We were just talking about this car on the kit car forum today.... Jim, if you are seeing this, there is a guy who says he will build it for you if you need someone to engineer it...
Courtesy of AusFiero
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02:52 AM
RCR Member
Posts: 4451 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002
We were just talking about this car on the kit car forum today
Small world, eh? I saw the rendering and thought "Now that looks familiar" Redo the Viper front and that would be killer. I like Aus's roadster look.
Patrick: It is my plan to do it one day. I thought it might be better to build a pre-made kit first for the experience. Now I just have to save up. All of the designs I did were based on a non-stretch Fiero. I figured it was going to be enough work on the body, no need to make it harder. I really like the red one, but here is the one I'd build:
Sorry to hijack your thread. Please carry on
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08:43 AM
Apr 28th, 2004
Patrick Horne Member
Posts: 144 From: Ruston, LA, USA Registered: Nov 2001
Wow, you guys caught that one quick! I couldn't find the original picture to post, nor was I sure who actually had the site even WITH the picture anymore, but I figured somebody probably would catch it quickly enough! My model needed a lot more work on the rear end and the ...non-notchback deck (grasping at straws on that one), but I was using the Fiero windshield and windows and everything, just to play with the idea.
All in all, it was just kind of a wasted effort since I wasn't going to be able to do the kit anyway, and it was somebody else's idea first, so I couldn't do it and feel completely right about it. It would be a sweet kit though. I'd probably buy one if it would be produced, but the last time I talked to the guy about it, he said that he had lost a lot of money at the time and didn't see it being produced any time soon, so...who knows.
RCR: The blue car's sweet too! And here's food for thought (or at least my own illogical reasoning): wouldn't you rather make a car that you designed and could really mess with as opposed to somebody else's kit that you'd be worried about messing up due to the lack of original panels? I don't know, I think that's just me. Also, no worries for hijacking the thread; it happens all the time anyway!
I'll try to post some more images by this weekend, but I've got a lot of stuff that I've gotta catch up on over the next three days, so I'll update when I can.
------------------ Patrick Horne
[This message has been edited by Patrick Horne (edited 04-28-2004).]
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12:43 AM
RCR Member
Posts: 4451 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002
Patrick: My biggest concern is that I have no real fiberglass experience. I've read just about all there is to read on the web, but the only glass work I've done is on my dash conversion. I thought that using an existing kit would teach me more about flanging and mounting, and how things really go together. Besides, I really want to get my car on the road. I've only driven it around the block once in almost two years. Of course I want to see how yours goes. Maybe you can inspire me to go for it.
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07:52 AM
May 8th, 2004
Patrick Horne Member
Posts: 144 From: Ruston, LA, USA Registered: Nov 2001
Just thought I'd post a couple of images on what I've done with the car since the last time I posted. I've not really had too much time to work on this as classes are becoming a little more the workload than I was expecting.
The model still looks a little rough, and there's a few parts that I've still got left to do, but I probably won't really work on the additions until the car is built. If you've worked in a foundry or anything where you have to pull the final product off of a mold, you know you have to be careful about how you actually build the mold. This has been a steady consideration while the model what being built, so there's a lot of things that simply are not going to be able to be finished until the fiberglass is being laid up.
Here's the latest. Hopefully I'll start cutting the plywood sometime in the next couple of weeks to make the basic jig, but we'll see how things work out.
That's all for now. I'll post if anything new comes up.
------------------ Patrick Horne
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06:20 PM
May 19th, 2004
RCR Member
Posts: 4451 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002
Sorry, I haven't updated anything. This is finals week in my classes, and I'll be going out of town from the 20th until the 29th on a diving trip to Cozumel.
I've got the week off after that, so I'll have something new to post by then
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04:15 PM
Fie Ro Member
Posts: 3735 From: Soest, The Netherlands Registered: Sep 2001
Don't worry. I'm nowhere near losing sight of this project yet. School just gets to take top priority whenever final weeks roll around. And believe me, this trip will be a much needed break.
Oh and to make sure I don't lose sight of my goal, I've got several images by my computer that I end up seeing everyday, and everytime I see them I think "Wow, that's just a badass car..." Fun stuff...
Catch you guys next week
------------------ Patrick Horne phorne_tca@yahoo.com
"The 'Enter' key is sometimes the difference between somebody following your example, or having them not."
