Yeah, I was worried about the resolution my self, but if you "skin" or program your own interface...no problem just optimize for the display your using, but agreed you wouldn't want to use IE or anything with a traditional GUI.
DustoneGT, It might not be a bad thing not doing it right away, now that they have the new core out(at least it's out for sure over-seas) the speed increases should come rather quickly(at least I hope)
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10:38 PM
DustoneGT Member
Posts: 1274 From: The U.S. Superstate Registered: Dec 2002
Yep, the clocks should definitely rock on the new nehemiah cores.
does anybody have any ideas on mounting a 15" LCD monitor in the car? For resolution concerns a real monitor might be a good idea. I have already decided to use a laptop style touch-pad between my power window switches for a mouse, and hiding a keyboard under the passenger seat for occasional use, so I wont need a touchscreen.
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10:45 PM
DustoneGT Member
Posts: 1274 From: The U.S. Superstate Registered: Dec 2002
The newer Via Epia M boards have the 6-channel sound. So there is no need for an add-on sound card. There's really no need for any add-on cards, unless you want wireless ethernet, or a TV/AM/FM tuner. And even then you could use a USB wireless adaptor.
Use STR (suspend to RAM) instead of STD (suspend to disc). The computer will recover from STR mode faster and will use less power in STR mode. The more RAM the computer has, the smaller the swapfile (assuming a Windows OS) will be. Smaller swapfiles mean less hard drive usage.
The USB FM Tuner ds21 posted seems to need a line-ion jack. All the onboard 5.1 surround mobos seems to use the line-in and mic jacks as the rear and sub/centre jacks. How would I get a mic AND 5.1 surround sound? It looks like I'd have to go with a PCI 5.1 card.
Also, I have another question that hasn't been addressed yet (that I've seen) How much power do the computers draw in suspend or sleep mode? Will they drain the battery overnight? Two or three days? Suspend to RAM mode needs to keep power to the computer, however, hibernate mode allows the computer to be unplugged. Will an inverter draw more power than it needs to provide?
Sorry for the barrage of questions, I'm very interested in this thread.
Kris Duck, Good point on the line-in/5.1 thing, might have to go with a PCI tuner,
I think the boards draw only milliwatts of power in suspend or sleep mode, but I myself am going with hibernate, I only got 128/megs of ram so it shuts down pretty quickly, I've got it to boot up pretty quick too, at least I can live with it, I'm running W2k right now, might upgrade to XP.
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09:15 AM
Apr 29th, 2003
Bradbitz11 Member
Posts: 1826 From: Kawkawlin, MI Registered: Dec 2002
You could mount an LCD panel in the headliner, or if you want to get rid of your map pouch in the passenger side..
I was at powerramma (local car show) and saw a civic that had a bunch of EQ's in the headliner area.. It was kinda neat. LCD panels arent that much thicker.. but you would loose your sunroof, if you had one in the first place.
JZ
------------------ - 2.8v6, 5spd - no cat, msd ignition/coil, K&N
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11:13 PM
May 2nd, 2003
Wipe0ut Member
Posts: 1524 From: Mankato, MN Registered: May 2002
I built my computer myself using a Shuttle XPC SN41G2 barebones as a starting point. I picked mine up from www.newegg.com for $345 (mobo, power supply, case). It has one AGP and one PCI. It has onboard video (dualhead with s-video out) and onboard 5.1 sound (which is really good, surprisingly!).
A simple 12V power supply won't work because you need power on the 5V rail, as well as some other things to make it work normally (power good, -12, -5, ground, etc.) I think my computer would be one of the best solutions for use in the Fiero. Put a wireless NIC in the PCI slot, use the onboard 5.1 and onboard video, and you're set! I suppose if you were really concerned about space you could make the case an inch or two shorter, if you weren't going to put a DVD drive in (which I would, if this was going in my Fiero..) The cooling system that comes with the XPC is more than adequate, so that wouldn't need to be modified. You'd need to get a signal into the computer via a UPS to give it enough time to hibernate, but that wouldn't be a huge deal. I think the biggest problem would be supplying power. The XPC comes with a 1U 200W power supply which is adequate. I wouldn't try going much less than that, though.
