Archie,

I am 100% in agreement with you on a lawsuit.. You have sufficient grounds since he is using his real name and is publicly degrading yoru business on a public forum.
He shoudl have done other things first.
Archie, You will win this one all the way ion any court of law.. need help give me a call Ill set it up.

hmmmmmm. this seems like its going a little too far. all this name calling/ johny pissed on the play ground crap will get noone anywhere.
taking someone to court ? come on now. everyone has an opinion. there free to state it. it may not be archies fault but he is involved. it seems people need to start acting like adults , stop throwing blame to the other person, and talk this through.
archie, if you are so concerned about your rep. from what i see, your in no way showing it here. if rep is your main concern i would think you would be trying to resolve this issue. even if it isnt your fault.
love my post hate it
this is not facts just how i see it . this post is not in any way set to offend anyone.

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go fast or go home
or just drive it like you stole it

http://www.post-whore.com/pictures/Forum/letgo.jpg

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 11-21-2002).]

I helped out in a very minor way with that Turbo motor. The kit looked like it was thrown together , the welds were a mess and the installation was far from perfect. I would be more upset with the guy who owned the motor then Archie. Several other forum members also saw this motor. We all made jokes about it. We also tried to help the guy out. From what I saw the the turbo kit was not professional looking. This is what I saw with the motor in the car. I have no idea if thats the way it was shipped or if Howard altered it. This is what I saw with my own eyes.

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84 coup 117000 miles
86 Gt Fastback conversion Caddie 4.5 V8 soon
85 Gt

quote Originally posted by 86seyellow: Archie, I am 100% in agreement with you on a lawsuit.. You have sufficient grounds since he is using his real name and is publicly degrading yoru business on a public forum. He shoudl have done other things first. Archie, You will win this one all the way ion any court of law.. need help give me a call Ill set it up.

this would hold up in court it's called Deprevation of character,

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Best of class-HMN- Carlisle 2002

If you are going to sue someone, you don't tell him it's coming..... you slap him with the lawsuit & let him find out that way.

I never said I was going to sue that little jerk...... some of you need to actually read the posts.

Howard is the one who mentioned that 1st.

If I was to decide to sue him, I guarantee that the $2K Turbo motor would look like pocket change compared to what his legal fees would be before he got his 1st. day in court.

However, I never said I was going to sue him.

Archie

i believe the word is "defamation" of character

sorry, my wife is always on my case about spelling

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Monkey
"No matter where I go...There's my car"

*Just arrived...84 Indy 4-spd
87 T-Top GT 2.8/5-spd
87 Hardtop GT 2.8/5-spd
97 Trans-AM WS6 6-spd
91 V8 Monster Miata 5spd
69 Mustang Coupe 302 4spd

Added 2 short movies
members.cox.net/lothe/

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 11-20-2002).]

Archie's a straight shooter, there's no denying that.
He's got a great product that I'd recommend to anybody, and an 800 number for customer service.
I love my 350 Fiero!

I do have a warning for you about Archie though:

When at the go-kart track, don't try to take him on the inside into a corner!

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My Car

quote Originally posted by blackie2m6: [QUOTE]Originally posted by 86seyellow: Archie, I am 100% in agreement with you on a lawsuit.. You have sufficient grounds since he is using his real name and is publicly degrading yoru business on a public forum. He shoudl have done other things first. Archie, You will win this one all the way ion any court of law.. need help give me a call Ill set it up.

this would hold up in court it's called Deprevation of character,

[/QUOTE]

I believe that in an American court of law, one must prove damages in order to win any slander lawsuit. You cannot sue against "free speech" unless you can proove that it has had a negative monetary or deep personal impact on a persons life or business. Did you ever view polical ads. Look at the public name calling, nastiness,negativity, mistruths and accusations in those.....and no one get's sued
If I am not mistaken, right or wrong, Howard was just stating HIS opinion.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I believe that in an American court of law, ................

Geeeeeus krist...... That's all we need now is Dennis giving us a lecture on the law..... we don't need a thread heading off into that subject.

Put a cork in it.

Archie

Archie, I just wanted to let you know that most of us know your business and someone like Howard is not going to steer us away from you and your business. You are a great person in the Fiero community and I just want to say thanks and I appreciate you and your kits. Everyone I have talked to about your kit has had nothing but good things to say. Now all I have to do is save up some ca$h for my V8 Archie kit.

quote Originally posted by Archie: Well guess what...... that begins RIGHT NOW. Cliff, Please don't close this thread yet, I'm not done with this kid. Howard, You owe me an appology, and an across the board withdraw of all of your unfounded comments. No need to edit each one of your posts because I've already made copies of all of them. You can leave the Forum but the responsibility for your actions will remain. Even after reading the testimony of Bob R. You have caused Irreparable damage to my reputation and my business. Those damages are felt today and will be felt for many years to come. The damage you have caused was directed at & has been done in Cook County, IL. You cannot and will not be able to just say, "Oh heck, I'm done with this thread anyway." Archie [This message has been edited by Archie (edited 11-20-2002).]

quote from Howard:The engine is/was lame. No, it has not failed, but stock v6s are faster.