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12:21 AM
marcustre Member
Posts: 128 From: north florida Registered: Jan 2003
Here is a look at a guy who is making one similar, using several diff car parts. I love this look, and i hope to someday do something like this. I know its not what you are looking for, but just wanted to pass some pics of this car..... i have seen them on the forum before, i just love the look
qwik
------------------ 88 TTop coupe (CJB #95), 96 3.4DOHC/5 speed in progress
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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09:53 PM
PFF
System Bot
May 29th, 2004
Patrick Horne Member
Posts: 144 From: Ruston, LA, USA Registered: Nov 2001
I'm back. Great vacation, but leaves me with a lot to catch up with.
I like the fact that the pictures above were done actually using a stock body and starting from there. Good place to start, I think. The guys car looks great so far, and hopefully I'll be able to find the final product when they complete it.
I'm planning on working this next week to get the 88 moved so that the northstar can get installed and out of the shop, because until then, I can't do anything with the body as I'm quickly running out of room (especially with three spare engines and an extra cut up cradle and other accessories laying around... ).
I'm going to continue to work on the model for the time being and get everything fine tuned the best that I can and go ahead and slice it up for the jig. I'll post something soon.
------------------ Patrick Horne phorne_tca@yahoo.com
"The 'Enter' key is sometimes the difference between somebody following your example, or having them not."
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12:10 AM
Patrick Horne Member
Posts: 144 From: Ruston, LA, USA Registered: Nov 2001
Hi guys, This is my first post on your forum so I hope you don't mind my jumping in here. I really like what you are doing and I think you are on a great track with the Chrysler Concept car.
I have been building my own car, from scratch since late 2001 so maybe I can help out with any specific questions you might have.
I am currently in the bodywork phase (plug building) of my project, having finished the chassis several months ago. I designed my body from scratch in 3D Studio Max and output sections onto paper templates. Then I used the templates to make ribs. 3D Studio has a nice feature which is the 'Section Tool'. It creates polylines out of anything that crosses its path. They also have a 30 day full demo of the entire software package. SO ... If you are completing your model in some other package that doesn't create sections, you can still output your mesh, import it into Max and create your sections there. Then you can output them as illustrator files or as dxf's to be plotted.
You may want to read through my website. I have a lot of data there. I am still transferring old articles and photos over from a previous site, and adding new articles as I continue the bodywork. So there is new content being added every day.
Sgraber: Thanks for the offer! I'm sure I'll end up running into some things that I just won't have any idea how to do. It's also nice to know that somebody else is starting from the 3d program and working up. That gives me some hope. Also, you're car is...well, like he said above: Wow. Very nice design and it looks like it's coming along great. Keep up the good work!
Everbody else: I haven't forgotten about this thread or anything. I'm just swamped with classes until July 10th, and I've still gotta get the Northstar running and out of my work area before I can start on the body. So basically I'm at a stand still for the moment. Believe me, I'm posting something as soon as I get somewhere with it, so stay tuned.
------------------ Patrick Horne phorne_tca@yahoo.com
"The 'Enter' key is sometimes the difference between somebody following your example, or having them not."
Okay, okay, so this might not be under the technical side of things, and it really should be in a kit car forum instead, but I thought the PFF group might like to follow this thread a bit, so I'll keep posting on this thread as long as I'm allowed.
I saw the car over the weekend. Un freaking believable.
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03:27 PM
Patrick Horne Member
Posts: 144 From: Ruston, LA, USA Registered: Nov 2001
I saw it Jan @ the Detroit auto show. That car blew my ****ing mind. I'm not a huge chrysler fan so I was not expecting that kind of a car at all. Your project is cool keep up the god work I'm interested in the final product.
Drew
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11:48 PM
Jun 28th, 2004
RCR Member
Posts: 4451 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002
Patrick, good to see you're still going. I check in every now and then to see. As for the car, I'd imagine it's touring the show car circuit. Look for it in a town near you (j/k)
Steve: Excellent work. It's been a while since I checked your site. You've made great progress. I'll have to make it a regular stop. Your car looks a lot like Alan Bertwistle's Meercat : http://www.desicodesign.com/meerkat/ Both are too cool....
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03:22 PM
PFF
System Bot
Jul 12th, 2004
Fie Ro Member
Posts: 3735 From: Soest, The Netherlands Registered: Sep 2001
I got the '88 moved (finally), but that's about it. I'm still waiting to find out whether SPEC is going to make the flywheels for us Northstar guys or not. Hope so, 'cause I'm needing to get this N* up and running quick-like and in a hurry.
