quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: I wasn't trying to insult anyone. The second paragraph was just a statement, not towards anyone in particular. "You" was to mean anyone looking something up on the internet, that's all. On that web site, the rotors are spinning the wrong way. Again, that's all. Not a slam towards anyone. As for the rotor just spinning inthe cae, what would happen if they were 1/2 smaller in diameter, or even just a quarter. I'm guessing a new one looks nothing like this one does. They are surely made to tight tolerances, so the grooves have to be letting some of the potential charge slip by. Like I said, I don't know much about the blowers, and said that up front. But if you want to get snotty, I'll tell you, I make my power with cubes, and not trying to over power a weak six cylinder as my starting point....hope you know what you can do with your "blind interjections". I still would not put that blower on any motor. Kevin

Take a look at the quarter mile list and tell me again how the 3800 sc 2 engine a weak 6cyl

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 01-24-2007).]

Not only did that website not say anything about the walls being scored, it is a thrasher site, and they even admit that they know nothing about how the blower works in the page itself (they are out of business for a reason..). The tolerances are tight yes, they are so tight that they score the edges over time, do I need to take my blower apart, that makes 15psi on a 3.0 pulley? This is not anything you should be talking about and researching blindly on the internet. There is far to much outdated information on the internet about 3800's as they have been tinkered with for the last 10 years now. If your going to argue, present data that isnt more than 8 years old.

quote excerpt from L67 Teardown Photo 9 text: Notice the walls of the cavity - these must be precision machined as the tolerance between the rotors and the cavity walls must be very tight - any slop there and your boost pressure would suffer greatly. .

It has been several years since I had my rotors out of the case. I did not pay attention, but I do ont recall seeing scoring on the walls. If it was there, it would have caught my attention.

It seems that if air is allowed to pass between the rotor and the walls, the amount of boost that can effectively build would be affected.

[This message has been edited by topcat (edited 01-24-2007).]

quote Originally posted by JimmyS: OK I got the blades out. I am assuming that getting brake cleaner on those bearings inside the caseing would not be a good thing? Also should the inside of the casing look this rough?

I think the casing looks fine.

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" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: If your going to argue, present data that isnt more than 8 years old.

My info is newer then the blower mentioned.

Kevin

Pretty pointless being about 4 others have said the same thing I will say but I have nothing better to do now. The case looks fine and there is no reason to go out and buy another one. I cant think of a M90 case I have seen that didnt have light to moderate scoring and that includes the 23K case that came off my last motor. I agree with Revin/Topcat on the bashing of JR, you made your point and it is well taken. I will go back to what I said before about not rushing things of this nature. I remeber typing in your other Thread about JR could make this motor go after 2000 miles if he wanted to, looks like it happened. Not saying he did it on purpose but when bashing someone that is working on your car, not a good thing. But keep up the work on it and it will be worth it in the end.


And of course I cant leave out the comment on--- " I'll tell you, I make my power with cubes, and not trying to over power a weak six cylinder as my starting point.... "---

Now thats just funny!!!!!!

Here is what R&L Carriers brought to me today.

Thanks Ed.












I completely tore down the supercharger and cleaned it up a little. GOD THAT OIL STINKS! I will post pics of it later.
Do I need to use a thin coat of high temp RTV when I put it all back together?

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 01-25-2007).]

Man look how clean that intake area is on that motor. Yes use a thin coat of RTV on all gaskets when putting everything back together and a very thin coat when putting the rotors back in. Some of the RTV will push out from between spots and be visable, just let it dry and rub it off. Be sure when installing the SC that you use a torque wrench and tighten the bolts in the proper order. While torquing down the bolts on the SC, stop in between and turn the pulley to insure there is no binding. If the proper torque and pattern is not used to tighten down the SC, then it will bind and do heavy amounts of scoring on the inside of the case. It should spin freely the whole time you are torqing down the SC.

Do you have a diagram showing the order in which to torque them down and the ft. pounds used?

PM replied too

Well if you haven't already, get yourself a full workshop manual for the year of the car/engine you are going to build. It should have in it all the info you need about torque numbers, bolt sequences, special tools and tolerances that you need to ensure the engine is put together correctly. Don't guess, and even given the best intentions of those here, don't rely on info here too much, it's a great guide but it should only be a guide. Go by the book and if not sure, take it to the experts with the machines, tools and knowledge to do it right (yeah, I know that's what you did the first time).

Good luck with the build.

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Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com

Ok here are the pics of the supercharger cleaned up a bit.









And 1 of it re-assembled and painted.

The paint looks GREAT! The paint on mine is starting to chip in a few places. I'd like to find a blower locally and paint it. I especially like the flame work on the valve covers.

When you put the snout on, I hope you used the GM anaerobic gasket maker (or permatex equivalent). Some people say they've had good luck with the rtv, but a lot of people have had leaks. The anaerobic red tube GM stuff is what is supposed to be used.

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: When you put the snout on, I hope you used the GM anaerobic gasket maker (or permatex equivalent). Some people say they've had good luck with the rtv, but a lot of people have had leaks. The anaerobic red tube GM stuff is what is supposed to be used.

I used a high temp. rtv sealant. I called zzperformance and they said that the high temp. rtv is fine.

so if he is a member....where is his response or defence of himself...? I'm curious to see what he has to say about all this....?

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1986 Fiero GT - ZZ4 swap and upgraded sus and more in progress
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2006 (DD) Jeep Wrangler X

IraSummers
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People seem to have good luck with the Autolite 104s on ClubGP. I run those as well as Mobil1 oil/filter.

Your valve covers were painted upside down??

