Aaron, I am not sure if you have chosen to read part's of my responses intentionally or to attempt to prove a point. If you have an issue...call me or email me and we can go from there. I have made it quite clear that I am willing to assist anyone with an issue and you are no different...though you seem to feel that you are for some reason. When and where was the clutch purchased? Is your clutch out of your car? Will you send me some pics? That is the first step of moving towards a resolution.

As a side note, this is not about batches...that is a common assumption but one that is unfounded. We use the same base materials on all of our clutches. If there were an issue it would effect parts across the board...and I can assure you that this is not the case (though based on your current disposition I doubt that you will take my word for it). Either way, you can make the choice to stamp your feet on a forum or call me and allow me to assist you in determing the issue and subsequent resolution. Let me know if I may be of any further assistance.

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J. Auvil
Jeremy@specclutch.com
800-828-4379 x.109

[This message has been edited by Jeremy@SPEC (edited 10-23-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Jeremy@SPEC: Aaron, I am not sure if you have chosen to read part's of my responses intentionally or to attempt to prove a point. If you have an issue...call me or email me and we can go from there. I have made it quite clear that I am willing to assist anyone with an issue and you are no different...though you seem to feel that you are for some reason. When and where was the clutch purchased? Is your clutch out of your car? Will you send me some pics? That is the first step of moving towards a resolution. As a side note, this is not about batches...that is a common assumption but one that is unfounded. We use the same base materials on all of our clutches. If there were an issue it would effect parts across the board...and I can assure you that this is not the case (though based on your current disposition I doubt that you will take my word for it). Either way, you can make the choice to stamp your feet on a forum or call me and allow me to assist you in determing the issue and subsequent resolution. Let me know if I may be of any further assistance.

i called and left a message last month, guess i called after hours or something...anyways, i didnt get a return call back, and i have been travelling alot since then, so i havent had a chance to address the matter again.. rest assured, i will contact you jeremy when i get back to south FL. We'll see what can be worked out, because, despite having only 1000 miles on the clutch, and only having installed it 3 months ago, i bought it well over a year ago, i just didnt get around to installing it until recently(other people's jobs always seem to come first before my own projects )

The layout: Stage 3 clutch kit, rebuilt '85 fiero 4 speed muncie transmission, and a brand new team python billet steel flywheel, installed on a stock 4.9L caddy engine.

anyways, after digging into the forums alot more, i found that these 4 cases of busted stage 3 clutches arent the only ones, some of them just slipped through the cracks. like you said yourself earlier, the fiero community is a niche community to be sure, theres alot of crazy engine swaps going on here. I bought the spec clutch based on recommendations from other members that were happy with theirs, and i have recommended spec clutches to all my freinds and customers who do fiero engine swaps. theyve all been pleased to various degrees.

anyways, i am impressed by the fervor and tacfulness of your responses to the fiero community in this forum. I hope these breakages turn out to be exceptions rather than a continuing trend.

I am grateful for your appreciation of the answers and assistance that I have provided. In truth, I wish I had known that these forums were here two years ago. That being said, I will talk to you when ever you get back in the office. Thanks and have a great afternoon!

Lets talk less about everyone else and more about me =P kidding.
I did drop off my new (used) isuzu from an 87 grand am at AAMCO today and they should be telling me whether or not it is crap in a couple of days.
To be continued....

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-Kyle
Email: kakagiraffe@gmail.com
Aim: Littlechugger
1988 Notchback 4.9 V8, 5spd Isuzu
True Dual Exhaust, Delta Cam
1993 Ford Probe 5spd

quote Originally posted by arte444: Lets talk less about everyone else and more about me =P kidding. I did drop off my new (used) isuzu from an 87 grand am at AAMCO today and they should be telling me whether or not it is crap in a couple of days. To be continued....

putting an izuzu behind a 4.9L is a bad idea to begin with, regardless of what clutch you use with it. just ask captfiero, i believe hes been through 3 of them now...V6 4 speed muncie, 5 speed getrag, or 4t60eHD tranny, those are your options no exceptions bro.. the izuzu's just cant take the TQ over time....

