Starting a Duke overhaul on an 84 with 175,000 on her. Still runs pretty good!! but Im getting blow by, oil leaks and theres some rust to take care of.
I
will be: Doing a complete overhaul of an 84 Duke
: Installing a performance camshaft and lifters
: Installing a Holley performance TBI
: Porting the intake manifold to gasket and Holley TBI
: Porting the cylinder head to intake and exhaust gaskets
: Cleaning up the engine bay of rust

Never did this kinda thing before and may just mess up bigtime. But I got a Haynes use of a garage and I am having a go at it.

So far I got the trunk off, the oil out the coolant out. Got little baggies to put screws in, tape and a marker to label stuff. The plan is to take the engine out the bottom.

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

[This message has been edited by White 84 SE (edited 05-17-2009).]

Where did the cam come from?

I did exactly that in 04. It was my first engine build and I had a lot of fun. The Duke is not that hard to build. I would recommend getting a Chiltons manual for the Fiero too. I used both books and somethimes the Haynes was a little weak in areas. Both books coverd about 99% of my questions. Let me know if you need anything I still have a few parts left over. I took a lot of pictures too.

Dwayne

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quote Originally posted by 86fierofun: Where did the cam come from?

I got the FieroStore one 86...which seems rather aggressive as I look at the #s...!?

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

With 175K miles on the engine, are you planning a complete overhaul? If it was me doing it, I wouldn't even bother to measure the bearings and such, I would plan on having the block and crank reconditioned. The crank will probably need to be cut 0.010" on the journals and the block will need to be bored or at least honed out. if it needs to be bored, you're looking at new pistons also. Also, consider having the rods checked, they can be magnafluxed to check for cracks and re-sized or you can get new ones.
The cylinder head should also be checked for flatness and a valve job should be done with new valve springs. New oil pump as well.

quote Originally posted by TONY_C: With 175K miles on the engine, are you planning a complete overhaul? If it was me doing it, I wouldn't even bother to measure the bearings and such, I would plan on having the block and crank reconditioned. The crank will probably need to be cut 0.010" on the journals and the block will need to be bored or at least honed out. if it needs to be bored, you're looking at new pistons also. Also, consider having the rods checked, they can be magnafluxed to check for cracks and re-sized or you can get new ones. The cylinder head should also be checked for flatness and a valve job should be done with new valve springs. New oil pump as well.

....I agree man but I will go through the motions and do all the measuring and such as per Haynes manual...every little thing. Saving time is not going to be a major concern here as it might to a professional. I plan on it being out for about 3 weeks to a month or more if i need to.


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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

[This message has been edited by White 84 SE (edited 05-17-2009).]

quote Originally posted by White 84 SE: I got the FieroStore one 86...which seems rather aggressive as I look at the #s...!?

Neat! You'll have to let me know how it runs (idles and such).

quote Originally posted by White 84 SE: I plan on it being out for about 3 weeks to a month.

Let us know how that works out. Don't forget to post pictures.

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World of Wheels Winners
My 3.4L S/C 87 GT
& My SD4 Indy

there was an isuue with the coneecting rods in 84. I would (at the very least) get them Checked, new Arp Bolts, & resized. I totally agree, 175,000 miles, grind the crank, theres no way the piston to cylinderwall clearances can still be right. sure, you can "re-ring it" & install new standard bearings, & if driven (old lady like) it will last awhile, BUT, with you putting a "hot CAM" in it, it tells me you're going to RUN it ! do it Right the first time , Or you'll be doing it again, maybe having to replace the entire engine the second time. been there, done that.

quote Originally posted by White 84 SE: I got the FieroStore one 86...which seems rather aggressive as I look at the #s...!?

The numbers are advertised duration, not duration at .050" lift. Its actually a very mild cam. Its smaller than the popular "272" V6 cam.

Also, I hope you're not talking about the "85-88" performance cam. Its intended to work ONLY with roller lifters, and will destroy flat tappets.

84 blocks don't have the provisions to fit roller lifters. You can only run the Fierostore "84" cam in an 84 block.

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: The numbers are advertised duration, not duration at .050" lift. Its actually a very mild cam. Its smaller than the popular "272" V6 cam. Also, I hope you're not talking about the "85-88" performance cam. Its intended to work ONLY with roller lifters, and will destroy flat tappets. 84 blocks don't have the provisions to fit roller lifters. You can only run the Fierostore "84" cam in an 84 block.

