Years ago I ran a Yuasa bike bat on a 1600 Lotus, but the bat gurus warned that a small bat would not work well on the 2.8. That is probably true for most owners with daily drivers and full electrical usage. I have used a small 17 lb bat for several years on the 85GT. The car is used about once weekly. Low temp here winter is typically 30F. I have held off telling you the make because I can hear the moans. Yep , everstart lawn tractor bat 280 cold crank. I do cater to this little guy by trickle charge. More info is available.
IP: Logged
11:20 AM
PFF
System Bot
jaredmurray88 Member
Posts: 1153 From: wellersburg pa Registered: Mar 2011
Sounds solid in theory but what about swapped cars? I myself would be interested to see if it could hold out on a powermaster to crank a big inch motor that won't see constant street time in the summer
I distinctively remember a few individuals here on PFF - although I can't recall the definitive screen handles of these people - whom have ran those smaller Honda FWD -style batteries that are like half the size of "normal" car batteries. This was usually on a swap to free up some of the space around the battery area.
IP: Logged
11:44 AM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12493 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
Sounds solid in theory but what about swapped cars? I myself would be interested to see if it could hold out on a powermaster to crank a big inch motor that won't see constant street time in the summer
Jared, I don't know what "powermaster" is. A big inch motor like 300+? If you have access to a riding lawnmower lash up the bat and try. My 2.8 is original, 131K miles and starts easily. The cranking is very strong after a 35 mile run to town. But the little guy does not like short runs to the mail box and asks for recharge immediately afterward.
I distinctively remember a few individuals here on PFF - although I can't recall the definitive screen handles of these people - whom have ran those smaller Honda FWD -style batteries that are like half the size of "normal" car batteries. This was usually on a swap to free up some of the space around the battery area.
Fiero84, Mine was for weight reduction. Have one in the NX2000 also, only lightest avail in everstart brand, wt=14 lbs, cost $29 lead acid.
IP: Logged
12:55 PM
jaredmurray88 Member
Posts: 1153 From: wellersburg pa Registered: Mar 2011
If a lil guy turns over a ls4 I'll have to rape a bat off the inlaws riding mower this summer and try it out lol. I have a new bat for a four cylinder but its a heavy sob and would like a lighter one in case I have to yank it out and put it back in for some reason. Never too early to look for lighter stuff when your back is starting to go lol. Especially when the bat is not in a very easy place to get to without an outstretched arm.
IP: Logged
01:09 PM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12493 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
I paid $155 for the small one I am using and it isn't a lead acid battery. Just going with a smaller lead acid battery will result in less cranking power and starting capacity (which may still work if you have a gear reduction starter). Switching to a different battery technology can deliver the weight savings and potentially less drawbacks, but at a premium price.
Here is the sales pitch on the battery I am using:
quote
These Dyna-Batt batteries from Davis Unified Ignition produce more power per pound than any battery on the market. They have the cranking power of wet cell batteries three times their size! This is due to their extremely low internal resistance, which allows for faster, more consistent starting. Dyna-Batt batteries do not have a cold cranking amp rating like other batteries, but have been tested to crank engines with compression ratios as high as 15:1. The reserve capacity of Dyna-Batt batteries is 16 amp hours. They are complete dry cell batteries and can withstand the rigors of high performance and racing environments. Built with corrosion-resistant terminals, they are truly maintenance-free. Dyna-Batt batteries have an excellent storage life and recharge very quickly.
If a lil guy turns over a ls4 I'll have to rape a bat off the inlaws riding mower this summer and try it out lol. I have a new bat for a four cylinder but its a heavy sob and would like a lighter one in case I have to yank it out and put it back in for some reason. Never too early to look for lighter stuff when your back is starting to go lol. Especially when the bat is not in a very easy place to get to without an outstretched arm.