I'm steady thinking about this body and steady being pissed at the fact that I CAN'T WORK ON IT YET!!
I'll post something as soon as I get something done. I'm still trying to work out the little details of printing the ribs to the correct size for the full-scale body. Still working on that.
------------------ Patrick Horne phorne_tca@yahoo.com
"The 'Enter' key is sometimes the difference between somebody following your example, or having them not."
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06:26 PM
Aug 2nd, 2004
shop_rat45 Member
Posts: 3271 From: Lapeer, Michigan Registered: Mar 2004
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I've still not gotten any further. I've been working for the past few weeks, so there's not a whole that I can do with it. We're all still waiting to find out what Spec has done about the custom flywheels and clutches for the N*, and I'm still waiting on word about the ECM getting reprogrammed. Pushing an almost 6 month job here...
It's really starting to look like I'm not even going to be able to get hardly into this thing by the time September or October roll around, which really kind of ticks me off. I really hate having to wait on other people for stuff that I needed two months ago...
Anyway, I've still not forgotten about this project by any means (I've got a picture of the real ME Four-Twelve posted by my computer which keeps me going ). On a side note, I'm getting married in June, so when exactly I'm going to squeeze working on this in with that whole ordeal, I have NO idea...
Keep checking back (or at least glance at the thread whenever it ends up back at the top of the list... I've not forgotten at all!
------------------ Patrick Horne phorne_tca@yahoo.com
"The 'Enter' key is sometimes the difference between somebody following your example, or having them not."
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12:55 PM
Mr. Pat Member
Posts: 1860 From: Melbourne, VIC Australia Registered: Apr 2003
Thats incredible man. That has to be one of the best looking exotics ive ever seen(that and the S7)Keep up the good work. I hope it all works out for you,
How old are you BTW?
------------------ 1986 GT, LT1/4T60E http://hometown.aol.com/ptfiero/index.html On the forum https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/045554.html more in depth look http://dtcc.cz28.com/LT1build/index.htm
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04:29 PM
Aug 4th, 2004
Patrick Horne Member
Posts: 144 From: Ruston, LA, USA Registered: Nov 2001
Okay kids. It's been a while since I've posted anything on here, but everything's starting to get rolling again, now that I've got access to the welding machines again. Obviously, my deadline got blown out of the water, so I've had to abondon the project as my senior design study. I'm kinda glad, because now I'm not going to be as worried if I screw something up along the way.
Okay, here's where I stand. I've worked on the modelling and gotten it down just about to the point of where I think I like it. I've decided to redo the initial model from the 3D model that I posted earlier. What's the point, you might ask? Well, accuracy, really. The model looks right in all aspects and matches pretty much every image that I can find of the original ME Four-Twelve. (I don't have any rendered images as of yet, but I'll try to post in the next few days.)
Here's the plan. I'm going to take the ribbing from the 3D model car (the vertical slices) and do a 1/4th scale model of it, as a shell only, in fiberglass. I'm going to go ahead and work out the body's final little details in the model as well as place the lines for the doors and all other openings. This will allow me to do a bit of backwards engineering.
I've got the model of the Fiero frame finished in 3D. I'm going to start by building a balsa model of the Fiero's frame, place the ME Four-Twelve's body shell over the frame model and so I can mock up a new frame to fit the 16" wheelbase stretch and figure out exactly how the car's going to fuction with the twisting and what not of an additional 16" of dead space.
In order to counteract the torsion problems created by having the new frame so long, I've decided that the inside of the engine bay is going to be lined with carbon fiber, both for weight/strength (good for keeping the twisting down) and for clean looks (since this is supposedly a $400,000 car, right? )
I'm still working out a LOT of little details, as you might've caught from some other posts that I've made over the past three months. The biggest issue right now is trying to find a 20x12.5" rim that's got twelve spokes, looks like the OEM rim and THEN find out the depth of the rim so I can find out the size I need for the suspension. See what I mean about little details?
So that's where I'm at. I'm sorry I haven't been posting much over the past few months, but hey, we all get sidetracked and behind. Deal with it.
More pics to come soon. If anybody has any suggestions on how to do the part above any better or anymore engineer-like, I'm all ears. Any help is good help.
P.S. - Got my chip for the Northstar back from being reprogrammed about an hour ago. With that project out of the way, it won't be long until the body starts going up. Can't wait!
------------------ Patrick Horne phorne_tca@yahoo.com
"Yep."