It's the Fiero Store 84 performance cam and thanks. I can imagine all of the bearings will be replaced. I slightly remember looking at CompCams specs and noticing the lift and duration being less but it's a vague memory. Don't matter I bought it - its going in. I figure I gotta put in new push rods if it's getting new lifters. When I hear about a Duke blowing up it seems to often have to do with the push rods. Perhaps I can ream them oversize? Nah, I'm not gonna guinea pig my Duke. If it needs oversize that's what it will get but only if.

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[This message has been edited by White 84 SE (edited 05-17-2009).]

the problem with them blowing up was NEVER the push rods, they had a batch of bad Connecting rods. they are not god awful expensive, buy new ones.

quote Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: the problem with them blowing up was NEVER the push rods, they had a batch of bad Connecting rods. they are not god awful expensive, buy new ones.

Oh thanks! I am thinking to check them to spec and keeping them if they pass. Bad idea?

Anyway day one is done and I managed to make a dolley and remove everything from the engine except I think a coolant line on the passenger side., oh and a ground on the drivers side. I wound up detaching and labeling all electric from the engine. I can see now that that was a bit more trouble than required. I could have taken it off AFTER much easier. Still it is interesting to find the entire electrical system is contained in one rope like construction wrapping around the engine. Electrical problems in the future might seem much less a mystery now.
Heres a pic of the dolley I made for it. Note the middle beam to support the suspension arms.
With any luck I will use it today and have the engine out in a little while. Might even get to some porting today!
Looks like a storm brewing over here but that wont stop me as the Fiero is in the garage.

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

[This message has been edited by White 84 SE (edited 05-09-2009).]

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: The numbers are advertised duration, not duration at .050" lift. Its actually a very mild cam. Its smaller than the popular "272" V6 cam. Also, I hope you're not talking about the "85-88" performance cam. Its intended to work ONLY with roller lifters, and will destroy flat tappets. 84 blocks don't have the provisions to fit roller lifters. You can only run the Fierostore "84" cam in an 84 block.

hey kurt can't the older blocks be retro fitted with rollers; the only difference is that the parts for the roller lifter holders are there; unless the lifter oiling ring is different

oh, yeah and the engines with roller tappets and cams as far as i know can be retro fitted to flat tappets and cams;besides pushrods of course

[This message has been edited by baldlobo (edited 05-09-2009).]

Oh man, been at it all day and still have not dropped the Duke. Everything is done except pulling those front cradle bolts out and lifting the car off the cradle. Anyone know a little trick I musta missed? Right now I'm thinking to lift the engine a tad bit from the cradle via jack at the oil pan with a block of wood to cusion. Maybe that will alleviate the downward pressure on the front cradle bolts so I can knock them out. I must chill for a few and have a Heineken....ug

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

One of the best things you can do for an 84 duke is put in 87 crank and rods. They're stronger than the 84 parts, and they will fit (despite that crank sensor wheel on the 87 crank).

Thanks Top, maybe I can trade mine in at the parts store....? I still have to get those front bolts out...

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

When it comes to cradle bolts the front ones are the best ones to have trouble with. At Least if you get fed up you can cut the bolts. The Fiero Store sells replacements. Try soaking them in PB Blaster.


I like to stiffen up the cradle with poly bushing while it is ut of the car anyway. Good luck.

Dwayne

I have removed 2.5's from Fieros 5 times. I always pull the engine from the top and don't mess with the cradle bolts. Used a reinforced ceiling beam in the garage and a come along.

quote Originally posted by 1MohrFiero: When it comes to cradle bolts the front ones are the best ones to have trouble with. At Least if you get fed up you can cut the bolts. The Fiero Store sells replacements. Try soaking them in PB Blaster. I like to stiffen up the cradle with poly bushing while it is ut of the car anyway. Good luck. Dwayne

Thanks Dwayne, all I gotta do is knock them out I have them unscrewed. The service manual has a motor lifting jig. I will try making one. Definitely will concider polys.

