I am sure that a window switch operated relay is part of the solution but not all of it. just thinking about it, would you not need four relays minimum? one for each direction for each window?
[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 01-26-2009).]
I'm glad my windows are not as slow as jscott's, but slow enough to be annoying. This is something every Fiero owner should buy. I'll be waiting til I can buy 'em.
Wes
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12:26 PM
fierosound Member
Posts: 15147 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
Working on them. Will take a few months or more before I have any to sell. The finished ones will be about 45% - 50% smaller than the samples I sent out for R&D. I'm having a new plastic case made specificaly for this. Takes time to make the molds etc for this case plus redesiging the internals to make them smaller.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
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05:28 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
The finished ones will be about 45% - 50% smaller than the samples I sent out for R&D. I'm having a new plastic case made specificaly for this.
Thanks for the update. The prototype wasn't exactly large. Will the final version be both windows in one box? or one window per box? There are pros and cons to each I suppose. Two in one box would be better for stock setups. The individual units would work better in custom setups.
But either way I'm going to be needing at least another set and a half.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-21-2009).]
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12:55 PM
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
Originally posted by Rodney: Working on them. Will take a few months or more before I have any to sell.
Will they burn up the motors? Are they relay driven? Anything to watch out for/issues you have during R&D (like windows falling off the track, scraping happening faster if the DIY_Stu fix hasn't been done yet)/
I'm getting me a set as soon as available. What is this DIYStu scraper fix thing? My driver window's getting verticla scrapes on it.
Sorry, meant this as an inside story. I guess it didn't come out right on a forum.
DIY_Stu has made replacement Dew wipes and the felt material to keep windows for scratching up more. - So Scraper fix thing.
As far as I can tell those existing scrapes can't be removed. I haven't give up yet. There are a few ways to polish glass and remove some scrapes. I just haven't looked into it yet. (I would love to do that to my front windshield and get the microscopic pits out, so the window can be really CLEAN. (Every car gets these as they age/get driven, this is why no window cleaner can ever make windows PERFECTLY CLEAN. ) )
Think about it this way though. A Lamborghini Miura SV that sold for over $1.000.000 had window scratches in it. We're not in bad company. (then again Miura glass is probably made of "unobtanium" )
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03:20 AM
PFF
System Bot
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
It couldn't be that simple, because that would imply the cause of slow windows is the switch, and we all know that new switches help a little, but not as dramatically as demonstrated here.
Yes, it is that simple, alot of current gets taken up in the switches, even new ones. This is NOT a new idea, they have been making them for other cars for years. And have even be discussed on here Even one of our club members has done it here in Vegas. I have a setup for a set but just havent installed them yet. Just because someone offers a product, does not make them the inventor.
I was going to see what I could do to get my passenger side window work better, takes forever. Now I think I'll just live with it until Rod gets his fix out there.
Still other items left on our Fieros that could work or look beter. I'm also waiting to see if that fellow is going to release his custom console and dash panels. But that won't take much to duplicate if dont get them done.
Yes, it is that simple, alot of current gets taken up in the switches, even new ones. This is NOT a new idea, they have been making them for other cars for years. And have even be discussed on here Even one of our club members has done it here in Vegas. I have a setup for a set but just havent installed them yet. Just because someone offers a product, does not make them the inventor.
Do tell.
Email Rodney, usually he tends to give credit, where credit is due. I saw it a few places on his page. That's one of the many reasons I admire him for.
Hopefully he won't charge too much for his "kit", if it's something simple/straightforward.
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04:06 PM
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
I thought I was going to grab a couple of relays and give it a go. Not so fast... It takes 5 or 6 per window of SPST relays to do what needs to be done depending on how you wire it up. Much better to get what Rodney is making to keep it compact. There are some motor reversing relays out there but I have not seen the ones I would want to use.
Didn't Fie RO do a thing on his "Concept GTR" that uses relays for the power windows? He fit all the components under the center console skeleton.
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04:07 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Yes, it is that simple, alot of current gets taken up in the switches, even new ones.