There are a bunch of people that are happy with the isuzu. I guess I will see how long it lasts. For how cheap they are it doesnt really bother me anyways.

quote Originally posted by arte444: There are a bunch of people that are happy with the isuzu. I guess I will see how long it lasts. For how cheap they are it doesnt really bother me anyways.

but any tranny is cheap in the junkyard, they are all the same price.. getrags are just as common as izuzus over here in FL, i dont know about where you are at. if Dave(captfiero) is anywhere around, he'll tell you how pathetically weak they are..

me personally, if i were to go with a getrag, i would personally go with the 284 getrag from a 3.4DOHC lumina or monetcarlo, has the same gear ratios as the fiero getrags, but it has the intermediate shaft so you get to use equal length CV axles, and it is a little more rugged internally

quote Originally posted by aaronrus: putting an izuzu behind a 4.9L is a bad idea to begin with, regardless of what clutch you use with it. just ask captfiero, i believe hes been through 3 of them now...V6 4 speed muncie, 5 speed getrag, or 4t60eHD tranny, those are your options no exceptions bro.. the izuzu's just cant take the TQ over time....

Archie's first Finale had a LM1 SBC (250hp/350 torque) with an Isuzu 5-spd that had a crack in the case. He used JB-weld over the crack and drove it hard for over a year and the transaxle never failed. He would give folks a 0-100mph blast then back to 0 to demonstrate his big brake kit. I know at on gathering he did about 15 runs and still drove the car back 160 miles to his shop. I believe that the condition of the trans you start with also has a lot to do with how long it will last. Used transaxles are like used engines, You don't know how it was treated prior to getting it so it is wise to have it checked out before you install it.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Archie's first Finale had a LM1 SBC (250hp/350 torque) with an Isuzu 5-spd that had a crack in the case. He used JB-weld over the crack and drove it hard for over a year and the transaxle never failed. He would give folks a 0-100mph blast then back to 0 to demonstrate his big brake kit. I know at on gathering he did about 15 runs and still drove the car back 160 miles to his shop. I believe that the condition of the trans you start with also has a lot to do with how long it will last. Used transaxles are like used engines, You don't know how it was treated prior to getting it so it is wise to have it checked out before you install it.

Yeah, I remember that. Had a blast that day.

I used to beat the heck out of that car.

Back in the first 12 - 14 years, a good 80% of the V-8 swaps were on 4 cylinder cars that had given up the ghost. We used the original Isuzu 5 speed on those cars & never thought twice about it. By then the mix of donor cars was moving over to the 6 cylinder cars that were wearing out engines. And so the transmission mix in the cars we are doing in house has switched to the V-6 transmissions for the most part. Over the last 3 years I'd say that there has only been 6 or 7 cars that we've done swaps to that had 4 cylinder engines & transmissions in them.

A few years ago i found a NEW Fiero Isuzu transmission that had never been installed in any car in a storage room at JPT transmissions. I have that transmission tucked away & one of these days I'm going to put it in one of my cars & see what it will take.

I say it's more about the overall condition of the donor transmission & how it's driven then about which transmission you use.

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 10-26-2007).]

quote Originally posted by arte444: There are a bunch of people that are happy with the isuzu. I guess I will see how long it lasts. For how cheap they are it doesnt really bother me anyways.

Anything will break if you beat on it enough.

I agree on "How it is driven". I drive my cars nice on the street for the most part and have never broke anything because I've beat the hell out of it in any vehicle. Mainly I drive my cars nice because I don't want any more attention from the law, my motorcycle gets me in enough trouble.

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-Kyle
Email: kakagiraffe@gmail.com
Aim: Littlechugger
1988 Notchback 4.9 V8, 5spd Isuzu
True Dual Exhaust, Delta Cam
1993 Ford Probe 5spd

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Archie's first Finale had a LM1 SBC (250hp/350 torque) with an Isuzu 5-spd that had a crack in the case. He used JB-weld over the crack and drove it hard for over a year and the transaxle never failed. He would give folks a 0-100mph blast then back to 0 to demonstrate his big brake kit. I know at on gathering he did about 15 runs and still drove the car back 160 miles to his shop. I believe that the condition of the trans you start with also has a lot to do with how long it will last. Used transaxles are like used engines, You don't know how it was treated prior to getting it so it is wise to have it checked out before you install it.

running a straight away isnt running a tranny hard, no offense, archie is an old man, he's problay a near perfect shifter. the izuz cant take a beating in side the gearbox liek the other fiero trannies.. sorry, thats just it's history. Thats why it comes on 4 cylinder cars..

quote Originally posted by aaronrus: running a straight away isnt running a tranny hard, no offense, archie is an old man, he's problay a near perfect shifter. the izuz cant take a beating in side the gearbox liek the other fiero trannies.. sorry, thats just it's history. Thats why it comes on 4 cylinder cars..