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

Costs WILL start adding up. When I rebuilt my 3.4 for performace, it would have been cheaper in the long run to swap in a 3800 S/C. Once you machine the block, redo the head, buy new rods and cranks etc. etc. etc. - you may find you'd have been better off getting a remanufactured 87 long block.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

But if that's the route you want to go, there's SD4 parts floating around

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-10-2009).]

cost on the HEAD- bronze guides-$120. -resurface $35-, valve job #60.- valve springs (shop around) $35. --bore the block $60.-, Pistons (ebay)$50. , rings, reconditioning the rods $120, Rod bearings, Main bearings, Cam bearings, Timing components, Gasket set (for "R" code engine) Ebay $30. - oil, Engine assembly LUBE (I use STP), gasket sealer, ( use permatex Copper gasket maker) Definitely replace the" Freeze" plugs with Brass ones ! while it's out, Do the WATERPUMP, you'll be glad you did while it's out ! make sure your Oil Sender is good. (I put in a "T" at the block so I have a "MECHANICAL Gauge also),m front motor mount, Trans mount, check the teeth on your Flywhhel. ALL this stuff is Much Much easier with the engine OUT. list is getting longer , isn't it ?! hopefully I showed you a couple of things you had not concidered.

Im doing the exact same thing to my 86 fiero.
I just pulled the duke engine out of the car afew days ago.
im just rebuilding the Intake System and the TBI. Painting everything to make it look nice and purrdy when im done. I was going to do some gasket matching port job while I have it out. But I dont have the proper bits for it so I think I might just leave it. I may get fork up the money and get the bits...
Anyways lots of photos will be great!
Your doing alot more work then I will be. I just re-ringed the pistions and rehoned the cly walls.Pput in new con rods bearings and it has 10 kms at least.... but I messed up on the clutch part. So im redoing everything again. While I have it out. Why not just replace everything and paint it and clean it up while I have the tranny and engine out Make it more reliable with all new parts.

I just took lots of photos on my intake/TBI rebuild. I just can't loaded them on the computer yet. Cant find the little cord that plugs into the camera!!
If you like. I can post some of the photos of my intake rebuild if you want a reference or anything. Ill just have to do some more searching on the little cord. Its around somewhere....

Actually, the best thing you can do for a duke Fiero, if you want to keep it a duke, is to get one out of a 1991 Pontiac 6000. This is the ultimate VIN R duke. It is rated at 110 HP. It is redlined at 5500 RPM (not 5000). And it has has a timing chain (no fiber gear).
If you have a 1987 or 88 Fiero, it will drop right in. For an earlier Fiero, you'll need to do some re-wiring, because it is a DIS engine (no distributor).

quote Originally posted by joshh44: Im doing the exact same thing to my 86 fiero. I just pulled the duke engine out of the car afew days ago. im just rebuilding the Intake System and the TBI. Painting everything to make it look nice and purrdy when im done. I was going to do some gasket matching port job while I have it out. But I dont have the proper bits for it so I think I might just leave it. I may get fork up the money and get the bits... Anyways lots of photos will be great! Your doing alot more work then I will be. I just re-ringed the pistions and rehoned the cly walls.Pput in new con rods bearings and it has 10 kms at least.... but I messed up on the clutch part. So im redoing everything again. While I have it out. Why not just replace everything and paint it and clean it up while I have the tranny and engine out Make it more reliable with all new parts. I just took lots of photos on my intake/TBI rebuild. I just can't loaded them on the computer yet. Cant find the little cord that plugs into the camera!! If you like. I can post some of the photos of my intake rebuild if you want a reference or anything. Ill just have to do some more searching on the little cord. Its around somewhere....

Dude thats way cool man! I dont think I need intake pics, but thanks a ton man! Yea, I am going with a standard gasket match porting. Doing a TBI rebuild? I always thought maybe a honing tool can be used to enlarge the opening. A new throttle plate is probably pretty cheap. I think They just screw on...? This seems like an easy HP builder..? Dude I've been finding a fair amount of space frame rust in the rear area. I will be taking off the rear body and issue resolving there while I'm at it. Best to you!

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[This message has been edited by White 84 SE (edited 05-17-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: cost on the HEAD- bronze guides-$120. -resurface $35-, valve job #60.- valve springs (shop around) $35. --bore the block $60.-, Pistons (ebay)$50. , rings, reconditioning the rods $120, Rod bearings, Main bearings, Cam bearings, Timing components, Gasket set (for "R" code engine) Ebay $30. - oil, Engine assembly LUBE (I use STP), gasket sealer, ( use permatex Copper gasket maker) Definitely replace the" Freeze" plugs with Brass ones ! while it's out, Do the WATERPUMP, you'll be glad you did while it's out ! make sure your Oil Sender is good. (I put in a "T" at the block so I have a "MECHANICAL Gauge also),m front motor mount, Trans mount, check the teeth on your Flywhhel. ALL this stuff is Much Much easier with the engine OUT. list is getting longer , isn't it ?! hopefully I showed you a couple of things you had not concidered.