Jared, sounds good. strangely the crank effort of the 24 Inek V air cooled "sounds" about the same as the V6-go figure. Now that the lil bat has worked well I'm eyeing that heavy bat box. I made an aluminum one .for the Nissan. Yep , I am infected with the bikers virus...add lightness. The Fiero is full of heavy thick gauge steel parts which I remove and lighten when I can. Make sure the raped bat is up to snuff with good electrolyte ,etc so it won't disappoint.
I paid $155 for the small one I am using and it isn't a lead acid battery. Just going with a smaller lead acid battery will result in less cranking power and starting capacity (which may still work if you have a gear reduction starter). Switching to a different battery technology can deliver the weight savings and potentially less drawbacks, but at a premium price.
Here is the sales pitch on the battery I am using:
[QUOTE] These Dyna-Batt batteries from Davis Unified Ignition produce more power per pound than any battery on the market. They have the cranking power of wet cell batteries three times their size! This is due to their extremely low internal resistance, which allows for faster, more consistent starting. Dyna-Batt batteries do not have a cold cranking amp rating like other batteries, but have been tested to crank engines with compression ratios as high as 15:1. The reserve capacity of Dyna-Batt batteries is 16 amp hours. They are complete dry cell batteries and can withstand the rigors of high performance and racing environments. Built with corrosion-resistant terminals, they are truly maintenance-free. Dyna-Batt batteries have an excellent storage life and recharge very quickly.
[/QUOTE]
Fieroguru, thanks , I think I remember that brand when I reviewed a few years back.
I paid $155 for the small one I am using and it isn't a lead acid battery. Just going with a smaller lead acid battery will result in less cranking power and starting capacity (which may still work if you have a gear reduction starter). Switching to a different battery technology can deliver the weight savings and potentially less drawbacks, but at a premium price.
Here is the sales pitch on the battery I am using:
[QUOTE] These Dyna-Batt batteries from Davis Unified Ignition produce more power per pound than any battery on the market. They have the cranking power of wet cell batteries three times their size! This is due to their extremely low internal resistance, which allows for faster, more consistent starting. Dyna-Batt batteries do not have a cold cranking amp rating like other batteries, but have been tested to crank engines with compression ratios as high as 15:1. The reserve capacity of Dyna-Batt batteries is 16 amp hours. They are complete dry cell batteries and can withstand the rigors of high performance and racing environments. Built with corrosion-resistant terminals, they are truly maintenance-free. Dyna-Batt batteries have an excellent storage life and recharge very quickly.
[/QUOTE]
Fieroguru, thanks , I think I remember that brand when I reviewed a few years back.
IP: Logged
04:09 PM
PFF
System Bot
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
When the battery in my Fiero developed a dead cell, I replaced it with a Group 51 battery (ala Honda Civic). It was noticeably lighter than the stock battery, and seemed to start the engine just as well. I did the battery swap 5-6 years ago, and see no reason to go back.
IP: Logged
08:25 PM
murrrey Member
Posts: 194 From: westbury new york 11590 Registered: Feb 2008
CA and CCA not same thing... CA spec is 32oF CCA spec is 0oF Big drop in 32 degrees difference
Another spec is "Reserve Capacity in Minutes" Smaller battery can cut Reserve Time.... If you left HL etc on then will come back to dead battery sooner than normal. If Alt goes dead... you have sort time to drive the cars before battery is dead. Having 60+ minutes of Reserve Time is very good when alt is dead... I can drive home w/o any problems and did so this summer when alt died.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Li anything for starting a car isn't a quick swap most cases.
To amplify that a bit, different battery technologies ... liquid electrolyte lead/acid, gelled electrolyte lead/acid, nickel-cadmium (NiCad), nickel-metal hydride (NiMH), Lithium, etc. ... have very different charging protocols. You can substitute a gelled-electrolyte lead/acid battery for the OEM battery in most cars, but it usually requires replacing (or reprogramming) the voltage regulator to do it properly. You absolutely cannot replace the OEM lead/acid battery with a battery based on nickel or lithium chemistry without substantial modifications.
