Ok AJ I was trying to be rude and I wasn't wasn't just skimming the thread. I read your other piece of crap thread and I have been following this one. And calling my posts crap you should take a look at your own. I was just simple saying that if thats not how your design looks or works then maybe you should rename it. You obviously had a few people confused and I was just putting it out there so you would know. I wasn't bashing you and I hope you do make a nice product and a few people buy it. I can tell you this I wouldn't buy it from you but if it was just 1Fastcaddy selling it I would. He has been nice and hasn't been rude to anybody and he seems like he has a descent sense of how to seel a product.
Ok AJ I was trying to be rude and I wasn't wasn't just skimming the thread. I read your other piece of crap thread and I have been following this one. And calling my posts crap you should take a look at your own. I was just simple saying that if thats not how your design looks or works then maybe you should rename it. You obviously had a few people confused and I was just putting it out there so you would know. I wasn't bashing you and I hope you do make a nice product and a few people buy it. I can tell you this I wouldn't buy it from you but if it was just 1Fastcaddy selling it I would. He has been nice and hasn't been rude to anybody and he seems like he has a descent sense of how to seel a product.
You did not read what was said right before you posted that, that is why I was referring to your post, it was nothing against you personally. It does work like a koenigsegg hinge, and it will not be called that, but something else.. It is too hard to pronounce and remember for one.. lol
Drew (1fastcaddy) cannot sell them (I know you meant because he was nicer about everything, but he hasnt had to deal with this as much as I have). It is MY product that I designed. I know how to sell a product, and deal with things the right way, but I have been getting tired of everyone bashing, so I did some of my own. I am taking a few different people's advice in this thread now, All I will say now is please stop posting in it if you are going to bash, We will update it when we can.
AJ
[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 05-11-2007).]
That's the motion that you will get from these hinges at a fraction of the price. That is all you need to know on how awesome these hinges will be. Will be working on mounting the doors tomorrow. Be Patient and good things will happen. Laters, Drew
[This message has been edited by 1fastcaddy (edited 05-15-2007).]
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08:56 PM
May 16th, 2007
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Bring it on!!! By the way, its not perfect. Its still in prototype stage and no you cant have it. We are getting though the difficulties withsteady progress. Next is first production piece to ensure enough adjustment. Also, bearings will be added. Still working on the shocks or whatever we are gonna use. Let me know if you think this is what you guys are looking for. And it does clear the fender. I checked, just didnt get the pic of it. It was getting dark. Give me your feedback. Drew
------------------ 1985 GT Fastback Low Original Miles at 41,506!!! 12" brakes- in progress KYB shocks KYB struts
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09:53 PM
LeviM Member
Posts: 169 From: Liberty University Registered: Apr 2006
I am also going to add, the door is a little higher and closer to the car than it will be for final production, the hinge point will be about in the middle of the door/fender. I'll do a quick drawing later of what I am talking about.. notice it does go on the OUTSIDE of the fender.. he did check for fender clearence after the pics were taken, and says it clears with room.
Also, the price is still undecided, making these perfect is going to cost more than I expected with limited production at first. most likely it may go up $200. but realize no one else has anything like this yet(maybe very few one off's) and the price for non-forum members will be over $2000. you will get about half price...
It's nice to see some progress on this door system. I would love to see it with the pivot point moved to the proper location. Right now it just looks like a vertical door. Nothing too special about it. I think once you have the pivot point figured out, it will be more noticable that it IS different. Kudos to you guys for getting things rollin'. Keep up the good work.
So how exactly do these work? Do you open the door out like normal, then pivot it up?
they dont open like normal... they open straight out, the reason for it looking like it is going out like normal is tolerences. (no bearings)
the pic you see isnt even like a vertical door hinge, the door would actually be on the outside part of the fender. (about 7-8" from closed)
I dont think it will be on his fiero again before they go on sale, He said he only has a couple weeks left before he has to go to college? and will be busy, so we'll see... You can see it works!
All that has to be changed is mounting points to get it in the right position, I will recommend welding these, because it does put more stress on the sheetmetal it is bolted to than the lambo hinges do. they will have englarged bolt holes to bolt them on to adjust.
Also, as soon as I get these up for sale, I'll be testing a new lambo hinge. and around the same time I'll be testing a butterfly hinge. been a long time gettin here, but there is alot more to come!
[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 06-05-2007).]
i will give you its better than the clamps and plywood. still along ways off from a sale. how do you plan on testing from here if your point man goes to school?
i will give you its better than the clamps and plywood. still along ways off from a sale. how do you plan on testing from here if your point man goes to school?
it will be tested on an early 90's grand am.(if he cant test it) only parts car I have. and no it wont be a bolt on so it doesnt really matter if it is made to work on a fiero or not. (but obviously it will).