I went on one of the 0-100 blasts and he was not "easy" on the trans. He even did a few burn-outs at his shop with it. Near perfect shifting at full throttle isn't going to lessen 300+ lbs of torque thru a trans.

Sure wish I could tell you guys how the new clutch works but its too damn snowy outside. I had other issues to resolve and did not get time to test it (making my own throttle cable and modifying engine mounts).
The new grand am transmission I got for $50 and 80k miles seems to work awesome, shifts way better than the old one at least and when tested, the runout was in tolerance.

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-Kyle
Email: kakagiraffe@gmail.com
Aim: Littlechugger
1988 Notchback 4.9 V8, 5spd Isuzu
True Dual Exhaust, Delta Cam
1993 Ford Probe 5spd

Snow with Fieors sucks!! Sorry. Which disk you end up getting?

Stage 4 Solid hub 6 puck. From just backing it up and moving it forward in the garage it feels nice =)

well actually this thread has me a little worried. What symptons were occuring when you spec clutch failed?

my car won't come out of gear, and I am getting ready to pull the tranny. I also have a spec 3 clutch in the car, but my tranny has 210k miles on it. I am not blaming the spec 3, it is possible that my tranny could have broken the spec 3...

but like I said I would like to know what symptons you saw before you pulled the clutch?

thanks.

Man, just saw this and don't mean to jack this, but we are talking about Stage 3 Spec clutches here; and since I just received my SPEC Stage 3 clutch (ebay) AND I'm no clutch guru I snapped some pictures for the forum's expert opinion. What do you guys think of this clutch?








I've looked it over and I don't see anything obviously wrong, but I know that there are some wicked smart people on this forum that have eyes like trained falcons. Thank you everyone. Hopefully I don't have any problems. The seller informed me that there was ~2k miles on this setup so. Also, do I need a clutch alignement tool to install this? This will be the first time even dealing with putting in a clutch.

Thanks,
John

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John
1955 Chevrolet 210 Sedan (Sitting idle for the moment)
1988 SE (Daily driver)
1988 CJB T-Top (Project car)
2001 Saturn LW300 (Daily driver)
2002 Dodge Intrepid (Wife's car from the fiery pits of Hades)

It might just be the angle but it looks like you are missing 3 fingers on the pressure plate or they are bent. Should be even distance all the way around. Also, that looks like the clutch I had (See page 1) and should work fine just as long as your transmission is in good shape. Mine was not and caused the springs to pop out.

quote well actually this thread has me a little worried. What symptons were occuring when you spec clutch failed? my car won't come out of gear, and I am getting ready to pull the tranny. I also have a spec 3 clutch in the car, but my tranny has 210k miles on it. I am not blaming the spec 3, it is possible that my tranny could have broken the spec 3... but like I said I would like to know what symptons you saw before you pulled the clutch? thanks.

Symptoms included very heavy chattering when taking off from a stop, which encouraged me to rev it higher and slip it. After about 3 months it started to make awful noises while in and out of gear or when the clutch was in or out. Turns out this was pieces of the springs bouncing around between the clutch and flywheel. Also, it would not let me into gear because of the spring mess and the vibration caused by an old out of tolerance transmission.

My advice is to check out the clutch and if it is still in tact you could still re-use it again but with 210k on the transmission im about 90% sure the shaft run-out is out of tolerance 4cyl v6 or 4.9. Thats just too many miles for a high performance center spring clutch.

The POSSIBLE solutions are:
1. Get your transmissions shaft run-out tested at Aamco (or where ever)
2. Get a lot lower milage transmission (mine was $50 from a grand am with 80k i believe)
3. Get a full disc clutch (not a 4or6puck) with a solid hub. This will reduce any vibration that could cause clutch failure depending on how out of tolerance the run-out is.

