just took it out for the first spin in over eight years. i drove about six blocks and back. it's overheating big time. way past the red. i've filled the coolant per ogres instructions. it was fine sitting there ideling for awhile but as soon as i took it out it overheated. i made it back home just in time but now it won't start. almost like the battery is dead? what's going on here?

You may have siezed the engine from overheating. Let it cool down for a few hours and if you are lucky, it may start. If it does, don't let it get hot until you've looked at what may have caused the overheating in the first place. (Stuck thermostat, air bubble, water pump......)

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Rod Schneider, Woodstock, Ga.
"You can't have too many toys!"
1988 Fiero GT
1966 Porsche 911
Van's RV-6 airplane-under construction

it doesn't have a thermostat in it currently. i was trying to run it a little to get any bubbles out before putting it back in. i have a 2.8 here ready to go, so if the duke is shot...in goes the 2.8! i'll try to fire it up after dinner.

DO you know for sure that the fan is coming on? Without a thermostat installed, it could have an air bubble in it, or the waterpump is shot. Keep in mind this is advice from a shadetree mechanic. Scott

with the thermostat cap off, the coolant is bubbling out. could be just from heating up i guess. tomorrow i'm replacing the belts so that will be a good time to check the waterpump.

Change your oil

Collapsing original hoses, plugged up radiator, pinched coolant tubes, or water pump. My guess is the water pump. In another thread I thought you said the car hasn't had an oil change yet? I would have done that before going for any kind of spin.

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1984 Fiero SE

At this point you also have to consider a blown head gasket. A blown one can cause the coolent to bubble and overflow, and overheating is a great way to blow one.
Has coolent mixed with the oil? Does it spew out white exhaust, and even drops of water, even after it's warmed up? Do all four cylinders still have the same compression?

found part of the problem this morning. the belt had slipped off the water pump! the water pump feels good. there's no sloppy bearing feel to it and it feels like it's fairly new. i just replaced the belt on that. now i'm going out to put on a new a/c belt and new thermostat. the oil will be later today. i have a suspicion that the p/o changed the oil becuase it looks to be good (still slightly amber) on the dipstick. still, that could have been from many years ago. there is no oil in the coolant or vice versa. it does blow very little smoke on a cold start, but only is there for a few seconds. then it's clean. i'm fairly confident that i don't have a head gasket blown. it may be the fan is not coming on, so i'll check that out later today.

[This message has been edited by shawnkfl (edited 07-01-2007).]

Check your belt

Sounds like it threw the belt again. Possibly from you turning on the A/C.
The fan isn't supposed to kick on until somewhere around 230, but our gauges are pretty inacurate, so I don't know where it would show. Might be a good idea to buy a new fan switch just to be safe. Rodney Dickman sells a lower temp fan switch which will kick it on at a more reasonable 210.

[This message has been edited by Jax184 (edited 07-01-2007).]

the belts are still on. that's the first thing i checked. i'm changing the oil and filter in a minute, but that's not the problem, needs done anyway though. i guess my next purchase will be a fan switch then.

quote Originally posted by shawnkfl: ok. the temp gauge went to 220 and the fan didn't kick on. i threw the a/c on high to force the fan on. it did bring the temp down but the engine was running really rough and coolant was spitting out of the overflow cap. i shut the a/c off and the idle went to 3000 and stayed there. the volt meter dropped to nothing. when i kicked the a/c back in, it stalled. i'm letting it cool down now, but what is the problem now? before it got to 220 deg. she was purring like a kitten. oh, and while the engine was running rough, the ses light would flicker.

Does this not suggest a blown headgasket? At 220 you should not have coolant bubbling out, the stock fan doesn't even kick on until 230. Are you sure your radiator cap is good? And the correct one? Supposedly the parts listed in the Stant catalog are wrong so just asking for a cap can get you the wrong one. The correct ones are 10230 or 11230 Non-Vented.

I believe it should also be 15-16lb stamped right on it, mine is a 16lb.