So you're saying that lame means slow and not that the engine had any mechanical problem?

If I remember correctly, there were two posts in the mall about selling the engine. (one got flamed out)
Plus the v8 swap thread that I found the pictures in.
Apparantly howard had to look at one of them.

I do remember from one of those, that Archie had stated that the car ran well, but he was suprised at how slow the car was for being turbocharged. He made a joke about how it was all the more reason anyone would want a v8.

I want to know:
What special sensors were missing from the engine.
If you can see in the pictures where the fuel lines/wiring were cut or if you have any pictures of the hacked up or missing items.

Since you're also complaining about the turbo being too small, couldn't that be the reason why the car was slow? You can see from the pictures that the setup looks home brewed, even if it was done by someone that knows what he is doing, it doesn't mean that it's gonna be done cleanly. And it's evident in the pictures that were available to the public and anyone that was going to buy this thing should have at least seen the pictures on the forum to buy it. Even more so since you bought it before it was expected to be sold.

hahahhahahaha.. Your going to sue him because he doesn't like the business.. Perhaps Walmart can sue some forum members because of the way you slandered them on the forum and caused loss of customers.. I forgot, you HAVE to give praise, and are not allowed to tell others of your experiences.. lawsuits my ass.. grow up, and suck it up, champ..

quote Originally posted by gargoyle: you are nothing but an oozing boil on the anus of a cancerous rodent

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

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I am Hartz.

Hmmmm, well I must say, I've been sitting here at this computer for an hour reading through this whole post and all of its links. I guess this teaches me for not looking here on the forum for 2 days. Anyway.. Howard, I've come to the conclusion that this whole thread was mostly a waste.
I'm not taking sides since i don't know either of you. I understand you were voicing your opinion and everything... but here towards what seems to be the end of the thread... most everyone likes archie even more then they did at the beginning of the thread.... I just thought that was kinda comical. Just a little comic relief I guess.
Matt

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Red 86 SE 2.8

Rate me if I've helped or just if you liked my responce.

[This message has been edited by fiero go fast (edited 11-21-2002).]

I think all of you should take all these bad thoughts and put them away...away in a tiny lockbox, where all bad thoughts go.

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87' Fiero GT 5-spd
84' Fiero SE 2m4 4-spd SOLD

Cliff must be away on vacation.

I'd rather read a thread on "how to read a dip stick" than see anymore of this.

quote Originally posted by Archie: I never said I was going to sue that little jerk...... some of you need to actually read the posts. Archie

Maybe we should take Archie's advice and read the posts. Notice that Archie is just as guilty of flaming and name calling as anyone else. Very mature, Archie.

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: hahahhahahaha.. Your going to sue him because he doesn't like the business.. Perhaps Walmart can sue some forum members because of the way you slandered them on the forum and caused loss of customers.. I forgot, you HAVE to give praise, and are not allowed to tell others of your experiences.. lawsuits my ass.. grow up, and suck it up, champ..

You should probably read the posts more carefully, he never said he was going to sue anyone, other people assumed that's what Archie was going to do.

quote I never said I was going to sue that little jerk...... some of you need to actually read the posts. Archie

quote Originally posted by HummelHund: I think all of you should take all these bad thoughts and put them away...away in a tiny lockbox, where all bad thoughts go.

Here bad thoughts, come here bad thoughts, here bad thoughts...Uh-oh....I think I need a bigger box....

I guess if I bought a kit from anyone, I would expect all the pieces to fit! Not have to cut and hack to get it to fit. The engineering should have been done by the kit manufacturer. Now before someone flames me, I am not pointing fingers at anyone, I am just saying anybodys kit should be done correctly! From what I can see both sides have good points. What I can't understand is why some of the sensors were not included. rg new he was going to either install it or sell it. Archie has done enough wrenching to know what is needed to make an engine run. So in removing the engine this rg guy should have had an idea of what he had to replace or what was needed to make the engine run or had Archie tell him what he should include with the engine when he installed it or sold it. Some one made a point on some of your comments. This is a fourm. We all need each other. I would guess that the ones that were rude and unkind were younger and lacked maturity. I may not agree with Howard, but I'm not going to call him names or throw him out. Come on lets be adults and make this forum grow. My 2 cents worth.

