I wish i had something to offer. i felt pretty good about what david said regarding this setup. too bad its not a priority for them. since i have never purchased anything other than oem stuff for clutches and flywheels I don't know what to think of the other companies. It would be nice if we had some kind of guarantee for the flywheels in case they don't fit.
thanks for the update though.
charlie
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12:09 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14228 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Most of you know that I am tring to work with Spec Clutches tring to get a flywheel made to fit on the Northstar and I have 5 to 6 others wanting in on getting one made. However it seems that Spec is giving me the run around! I have been talking with Centerforce and Ram Clutches and they seem they can get the job done and they say they can build a better set up? Any input?
Of course CF and RAM are going to say they can do a better job than SPEC. CF will also tell you they can do a better job than RAM and vice versa. And SPEC will tell you that CF and RAM are junk.
What I do know is that the CF DF201502 clutch (Archie clutch) is barely adequate for my driving style. On a couple of occasions, I've messed up launches and gone to WOT too early. The engine free revved and the CF clutch COULD NOT get a hold of it, even after I brought my foot all the way off the clutch pedal. The only option was to back off the gas until the clutch hooked up. The clutch is barely adequate for the 300ish ftlbs of torque I have now. I would NOT want to try it with a heads/cams engine pushing 350 ftlbs.
Now CF and RAM may be able to make good flywheels, but I'm done with CF clutches. I've never tried a RAM clutch, but never heard anything special about them, either.
------------------ '87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud '90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
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01:34 PM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
I talked to spec today to see what they would tell me. David was on the phone when I called so another guy named Paul said he would ask what the status is. He came back on the phone and said the flywheel was "in development" and they were just waiting for the ring gears.
[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-13-2004).]
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11:43 AM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
I just now as of 3:14 P.M. got off the phone with David from Spec. He has told me they are done getting made and that they are just waiting on the ring gears to come in on Tuesday of next week. He has also told me he is going to make about 15 of them so if anyone else would like to join in later it can be done and that a replacement should any take 2 weeks at the most now they have the pattern set. I told him I was not to happy with thing "time line" and he understood. I have just sent everyone involved an e-mail and I will send a new one here shortly! He does have everyones info. and I have any gave that info. to him and no body else! I will repost here "on Pennock's" after I talk to him next Wednesday. As you can all see I have done everything I could to get this done and have it done right. Talk to you all soon!
------------------ Bobby from NW Indiana 86 Fiero GT, Looking to ad a 93 Northstar soon thespeedshop@sbcglobal.net
[This message has been edited by GSXRBOBBY (edited 07-13-2004).]
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03:46 PM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
why would any one want to hook up a 300 HP ,275 Ft lbs engine to fiero trans. So you can get lots of practice replacing transmissions. you will not break the caddy trans .You can bang the hell out of it & it lives. Fierostar seabee 1678 @hot mail.com 1988 formula 96 N* engine@ trans. 96 camero dash . Dekota Didigal instruments . Konies/with coilovers ,12 inch breaks, 17 inch wheels
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03:14 AM
PFF
System Bot
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
I just hate auto's and the 300 pounds for the 4T80E aint a bonus eather. A 282 is under 100 pounds and the 284 if you can find one is about 120 pounds. For me the ONLY reason to stay with the stock 4T80E tranny is for the smog sticker. After that the tranny goes to E-Bay. I wont get into the "they are/are not strong enough to handle a V8" debate. I just dont want an auto.
------------------
Rickady88GT QuadCam 3.5 V6
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03:37 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14228 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
why would any one want to hook up a 300 HP ,275 Ft lbs engine to fiero trans. So you can get lots of practice replacing transmissions. you will not break the caddy trans .You can bang the hell out of it & it lives. Fierostar seabee 1678 @hot mail.com 1988 formula 96 N* engine@ trans. 96 camero dash . Dekota Didigal instruments . Konies/with coilovers ,12 inch breaks, 17 inch wheels
<sigh> <Here we go again...>
What is your intent in saying this? It doesn't come off very supportive. I should think that someone who owns a Northstar Fiero, and maybe even did his own swap, would be more considerate of the way other people want to do their swaps.
That said, the Fiero transmission can take it just fine. After two years of abuse as a daily driver and a few 12 second time slips, my transmission is still in one piece and shifting better than most on this forum. I've had more trouble with the Centerfarce clutch than with the trans. It's also 200# lighter and loads more fun to drive than a 4T80E.
------------------ '87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud '90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
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09:02 AM
KissMySSFiero Member
Posts: 5541 From: Tarpon Springs, FL USA Registered: Nov 2000
why would any one want to hook up a 300 HP ,275 Ft lbs engine to fiero trans. So you can get lots of practice replacing transmissions. you will not break the caddy trans .You can bang the hell out of it & it lives. Fierostar seabee 1678 @hot mail.com 1988 formula 96 N* engine@ trans. 96 camero dash . Dekota Didigal instruments . Konies/with coilovers ,12 inch breaks, 17 inch wheels
I was a tech at a small Cadi Dealer. There was good reason they had a Trans Specific Mechanic in our shop. All other techs Did Bumper to bumper repair. But they had one out of 14 guys who did nothing but Overhaul transaxles out of the Cadi's. Sure its reliable. But not bulletproof.
I'll take my 5speed any day.
