Well i'm proud to announce that the $300 spec 3 (sc883) clutch has finally exploded after only 3 months and maybe 1500 miles. I'm not very happy at this time.
I have a 4.9L v8 isuzu 5spd with a custom flywheel from LSC performance.
I've attached some pictures of the damage, basically the springs in the center wanted to jump out for whatever reason but luckily did not screwup my flywheel or the pressure plate. I'm wondering, what clutch should I replace it with. I'm pretty sure if I go with the same spec clutch its going to fail again. What do you guys use with the 4.9?
The plus is for smoother driveability, shouldn't chatter. I'm about 100 miles into breaking my Stage 3 and the chatter is starting to go away. Why are springs jumping out of these clutches all of a sudden???????
Ebay clutches, they are all made by the same company
I have used xtd, xtr, and ez clutches, I'm on my 5th one in my current '86GT 3800sc. One of them went for around 31,000 and the second longest was 26k. I haven't had any of the others for any longer than maybe 10,000, but they never failed before then
I used this one last. It comes with a 12,000 mile/ 12 month warranty
I had the pleasure of buying a stage 2 Spec clutch with the hub assembled wrong and it destroyed my input bearing/sleeve. The case had to be split and I was out one grand which doesn't include my time and effort to drop the cradle and swap everything out a secont time. I replaced the clutch in my SHO a year ago with a Spec clutch. Guess what? It is toast and my Ford SHO specialist who put it in is not impressed and would not use another one. Eventhough he has his own shop he recommends the stock Ford clutch over the Spec. I have bought my last Spec clutch.
Find a good local clutch builder, tell them what you are dealing with and what you want and let them build it for you locally. My first was a dual friction piece using the original Fiero disc hub. It stood up behind a turbocharged 3100 until I removed it resently. The clutch rebuilders can usually increase the spring load in your pressure plate also for added holding capacity. My second is the Kevlar disc for the 6 spd using the OE disc hub.
I have been running a turbo 3.4 pushrod for about two years using a SPEC Stage 2 and have had no problems so far. This has been in town/heavy traffic and highway miles for Daytona trips.
I have been running a turbo 3.4 pushrod for about two years using a SPEC Stage 2 and have had no problems so far. This has been in town/heavy traffic and highway miles for Daytona trips.
You are one of the fortunate ones, but clearly at least to me the failure rate and the similarity among them seen here on the Fiero forum alone suggests that there is a real problem apparently more so with the high torque engines capable of producing high torque levels off throttle where smaller turbo motors are not likely to do so until a higher rpm. The real bummer here is that members are buying the product at a considerable price in an effort to avoid the problems they are running into with it. A clutch swap isn't an easy task unless someone else is performing it for you free of charge.
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05:04 AM
Fierobsessed Member
Posts: 4782 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 2001
How are the rivets, its hard to tell from the pictures but are they lose? or tilted? The failure seems awefully simular to the ones on this thread... //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/086132.html I am just curious about the rivets since I think this is what is causing the springs to shoot out. One well proven solution is to go with the solid hubs, but ask others how they like their solid hub clutches before purchasing one.
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05:59 AM
PFF
System Bot
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12127 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
Originally posted by arte444: Well i'm proud to announce that the $300 spec 2+ clutch has finally exploded after only 3 months and maybe 1500 miles.
I do not believe that is a Stage 2 clutch - but actually a stage 3. The stage 2 has kevlar friction material with the stage 3 being the 6 puck metalic material. The Stage 2+ has kevlar on one side and 6 puck on the other.
The majority of these failures (atleast from Spec) have been on the stage 3 clutch which is very grippy and chattery - especially during the break in period. I had mine in for 7000 miles without issue and was replaced because I had the tranny out 1000 miles from home, within 30 miles of Spec and decided to be safe and get another. I am now running the stage 3+ and I really like it!
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07:01 AM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4539 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
Makes me feel really comfortable about my Spec 2. Chatters a bit from time to time. I wasn't going to give the clutch a second thought, but I'll be swapping my tranny in the next few days. May go ahead and yank the clutch as well. If there's any of this kind of damage, it won't be replaced with a Spec.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-15-2007).]
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08:02 AM
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
Given the number of these things that seem to self destruct in short order (or are simply manufactured incorrectly) it beat my why people keep buying them. Whilst I am sure that there are many people that are entirely satisfied with their SPEC clutch it seems to me at least that there are enough quality issues seen to make one at least wary of buying on of these things.
I do not believe that is a Stage 2 clutch - but actually a stage 3. The stage 2 has kevlar friction material with the stage 3 being the 6 puck metalic material. The Stage 2+ has kevlar on one side and 6 puck on the other.