Sorry if I repeated some stuff or left stuff out; I'm really tired, and going to bed now, as a matter of fact. Goodnight
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01:18 AM
Wipe0ut Member
Posts: 1524 From: Mankato, MN Registered: May 2002
The newer Via Epia M boards have the 6-channel sound. So there is no need for an add-on sound card. There's really no need for any add-on cards, unless you want wireless ethernet, or a TV/AM/FM tuner. [/b]
Most onboard sound sucks.
quote
Use STR (suspend to RAM) instead of STD (suspend to disc). The computer will recover from STR mode faster and will use less power in STR mode. The more RAM the computer has, the smaller the swapfile (assuming a Windows OS) will be. Smaller swapfiles mean less hard drive usage.
RAM is volatile and needs constant power or the memory registers won't hold their values. Suspend to RAM only works if you give the computer constant power. Battery drain, anyone? Suspend to disk is a better idea.
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01:21 AM
SplineZ Member
Posts: 952 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Registered: Nov 2002
You could probably mount it near the spare tire and run an external DVD drive to fit where your radio usually goes. It may fit in the dash somewhere too. With the "suspend to RAM" thing, I don't like it - it does only require a little power, but remember, that power is added on to by the inefficiency of a power supply.. although my points may be moot because I don't know the exact power consumption of a computer on STR.
If you're looking to play games or do anything processor/video intensive I would stay away from the Mini-ITX systems. My mom's old PII 300MHz outperforms the current VIA 1GHz chip in a lot of tests. Running the Shuttle SN41G2 would enable you to run basically any socket AMD Athlon processor - from a Thunderbird 700 to a Barton 3000+. Power consumption of the computer while the vehicle on shouldn't be a big deal - 200 watts; that's only the size of a small amplifier.
Would it be feasible to construct your own power supply using some "heavy duty" Zener diodes to get the right voltage on each rail, or is that too much current for something like that? How would you control turning on/off in software; that might be a problem.
Door locks, theoretically, shouldn't be too hard to program. That'd be really neat. Now you just need some voice software on the computer and you can say "lock the doors" and it would lock them.. talk about techie
Also, check out how well the VIA boards don't play DVDs. http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/20030326/mini_itx-07.html Here's a screenshot of one of them playing a DivX movie. As with the DVDs, too high CPU usage means dropped frames and, in some cases, desynchronized audio (which really sucks). In contrast, here's a screenshot of my computer playing a DivX movie (Snatch).
Edit: no more "lack of a better word"
[This message has been edited by Wipe0ut (edited 05-02-2003).]
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04:36 PM
derangedsheep Member
Posts: 3089 From: Myerstown, PA Registered: Mar 2003
i have a question and an idea. the question first.
wipeout, why does your windows look like mac osx? you have sinned... lol j/k
ok, heres my idea. if you had a very light LCD screen and some basic skills in working with plastic. you could probably get an LCD screen and mount it in place of the passenger side sun visor. if you mounted it right, you could set it up so that when you flipped it down and turned it (like if the sun was coming in the passenger window) the screen would face towards the driver... lemme know what you guys/girls think of this. i think if you had basic skills and a couple extra bucks laying around you could pull this off and make it look really good.
Nice subject! Mine has been in the car now for about 9 months and you can catch some of the mounting info and pics at www.dohcfiero.com under the tips and tricks section. I installed a single board computer which has LAN, Sound, LCD Video, USB, disk controllers and all on the board which is just slightly larger than a standard hard drive. That along with a nice 10.5" LCD monted where the dash pocket used to be turned out pretty nice. Granted, you guys will have more power in the processer and RAM section than I do, but mine works pretty darn good with MPG grabs. Not on the site yet, I installed a small keyboard into the visor on the driver side and hard wired some momentary activation buttons to a keyboard controller and mounted them in the console for total control of the software screens. Might want to go grab a look.
Wipeout, I agree with you totally on the Game performance, but for DVD or Divx playback the ITX 1000 works perfectly I just watched X-Men before going to X2 and NO problem, Divx at 604X480 NO problem, even video capture again 640X480 using MPEG2 NO problem, this comes from firsthand everyday use.