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[This message has been edited by Xanth (edited 07-01-2007).]

i'll check the radiator cap shorlty. the coolant was bubbling out from the overflow bottle cap. not sure why. with a blown head gasket, shouldn't i see oil in the coolant or water in the oil? i just drained the oil and it's just oil that came out and i'm not seeing any oil in the coolant. i'll let it idle longer and see if the fan kicks in without messing with the a/c controls. first, i have to get the new oil in. off to do that now.

oh...and it took about a half hour ideling for the temp to get to 220.

[This message has been edited by shawnkfl (edited 07-01-2007).]

quote Originally posted by shawnkfl: i'll check the radiator cap shorlty. the coolant was bubbling out from the overflow bottle cap. not sure why. with a blown head gasket, shouldn't i see oil in the coolant or water in the oil? i just drained the oil and it's just oil that came out and i'm not seeing any oil in the coolant. i'll let it idle longer and see if the fan kicks in without messing with the a/c controls. first, i have to get the new oil in. off to do that now. oh...and it took about a half hour ideling for the temp to get to 220.

If the cap is bad, the system will not achieve enough pressure and the coolant will boil at a lower temp, it will never cool properly then. That could cause possibly your issue of coolant out the reservoir. Perhaps its sufficient for the low heat generated at idle, but can't keep up with the car driving. I thought there was one situation where a headgasket could be bad and not see signs in the coolant or oil. I may be wrong, but perhaps a very small leak could be over-pressurizing the coolant system. Have you tried pulling the plugs to check for any suspicious looking ones?

I myself am also not comfortable with the factory 230* setting on the fan, I usually will turn it on with the A/C if my temp crosses halfway.

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[This message has been edited by Xanth (edited 07-01-2007).]

If a head gasket goes bad between a coolent passage and the cylinder, you will have problems without (or with very little) mixing of oil and coolent. Air and exhaust will be forced into the cooling system, and the engine will begin to burn coolent.

quote Originally posted by Jax184: If a head gasket goes bad between a coolent passage and the cylinder, you will have problems without (or with very little) mixing of oil and coolent. Air and exhaust will be forced into the cooling system, and the engine will begin to burn coolent.

Thanks, thats what I was thinking of. Perhaps this is the problem.

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the radiator cap is a stant 16lb. it says 231 on it so i'm not sure what part number it is. i'll replace it anyway, just so i know what i have. the plugs are brand new. i haven't pulled any out to check them since i've replaced them, but i put new plugs and wires in a couple of weeks ago. i had the thermostat cap off when i first started it, but coolant started boiling out so i put it back on. i thought i may have an air lock but the rear is up on ramps, so i don't know now.

I would have to consider a headgasket failure in the manner Jax mentioned, that was the way I was thinking it can fail with little indication in the oil or the coolant. I believe that can be checked by doing a compression check? Never done it before though, someone would have to describe how.

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i'll grab a new head gasket and prepare for that. i may as well have the head rebuilt then correct? i mean, if i have to tear it down that far, why not?

Is it high-mileage? If so you may as well, I imagine a shop could better advise you there. I would just check to make sure its not warped or anything from overheating. Like I mentioned earlier checking the plugs and compression are I believe the ways to test for a bad gasket. A leaky gasket will cause the plugs in the affected cylinders to look very clean compared to the rest, that cylinder will also have less compression

[This message has been edited by Xanth (edited 07-01-2007).]

Some shops will put the cooling system under pressure and watch it to see if it drops. If it does, there's a leak in the system somewhere, such as the head gasket.
A blown head gasket would very likely give you steam, water and a sweet smell out of the exhaust.

i do have a compression tester but i have no clue as to how to use it. it was one of the things "i found on sale so i bought it" deals. i'm not going to mess with this duke much more though. i have a 2.8 that i want to drop in. i was just hoping to get by for awhile with the duke, but if it's just a money pit. it's not worth it in the end.

Looks like a good discription
http://www.custompistols.co...cles/compression.htm

i have it outside ideling right now. it idles awesome when it's cold. i'll report back in a few once it warms up.

*Gets home from work and grabs a bag of popcorn*

At least the oil is changed now.