Drew is going to get the first set and put them on his car if possible, depends on how soon we can get them made.
[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 06-05-2007).]
just curious, why photoshop out the part of the image that actually shows the door being held on? Can you take a vid of it opening and going up and down?
------------------ www.FieroDomain.com Over 120 Fiero Links, Articles, Images, Diagnostics
"If any car is both the parade and the rain, it is the Fiero"
just curious, why photoshop out the part of the image that actually shows the door being held on? Can you take a vid of it opening and going up and down?
Just a little feedback... since you are very secretive about posting pictures of this hinge, most will not commit to buying one. Think about it... would you buy something that you saw a blurred out picture of? What if I bought one, and once it arrived it was a huge hulking ugly piece of shotty welded pieces of steel?
My advice is to go ahead and seek your patent (if that's your plan), then once you have it all squared away, post detail pictures and market your hinge. Bear in mind that a patent is not an overnight affair, and you could be months, if not years aways from getting one.
There might be interest, but commitment? Not until more detail is revealed.
Just a little feedback... since you are very secretive about posting pictures of this hinge, most will not commit to buying one. Think about it... would you buy something that you saw a blurred out picture of? What if I bought one, and once it arrived it was a huge hulking ugly piece of shotty welded pieces of steel?
My advice is to go ahead and seek your patent (if that's your plan), then once you have it all squared away, post detail pictures and market your hinge. Bear in mind that a patent is not an overnight affair, and you could be months, if not years aways from getting one.
There might be interest, but commitment? Not until more detail is revealed.
For the patent, I'll have it done as soon as I get pics of the finished product, yest actually it is an over night thing after the patent search is done (oh it is...) just gotta get the pics and send it out, it will only be a provisional, but that will last for a year.
We'll have pics of the hinge on a car working and will try to get video too, it will show the hinge by then also. I wouldnt expect someone to buy something they havent seen, but if everything is what we say (and it is..) then would you buy one? thats all I'm looking to hear right now.
oh, and to the secretive comment, I wouldnt have to be but there is a company that is on this forum that already tried to steal all of my designs, so I have to be secretive. (I'm sure you can figure out what company it is)
[QUOTE] oh, and to the secretive comment, I wouldnt have to be but there is a company that is on this forum that already tried to steal all of my designs, so I have to be secretive. (I'm sure you can figure out what company it is)
I don't know if he stole your idea or not, but at least he is actually showing pictures of his product & if they'll be in production soon I'll be buying from him. Looks like you're going to lose more sales than gain trying to sell a "blob" hinge .
[This message has been edited by PontiacJ829 (edited 06-12-2007).]
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10:30 PM
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
I'm all for the 'Segg hinges, wanted them since I first saw the car on Top Gear. But without seeing some clear shots / video, these look waaaay too much like any typical 90* VDC kit, albeit hanging out away from the car a few inches... (and apparently cheaper $ than most name brand VDC kits) The main attraction to the 'Segg hinges is how they pivot so low to the ground and turn as the door comes out (hence all the fun gears), I think these need to be about 12" lower as a start for people to really bite..
------------------ Bob Williams Working on the next 3800 swap.. Missing the one that worked!
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10:34 PM
Jun 13th, 2007
RCR Member
Posts: 4416 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002
I don't want to be a naysayer, and I applaud the apparent progress you've made on your hinge, but what do you plan on patenting?You have to have a novel approach at something, and if I'm not mistaken, Koenigsegg already has a novel approach on opening the door like this. Just publishing your concepts makes it public domain. Have you looked at the business case? Do you really expect to sell enough of these to even pay for a patent? The prices shown to us is about $4K for the provisional and another $11K for the utility patent and $3K for the patent search (average price across the US). It will take upwards of 3 years for the utility patent and it will only cover the US. What about foreign patents?
So, do you really have a better mousetrap?
Bob
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07:56 AM
PFF
System Bot
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
Just last week I was watching modern marvels, cars something or other, and they reviewed the Koenigsegg car (yes its a whole car not just a hinge )
It was a third party reviewer, not related to any car company, I forget what exactly he said, but it was very close to:
"The most complicated car door hinges in history, a masterpiece of engineering "
But we're going to throw it together in our back yards right boys?
At least theres someone with some resembalance of something thats not stock on here, but I saw how the real doors opened, and these will not work the same,period. You might be better off calling them "something that looks kinda like koenisegg doors but isnt quite.
Still at any rate... Party on
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08:11 AM
Synthesis Member
Posts: 12207 From: Jordan, MN Registered: Feb 2002
I have seen the original Koenigsegg hinges, and sadly, something like that will not even fit our cars. It is such a wide hinge, width being where it mounts to the chassis and then the door from front of vehicle to the back. It is about 4" wide. It would never clear our fenders, and the front of the door does not have enough space from the front edge of the door panel to where the hinges mount on the body of the door.
