quote Originally posted by fieroboom: That's my opinion, and I'm stickin to it! Let me know what you think. -Paul

Thanks for info and I agree that the glass patterns do appear to start from the hinge area and move outward.
Since I've ruled out user abuse, I'd rather blame the extreme environmental conditions over the workmanship since the hatch was installed in Sept 2004.
But hey, the project is still envolving and many modifications have been redone and upgraded along the way and I'm hoping to continue that trend.

Ryan

Just a thought. once you repare and determin if its a hinge stress issue or not. you could use a layer of good quality window tinting film over the glass to reflect some of the heat back out of the cabin area. would not have to be a dark tint. I have the formula 1 on my caprice from when i lived in California and you notice a big difference ib the inside glass temperature. does the inside cab of the car get hot when the engine is running. Also i used to do a lot of glazing work (windshields, and we would often find a minor chip someware near an edge that when cold would run like crazy. If this were to happen on tempered glass i could definatley imagine it responding the way it did. could have been nicked when the rear glass hinges were added which would explain the spidering near the hinge. you might look into safty glass between the engine and cab. would reduce heat and would not shatter even if it were cracked. It would also act as an indicator if it were a hinge problem. Just need a little denatured alcohal, a match, a glass cutter, and a belt sander to make your own back glass. Fiero glass is pretty streight which is a nice advantage.

Today I removed the seats and disassembled the driver's seat to bring to an uphostery shop to get an estimate on refurbishing.
The centre cloth is in good shape and could be dry cleaned too I guess.
I do like the carpeted back sides and the map pockets on the originals, so replacing the front leather might be a good way to go.
Not sure what to do about the headrests yet though (speakers and holes) - ideas?
I also have a set of heated seating pads with wiring and switches I got from Bubba to install during the recovering process.

Here are the pics:

I don't know about dry cleaning the red material--as you mentioned in the other thread. For sure, you would want to take it to a very reputable business that is knowledgeable in all types of fabrics and dyes--not just your corner 1 hr dry cleaners. That red material btw, if you could find any new, runs well over $100 per seat. Guard it with your life.

Thanks Maryjane - I might go with they clone covers for now and keep my originals to either refurbish or sell in the future.

Happy New Year everyone

quote Originally posted by Fiero2m8: Not sure what to do about the headrests yet though (speakers and holes) - ideas?

I replaced my factory speakers with Sony Xplod XS-W3521 Coaxial Car Speakers.

http://www.buy.com/prod/son...455.html?dcaid=17988

I wasn't expecting much, but they sounded much better than I expected. I guess I had never heard seat speakers that were not already worn out. I had to cut away a bunch of foam to get them to fit right, but it was worth it.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I replaced my factory speakers with Sony Xplod XS-W3521 Coaxial Car Speakers. http://www.buy.com/prod/son...455.html?dcaid=17988 I wasn't expecting much, but they sounded much better than I expected. I guess I had never heard seat speakers that were not already worn out. I had to cut away a bunch of foam to get them to fit right, but it was worth it.

Thanks Jonathan - they look like 3.5 inch - did you cut the foam since there is no grill on the speakers?

[This message has been edited by Fiero2m8 (edited 01-03-2009).]

quote Fiero2m8:Today I removed the seats and disassembled the driver's seat to bring to an uphostery shop to get an estimate on refurbishing...

Have Mr. Mike quote you a set reusing your red inserts.

quote Originally posted by 30+mpg: Have Mr. Mike quote you a set reusing your red inserts.

I contacted Mr. Mike via email and he claimed that he does not work with used materials...

quote Originally posted by Fiero2m8: Thanks Jonathan - they look like 3.5 inch - did you cut the foam since there is no grill on the speakers?

Yes, I cut away the foam so that it would not be pushing in the surface of the speaker. I was worried about the lack of protection for the face of the speaker, but so far that has not been an issue.

Did you get that estimate yet on the seat covers??

I'm hoping someday to get mine redone, at a cost in the neighborhood of $500 USD. If it's more than that then I'll get the clone covers.

(sorry for posting in that other thread)

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-03-2009).]

