Ok, Just to start this off, Do not post in this topic if you decide you want to bash. This is to try and gain back some of AJs respect on this forum. I have been following his topics since he started and hiding behind the scenes as to not get sucked in. I have recently been given the job of making a working prototype for him in a short amount of time so I have been busting my ass trying to get one side done to disprove the naysayers. I am very close, the door and fender needs to come off my daily driver to finish and gettin ready to leave for college has really taken up my time. But it will happen, then it will just be the matter of finding a shop that will reproduce them with tight tolerances so they can work properly. I think it would be easier if we could get blueprints of actual dimensions, but goin off my proto might work too. In the design, I can say that his invention is brilliant and different than any other out on the market. Now that I said that, there are some pieces in his hinge that need attention and the shop that chooses to reproduce it can easily beef it up for daily use. If I do get the prototype together, I will need to use it a lot to find out what parts wear faster than others. The power(strut, actuator) that will be used is going to be heavily taxed and will need to be the strongest available in a compact size. None of this that I am saying should concern any of you, I am just telling you so when you see the prototype, you dont shoot it down. Thats all. I wont be gettin pics without AJs consent cause I signed a nondisclosure contract. I can answer some questions you guys want to know, but no fine details please. So GUYS, shoot away. Drew
Soon to have Koenigsegg doors!
------------------ 1985 GT Fastback Low Original Miles at 41,506!!! 12" brakes- in progress KYB shocks KYB struts
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09:43 PM
PFF
System Bot
1fastcaddy Member
Posts: 618 From: Hays, Kansas Registered: Oct 2004
After all the crap that's been slung our way...I think a little apprehension and skepticism is to be expected.
As they say..."Seeing is believing"...and "The proof is in the pudding".
I for one like the idea of Koenigsegg style doors much better than Lambo/vertical doors. But I also refuse to get my hopes up until I see a working example. And I'm talking about real hinges bolted to a FIERO door working with all body panels attached...not plywood,2x4's and c-clamps.
------------------ --David
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12:01 AM
Saxman Member
Posts: 5151 From: Melbourne, FL Registered: May 2005
Here's what Koenigsegg says about their Koenigsegg CC doors: A geared rotational pivot operates simultaneously with a parallel arm, in an outward arc. Balanced by gas struts the doors lift easily to allow entry, their refined "flying punch" movement setting the stage. The doors require minimal area around them and above the vehicle, giving complete freedom of access to the car in confined areas.
If that confused you, then how about this... they come out as they rotate up easily. These are not scissor doors in the strict sense... although they do have a similar motion.
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12:18 AM
BobadooFunk Member
Posts: 5436 From: Pittsburgh PA Registered: Jun 2003
i have no issues with some one who tries and fails. it sounds like you have a lot better grasp on what it takes to make a part and test it before selling it. the big issue i had with aj is he was trying to sell the hinge with out any testing. if he was planning to do it to his car i would have tried to support him as much as possible.
that said if wish you luck and hope to see some pics soon.
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07:33 AM
1fastcaddy Member
Posts: 618 From: Hays, Kansas Registered: Oct 2004
ok ok, guess it was a little early to be starting a topic on it, but I was kinda excited and felt that AJ deserved the credit. Jscott, I know your gonna need some concrete proof, but trust me when I say that this is in my hands now and I am trying as hard as I can to get a proto done personally for proof. Gotta go to work, Drew
the big issue i had with aj is he was trying to sell the hinge with out any testing.
He was going to be the one that tested it, but I was having trouble getting anyone to do anything around here, so he ended up finishing it for me since he either had everything to do it or had access to it.
The only delay now is him getting a car (either his daily driver or parts car that isnt where he lives) to take the fender off of to finish it, He said he would try to make it a bolt on, but I will only recommend that it be bolted on for adjustments, then welded. Same with any door conversion kit.
The parts he said needed beefed up, I cannot get around here (has to be ordered or special made), So for testing we are using something a little weaker.. but it will still work fine.