Well, I see threads started on here where someone says, "Hey, check out pics of my new ride" and it get's maybe a full page in a week of a few Ooohs, Aaahs and I don't like it, etc.
Someone comes on here and starts a thread stating this type of thing against Archie or others viewed as Archie is on here and "BLAM!", it goes to 3 pages plus in less than a day.

These are the types of threads that unfortunatley the posting majority come on here and get excited about seeing.
The tech and mall threads have there own world "usually" (there are exceptions of course), but here and in OT these are the threads that those you always see posting on Pennocks live for.

And thats a fact Jack

Steve

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quote Originally posted by Archie: No need to edit each one of your posts because I've already made copies of all of them. You can leave the Forum but the responsibility for your actions will remain. Even after reading the testimony of Bob R. You have caused Irreparable damage to my reputation and my business. Those damages are felt today and will be felt for many years to come. The damage you have caused was directed at & has been done in Cook County, IL. You cannot and will not be able to just say, "Oh heck, I'm done with this thread anyway." and later... If you are going to sue someone, you don't tell him it's coming..... you slap him with the lawsuit & let him find out that way.

Archie,

You are absolutely right. You did not outright say you were going to sue him. But with terms like "already made copies", "irreparable damage", "responsibility for actions", "testimony"...it sure is enough to make a reasonable person BELIEVE that this is your intent.

Don't get me wrong...I'm am not siding with Howard on this one...at all!!! And if and when I ever see him, I will state that to him directly. He screwed up...period! He knows it. He took the wrong avenue of approach for handling this situation. I'm not sure of his age, but this definitely shows me "inexperience." Anyone who's been around for a while knows that you get a better response and can actually build a better relationship by talking directly to the individual involved rather than trying to "gain favor" by bringing something like this to a public forum. In doing so, Howard came off half-cocked and made things worse.

To all the people that are pushing for a lawsuit,

Do you know what's going to happen if this goes to court. WE ALL ARE GOING TO LOSE!!! Personally, even with what is posted here, I don't think Archie would have a chance of winning...and if he did, it would be very slim. Howard certainly doesn't have a case at all so we can dispense about that right away. But we, the other forum members, are going to share in the impact. There will always be a rift, but it would be made even worse by a lawsuit. Then we will have problems with forum members either taking a side, or because of one comment or another, being "placed" on a side and it would just get worse. I think THAT (the rift) would cause irreparable damage to Archie, but by then he definitely wouldn't have a case since everyone and their uncle seems to feel a need to fuel the fire and everyone would share equal responsibility in that.

Howard,

You screwed up, you know you did, you didn't have all of the facts, you didn't do the research, and you learned a life lesson the hard way.

OWN UP TO THAT AND APOLOGIZE!

Archie is not the one you should have been after. You know it, I know it, and everyone else here knows it. You started this, now take responsibility for it and end it! I don't respect you for what you have done here...but I would respect you for taking responsibility and doing the right thing.

Archie,

If Howard does this, please let this drop and let's all move on. I, for one, do not want to see any irreparable damage come from this. His actions and comments are not worth the damage that could be caused here. Right now, there's been some name-calling, a lot of threats, even more opinions, but no real damage. The longer this continues, the more likely we will have real damage...and then we all lose. I for one am very interested in your work with V8's and with the rebodies, enough so that I've set up a direct deposit account for a certain amount of my pay just to fund my future plans. I am also interested in what Howard learned about the turbo, since a turbo Fiero is also in my future. I don't want to be stuck in the middle and I am not going to choose sides on this one.

Please, let's end this.

Just an observation on this thread in general...

There has been a lot of people flaming Howard on this one. The number of people who have rated him has exploded from less than 50 two days ago to approximately the 130 he has now. When he first topped fifty, his red bar was flashing, and yet not it no longer is while his green bar has lengthened. What might this mean? It looks like there must be some people who are on Howards side on this one, or at feel sympathetic towards what happened to him. Although they seem reluctant to jump in on this thread, they are out there. Just thought it interesting that with all this flaming, he hasn't been racking up just negatives over it.

quote Originally posted by Fformula88: Just an observation on this thread in general... There has been a lot of people flaming Howard on this one. The number of people who have rated him has exploded from less than 50 two days ago to approximately the 130 he has now. When he first topped fifty, his red bar was flashing, and yet not it no longer is while his green bar has lengthened. What might this mean? It looks like there must be some people who are on Howards side on this one, or at feel sympathetic towards what happened to him. Although they seem reluctant to jump in on this thread, they are out there. Just thought it interesting that with all this flaming, he hasn't been racking up just negatives over it.

I just noticed that Archies bar has quite a few red on the left side of his bar also. That doesn't mean that he got them all just from this thread, but he has them just the same.