Note that AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries like OPTIMA are still liquid-electrolyte lead/acid batteries, and thus are drop-in replacements for the OEM flooded-cell batteries. On the other hand, gelled-electrolyte lead/acid batteries have a slightly different chemistry, and that usually affects the required charging voltage.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-05-2013).]
Plus the battery is use when engine and alt running... RC spec will matter when engine running many cases.
Examples: Alternator can/will shut down when ARPM is too low... Easy when using "Power pulley." Alt's Amp rating is Max Amps... At low ARPM, engine at low speed or at idle, Alternator make 40-60% less than the rating.
Some old and Many new cars, the battery will go dead when you're in a traffic jam because of this depending on load... AC HL etc is on/off
Example test (On work on major brown outs. Need an Amp meter to do real testing.) And assuming no wire/ground problem... HL on high beam, AC compressor is on, etc, Watch HL output. If dim when w/ engine idle then you have problem(s) above.
(ARPM is not same as Engine RPM) See my Cave, Watt Story
This is all good stuff, but I will relate the worst test I gave my little 14 lb lead acid in my Nx . Last Xmas I went out of town and parked my car at PDX. Temps were 30-35F. I was fearful of no start upon return a week later so I took a spare charged bat with me. Upon return the car fired immediately. So what? So nothing . Only anecdotal evidence for the lunatic fringe who want to lose weight at some risk. As I said this is not for the faint hearted, but has never caused me a problem.
Edit: Since I am retired and only make 40 mile runs once a week I can cater to my lil batteries. A typical week : trickle charge, go to mail box (2 blocks) , trickle charge. Car sits two days . Trickle charge. Run to town . There I typically make 4-5 stops. When I come home the battery is in good shape. What weakens this little lead acid is starting without adequate alt charging, Be warned. There is worry factor here. But I watch the four lead acids I have very carefully. If the charging cycle does not match a normal recovery cycle I look at the electrolyte. (the big 800 cca is sealed unfortunately). Know your bat. I use the Schumacher chargers, one has a sufate warning lite, and supposedly, a desulfate cycle.
Note: I just reread this thread. Perhaps it is relevant to state my original starter is still in use-never been removed. 85 GT. (wood please)
[This message has been edited by hobbywrench (edited 02-10-2013).]
I installed one of the small Dynabatt AGM batteries back in 2010. I haven't had a single issue with it, including cold starts at -20C. I also did the CS130 alternator upgrade at the same time, which has also worked out well.
Originally posted by Heinz_57_Fiero: I installed one of the small Dynabatt AGM batteries back in 2010. I haven't had a single issue with it, including cold starts at -20C. I also did the CS130 alternator upgrade at the same time, which has also worked out well.
Again, Some are fine with small battery and others have problems. Sadly way to many variables to guess who will get problems or not... Just Google it and many report problems for wide range of reasons... Worse, Many have no clue and just blame the battery. Weak Alt, "Power Pulley" etc will kill it.
(People worried about weight... upgrade to gear head starter. New starter weigh is 1/2 of old starter... See my Cave, Starter)
PERFORMANCE DISTRIBUTORS, 2699 Barris Drive, Memphis, TN 38132 They should know US standard terms but you get DYNA-BATT "specs?"
"Reserve Capacity = 16 Amp hours" RC does not = any Ah rating. RC spec is # of Minutes etc... Ah, when listed, is Nominal Capacity usually found on deep cycle batteries.
"Cold Cranking Amps = Not Rated" Why? CA and CCA are standard tests but they can't be bothered to provide the data?
I guess allot of people are swallowing that... The Spec's uses Snake Oil tactics and Very common problem for aftermarket "Performance" products. IOW Not Rated and confusing Specs is to likely hides the product is just a relabeled Motorcycle battery. Look familiar? at Battery Mart and read the specs or see EnerSys Odyssey Battery EnerSys Odyssey is a good brand of battery but Performance Distributors is making claim they own pages can't backup. (EnerSys see Modern Marvels: Lead)
Mr Ogre, Thanks for steering me to "Starter" in your comments, but it would not come up. fyi
By the way "worried about weight" is not the best description for my outlook. I have peeled 200 lbs off the GT without ruining or gutting it. The car thanks me each time and I can feel the difference. For instance you who want to (over?) boost your brakes should feel the difference this weight reduction makes.