And if your clutch is fine and the runout is good then something is up with your throwout bearing, pressure plate, or hydralic systems.
Theres PLENTY PLENTY of information in this thread about my situation and you should be able to figure out what to do by reading the thread. I would strongly encourage finding a different transmission though.

quote Originally posted by FieroCustom: Man, just saw this and don't mean to jack this, but we are talking about Stage 3 Spec clutches here; and since I just received my SPEC Stage 3 clutch (ebay) AND I'm no clutch guru I snapped some pictures for the forum's expert opinion. What do you guys think of this clutch?...

I personally would never buy an used clutch unless I could first drive the car where it was before. Now that doesn't seem to be a Fiero clutch nor flywheel. For what car it is? Maybe the design for that car doesn't have the missing fingers in the PP.

I think the problem with my car is - "cross your fingers" syncros in the transmission from age. My transmission/clutch area did have some noise, but it wasn't loud at all. The problem with car is I can not take it out of gear, but if I push on the clutch and release, there are no strange noise, and it still seems to work fine. The car is stuck in first gear. There is some chatter with the clutch, but I would not call it excessive for a performace clutch.

I will snap some pics when I pull it apart, I have had the clutch in there for about 6k miles.

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: I personally would never buy an used clutch unless I could first drive the car where it was before. Now that doesn't seem to be a Fiero clutch nor flywheel. For what car it is? Maybe the design for that car doesn't have the missing fingers in the PP.

I have to agree about buying a used clutch and that it seems to be missing fingers.

I have been driving a 4.9 Fiero/Izusu setup for 3 years now daily with no issues with the transmission (car sees autox, 1/4 mile and 100' drags). But then, the tranny was pulled apart and inspected before going in. Sticking in any used tranny of unknown condition is a crap shoot.

I have also had a problem with the Spec disc on mine originally, they sent me a replacement disc of which I noticed that it was stamped out of a heavier gage steel than the previous one - so far 2 years on this one. The first one, the spring had shewed thier way through the sheet metal.

I have also had the Centerforce DF clutch in and that did last period - it would not hold when the power was put to it.

A buddy has so far had good luck with his 'stock' Dynomax clutch, it was new pior to the 4.9 swap so did not want to replace it till it was toasted. Still working after 2 years...

Well, Alex4mula, in answer to your question, you are correct that is most definately NOT a Fiero clutch or flywheel, it will however be going into my 1988 CJB T-top. That clutch and Fidanza flywheel is for a 2005 Cobalt... As for the three missing fingers, yes, that's the way the pressure plate is made, I thought it was funny to so I had to take a very close look at it. Anyway, I need to get back to my fabrication... I'll check back on this thread later.
~John

Im sorry but i bought a spec stage 2 clutch and it just got installed and it has a bad throwout bearing... and i called SPEC today and asked they said take pictures of it and send it in. So i spend 300 dollars on a clutch, get in instaled, spending money on that too, find out it has a bad throwout bearing have to spend more money to drop the transmission then spend more money to put it back it... and prob buy a different TB because i wouldnt trust to reinstall the one you send me after this is the 2nd spec clutch ive owned. How does that make sense???

Austin

quote Originally posted by Vendetta: Im sorry but i bought a spec stage 2 clutch and it just got installed and it has a bad throwout bearing... and i called SPEC today and asked they said take pictures of it and send it in. So i spend 300 dollars on a clutch, get in instaled, spending money on that too, find out it has a bad throwout bearing have to spend more money to drop the transmission then spend more money to put it back it... and prob buy a different TB because i wouldnt trust to reinstall the one you send me after this is the 2nd spec clutch ive owned. How does that make sense??? Austin

SPEC TOB's suck balls, tons of people have complaints about them, buy a new one from your parts store and throw out the SPEC one.

quote Originally posted by Vendetta: Im sorry but i bought a spec stage 2 clutch and it just got installed and it has a bad throwout bearing... and i called SPEC today and asked they said take pictures of it and send it in. So i spend 300 dollars on a clutch, get in instaled, spending money on that too, find out it has a bad throwout bearing have to spend more money to drop the transmission then spend more money to put it back it... and prob buy a different TB because i wouldnt trust to reinstall the one you send me after this is the 2nd spec clutch ive owned. How does that make sense??? Austin

Probably take pictures of the throwout bearing also, and share any pictures with the forum too.

quote Originally posted by Zac88GT: SPEC TOB's suck balls, tons of people have complaints about them, buy a new one from your parts store and throw out the SPEC one.