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09:56 AM
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2585 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
On a couple of occasions, I've messed up launches and gone to WOT too early. The engine free revved and the CF clutch COULD NOT get a hold of it, even after I brought my foot all the way off the clutch pedal. The only option was to back off the gas until the clutch hooked up.
The RAM Powergrip clutch does the same thing with a 4.9. I learned to let it fully engage before matting the throttle. Once it's engaged it won't slip at all.
I'm still waiting to see how you guys make out with the flywheels. Keep us updated.
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09:25 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14228 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
The RAM Powergrip clutch does the same thing with a 4.9. I learned to let it fully engage before matting the throttle. Once it's engaged it won't slip at all.
I'm still waiting to see how you guys make out with the flywheels. Keep us updated.
Is that the top-of-the-line "normal" RAM clutch (ie, not special order or custom)? Doesn't sound like it would do any better behind the Northstar than the Centerfarce.
At this rate I'm going to have my new job and be settled in an have spare money for the SPEC package by the time they get done producing it...
------------------ '87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud '90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
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11:02 PM
Jul 16th, 2004
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
86 FIERO GT, I'm sorry if you didn't get my e-mail. As of the other day, they are just about done, we are only waiting for the ring gears to come in, I was told next Tuesday. So sometime after that we should be good to go! They are making 15 so we will have spares or if anyone needs one soon that didn't get in on this I have got them covered also! I was also told they will be able to make replacement flywheels in the future within 2 to 3 weeks at the most now that they have the program already set up. So, how is that, did I do good enough?
------------------ Bobby from NW Indiana 86 Fiero GT, Looking to ad a 93 Northstar soon thespeedshop@sbcglobal.net
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01:35 AM
Jul 19th, 2004
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
I have a book at home that has the bolt tensile strength and sizes for the 4.0L and 4.6L northstar engines. I hope it has the flywheel bolts included. I will be back there on Wednesday and will post the info if you don't already have it.
[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-20-2004).]
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11:12 AM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
I love this book, here is what it says about the flywheel (flexplate) bolts
Dia: M8 Size(MM)Pitch: 1.25 Length: 17mm Drive (socket size) 15mm Property Class (strength) 10.9 Torque: 11 LBS. FT +50(degrees) (i am not sure what they mean by the degrees symbol. temp or angle?) QTY: 8
[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-22-2004).]
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07:57 PM
Jul 22nd, 2004
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2585 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY: I sent him the info I will call him tomorrow to see if that will cover it or if he still needs the bolts.
quote
Originally posted by 86 FIERO GT: The * symbol means after you torque them 11lbs you turn the bolt 50 more degrees. The northstars head and crank case bolts are the same way.
thanks, that's a new one for me.
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03:59 AM
Jul 27th, 2004
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
snoopy these specs are the same size as the pressure plate bolts not the flywheel "flexplate bolts" Dia: M8 Size(MM)Pitch: 1.25 Length: 17mm Drive (socket size) 15mm Property Class (strength) 10.9 Torque: 11 LBS. FT +50(degrees) (i am not sure what they mean by the degrees symbol. temp or angle?) QTY: 8
I am going to go get a bolt from my motor in an hour or so and sent it next day air or something. The flywheels will be able to be shipped as soon as Friday "maybe" if not early next week!!!!
YES I SAID SHIPPED YOUR NOT DREAMING THIS!!!!
------------------ Bobby from NW Indiana 86 Fiero GT, Looking to ad a 93 Northstar soon thespeedshop@sbcglobal.net
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03:16 PM
PFF
System Bot
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
I went out and pulled 1 of 8 from the flexplate and these are small !!!!!!!!! I would guess those specs are right they just don't think so because they are so tiny?
------------------ Bobby from NW Indiana 86 Fiero GT, Looking to ad a 93 Northstar soon thespeedshop@sbcglobal.net
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10:47 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14228 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
There are 8 of them and they call for 10 or 15 ftlbs followed by 45 degrees or so. The Fiero bolts are bigger, but there are only 6, and they have a straight torque spec, rather than torque plus rotation.
------------------ '87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud '90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 07-27-2004).]
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10:57 PM
Jul 28th, 2004
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
I went out and pulled 1 of 8 from the flexplate and these are small !!!!!!!!! I would guess those specs are right they just don't think so because they are so tiny?
Bobby, that's what I thought too when i read the numbers so I got a bolt out and it measured up to what the book said. (i guess that is why they use eight of them???) hopefully they will work ok with the longer bolt required for the flywheels. also, i would imagine the bolts will be subjected to alot more stress on a clutch system versus an automatic trans... my bolts actually say 8.8 MOD on them but i don't know if my bolts are from GM or if they were a later replacement. I would only use the 10.9 bolts that are called for.
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02:53 AM
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2585 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
The world is in big trouble !!!!! I meet and became good friends with this forums biggest smart a$$, KissMySSFiero!!! I brought the Northstar, trans. and some of my tools over to his place. We are going to motivate each other so we can get these motor swaps done?!?!?! He's doing some small engine or small block thing, hehehehehe
Will, I have got you set up also, there is one waiting there for you when you need it! Thanks for your help.
------------------ Bobby from NW Indiana 86 Fiero GT, Looking to ad a 93 Northstar soon thespeedshop@sbcglobal.net
[This message has been edited by GSXRBOBBY (edited 07-29-2004).]
And SPEC will tell you that CF and RAM are junk.