[This message has been edited by hobbywrench (edited 02-10-2013).]
Today the everstart died in the Fiero. Would not charge. Replaced it with same. The battery is warrantied for 90 days, Lasted 3 years to the day with lots of attention. This is the U1P-7 model, $31 out the door with local tax.
I don't see the point to a smaller battery unless the car is used exclusively for drag racing and you are trying to get every last ounce of weight out of the car.
I personally subscribe to the theory that you can't have too much battery, so I'm going to relocate my battery up front and eventually run two batteries. That way I can have a lot of reserve time for shows and lights, without encroaching on my starting battery.
Originally posted by jscott1: I personally subscribe to the theory that you can't have too much battery, so I'm going to relocate my battery up front and eventually run two batteries. That way I can have a lot of reserve time for shows and lights, without encroaching on my starting battery.
A bit Harder than many think... Running 1 start and 1 extra/deep cycle to run lights means also need battery isolation. W/o that the deep cycle will fry running starter and both batteries will drain when lights/etc is on. google: battery isolator
IP: Logged
09:45 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
A bit Harder than many think... Running 1 start and 1 extra/deep cycle to run lights means also need battery isolation. W/o that the deep cycle will fry running starter and both batteries will drain when lights/etc is on. google: battery isolator
Absolutely I would have a battery isolator. But your point is well taken... it's actually a bit complicated to decide how to hook up isolator. if you simply isolate them then deep cycle battery can never start the car and it will only trickle charge through the isolator. I would want it a bit more sophisticated where deep cycle can assist if starting battery is low, and I can dump the full output of alternator into the deep cycle if need be.
Originally posted by jscott1: Absolutely I would have a battery isolator. But your point is well taken... it's actually a bit complicated to decide how to hook up isolator. if you simply isolate them then deep cycle battery can never start the car and it will only trickle charge through the isolator. I would want it a bit more sophisticated where deep cycle can assist if starting battery is low, and I can dump the full output of alternator into the deep cycle if need be.
Most "True" Deep Cycle will get damage every time you start the engine. Every Start will cut "run time" on DC bat (Some are "hybrid" that try doing both jobs....)
Really need to (re)wire all sound/lights on DC bat(s) and just run the engine/ecm etc on starter bat. Avoid HL! HL can/will kill any battery.
DC bat is not made to run totally dead... ~9-10v minimum I think. (Technically a Start bat is "dead" at 11.9v) If you try to start the engine w/ DC bat then starter will draw More Amp on low volt battery. (See my Cave, Electric Motors) Starter is worse then rad fan etc... Fractions of a volt will affect starter's amp draw and just 1 weak connection adds to the problem.
Many/Most iso units get full juice to both bats w/ alt in on. Can use low volt cutoff on start bat to save 1-2 starts.
If you are into losing weight do they make a mini starter for a Fiero?
2.5, Yep , getting one thanks to the tip on this forum. The original is still fine at twice the weight. Pursuing country of origin of the $58 SDR 0059 widely advertised on line.
IP: Logged
11:31 AM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
good info on batteries here. http://www.windsun.com/Batt...ep-Cycle%20Batteries I have used a deep cycle to start my 4.3l in the boat. It turns over slower. The Marine "starting" battery turns it over quicker.
IP: Logged
11:44 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
good info on batteries here. http://www.windsun.com/Batt...ep-Cycle%20Batteries I have used a deep cycle to start my 4.3l in the boat. It turns over slower. The Marine "starting" battery turns it over quicker.
Good information here... Cold Cranking Amps is not as important as it used to be...and I'm in Southeast Texas where it almost never gets below 50F anyway. But I don't think I would put a true deep cycle battery in a car anyway... I was thinking more a a blue top marine Optima.