When I put my Stage III in, the SPEC TOB was exactly the same NSK part number that I've been getting from CarQuest and using without incident in all my previous clutch installs.

quote Originally posted by Will: When I put my Stage III in, the SPEC TOB was exactly the same NSK part number that I've been getting from CarQuest and using without incident in all my previous clutch installs.

Mine was the exact same number aswell but you could definatly feel a difference between them. The one I had gotten from spec did not feel as fully packed with grease as the other, and sure enough when i tried it out it was much noisier.

I drove my car today with the new cam, new clutch, and new transmission. It is awesome now! The chatter has completely gone away and I can take off at a normal rpm instead of revving it way up. Also, the new transmission shifts like a brand new car, I can't believe it. I should get many great miles out of my new setup.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Jeremy... Thanks for responding. Unless I'm badly mistaken, the F40 transmissions that are being used are nearly all "new, unused, surplus" stock, that GM sold off when they changed gear ratios. They were made available to several vendors on this forum, and they're all over e-Bay. There's not really a need to ever use one with any miles on it at all, unless you've just got to have those revised ratios. Alex's F40 may have been purchased used, since it was one of the earlier swaps, but still shouldn't be worn enough to frag a clutch disk. In my mind, it just doesn't wash. Regarding the email I sent to Spec... My rather terse comment regarding the state of the weather in hell being a factor in any future purchases was also fallout from a previous thread that was posted here, regarding a Spec 2 clutch that was installed behind a stock 2.8. Seems that the splined center hub was installed backwards, and caused the end of the release bearing sleeve of the transmission to be hammered to the point that the release bearing was rendered useless (among other things.) Spec continues (probably to this day) to either, A: acknowledge that there was (is?) a problem, but that it has been (will be?) corrected in any future product; or B: deny that this situation ever existed, and that the problem is "elsewhere". This seems to vary, depending upon who you happen to talk with when you call. For those who care, here's the link. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...060811-1-057878.html To summarize... We have a newly rebuilt tranny, damaged because of obviously incorrect construction of one of your clutches, and you guys got so pissed when the owner wouldn't just "suck it up" that you wouldn't even return the defective disc that he sent in for evaluation. If I remember correctly, I believe that that you offered him a 25% discount on a future purchase, but then you wouldn't even apply that discount to the replacement that he had purchased just a few days before you extended that "offer". How fscking disingenuous can you get?! People here have long memories. To the rest of the posters/readers... My apologies for dragging this off topic as it relates to the Stage 3, but the larger issue is still customer service, and it still seems to be sadly lacking.

Ohh wow, I am getting some press.

Yes, I was the one who had his clutch stolen by SPEC...read the thread he quoted, it is all there. I would love to hear the explanation of my situation. I have witnesses, including a very experienced transmission shop owner/mechanic, all of whom will attest to the fact that the problem was caused by the improperly made disk. I resent the implication that I installed the disk backwards, it is nearly impossible to do so without noticing the problem.

As I said in the thread, I know the clutch was out of warranty when the problem occurred, and if SPEC had told me TFB from the beginning, I would have just lived with it. After being told that I would be "taken care of" with the implication that the new clutch would be free, I was outraged with how things changed after the CC charge went through. SPEC's mistake directly cost me ~$1000, not including indirect costs like my time, the damage to my transmission, or gas to drive back and get the car.

I was really treated like crap, and I was very upset when it happened. Now that I am looking at a 3800 swap, I am wondering which clutch I will use. I really think that a stage 4 non-6-puck disk may be the best choice for my application, but after getting burned so damn hard last time, it is hard to justify giving SPEC another cent. I would love to hear why my clutch was stolen, and how it was "worn out" with photos of big amounts of friction material left.

I am sorry for being nasty with this post, I realize you probably weren't personally involved in my situation. The implication that I installed the disk backwards was a bit arrogant, though.

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More info at: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/043357.html