No it's not that simple. Relays have contacts too and can take up just as much current.
Also, bad switches can cause slow windows, but it's one cause among many. Just replacing the switches is not guaranteed to improve the performance.
Feel free to re-invent the wheel, but I'm here to tell you that Rodney's device works. Let us all know how well the relays work, because in my opinion that is not going to help very much.
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07:23 PM
pavo_roddy Member
Posts: 4351 From: State with a city named Gotham Registered: Apr 2004
Rodney, giving that Jscott1 has 2 switches in the driver's side door, will your product work with this type of setup? With 2 in the drivers door, and one in the passenger door....
------------------ Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in.... Enzo Ferrari....
Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.... Enzo Ferrari...
Today they are called garage's, yesterday, they were stable's! Eric Jacobsen....
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08:08 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Rodney, giving that Jscott1 has 2 switches in the driver's side door, will your product work with this type of setup? With 2 in the drivers door, and one in the passenger door....
I wondered the same... After looking at my drawing, I came to the conclusion that I don't know.
If I had to venture a guess I would say maybe. It depends on the device's internal wiring which I don't have the privilege to witness.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-22-2009).]
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09:01 PM
Feb 23rd, 2009
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
next is to hookup the window relays. Started with the passenger side in case I screw up Woohoo, I made something electrical and it works! Other side works fine too. I have been looking at several spots in the midconsole to fit these relays and wiring, best option is in front of the shifter; theres a lot of empty space there. Figured where to mount the relays to the existing bracket, 3 from this side and one here. It also cleanes up the old mirror wiring around the shifter this way.. ...hmm some tweaking..?
I'm still thinking "Rodney's fix" it totally different though. Probably contains some fancy electronics that prevent the motors from burning out, or something else that runs the motors faster. *waits patiently*
[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 02-23-2009).]
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01:28 AM
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
My bet is the use of a contactor or two! Much smaller than all those relays and works in both directions. ATV's use them for their winches. my .002 Sandy
[This message has been edited by cowans (edited 03-03-2009).]
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11:04 AM
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
My bet is the use of a contacter or two! Much smaller than all those relays and works in both directions. ATV's use them for their winches. my .002 Sandy
How much do contacters cost? Pictures?
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05:12 PM
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
Well, I don't know if Rodney should have posted so much detail in that Ebay listing. Now i know what he did, and can build my own.
For $99. I'd probably learn how to do my own as well. I'm thinking that the Ferrari version is much more expensive than the Fiero version. (everything made for, or by Ferrari tends to be. )
I'm kind of wondering what he would sell the Fiero version for now. Maybe it has additional features beyond the Ferrari version. (like 1 touch down, or something)
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05:15 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
*guesses* Is the device similar (in price, and construction) to the above product by Rodney Dickman for Ferraris?
Similar yes, but that is most definitely NOT what Rodney sent me and what I installed in my car.
In my opinion the Fiero device works on a totally different principle and is not just a set of relays or switches.
As I stated earlier, relays have contacts in them just as switches do so they are not guaranteed to work any better than new switches. The only advantage to using relays over switches is that it allows you to control the windows using small decorative switches that on their own would not be able to handle the current of the window motors.
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10:12 PM
Feb 24th, 2009
cowans Member
Posts: 630 From: Gloucester, Ontario Canada Registered: Aug 2000
Let us all know how well the relays work, because in my opinion that is not going to help very much.
OK, I made one up yesterday, and I just tested it on a parts car. (had to make sure it worked first) before: down 4 secs up 6 secs
after down 3 sec up 4 sec
these windows seem to be fast anyway, and its a parts car. I have a battery in it and a charger at 30amps on too. I need to find a better stop watch than my phone and to test it on more cars. I made mine plug and play no wire cutting. I need to clean up the connections too, I just thew it together. I will try to load the before and after vids when I get home, dial up at the shop sucks.
OK, I made one up yesterday, and I just tested it on a parts car. (had to make sure it worked first)
Interesting data....
but did you test old rusty switches compared to new relays?