Just got the other seat cover removed today from the passenger seat.
I checked the original speakers by wiring them to my home theatre system.
All four worked and sounded suprisingly good so I'll probably leave them alone.
Another option I might go with is Mr. Mikes in Grey leather with a black Indy 500 logo.
As far as refurbishing the originals, I should have a quote for us in about a week.

quote Originally posted by fieroboom: Ok, whew. At first I was worried that as a result of your stretch, there was undue stress at the bottom of the window from the upper frame rails, forcing it to shatter after a period of the frame settling, but now I have a revised theory... Having recently removed my rear glass, and seeing how little steel there is around it, I believe the culprit is your driver side hinge (or maybe both hinges), in conjunction with the stress from the compressed struts of the closed hatch. My basis for this theory is how you have the hinge mounted: And the striations, or shattering pattern of the glass: Note how the general pattern moves outward from the hinge... If you didn't reinforce that upper lip where the hinge is mounted, then I'm not surprised at all that it shattered; in fact, I can't believe it took that long. If you carefully measure the height differences between the roof & hatch (in closed position), I can almost guarantee that the hatch is just a gnat's ankle higher than the roof. Also, you could closely inspect that upper lip, and I'm pretty sure it'll be slightly bent upward where the hinge mounts. With the weight of the hatch, it may not seem like it, but those struts have massive amounts of force, and can cause some crazy stress at their mounting points, as well as the hinges they work with. Have a look at a factory installed set of struts... the mounting points are pretty heavily braced, and so are the hinges (I can show you pics on my Caddy's hood if you want). Anyway, I hope this is all taken in the light of a helpful opinion, because that's how I mean it! Under normal stresses and circumstances, that glass shouldn't have shattered. I'm pretty certain the fact that it shattered is a big clue to a bigger problem, and just replacing it with Lexan isn't going to fix whatever made it shatter, and could produce worse symptoms later on, like a crack in your fiberglass on the roof or hatch. That's my opinion, and I'm stickin to it! Let me know what you think. -Paul

the upper hinge is renforced with 1/8 plate steel the only way the rear window would be broken out like this is if the hinges where not tightend corectly when the glass was reinstalled after the tint was applied that car has been outside all its life when i built it and never broke a window

Thanks Bubbajoexxx.

jscott1 - I got a local upholstery shop (Streamline Auto Upholstery) in Niagara Falls to quote the Indy seat restoration.

Prices are Cdn funds:

Leather $800 for pair
Leatherette $580 for pair

Includes disassembly, shampoo red material inserts, reuse carpeted back and map pockets, punch speaker holes in new leather and reassemble.
If I could buy the new red material, I would go this route with leather for sure since my seat backs are in excellent shape.
I would go for Indy Clones from Mr. Mikes for $366 U.S. over the leatherette option.
He noticed that drivers side of my driver's seat had already been previously changed to vinyl from the original leather but it ripped too.

Anybody willing to sell the new red Indy material for the seats, or is this a pipe dream?

[This message has been edited by Fiero2m8 (edited 01-25-2009).]

Update:

Met up with forum member Skoon on Friday night in Lewisburg, Tennessee to pickup the 88 Front Suspension.
Nice to meet another fellow Fiero Fanatic - makes us feel better knowing that we're not alone (or crazy)

Here's a picture of it in the van - I've got a nice winter project now I can work on indoors!




Thanks Skoon - plus rating for you and good luck with the new Indy project!

Ryan

Well yesterday afternoon, I got the 88 Front suspension disassembled.
I took my time (3 hours) using a lot of PB Blaster and a combination of air and hand tools.
Given that it appeared the shocks as the only things touched over the last 20 years, it went pretty good.

Here is the reference photo I took before starting:




I did snap one of the upper control arm threads but I haven't decided yet whether to reuse them or go with the Held tubular A-arm and coilover setup.
The mounting bolts are 13mm with 18mm nuts inside the crossmember (don't forget to remove the anti-slip plate for the nuts first):




One of the things I like on the 88 is the front sway bar - it's very heavy duty/thick and mounts to the subframe.
The bolts removed easily with no breaking - the 84-87 tend to break of in the spaceframe requiring them to be drilled out.
The rack seems to operate quietly and smoothly, just need to clean it up, replace the tierod ends and get a steering shaft link.
The caliper are complete and look in good shape if anyone wants to buy them BTW:




The underside has the most surface rust, but overall the crossmember is solid and in good condition.
While on this side the bump stops and shock bolts were removed:



Success! The shocks, springs, spindles, upper and lower control arms, steering rack and stabilizer bar removed.
I left the rubber bushings in for now but if I end up reusing the control arms, they would be replaced with polyurethane.
The only other hardware that broke were 3 of the 10mm bolts that hold the rack on as expected, but that will be replaced.
My girlfriend's brother is going to take care of removing the ball joints and sandblasting everything pictured at the Fort Erie Chop Shop.




Here's a good swap writeup thread if others are comtemplating upgrading to an 88 front suspension - be warned it's not a direct bolt in...
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...041015-2-047764.html


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Indy Northstar-Stretch ~ LT1-NOS Roadster

[This message has been edited by Fiero2m8 (edited 02-02-2009).]