The majority of these failures (atleast from Spec) have been on the stage 3 clutch which is very grippy and chattery - especially during the break in period. I had mine in for 7000 miles without issue and was replaced because I had the tranny out 1000 miles from home, within 30 miles of Spec and decided to be safe and get another. I am now running the stage 3+ and I really like it!
You are correct sir. I just checked my receipt and the part number sc883 confirms it is a stage 3.
yes thats a spec stg 3. will probably always chatter but ive used these on a few engines and not had any problems. judging by the friction surfaces being relativly clean and the springs being over expanded and popped out it looks like youre shifting too hard/downshifting to hard. if the clutch itself was failing the problem would probably lie in the rivits or whatnot, since this is the third time its happened to u(assuming its been the same every time) id have to say driver error) spec makes some good stuff i dont think ive heard anything against them.
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08:47 AM
fierosound Member
Posts: 15144 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
I've heard great things about Quartermaster and McLeod clutches. The local Vette shop here uses McLeod exclusively and a member of ours installed one in his Fiero with turbo'd 3400 aluminum head V6. No problems at all so far.
Oh oh. That looks just like mine failed. See my thread listed above. People don't buy from other vendors because there is none tested by enough people here. Remember when people moved from Centerfoce to Spec? A few brave started trying them and they did ok then. Now it seems either the product is inferior or we have stronger engines. I tried a different manufacturer (did excellent in a V6 clutch) and failed the same. Construction when compared to Spec was pretty bad. So what promising options we have out there?? I recomend you to go with a solid hub (stage 4) like I did. This thing is holding great even with 100 miles and doesn't chatter at all which surprised me. If I break these I will not want to see what comes out. Good luck!
My Stage 3 did the exact same thing - called them up and they sent me a replacemment disc. I noticed that the new disc was stamped out of heavier sheet metal vs the one that the springs chewed through. So far the new disc has close to 10k km on it with no problems.
That clutch chattered like hell in first gear unless i burned it to take off. It would violently shake the car, which might have led to its failure. Do you think I would be happier with a stage 2 instead? Only mod my engine has is a mild delta cam.
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10:33 AM
PFF
System Bot
Zac88GT Member
Posts: 1024 From: Victoria BC Registered: Nov 2004
Originally posted by megafreakindeth: since this is the third time its happened to u(assuming its been the same every time) id have to say driver error) spec makes some good stuff i dont think ive heard anything against them.
A clutch of this caliber should be able to handle whatever you can throw at it from a 4.9, I don't think there is such thing as driver error in this case. I would second going to a solid hub clutch
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10:49 AM
Alex4mula Member
Posts: 7403 From: Canton, MI US Registered: Dec 1999
That clutch chattered like hell in first gear unless i burned it to take off. It would violently shake the car, which might have led to its failure. Do you think I would be happier with a stage 2 instead? Only mod my engine has is a mild delta cam.
I suggest to go higher and not lower. 4.9s put good torque. I also used a Stage 3 for 500 miles (high milage getrag failed and took it with it) and it chattered like crazy.
I've heard great things about Quartermaster and McLeod clutches. The local Vette shop here uses McLeod exclusively and a member of ours installed one in his Fiero with turbo'd 3400 aluminum head V6. No problems at all so far.
It's interesting that the stock Fiero clutch does not appear to have any history of spontaneous catastrophic failure issues aside from the potential to slip after being over powered. I used a stock pressure plate with the rebuilt Fiero clutch disc and dual friction material with the turbocharged 3100 on 7 psi which I'm sure was every bit as powerful as a moderately worked 3.4L and it performed flawlessly. The Spec 3 clutch disc for the 2.8-3.1 Grand Prix is rated at 450 lb/ft so it should be strong enough for the applications that it's failing under unless there is a flaw in the modifications necessary to accomodate it in the non V6 swap.
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12:22 PM
Alex4mula Member
Posts: 7403 From: Canton, MI US Registered: Dec 1999
It's interesting that the stock Fiero clutch does not appear to have any history of spontaneous catastrophic failure issues aside from the potential to slip after being over powered. ...
If it slips then there is no shock stress. Only heat which will make it slip more. I bet a stock V6 clutch will not grenade in my car but it will burn if I let it too
I talked to matt from spec and he is asking me to send him a bunch of pictures of the clutch mounted and what everything looks like which is no problem. One other thing he asked me to do is have a professional measure the runout on the transmission which I don't think I should have to do. There is no wobble on the input shaft from what I can see and the transmission / clutch worked fine while I had my 4cyl. He will cut me a deal on a solid disc clutch if I can convince him that this thing is defective though. So, if I can get a solid disc from them I will probably do that otherwise i'm going to switch to a different company for my clutch.