And you are right, your windows are fast to begin with. With old rickety slow windows like I had, the relays might help, but I don't think you would see 50% faster times like I did with Rodney's device.
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06:18 PM
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
We tested another car and got about the same results. I think it is the battery charger making them fast. We turned it off and the windows were slower. But still faster with my relay setup than without. But it started to rain so we stoped, I will try more later. Like I said these contacts are ceroded and the relay is old. But even with old and bad connections they make it faster. This is just a rough thing I threw together, I figured if this helps this way then splicing would be even better. I wanted plug-n-play so I could test other cars too. I knew this works as I have seen it before and just cleaning my switches made them faster. The two I tested today are parts cars with I'm sure all kinds of dirt in the tracks, etc...
Similar yes, but that is most definitely NOT what Rodney sent me and what I installed in my car.
In my opinion the Fiero device works on a totally different principle and is not just a set of relays or switches.
As I stated earlier, relays have contacts in them just as switches do so they are not guaranteed to work any better than new switches. The only advantage to using relays over switches is that it allows you to control the windows using small decorative switches that on their own would not be able to handle the current of the window motors.
Easy enough to verify. Do a voltage drop test across your switch and then do the same across a relay. Most relays have beefier contacts than our power window switches--BUT, you would have to find a relay capable of handling the current load. Coolant fan relay comes to mind--hi amps and long run cycle capacity.
If http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW is what it is, then the same thing might be achievable simply by improving the ground circuit for the power windows, since that is what I got out of the narrative on that website.
However, I will be content to wait till Rodney has his on the market.
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11:33 PM
Mar 3rd, 2009
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Here is another test, this time on my car. and remember this is using an old relays and bad connectors.
Before CAR OFF 12 down 13 up
After CAR OFF 7 down 9 up
Before CAR IDLE 5 down 7 up
After CAR IDLE 4 down 6 up
And I do have a power pully and my fan is on with the key, so there is alot of current drain on my car to start, just FYI. I got it down where it is easy to wire up. I will wire my Fiero up, the plug-n-play one I made was just for testing, thus why bad connectors, etc..
Man, you guys had me all excited with this thread so I went out and timed both windows up and down, and both are just under 5 seconds in each direction.
Of course 2.5 seconds would be nice but I think that is asking for too much.
[This message has been edited by TK (edited 03-14-2009).]
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07:50 PM
Mar 22nd, 2009
RUNDLC Member
Posts: 802 From: Elk Grove, California Registered: Jul 2005
Well I am hoping this will help my lambo project! The custom windows and tracks Suck big time! My windows go down alot better than up, which at the moment is almost not at all. If this fix would just get mine to go all the way up under 9 seconds I would be overjoyed.
What's up TK! Hope all is well
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09:40 PM
Mar 23rd, 2009
Formula Owner Member
Posts: 1053 From: Madison, AL Registered: May 2001
Yes, it is that simple, alot of current gets taken up in the switches, even new ones.
Based on my experience with my 77 Kawasaki KZ, I would agree this. One of the popular mods on these bikes is to use a relay to power the ignition. The oem wiring powered the ignition through something like 9 contacts. Before the mod, I was getting something like a 1.5 volt drop from the battery to the coils. After, it was 0.2 volts, but it still didn't improve the starting and/or running as I'd hoped. Another popular mod is to replace the fuse box (which uses glass fuses) with a blade type unit from some place like Advance Auto. At first I tried to clean up all the contacts into and out of the oem fuse box, but it didn't seem to make any difference. After replacing the fuse box with a cheap 4 fuse box from Advance, I had MUCH better power to the whole bike. Better starting, better running, brighter lights, faster blinkers, etc. So I suspect that even with new power window switches, the power for the window motors is still going through lots of contacts, which by now are oxidizing and causing resistance. Cleaning them up and/or replacing them can only do so much good. Powering these circuits with std automotive relays (available anywhere) sounds like a great idea. Given the problems I've had with my KZ, I don't know why I never thought of this.
On the other hand... that's one MORE project for the Formula.
) )
Sorry wasn't clear enough in writing.