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03:32 PM
tesmith66 Member
Posts: 7355 From: Jerseyville, IL Registered: Sep 2001
Don't worry. Whenever I get everything up (and a server that'll support it) and working the way I want it to, I'm going to make the 3D model of the space frame free to whoever wants it. Right now, it's kind of a "loose" model, since I didn't bother with the suspension system and all that yet. That will come in time though.
I'm going to make it available in Maya (obviously), 3D Studio Max, and AutoCAD (for those who really need it).
But you're not getting my balsa model!!!
------------------ Patrick Horne phorne_tca@yahoo.com
"Yep."
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06:18 PM
Sep 16th, 2004
tesmith66 Member
Posts: 7355 From: Jerseyville, IL Registered: Sep 2001
I would need it in parasolid, iges, step 203 or 214, or DXF. I can do AutoCAD dwg, too. I would be pulling it into UniGraphics (the same software GM uses).
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09:51 AM
PFF
System Bot
Patrick Horne Member
Posts: 144 From: Ruston, LA, USA Registered: Nov 2001
How in the WORLD did you get your hands on a copy of UniGraphics?
I'm going to post it in DXF and DWG format, just for the sheer fact that so many programs can import those two file types. As for the other formats, I'm going to stick with Maya Binary (.mb), 3DS (.3ds), and AutoCAD, because it's going to be free. If I were selling it, it might be a different story.
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08:39 PM
Oct 2nd, 2004
RCR Member
Posts: 4451 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002
How in the WORLD did you get your hands on a copy of UniGraphics?
I'm going to post it in DXF and DWG format, just for the sheer fact that so many programs can import those two file types. As for the other formats, I'm going to stick with Maya Binary (.mb), 3DS (.3ds), and AutoCAD, because it's going to be free. If I were selling it, it might be a different story.
I'm a mechanical design engineer at Boeing. I use it at work.
------------------ 1986 SE 350 V8
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01:24 PM
Nov 18th, 2004
Patrick Horne Member
Posts: 144 From: Ruston, LA, USA Registered: Nov 2001
Yeah, I think it's actually been more than 6 weeks actually.
It's been the busiest quarter of school that I've ever had, so as for right now, finishing school has been my main concern. But I (finally) found out tonight that I actually /am/ graduating. Actually, I'm graduating THIS weekend (November 20th) so...whoo hoo!!!
Hopefully I'll have some time after I graduate to get some stuff done on the car. I'm selling my '02 MR2 Spyder to pay for the construction of the ME412, so believe me, this is still definantly in the works. Everytime I get the slightest break, my mind always drifts to this car, and then to sleep (which usually wins me over).
Anyway, to answer your question, yes I realize it's been a while since anything's been done, but I'm planning on working on it again very soon.
About the only thing that's changed is that I've scrapped the wooden space frame model for the Fiero and am working on a newer version out of steel (which, if anybody has priced steel lately, has gotten to be bloody expensive). The wooden one fell apart after trying to twist it to figure out the torsional stability of it. Aparently the front end was pretty stable but the rear wasn't glued together very well, so it kinda fell apart. So steel it is. At 1/4 scale, it should work much better, and I'll be able to get a much better idea of whether it's going to hold up under the 16" stretch or not.
The more and more I look at the suspension of this thing, the more I start to think that the front end needs to be widened out by at least a couple of inches. Found the correct rims for the ME-412, at a mere $750 per rim, and also another $450 per tire, which the ONLY company that makes the right size tire is Michelin, so that kinda limits my options. Oddly enough, the Michelin tire is ONLY used on the ME-412... Go figure.
I think I'm going to have to use a C5 Corvette windshield as well, but I've not plugged that one into the modeling program yet due to a lack of time. Sometime soon though, I should know whether or not it'll work. I've got the specs for a custom windshield, but I don't know of anybody to make it for me so that it'd actually conform to DOT/federal regulations. If anybody knows of one, I'm all ears.
I'm going to post another couple of threads on the forum tonight about some other questions that've been floating in my head, but they'll be in General Discussion, so if you're interested, check them out. I really could use the help on them. (Look for "Nyliner Bushings" and "Carbon Fiber PSI strength" if you're really interested.)
That's about it. So, until next time...
Later!
------------------ Patrick Horne phorne_tca@yahoo.com
It would be a sweet kit though. I'd probably buy one if it would be produced, but the last time I talked to the guy about it, he said that he had lost a lot of money at the time and didn't see it being produced any time soon, so...who knows.