Thanks Kyle. As I suspected, the wear-grooves in the spring pockets show that there was “wobble” due to the off-axis alignment of the input shaft. The springs will wear those pockets out just like that. Then, one finally gets through. It can only happen in these circumstances. I’ll await your pics of the pressure plate so I can evaluate the possible re-use of it. Regards, Matt Mechanical Engineer SPEC, Inc. (800) 828-4379
I talked to matt from spec and he is asking me to send him a bunch of pictures of the clutch mounted and what everything looks like which is no problem. One other thing he asked me to do is have a professional measure the runout on the transmission which I don't think I should have to do. There is no wobble on the input shaft from what I can see and the transmission / clutch worked fine while I had my 4cyl. He will cut me a deal on a solid disc clutch if I can convince him that this thing is defective though. So, if I can get a solid disc from them I will probably do that otherwise i'm going to switch to a different company for my clutch.
Can the input shaft wobble enough without showing some sign of functional problem while in the car or be undetectable by checking it by hand once removed from the car? I would think something would have to crack or bend enough to the point where you would be able demonstrate loose input bearings or a loose input shaft by shaking it with your hand. Perhaps you should have the tranny input shaft checked and send pictures of it also. I see the solution is about the same, going to a more expensive part. Hope someone figures it out, of course the Fiero customer base is probably not big enough for it to matter all that much to them from a cost stand point. Never mind the one that failed on the near new 6 spd in another thread resently. I think it's time all the victims are rounded up so you'll have a bit more support and bring that to their attention as to why you should assume shaft wobble first.
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02:43 PM
KaijuSenso Member
Posts: 911 From: Westland, MI Registered: Jan 2007
. Concerning the age of the Fiero GETRAGs and the fact that they seem to be hardly if ever rebuilt, it is quite possible that some runout of the input shaft could contribute to chatter and accelerate failure. It doesn't take much runout to create enough wobble to cause problems. It can be easily measured using a dial indicator and it's a good idea to check it before reinstalling any used Getrag.
------------------ 87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds 2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress Engine Controls, PCM goodies, re-programming & odd electronics stuff " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
. Concerning the age of the Fiero GETRAGs and the fact that they seem to be hardly if ever rebuilt, it is quite possible that some runout of the input shaft could contribute to chatter and accelerate failure. It doesn't take much runout to create enough wobble to cause problems. It can be easily measured using a dial indicator and it's a good idea to check it before reinstalling any used Getrag.
There has been at least one similar failure with the 6spd that is highly unlikely to have had a shaft run out problem that would need to be explained, also Spec seems to be the only clutch failing providing the pictorial results that have been cropping up.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 10-15-2007).]
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07:31 PM
Fierobsessed Member
Posts: 4782 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 2001
But then again, I don't know if your engine swaps (4.9, SBC) have a pilot bearing to help stabilize the input shaft. I know the slight nub on the end of the input shaft spline just barely inserts into the end of the crank on my 3.4 DOHC. I am still curious about the condition of your clutches rivets though.
I'll take some more pictures in a couple mins. As for now I'd like to get a vote on what clutch disc I should get next. I'm keeping the spec 3 pressure plate, which is fine to do right? =)
You can always get a clutch disc from these guys and use your spec pressure plate. I ran one of their clutches when I had my V6 with nitrous. Used a solid hub clutch and it held up for the 10,000 miles it was in the car. I got the spec when I did my 4.9 swap because I wanted a new clutch but the clutchnet disc still looked good.
Heres a bunch more photos. Not sure if the center bearing is supposed to be that sloppy or not or if my input shaft caused that? The input shaft is solid as far as I can tell. I had another guy look at it also and I don't think I will be having a professional look at it.
Thats the same pattern we saw in some of the other threads.
My question is. Are the spring coming in contact with the pressure plate before, or after coming loose? This may go back to this thread from years ago. //www.fiero.nl/forum/A...030204-2-021911.html
Archie had a problem with over travel of the friction plate. It did not cause a failure because he noticed the problem and corrected for it using an adjustable clutch banjo from Rodneydickman.com. I have not heard of any other solutions except for calling SPEC and asking for a replacement.
I just put a stage 3 in my 4.9. I will be pulling the motor out to do the exhaust in a couple weeks. I'm a little worried that should take it out while I have the chance.
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09:01 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40712 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
