Am I the only one who have it whit the Key ..I run mine whit two years of long driving and I never had a problem so far back then .I never did come to have it fix back to a normal start up temp ,that was just the way I bought it back then ..I wish you good luck to find in it shawnkfl And thx for the nice comment ..Rob

[This message has been edited by Newbfiero (edited 07-15-2007).]

i just took out the fan switch, cleaned the treads really well so i know it has a good ground. let it idle and it went up to the red. if the fan kicks on when i turn on the A/C, the relay is good right? it's just not kicking on by itself for whatever reason. i have the rear of the car on ramps to force any air bubbles back to the thermostat housing. there isn't anymore air coming out of the system now, but it still will not trip the fan without the A/C on. one last attempt will be to wire the fan to just come on when the engine is running and run it around a few miles. any issues after that, it's a goner.

I can't be sure about the relay. Also, you'll have some air trapped in the heater core. It would be a good idea to bleed it.

i cracked the heater core lines per ogres instructions. even an air pocket in the heater core, the fan should still kick shouldn't it? i'm too frustrated with this one anyway. i've posted in the mall to part it out. i really appreceite everyone helping out with this. i'm just drained mentally and finacially with this one and i should be working on my choptop project instead. i just thought i could make a decent daily driver out of this one quickly.

The fan should come on even with air in the heater core. I'm still guessing there's a problem with the wiring from the fan switch, or that relay is wrong.

the new relay i have is not for an 84, so i cannot even use it. so right now, the original one is still installed. i'm confused about the relay though because the fan does come on with the A/C on. unless when the A/C is on, the current bypasses the relay? i have a gut feeling that this car is very close to being right. i'm just out of time and money with it. which sucks. if i had a garage to keep it in and drop the insurance, i'd keep it and completely restore it.

The '84 has a two speed fan, and I'm not sure how it works.

You should be able to ground out the fan switch wires and have the fan come on. If not, the relay or the wires are bad.

so, if i took off the fan switch connector, would i just jump the terminals with a paperclip?

Connect the fan switch wire to ground. That simulates the switch itself going to ground at the proper temp. The fan will run whenever the key is "ON".

My question is has the overheat light ever come on? It operates off the gauge sensor using a separate circuit. It should come on at 260*. If the gauge was past 260* and the overheat light is not on, then some circuit testing is in order. Rodney Dickman sells a gauge test lead that has resistors between 2 alligator clips. One side tests the 100* setting and the other the 260*. Of course, if you get the resistors yourself, you could make something pretty quick and cheap.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: *Gets home from work and grabs a bag of popcorn* At least the oil is changed now. Be glad your two-speed radiator fan works, it's somewhere around $200. The relay is that weird long one by the driver's side headlight motor, I don't think they're available anymore? It's GM part # 10032629 according to the 84 22P manual.

His 84 2 speed relay may not work. IIRC there was nothing special about the 84 fan, it just had some big ass resistors to run it slower on low speed. The fan switch kicked on a low speed first, and then the higher one at 228F if temp still kept going up. AC kicked on higher fan speed.

I had a problem with my 84 in 2001 where the relay was (1/2) burnt out. The gauge would climb and climb and the fan would never come on, but it would with AC.
First found out two speed fan switch was ****ed, so I had to get a good used one since I couldn't find it new.
Then found that it still wouldn't trigger the low fan. Disassembled relay case under drivers side headlight and found "low" relay coil was toast. Soldered a jumper to the "HI" relay so that any signal would just run the "HI" fan speed. Problem solved.

Good Luck!
Kurt

i saw on ogres site that you can rewire the 84 harness to use the newer relays. i may try that before i bail out of this. i would like to try the ground method first though. that seems like it would at least get this running until i read up more on the rewiring. do i just take off the fan switch (located next to the valve cover, drivers side, correct?) connector and jump the spade lugs inside of it? creating a "loop"? or what wire(s) do i ground to try that? there are two wires for the fan switch connector. does it matter which one i ground?

[This message has been edited by shawnkfl (edited 07-16-2007).]

The idea is to connect one or both wires in the connector to ground, not to each other. One is the low speed, one is the high speed. the fan should turn on when the ignition is on and either wire is grounded. If it doesn't, the relay or the wiring is bad. If only one triggers it, then connect the two wires to each other and reconnect it to the sensor. This way the switch will turn the fan on full instead of starting with low.

thank you. now i think i understand. i'll hook up a ground tonight then just touch it to the connector lugs to see what's goin on. once i get it figured out, i'll do a more permant fix. i'll report what i find after i get home from work.