As for wearing, I have already thaught of that, I will be using sealed ball bearings for all the moving parts I can, and only one part will wear over time, but should still last the life of the car. But, if you would like to wait for him to test it longer that's fine.
We'll update as soon as we have something, and I will post pics as soon as we have a finished working product.
AJ
Edit: Also notice in the pics above, your wheels will have to be straight opening the door.. Not something that can be avoided without moving it either back or up... and that isnt what the koenigsegg looks like!
[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 05-10-2007).]
Originally posted by AJ7: ... and that isnt what the koenigsegg looks like!
Since those are pictures of a Koenigsegg... my "guess" is that is what a koenigsegg looks like.
unless the prototypes you are making look something like: I wouldn't waste any more time with this, as great as I think they would be for a fiero... the last thing we need is another goofy flimsy ass product to attempt to make fieros look more exotic. IMHO.
I wouldn't waste any more time with this, as great as I think they would be for a fiero... the last thing we need is another goofy flimsy ass product to attempt to make fieros look more exotic. IMHO.
Mine looks nothing like that.. And I'm not trying to make a product for a fiero, I'm making it for any vehicle & trying to make a living. and it wont be one bit "flimsey" It will have a very solid feel.
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11:36 AM
Jarhead 2m4 Member
Posts: 1849 From: Missouri City, TX Registered: Jun 2006
I asked a trick question in the other thread, and the answer about the height gave me a pretty good idea how his hinge is going to work. Don't worry, I have no intentions of trying to steal anything - the vertical door business, nor stealing, are my cup of tea. If he is doing what I think he is, the hinge would be pretty stable and work well.
The problem you are going to have, as things stand, ia that AJ is arrogant and defensive. You're going to have well-financed competition, and people will normally choose reputable companies over a start-up, unless you have outstanding customer service.
Second mistake is your advertising a product before there is one. I know, the design exists and is on the way to becoming a reality. The other treads should have stopped after the initial survey for interest was addressed - with no promises, other than a serious attempt at producing a viable product. This thread shouldn't have happened until there was a Fiero with a door hanging in the air on AJ's hinges.
Finally, this post is not meant to bash you guys, or the idea. I am once again simply trying to offer some basic business wisdom - that I had to learn the hard way. If I didn't like AJ or his hinges, or if I wanted him to fail, I would not open my mouth (fingers?). Even the arrogance comment is not meant to bash. I am trying to tell you how people will perceive you. I like your confidence, but others will misinterpret it.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-11-2007).]
Do you have any Idea what you are talking about? Or what I meant by what I said??
Oh and Todd, I didn't mean for the other threads to turn out like they did, I was just trying to see if there was enough interest here for the first batch, people wanted them so I said I would make them.. kinda went down hill from there.. didnt really want to not reply to people.
And just so everyone knows, The lambo kit is next and will be a bolt on for the fiero. I am hoping this one will get done soon enough to get both kits out this summer, and the Butterfly kit by fall.
For the Koenigsegg hinge.. I am just finishing up a patent search, As soon as I can get pics of the hinge (after it is finished to be put on the car) and parts then I will be able to post pics within a couple days.
The reason for the patent I'm sure none of you here (fiero crowd) would steal the idea, but this is the internet, and another company already used Idea's I posted in the Lambo thread (maybe it was their own idea's, but ya cant be to careful..). And had someone try and steal all of my designs, Which is why I'm being so careful now.
No need to post anything else unless you have a question about it. I dont want this thread turning out like the others, and no I did not tell Drew to post this, I think maybe just like he said, he wanted to get some respect back for me. But we all know that wont happen until there are a few happy customers.
One or both of us will update this thread as soon as the Koenigsegg hinge is done and on a car.
Do you have any Idea what you are talking about? Or what I meant by what I said??
No. I have no idea what i`m talking about
And I think you meant exactly what you said; "... and that isnt what the koenigsegg looks like!"