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 01-30-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: People seem to have good luck with the Autolite 104s on ClubGP. I run those as well as Mobil1 oil/filter. Your valve covers were painted upside down??

Thanks Jncomutt. I had him paint them that way to make it appear like the flames were coming from the fuel rails.

I was mistaken about the year of the motor. i was informed by Ed that the motor is from a 2006 GTP not a 2004

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: When you put the snout on, I hope you used the GM anaerobic gasket maker (or permatex equivalent). Some people say they've had good luck with the rtv, but a lot of people have had leaks. The anaerobic red tube GM stuff is what is supposed to be used.

I used regular RTV on mine a couple of years ago... no leaks andno issues to date

On the exhaust side that has the EGR...Can I cut off the little tube sticking out and the excess of the thick plate, and weld the hole shut since I am going to get rid of the EGR? I am going to be sending the exhaust manifolds and crossover pipe out to be ceramic coated this week.

Yes, ohio86se did that and it looks pretty nice.

Grab you a set of Autolite 104s and some Mobil 1 syn and you will be set. I have ran AL 104 and 103s and have had good luck with both of them. The motor is looking good, to bad you didnt have a garage to begin with, from the looks of it, you could have handled the swap yourself. I thought the motor was an 06 being thats when the black VC started coming on them. I am still interested in them if you wann sell them. I also use RTV to seal the snout and have had not leaking issues so far. You are really going to enjoy the car once its back together and you know you have put your own work into it.

I second the Autolites. I tried some Platinum plugs once, and the car ran like CRAP. I put the Autolites back in and have not had any issues at all.

With the pulley you have on there, I would not run anything other than the autolite 104's gapped around 050 or 055.

What did you do to get that case so nice looking? it looks like you put a cylider hone in there.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: With the pulley you have on there, I would not run anything other than the autolite 104's gapped around 050 or 055. What did you do to get that case so nice looking? it looks like you put a cylider hone in there.

All I did was spray a little brake cleaner onto a rag and wipe it out.

I guess if I care next time I have my rotors out I will do the same then! I like the paint job, good luck getting it back together right this time. Remember that if you havent already that your better of dropping the cradle to do the motor switcharoo, but I asume you already did this. Also when pulling the old block off, just pull the 3 bolts out of the flexplate going to the torque converter, as it is much easier to not mess with the torque converter when pulling the motor.

Does plumbers paste need to be applied to the upper intake bolts?

um, I think you mean lower intake, as the supercharger is the upper intake, and sorta yes, I usually throw some RTV on them left over from doing the lower intake gasket.

As long as the autolites are the copper ones, and the autozone guy told you not to buy them about 15 times, then yea they are the right ones.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Yes use a thin coat of RTV on all gaskets when putting everything back together and a very thin coat when putting the rotors back in.

Looks like I am a little late to this thread but nevertheless, I must caution you on the use of RTV as mentioned by Mstangs.

DO NOT use RTV on any gaskets used in this engine except for the following...

If your 3800 has a stamped steel oil pan, there is a GM TSB out that recommends running a thin bead of RTV directly applied to the pan rail before installing the gasket and installing the pan and gasket onto the engine. The reason why this is required is because GM had issues with these stamped steel pans; the pan rails were incorrectly formed which resulted in ripples that didn't seal correctly. The RTV GM TSB fix cures this condition. If your 3800 has the cast aluminum oil pan, no RTV is needed on the pan rail. Small amounts of RTV are also required on the block in front and in back where the rear cover and timing covers mate to the block at the oil pan gasket surface.

RTV is recommended for use on the lower intake manifold ONLY where the cylinder heads meet the block/lifter valley rails. DO NOT use RTV on any intake gaskets, valve cover gaskets, supercharger gasket, or throttle body gasket. IT IS NOT NEEDED and can actually cause a leak due to inhibiting a proper seal of the low-troque sealing gaskets used on this engine. GM didn't use RTV in these locations and neither should you.

Concerning the supercharger itself, the mating surfaces of the supercharger housing components are supposed to be sealed using anerobic gasket maker (looks like red gel). Use of RTV here can result in excess sealant being squeezed into the internal parts of the supercharger which can break off and end up lodging themselves into the roller bearings of the supercharger internal components.

Also, it is highly recommended that the lower intake manifold bolts be coated with BLUE LOCTITE prior to installation. The same is recommended for oil pan bolts. I also recommend using blue loctite on the supercharger snout assy bolts. These bolts get torqued to 18 ft/lbs.

-ryan

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power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Custom Computer Tuning | Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | www.gmtuners.com

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Concerning the supercharger itself, the mating surfaces of the supercharger housing components are supposed to be sealed using anerobic gasket maker (looks like red gel). Use of RTV here can result in excess sealant being squeezed into the internal parts of the supercharger which can break off and end up lodging themselves into the roller bearings of the supercharger internal components. -ryan

Exactly what I was told at GM when I was buying my gaskets/orings/SC oil. Thanks for the info on the other areas!!!

As stated above, 18ft lbs torque.... use a good torque wrench and the correct pattern. I wouldn't be using RTV except where called for, and recommend Toyota Black as opposed to actual RTV unless you want leaks.

Well I guess everyone does things differant and alot of ppl go by the books but--- I have always used red RTV on almost all gaskets going onto a motor that I was working on. My cammed 3800SC motor got the same red RTV that all others have gotten and everything is A okay with it. Like I said everyone does things differant and alot of ppl like going by the book, I just go by what I was taught growing up.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: I just go by what I was taught growing up.

Whether I was taught right or not....

Kevin

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: I just go by what I was taught growing up.

Fair enough. But I ask you this: How do you know what you were taught was actually correct?