It is a twin arm setup. As the door pushes out, the twin arms keep the door height level, or as close to level as possible. Also, as it pushes out, there is a gear welded/bolted in place at the bottom pivot of the arm assembly. As the arm assembly moves out, this gear stays fixed in relation to the arm.
So, if the arm is at 90 degrees vertical while door is closed, and 135 degrees when the door is pushed out, the gear also rotates through that 45 degrees of motion. This turns the gear on the forward pivot assembly which is bolted to the front of the door.
I am unsure on the gearing, but with the way it is set up it rotates the door a full 90 degrees forward. When pulling back/down on the door, it forces the arm assembly to move back in towards the car.
Sadly, the rear of the door does not have an aggressive enough forward rake as it moves toward the bottom of the car to allow the door to swing the last few degrees down before it latches.
That is my take on the original hinges.
A different design that would push the door straight out, similar to what is posted here, and then pivot forward would work, but the quality and components would have to be top notch.
I don't want to be a naysayer, and I applaud the apparent progress you've made on your hinge, but what do you plan on patenting?You have to have a novel approach at something, and if I'm not mistaken, Koenigsegg already has a novel approach on opening the door like this. Just publishing your concepts makes it public domain. Have you looked at the business case? Do you really expect to sell enough of these to even pay for a patent? The prices shown to us is about $4K for the provisional and another $11K for the utility patent and $3K for the patent search (average price across the US). It will take upwards of 3 years for the utility patent and it will only cover the US. What about foreign patents?
So, do you really have a better mousetrap?
Bob
man there are a bunch of people that dont know anything about patents on here (obviously) I can get a patent, how do you think other companies got patents for their stuff? most are copied but changed designs, ( only need %10 difference to patent).
for the prices, the provisional (patent pending) is $100. the full patent is $3k for this type of invention. I already did my own patent search, but I will have one done anyway, and for $300. Anyone can do the patent search. Anyone can do all of it.. most of the costs you hear about or see are when people use patent lawyers that charge them way too much because they can.
Synthesis, your right about not being to have the same koenigsegg hinges like on the real car, but it could be done with modification to the body. notice the lambo kits dont work the same either, my koenigsegg kit it will be about the same difference from the real lambo doors (in my case koenigsegg) and the kits. it wont look exactly like the real car, but close enough you still get that look, just a little bit higher than the regular koenigsegg doors. instead of the hinge point being in between middle in bottom, mine will be a little closer to the middle... some cars might even be lower or higher, I can change this but only car specific for now. This one will work on quite a few cars though, so I'll get started on another one (or 5 lol) after I actually have more $$$ to test all of them.
Oh, and if you would want it to work like real koenigsegg doors, I can do that too, easier even.. only problem is you would have to cut the back part of the fender out and mold it to the door, would be a little harder with metal doors....
Anyways, all I want to know is if the kit ends up being how you want it, would you buy it.. if I dont see 10 people saying would soon my posts about it will stop and I will give another forum a deal on it.
edited to change wording.
[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 06-13-2007).]
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09:52 AM
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
It's basically the same as people calling the "traditional" vertical door kits "Lambo doors". The hinges are nothing like real Lamborghini scissor door hinges, and the action is very different (swing out like normal, and then pivot up - compared to real Lamborghini, straight up). The name, in aftermarket products, is just to suggest what the idea behind the product is, and what the consumer will be imitating. The compromises are necessary to keep the costs down, and overcome the physical limitations of a vehicle that wasn't designed for it.
As for patents, he's wasting his time. However brilliant his design may be, the thousands that will be spent on patents would be better served developing and marketing the product. You can buy a lot of advertising on forums, and have a small supply of kits on hand/ready to ship, for $10K. I guarantee that if he has a truly great idea for making Koenig hinges for regular vehicles, someone somewhere will see it, revise the design, and skirt his patent(s). Think about it, Koenigsegg has patents on their design and already people are thinking of ways to do what they did, a little differently to avoid legal implications. Think about how many Lambo kits there are now, based on that one basic design.
I let people see stuff I designed before, and been asked aren't you afraid someone will steal it? I tell them I am not worried about it because I have a ton of ideas. Money to develop them is usually my problem, and if someone wants to spend thousands of dollars to develop and prove my idea so I can just concentrate on producing it I would probably help them. By showing the designs to people, I can prove that I had the idea, under development, first and retain the right to produce the product(s). If they start making a ton of money on my idea, I can always sue and get my percentage (if I can really prove they used MY idea).