Unless being out of an English speaking country for 10 months has affected my ability to read and understand English, i`m pretty sure you don`t know what a Koenigsegg looks like.
------------------ Sig by F-I-E-R-O
[This message has been edited by AZStreak (edited 05-11-2007).]
Also notice in the pics above, your wheels will have to be straight opening the door.. Not something that can be avoided without moving it either back or up...
You were talking about the pictures I posted. Then you said, "and that isnt what the koenigsegg looks like!". MEANING: Those pictures posted by AZStreak are not what a Koenigsegg looks like.
------------------ Sig by F-I-E-R-O
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01:15 AM
proff Member
Posts: 7398 From: The bottom of the world Registered: Oct 2004
Since those are pictures of a Koenigsegg... my "guess" is that is what a koenigsegg looks like.
unless the prototypes you are making look something like: I wouldn't waste any more time with this, as great as I think they would be for a fiero... the last thing we need is another goofy flimsy ass product to attempt to make fieros look more exotic. IMHO.
Just so everyone knows.........................................key part V V right there! "Not something that can be avoided without moving it either back or up" Which is not like a koenigsegg door, is it? It is like in the pic, like I described, sorry you cannot understand something so simple. Now please stop cluttering this thread up with that crap.
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01:19 AM
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
This is what I keep trying to tell you dude. You come off as arrogant, and then you go defensive rather than just explain. People read something other than what you intended because of your delivery. If you would have just clarified the misunderstanding in the first place the thread wouldn't have had to go on this detour. You can put it off on the other person all you want but you're the one who needs them. If no one buys your product because they think you're arrogant and unprofessional you suffer, not them. They're going to get what they want regardless. Suck up your pride, step down off your throne, and communicate.
Again, I am not bashing you - that is intended to be constructive critism. Why do I bother? Because you remind me of someone I know... Loads of potential, big dreams, poor people skills.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
This is what I keep trying to tell you dude. You come off as arrogant, and then you go defensive rather than just explain. People read something other than what you intended because of your delivery. If you would have just clarified the misunderstanding in the first place the thread wouldn't have had to go on this detour. You can put it off on the other person all you want but you're the one who needs them. If no one buys your product because they think you're arrogant and unprofessional you suffer, not them. They're going to get what they want regardless. Suck up your pride, step down off your throne, and communicate.
Again, I am not bashing you - that is intended to be constructive critism. Why do I bother? Because you remind me of someone I know... Loads of potential, big dreams, poor people skills.
Completely Agree. Todd sounds very professional and intelligent in every post I have ready in any of the (name here) hinge/door threads. You on the other hand..? Even if a month from now you came out with an amazing product that was 2x better than anything on the market and it was only $100 I still wouldn't buy it from you simply because of the way that you react and respond to people. People skills will get you almost farther than anything else sometimes.
Originally posted by AJ7: Just so everyone knows.........................................key part V V right there! "Not something that can be avoided without moving it either back or up" Which is not like a koenigsegg door, is it? It is like in the pic, like I described, sorry you cannot understand something so simple. Now please stop cluttering this thread up with that crap.
There is a difference between, "and that isnt what the koenigsegg looks like!" AND "and that isn`t what Koenigsegg DOORS look like!".
Two similar sentences. Two DIFFERENT meanings.
quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods: Suck up your pride, step down off your throne, and communicate.
------------------ Sig by F-I-E-R-O
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02:00 AM
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
Originally posted by toddshotrods: ...Because you remind me of someone I know...
I was referring to myself about twenty years ago.
I am still labeled "arrogant" a lot more than I would like to be, but the fact that I try to listen, understand, and communicate with people makes life a lot easier. I wish with everything in me that he would listen and change, so he wouldn't have to take the long road but...