Havent considered the mod! Why mess with the plugs? I will get resurfacing if and where it's out. Bronze valve guides? What and how is that? Why not just oversize? I just got the water pump reconditioned. Def on the oil sender! Ive got new motor mounts but will likely need trans mounts. Thanks on the flywheel headsup. Def on the moly lube!

How about...
Rust stopping in and around engine bay. Gasket matching of course. Sound deadening the valve cover and push rod cover. Paint the block in engine enamel. Thread repair and various repacement boltage... That about covers it I think! ????

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

quote Originally posted by White 84 SE: Sound deadening the valve cover and push rod cover.

How, may I ask, do you intend on doing this?

quote Originally posted by 86fierofun: How, may I ask, do you intend on doing this?

I'm glad you asked so I can run it past everyone! I was thinking why not wire brush the inside of the covers and use high temp RTV spread thin. Of course I am majorly concerned with adherence. What do you guys think?

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

quote Originally posted by White 84 SE: I'm glad you asked so I can run it past everyone! I was thinking why not wire brush the inside of the covers and use high temp RTV spread thin. Of course I am majorly concerned with adherence. What do you guys think?

I think you are asking for trouble. The RTV is going to come loose eventually and nothing good is going to happen if that starts circulating around the engine. I've been reading the posts here and for all the work you will have to do to the engine, have you considered looking at the cost of a short or long block vs the money it will cost to machine and rebuild the existing engine? Often it starts out cheaper but in the long run it can be cheaper and easier to get a complete engine already rebuilt.

quote Originally posted by TONY_C: I think you are asking for trouble. The RTV is going to come loose eventually and nothing good is going to happen if that starts circulating around the engine. I've been reading the posts here and for all the work you will have to do to the engine, have you considered looking at the cost of a short or long block vs the money it will cost to machine and rebuild the existing engine? Often it starts out cheaper but in the long run it can be cheaper and easier to get a complete engine already rebuilt.

Alright yea....I'll nix the sound damper on the internals... Was a wierd idea. Thanks man. I have to keep reminding myself not to guinea pig my Duke. So far my reconditioned long block search turns up $1200.00. Most of what will be needed I can do and the machine work is the only real cost. For sure it'll need all new bearings, rings, some gaskets, likely some new pistons and a bore job. Other than that dont know yet but I will be spec checking myself rather than leaving it to someone else. I will be adding a previously purchased performance cam and lifters and gasket matching the intake, exhaust manifolds and head. So, even if I got a long block I still gotta take it all apart. Actually, all I'm doing here is the Haynes overhaul walk through with a new cam and some porting....
Seems O.K. reasonable.

So today I'll saw through the last cradle to body bolt and lower the Duke and raise the body and out she'll be. Wish me luck!
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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

[This message has been edited by White 84 SE (edited 05-12-2009).]

now , while you take it apart, take LOTS of PICTURES, so you will know exactly what goes where, (dist position, where each "sender goes). you'll be glad you did.) & putting your nuts Bolts in baggies & labeling them as you remove them will be of great help. no matter how carefull you are , bolts seem to "vanish " !

quote Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: now , while you take it apart, take LOTS of PICTURES, so you will know exactly what goes where, (dist position, where each "sender goes). you'll be glad you did.) & putting your nuts Bolts in baggies & labeling them as you remove them will be of great help. no matter how carefull you are , bolts seem to "vanish " !

Yea man, I got the baggie thing going on but I didnt think about the pictures. I will definitely do that! Thanks. Woah...Distributer position....So I gotta get close! Thanks again!

Oh here's a pic of the jack stand. It IS fully extended but it is only a 14" jack stand. On top of that is a 4"x4"x8' plank located just in front of the back wheels with enough clearance for the front of the cradle.

This was enough to slide the engine out the passenger side wheel well after removing the splash shields and TBI....!
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[This message has been edited by White 84 SE (edited 06-30-2009).]