AJ has his own ideas about how life and business work, and he has to follow that road until he finds out what's over the horizon. I've been there-done that, and managed to learn a lot over those years.
Last thing. I think he is referring to the "Patent Pending" status. All you have to do is go on the PTO site, do a quick "search", and file for a patent. I think that costs about $150. If memory serves me right, you'll receive a number that can be placed on the product/marketing materials along with the words "Patent Pending". Doing it this way, is a cheap way to scare off amateur thiefs. A real thief (shady businessman) knows what that little label means and how far away you actually are from having a real patent. That won't scare them. Your application will also likely be denied because there was no real search done, and you didn't have the legal expertise to do it right.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
Actually, the only reason I want to get a patent, is so someone cant patent the same thing and then tell me I cant sell them anymore. otherwise, I wouldnt bother with it because they could just copy it anyway and I'm sure they will. I know a few people that have gotten patents and know how everything works with them, one is helping me with mine. I'll have a patent search done before I even try to get a patent, but its not going to cost even $1k. there are many places that will do it for $200-600. then usually $1500-3000 for the full patent, but only $100 for the provisional (I have seen $150 but I think that was going through the website).
and why do you guys care if I get a patent anyway??? bottom line is your not getting any pictures of it until I have one.
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10:40 AM
SAFASTRO Member
Posts: 604 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: Nov 2006
oh, and to the secretive comment, I wouldnt have to be but there is a company that is on this forum that already tried to steal all of my designs, so I have to be secretive. (I'm sure you can figure out what company it is)
and........
quote
Originally posted by AJ7:
how the hell do you think xtreme doors got patents for their stuff? it is STOLEN designs, they just changed it enough to patent it ( only need %10 difference).
Hey AJ7.......So.....are you accusing EXTREME of stealing ALL of your designs here??? I just want clarification on this. I just find it hard to believe that they STOLE ALL YOUR IDEAS, when you haven't shown one single picture of your hinge yet. Could you clarify this for me??
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11:00 AM
DrCPU Member
Posts: 708 From: North Dumfries, On, Canada Registered: Jan 2004
I was hoping that 1fast would lead this thread - as outlined in the first post. I guess this thread going the same route as the other AJ7 threads. Can't ya just leave 1fast do what he wanted do at the beginning?
If it goes to "archives" because of inactivity - then so be it!
Dave
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11:00 AM
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
Originally posted by AJ7: ...and why do you guys care if I get a patent anyway??? bottom line is your not getting any pictures of it until I have one.
You seem to forget that you're on a public forum. We have the right to discuss anything that pertains to the subject matter, and whether or not you need a patent interests us. As much as you seem to think this is "your" thread, it's not. By the format Cliff established, it belongs to the community; and ultimately Cliff. Proof of this is in the fact that when you post a topic anyone on this board can speak freely in it, as long as they conforms to the rules of the forum. The only one that has control over what a person says, outside of the person saying it, is Cliff.
You have to keep that in mind when you post questions on a public forum. You can't control the process from that point.
As for the interest you're seeking. People told you from the very beginning, if you build it they'll come. You haven't built it yet but you keep asking them if they're coming. American consumers are impatient by nature. You can only keep their interest for a short time with the same thing. These threads went on for pages with no evidence. They lost interest. If you search the threads, more than ten people probably told you they would buy them. Eventually people are going to get frustrated and give up, and you're going to blame them. It's not their fault. They told you they would buy it. A few of us told you to stop hinting and come back when you can say it's ready.
Imagine if Wendy's kept coming on here saying they're going to cook a special, hot, juicy burger just for PFF. Months and months go by with no burger. Just a clip art picture of a burger, and a description of how good this special burger will be. How long do you think it will be before the hungry get frustrated and go to Burger King? It may not be a special PFF burger, but it satisfiies the "right now" urge for food that you created. I hope this silly analogy makes sense to you.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 06-13-2007).]
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11:20 AM
Xtreme-Doors Member
Posts: 85 From: London, Canada Registered: Feb 2007
Was really hoping to watch this thread from a far, but to have you claim that our designs are all stolen and everything is completely unacceptable. Show me where the competitors use self lubricating bushings in their designs, or how about the use of aircraft grade aluminum.
While I do understand your frustration of having the heat put on you please be mature enough to defend yourself professionally without trying to throw someone else in, to take the heat off yourself.
Also for those willing to know, designs were never traded but rather talks and he wanted to send contracts to have this all dealt with, but due to how he handled himself we felt it was better not to get involved with him. We never saw any designs and never even advertised any of his ideas. AJ7 you are very very low for trying to claim our company would try to steal your ideas, yet another tactic for trying to take the heat off yourself.
Also when you are willing to throw out accusations of another company be ready to back them up, there are legal consequences for some of the comments you have already made.
) 