If you really want to salvage your business with this community, check-out and let us keep talking. The next time we hear from you should be, "sorry it took so long but here are the pictures of the working prototypes, on a Fiero!" Then answer the questions "with a smile", even if they seem derogatory. The person who is trying to bash you is not the issue, the one who is listening to how you deal with him is. A great product, delivered with great service, can usher in a lot of healing.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-11-2007).]
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02:47 AM
1fastcaddy Member
Posts: 618 From: Hays, Kansas Registered: Oct 2004
I agree with todd, maybe AJ and a few of the others should try and refrain from posting. I should've know this would go bad, and your not making it any better AJ. I just wanted to know if people had any questions about the hinges, pure and simple. AJ, if you would like, I could kinda speak for you if you wold like so that no more of your posts get misinterpretated. Not trying to take the spotlight, just trying to help. I think todd would agree too. Laters, Drew
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07:26 AM
1fastcaddy Member
Posts: 618 From: Hays, Kansas Registered: Oct 2004
Just so everyone knows.........................................key part V V right there! "Not something that can be avoided without moving it either back or up" Which is not like a koenigsegg door, is it? It is like in the pic, like I described, sorry you cannot understand something so simple. Now please stop cluttering this thread up with that crap.
What I think he meant to say is that the only way the door would not hit a sharply turned tire when opening is to move the hinge higher or back further, which would make the hinge something totally different and not like a koenigsegg. Guys, please just keep the stuff calm. No need to get all worked up over a mistake in working. Thanks, Drew
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07:30 AM
tuner2m6t Member
Posts: 406 From: Adrian, Michigan USA Registered: Nov 2005
Well if it doesn't look or or move like the Koenigsegg doors maybe you guys should come up with a new name for the door. Calling them Koenigsegg doors and saying thats not how they work or look could cause some confusion. Just my 2 cents.
Well if it doesn't look or or move like the Koenigsegg doors maybe you guys should come up with a new name for the door. Calling them Koenigsegg doors and saying thats not how they work or look could cause some confusion. Just my 2 cents.
Posts like this are the ones that make me want to post more... Todd and Drew, I know your right about that but I cant just let someone say this crap and make others think different (someone just skimming through). But yes, it does usually backfire because they like to argue.
"What I think he meant to say is that the only way the door would not hit a sharply turned tire when opening is to move the hinge higher or back further, which would make the hinge something totally different and not like a koenigsegg." Exactly, but I was trying to quit replying to those questions lol
Like I said above, We'll update when it is on a car.
[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 05-11-2007).]
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09:09 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by toddshotrods: The person who is trying to bash you is not the issue, the one who is listening to how you deal with him is.
QFT. Best single piece of advice in this entire thread.
Learn it. Know it. Live it.
My 2 cents: When I think of Koenigsegg doors for a Fiero, I'm thinking about how they open - the movement of the door, not the door shape itself. If it doesn't operate like Koenigsegg doors, I wouldn't be interested. I think nothing looks dumber than the lambo doors because you have to open them out some before you can lift them. That's silly. If they're Lambo doors, they should open straight up like they do on a Lambo.
If that means they can't be done a Fiero, so be it. But if someone could do it, I'd like to see it.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 05-11-2007).]
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09:10 AM
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
That's much better AJ & Drew. You're last posts leaned more towards clearing up misunderstandings, instead of reacting to them.
For the record, standing in the middle of all this, if his hinge design is what I think it is it should work well, and be similar enough to a Koenigsegg in action to satisfy people wanting this type of door hinge. That's all provided they do their homework in developing the product.
They understand that the door must pivot from as low a point as possible to look like the Koenig, when open. That's what AJ tried to communicate, but he typed it with an "internet attitude" and then insulted the person who didn't understand him.
Besides learning good people skills, you're going to have to be bilingual. You can't say things on the internet the same way you would in person, or even on the phone. People can't hear your voice and see your body language. They are therefore left with THEIR interpretation of your words to believe. You have to make sure those words say what you SHOULD be saying.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