Steve

Good lord I feel dumber for having read this whole thread. OK - I promise never to buy anything from V6TurboArchie ever!

V8Archie, on the other hand...

Hartz

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'84 SC 5.7L V8
'85 SE 3.1L V6 Turbo
Hartz's Toys

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: I just noticed that Archies bar has quite a few red on the left side of his bar also. That doesn't mean that he got them all just from this thread, but he has them just the same. Steve

Mines taken a dive to the left since this tread, oh well.
I said when the rating system started, that I would get my share of -'s cause I tend to piss people off time to time.

You can all be assured that I did not, and don't rate anybody in this tread, or any other flame war treads.
Rating is for an overall contribution to the forum.

when you buy used you have to deal with the problems of it being used so tuff luck
but on the other hand I can never get an answer from archie I understand he is a bizzy man but when you leave 15 messages on his phone and give him you number call me collect I dont care and emails so many I cant count that high with no response
I buy something and need help and get no response I get pissy to but hey it all in the past I just will not deal with

I just caught up on this thread and would like to say that I for one don't "hate" Howard. He did get a bad deal and I feel for him because at one time or another we all get taken. Fact is he paid 2K for a beat a$$ engine that was advertised as being more than it actually was. Now, Archie didn't own the engine, but he did remove it and act as a liason for his customer. Thats not to say Archie did anything wrong, but it does mean he is involved. And maybe Howard has a point when he says he bought the engine in the first place because Archie was the one advertising here on Pennocks. Lets face it, Archie has a good reputation and his name is symonomous with quality. Just something to keep in mind next time you sell an engine for a customer.

Howard: you are being a bit of d!ck so be man and resolve this like one.

Archie: I don't think I would buy a turboed V6 from any of your customers.

Good luck guys, now kiss and make up.

bookster, it looks like you are a couple of days late to be included in this week's Archie Bashing Session.

Stop by next week for the next Archie Bashing Session.

Archie

rotflmao

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go fast or go home
or just drive it like you stole it

geesus

This thread has gone to he11

I for one plan to buy the archie kit when i do a small block swap. From what i have read, and from others in the forum, he is up front with what he sells. People seem to be happy with his v8 swap products.

I strongly believe in buyer beware. Ask questions, and inspect ANYTHING you pay a lot of money for.

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'85 SE v6 auto (daily driver)

'85 GT auto (second owner, low miles)

'88 Red SE (4.9 PFI, 4T60E 4speed O/D trans, Custom cradle) Engine installed! Fastback conversion begins.....the fun just keeps multiplying! (As the bank account shrinks) And no its not a carb under the air cleaner!!!

I dont know why anyone would go through the trouble of installing a used engine in a Fiero.To me that doesnt make any sence.In the future if I decide on engine swap,I will purchase Archie's kit.V8 Achie did not loose a future customer here.

quote Originally posted by Shananigans: I dont know why anyone would go through the trouble of installing a used engine in a Fiero.To me that doesnt make any sence.In the future if I decide on engine swap,I will purchase Archie's kit.V8 Archie did not loose a future customer here.

I agree with this thought. Actually, I wouldn't buy the Archie kit simply because Archie knows how to put the whole thing together. I'd just fork ove the $ and have Archie build it right from the start. Too many backyard Fiero mechanics think they can easily do the install, get bogged down, then blame Archie because some part didn't fit to their expectations. If these things were all so easy, all the V8 Fiero backyard mechanics would have their kits on the market.

quote Originally posted by Hartz: Good lord I feel dumber for having read this whole thread. OK - I promise never to buy anything from V6TurboArchie ever! V8Archie, on the other hand... Hartz

Now that just hits the nail right on the head I think this thread can now be retired and put into the archives.

Reading these flame war post's can cause eye fatigue.....
Cant we all just get along?

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"If you want to blend in, take the bus!"
FOCOSEVA & CFOG-I

quote Originally posted by Shananigans: I dont know why anyone would go through the trouble of installing a used engine in a Fiero.To me that doesnt make any sence.In the future if I decide on engine swap,I will purchase Archie's kit.V8 Achie did not loose a future customer here.

What's this?
You mean to tell me that all these Quad 4, 3800SC, V8 and other engines used in all these engine swaps that we hear about and see being done on here are all brand spanky new engines?

I think what he said was "he cant understand why any one would go to all that trouble and install a used engine". I assume he wouldnt want to spend so much time and money unless it was for a new motor. I can understand that.
Who would do a clutch job and not install a new throw out bearing? Some of us have more time than money. And if its a choice of a new 2.8 or a used 4.9 I can tell you which I would do. I would go for the used 4.9 every time..

But thats my opinion