sold for a lot less. Being realistic, they are in much greater quantities than what I would have made, but that doesn't make me feel any better. I know that there are others out there who would be more interested if I could get the price down.
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11:46 PM
May 7th, 2007
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
I put these on ebay to make it easier, and to build my rating. As far as what I have left, I have all the badges available. I'm pretty sure that I returned the question in a PM, but unlike my email, I can't check a "sent" folder.
I think I need to start a post in O/T asking if anyone knows a CNC person where I can get the billet version made at a reasonable price. I REALLY want to get the billet version made but feel incredibly guilty about the pricing- I guess that comes from seeing so many Chinese billet stuff sold for a lot less. Being realistic, they are in much greater quantities than what I would have made, but that doesn't make me feel any better. I know that there are others out there who would be more interested if I could get the price down.
I would be one of them. Especially if it's relatively the same size as stock, or at least uses the stock mounting holes. (don't feel like doing any more drilling into the bumper)
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08:25 PM
Jul 27th, 2007
DrCPU Member
Posts: 707 From: North Dumfries, On, Canada Registered: Jan 2004
Funny this should pop back up. I've been working on the badges. One of the things that I like that I've tried is giving the raised part of the badges a brushed finish with the polished background which does a lot to bring out the design, as shown below...
This is something that you can do yourself if you're so inclined. - I've been using 120 grit sand paper. The tricky things are: not sanding too much, thereby wearing through to the brass, and the biggest issue is being careful not to scratch the highly polished background.
- If you use a nice new sheet of the paper, and hold it very flat (maybe the best thing to do would be to use some spray adhesive to attach to a smooth board) The idea is to keep it as flat as possible without allowing it to have any opportunity to sneak to the polished background.
- Use nice smooth strokes to keep the grain of the "brushed" effect straight and perpendicular to the sides. Because there are being brushed by hand, there may be some spots that require you to push down in the center or on a corner to get a nice even effect.
I've done a few of these, so I've managed to get pretty good at it. There are resilvering compounds out there that will fix any issues you might have with wear through if you get carried away.
The other thing that I've been working on is an easy and fool proof (no pun intended... well, maybe a little self deprecating humor...) method of coloring the badges. I have one that looks real good, but I'm not ready to show it yet, at least not until I get it perfected. So far though, it looks much better than I thought I could come up with. I'm starting to look for a source for that clear domed stuff to finish the badges off with. This will help to protect them and give 'em a more professional appearance.
Looking at the photos above, I think these might look goo with black enamel in the depressed FIERO area, red in the GT and leaving the Pegasus polished... then again... pretty much any paint that's sold in the major auto stores I'd be able to use on there, so there should be a fair amount of variety of colors available. The one problem I'm having is deciding on a standard red color that best represents the red in the Pontiac arrow.
I'm also still looking for a CNC person that I can work with, as well as someone who can do water jet cutting of bright aluminum. I like that vs stainless steel only because I thing it has a brighter chrome look to it and it can be cut a little thicker while keeping costs down. The idea for this is to make a really decent Pegasus that matches the original design but without the frame and font. I do have one other idea for making these that doesn't involve heavy machinery, I just need to work out the A+B+C+D=E....
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02:47 AM
F-I-E-R-O Member
Posts: 8410 From: Endwell, NY Registered: Jan 2005
Originally posted by DrCPU: Did you get the Chotop ones done? Any updates? Dave
Dave,
I haven't gotten a Choptop one made up yet, though because it is what it is, and the number of badges would be fairly limited, I'm looking for someone as mentioned above to have them made without costing an arm and a leg.
The ideal why to get your brushed look for the raised areas is in the electo-chrome plating process. Talk to your supplier / plater to have them do a buffing-sanding process after the copper layer has been added to the nameplate. After that, the nameplate goes back to the baths for the nickel and chromium layers. If your are still using the guy in Michigan, he should be able to do this. It is more expensive because of the extra handling and labor involved, but it gives you a nicer and more durable finish.
I am still waiting for my V8 Choptop badge. (J/K)............Jeff
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11:01 AM
Feb 14th, 2009
HTXtremes Member
Posts: 345 From: Mansfield, AR Registered: Sep 2007
I'll hit up a few people and share my ideas if they work well.
(J/K)............Jeff