I think you'll have to have the ignition key on for the fan to work even if you ground the green/white wire.

i grounded the green /white wire and the fan comes on with the ignition now. what color is the other wire to ground?

edit to add.....i just found the other wire. green /white is low speed and green/black is high speed. both turn on the fan when grounded so....what does this tell me? bad relay?

[This message has been edited by shawnkfl (edited 07-16-2007).]

If they turn on the fan when grounded, but the fan doesn't come on when the car is actually hot (low speed comes on at 221 degrees F and high speed turns on at 246 degrees F according to the manual) than I would suspect a bad temp switch. According to the electrical diagram in my 84 manual, both of those wires go through the relay in order to get to the fan. The circuit is open (in other words fan not connected to ground) below the above mentioned temperates, and the circuit is closed or complete at those temperatures. You can also see in the diagram where the AC Control Head bypasses the switch entirely and grounds the relay (completing the circuit and turning on the fan) and still goes through the relay. So it doesn't bypass the relay, it goes through it too, meaning the relay must be good (unless it's half burnt out like Kurt said, but I doubt it).

SO I say bad fan switch.

quote (located next to the valve cover, drivers side, correct?)

Since you're grounding the wires and getting the fan to work I'll assume you found the right one, but I'll type this anyway. The one NEXT to the valve cover (pointing straight up in the air) is the temperature switch, which operates the gauge. The FAN switch is sticking out of the back of the engine towards the driver, and controls the fan. The coolant temperature sensor is the one that sticks out of the thermostat housing and controls the computer.

So there are 3 temperature sensors/switches/whatever:
-coolant temp sensor (computer)
-coolant temp switch (gauge in dash)
-coolant fan switch (radiator fan)



------------------

1984 Fiero SE

[This message has been edited by RWDPLZ (edited 07-16-2007).]

Your power problem means it's time to recheck all the major power connectors, the fuses, and the fusible links. Sounds like you bumped something loose, or shorted something and blew a fuse.

quote Originally posted by shawnkfl: ok. now the temp seems to stay around 210. it's holds right at the first white line on the temp gauge anyway. but another problem reared it's head. for some reason the voltage dropped off. i shut it down and it won't start. seems the battery is drained. what's going on with that? it can't be just because the fan was on could it? i also noticed the display on my stereo went out. it still works, just no display. could my alternator be shot and not charging the battery? and last question...are the V6 and duke alternators the same?

It could have drained if it was just sitting there with the engine off an you were doing things with the electrical system with the ignition turned to on.

Get out a voltmeter (or buy one, great investment for $10ish) and check the voltage at the positive and negative battery terminals. Should be roughly 12.4V with the car off, and with the car running, 14.4V (meaning the alternator is charging the battery).

For the alternator question: an 84 alternator has the mounting points on opposite ends of the casing, 180 degrees apart (or at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock positions) and uses a V-belt pulley. An alternator from an 85-87 Fiero V6 should be a direct swap. An 88 V6 alternator (which I put in my 84) needs the pulley swapped from the serpentine belt style, and the electrical connector switched from the two-pronged one to the L-shaped one.

"The FAN switch is sticking out of the back of the engine towards the driver"...i haven't located this one then. i've replaced the one sticking straight up, next to the valve cover and the one threaded at the base of the t-stat housing. i'll have to find the fan switch one. i didn't see it when i was looking for everything. i took the alternator out tonight because i pass an advance auto on my way to work, so i'll just stop and have them test it for me. a bonus was, my dogbone bushings are shot, which i couldn't tell. the sleeves fell out and the rubber came out just by pushing it out with my hand. but at least i know i need to replace those. where are main power lines to check? other than the battery to alternator?

quote Originally posted by shawnkfl: "The FAN switch is sticking out of the back of the engine towards the driver"...i haven't located this one then. i've replaced the one sticking straight up, next to the valve cover and the one threaded at the base of the t-stat housing. i'll have to find the fan switch one. i didn't see it when i was looking for everything.

I can't find a good picture, but it's literally like 3 inches from the gauge sender. Check the wire colors at each sender, maybe someone switched them around?

quote i took the alternator out tonight because i pass an advance auto on my way to work, so i'll just stop and have them test it for me. a bonus was, my dogbone bushings are shot, which i couldn't tell. the sleeves fell out and the rubber came out just by pushing it out with my hand. but at least i know i need to replace those. where are main power lines to check? other than the battery to alternator?