Rodney's low-temp fan switch won't work on an 84 with AC. It uses a 'special' one, it's like $26 and has a weird rectangular connector. It's the one in the back of the head that sticks out toward the driver. Be glad your two-speed radiator fan works, it's somewhere around $200. The relay is that weird long one by the driver's side headlight motor, I don't think they're available anymore? It's GM part # 10032629 according to the 84 22P manual.

i grabbed all of the hoses. they were warm. hot near the thermostat housing, and i could feel coolant pulsing through them. i deffinately need a new radiator regardless. but, there is something more to this duke than just a new radiator. so i'm down to, pull it out and work on the V6 swap, or work on the duke until i'm ready for the V6. i still need a ECM, engine wiring harness, mounts, etc...or, where i was ready to go just a few days ago....part it out. i really need to concentrate on my choptop. i just got this with the hopes of using it for my daily driver. it's getting into a burden relationship though. i only work three miles from my house and this duke cannot make to the end of the block! it needs calipers. one or more are locked up. it needs a radiator. and it needs, possibly a head gasket and head rebuild and whatever else may be causing the overheating issue. the 2.8 swap will take more money i'm sure and more down time. in the meantime, i'm paying insurance on a car i've driven once. i could pull the radiator out of my 87 GT and put it in the 84 and replace the head gasket in the 84 and hope that helps. but should i?

If you have no oil in the coolant and no water in the oil the head is probably good. If it was a small gasket leak after it was shut down the water would leak back into to cylinder under pressure. Follow the procedure for burping the system, don't drive it around. Driving without a thermostat will not let the engine warm up to normal operating temp and cause the ECM to give improper information the the injector. By running without the thermostat there are many places for bubbles to settle into and cause the overheating you are describing. The boiling out of the water is normal at those temperatures. First top off the radiator then start the engine let it idle for several minutes, shut it down, and top of the water at the thermostat housing. Do this several times. When it stops taking water run it at a high idle for several minutes and top it off again. Put a 180 deg thermostat back in. Try that and let us know haw it does. I had the same problem in the 87 I just bought and this fixed it. Also replace the fan switch if the fan is not coming on.

ok guys, i'm back with more problems. same ones really. I installed a new temp sender and new coolant temp sensor. flushed the tubes out, installed new drivers side radiator hose front and rear. the passenger side front and rear both look and feel new still so i left them alone. i replaced the radiator, thermostat, thermostat cap, radiator cap (the correct one) and a new overfloe tank with new cap. then filled the radiator with coolant, and poured coolant into the t-stat housing until it couldn't take any more. i started the car just for a second to get some bubbles worked out, then added more coolant and installed the thermostat and cap. fired it up and let it idle. the temp gauge went past 220 and the fan still doesn't kick on. it will come on with the a/c, but not without. i did get a new fan relay, but the fools sold me a later year one instead of an 84.

a side note here...with the car cold and the t-stat cap off. coolant bubbles out and gets all over everything. shouldn't i be able to have the cap off and watch the coolant cycle? i cannot with this car. the coolant just comes out like a miniature volcano! bigger problems? or normal duke attitude?

Does Winaldl work with the '84? If it does, hook it up and see what the ECM temp sensor is doing. My gauge was showing in the red when the ECM temp sensor showed 195*. The fan did not kick on until 228* on the ECM temp sensor with a stock fan switch.

i'm not fortunate enough to have the means to hook up winaldl. no laptop here. right now, i'm cycling the coolant per ogres cave notes. i start it and let it run for 20 seconds or so, let it cool a bit, add coolant, repeat. it's not taking very much so i'm assuming most of the bubles are worked out of the system. i'll do it a few more times then run it up to temp and see what happens. this little duke purrs very smoothly though. i cannot wait to drive it around. newbfiero was kind enough to send me a new fuel injector and that seemd to smooth the duke out to like new. now this cooling issue, brake calipers and i'm all set!

If the coolent isn't circulating right, as in, there's an air pocket somewhere, the fan temp sensor might not be seeing how hot the engine is. If the wiring to the sensor is bad, it won't be able to turn on the fan. And you said they gave you an '85 fan relay? The '84 uses a two speed fan, which might mean it needs a different relay.