They can sell you a new fan switch too. Also, at least on my car, when I took the alternator out, the engine shifted back, and in order to reattach the dogbone from the engine bracket to the trunkwall bracket, I had to get a ratcheting strap and attach it from one of the engine lift bracets to the trunk release bracket in order to bring the engine back towards the trunk.

my engine didn't seem to move, but my bushings were so shot, it propabaly isn't where it should be anyway. i'll hunt for the switch tomorrow after work.

If you found two wires, one of which makes the fan run slowly, and another which makes the fan run quickly, you've found the fan wiring. There's not anything else in the engine bay which would do that, as far as I know.

quote Originally posted by shawnkfl: my coolant temp sensor doesn't look like the one in that pic though. mine has a white, round looking connector on the end. it matched the one i took out so i guess it's correct. just noticed...the pic is a newer model engine.

Does one of your sensors look like this? :

close to that one. except its white plastic and has another round part on top of the "bell" looking part. they tried to sell me that one but it didn't look like the one i took out, so they ordered the one i needed.


this one is what my coolant temp sensor looks like

[This message has been edited by shawnkfl (edited 07-16-2007).]

Well that's one problem, then. That one is the fan switch for non-AC cars. The correct one is part # TSU149 from Advance. Here's their picture:



Compare that to the black and white one I posted above labeled FAN, same part. It should have those two wires (dark green/white & light green/black) going to it.

that's the one that matched what i took out. the connector for it doesn't work with any of the other ones. unless, like you say, replace the connector as well. so now i'm confused. is the one i got not the right one? the web site says it's a sensor but is it really a switch? the connector plugs straight into the (sensor?) and then has a white plastic housing that snaps over the connection, i assume to keep it connected. do i have the first one off the line and it's different from everyone elses? lol.....i knew this car has it in for me!

Does the connector look like this?



^ That is a fan switch connector.

There's one other (connector?) I've seen on a FEW Indy pace cars:


Mine is 24,421 so it's (probably) earlier than yours

[This message has been edited by RWDPLZ (edited 07-16-2007).]

if memory serves me, i believe that my connector looks like that one. then it has a separate, white plastic housing that snaps over it after it's connected. i don't have a pic of it but i'll get one tomorrow. i don't know where my car falls into the production line. it's black so i know it was later in the year. the first round were red or white if i'm not mistaken. then black and siver were added.

Hey I found a better picture of where they all go, on the Fiero Store website:

that big white (cream) color thing right behind the fuel filter is the cap i'm talking about in that pic above.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: Well that's one problem, then. That one is the fan switch for non-AC cars. The correct one is part # TSU149 from Advance. Here's their picture: Compare that to the black and white one I posted above labeled FAN, same part. It should have those two wires (dark green/white & light green/black) going to it.

I'll bet its this one thats bad. The plastic was rotted off of mine and because of the heat in that area, made it weak.

Josh

i had my alternator tested today. i was told that it does charge but it has a bad diode. i'll get a new one anyway but that doesn't tell me why my battery drained while the car was ideling. so it seems i have another issue to find. my battery is new too. doesn't mean it can't be bad but i'm leaning toward it being good. other than that, i don't know where to even look for what's draining the battery. if the alternator is charging, what's causing the battery to drain faster than it can take a charge? damn i'm really starting to despise this car. i get one problem sorted out and another pops up out of the blue!

A bad diode will make the alternator consume power. You can rebuilt it for cheaper than replacing it.

a new one is $79.00 + tax at advance auto. i'll shop around before i buy one though. i've never rebuilt an alternator so i don't know what that all entails. i do know that my alternator needs new bearings too. it feels really sloppy to me.

I get mine rebuilt locally for about $35. I bet you have a similar shop near you that can rebuild it.

The diode trio is fairly easy to replace, the bearings I'm not sure. My old one had the same thing happen, diode trio went bad and drained the battery to nothing, and the bearings sounded horrible.

The diode trio is $2.51 from Rockauto.com, the bearings are $6.86 and $4.56

I made this list when I converted mine over to the CS alternator:

84 CS Alternator Conversion parts List:

AC Declo rebuilt Alternator, part # 334-2284, $81.79 + $5.00 core from Rockauto.com
AC Delco Belt, part # 15500, $9.25 from Rockauto.com
AC Delco Alternator Harness Converter, part # 8077, $18.00 from NAPA online, part # ECHEC80

Pulley Nut: Use 24mm socket

If happen to need a dogbone for yours pls let me know ..I sent you one ..Rob