Infact, if you look down a little lower on the link you provided, you'll note on the 933, they themselves said they played back T2 smoothly! Could even play back Divx WTIH AC3 encoding!
So if you aren't playing games the ITX would make a great choice!
[This message has been edited by ds21 (edited 05-03-2003).]
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07:25 PM
May 4th, 2003
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
I've been keeping an eye on this thread for a while, but so far (or at least I didn't see it just now scanning through) nobody has mentioned the SoundBlaster Extigy... ( http://soundblaster.com/products/extigy/ ) It's an external audio processor, connected to a PC by USB. It has Dolby Digital, a crapload of processing power, and a bunch of dedicated A/D and D/A converters, and can be had for around $100. I first saw it a few months back, and it sounds like a great solution - you can use a *good* motherboard with no onboard audio, and this external unit.. Is there something wrong / bad about it that I haven't seen yet?
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress. It now starts and runs!!!)
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07:43 PM
85frankenstein Member
Posts: 687 From: Kenosha, WI 53142 Registered: Nov 2001
Cool, looks like it only takes +12v and plugs into a standard headphone jack, and has a remote like the Extigy.. How does it sound, and do you have it connected to an external amp / deck? And only $37 on eBay...
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08:47 PM
May 5th, 2003
Kris Duck Member
Posts: 193 From: Coquitlam, BC, Canada Registered: Dec 2002
Well, lots of great ideas flowing so far. Keep 'em up!
Now, nobody has really stepped up regarding LCD's yet, I'm sure someone must have some good ideas? (Cheap!) I've found the top-end LCD's for any given size, but they're all expensive. Some people have told me that laptop LCD's aren't that good, changing resolution causes the viewable size to change, etc... Any opinions from laptop or car-LCD users?
As far as using voice commands to control doors, of course you won't be able to do anything when the car isn't running, right? You can't really use a voice command to start the computer, so you're going to have to do some things manually anyway. Voice navigation of software is cool though. Changing tracks or setting volume would be neat to voice-control.
Another question that popped into my head. What's the smallest mobo that will run a P4? Also, what about temps? Will a P4 handle the tight spaces and higher temps better than an Athlon? The Temp dissipation is better with a P4, but the Athlon can run hotter.
Lastly, for those that have ripped apart dashes before, is there room enough to hide a motherboard (ITX or ATX) in the dash? I don't want to relocate the PC to the front trunk, as doing so will up the price of the project significantly. External DVD drives are expensive, and I don't know how well a six foot run of IDE cable will work with it.
It's beginning to look like a mini-itx just won't handle what I want it for. If I have a couple extra PCI slots, it'll save a lot of money, I won't need a USB 802.11b card or a USB FM receiver. I'm not a big fan of all-in-one mobos anyway...
Anway, keep the creative motor oil flowing.
Kris '87 GT Little, Yellow, Different.
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03:18 AM
PFF
System Bot
85frankenstein Member
Posts: 687 From: Kenosha, WI 53142 Registered: Nov 2001
I've had the NewQ hooked up through my Home system as well as into the car (Home = 5 x 100 watt, car, well, let's just say there's plenty of power) and it sounds quite nice and is quite controllable. I wouldn't say that it will compare with a Rane Pro EQ, but none the less, still quite nice for the consumer market.
On the topic of LCDs, my system came with an LCD controller on board along with an LCD, so I really can't contribute much more than that. Another nice idea is the use of a touchscreen layover. I've seen a few guys running them and talk about a nice interface! Just a little too pricey for my venture.
Well behind the radio compartment is enough room for my ITX case 7.25 x 7.25 x 3.5 looks like you'll have to find another place for a P4 system, I don't plan on playing games so ITX is fine for me. I've thought about voice control, I wrote a program that would control my Home Automation system, but they were simple commands such as "lights to 70%" Or "movie setting". A while ago I started on a voice controled MP3 system for home use and had it finding the artist/track, "sting, soul cages, track 4" but than I thought, if the music's playing you'd have to mute it while talking to the system, and with the state of voice recognition at that time(about 2 years ago) I didn't things it would work too well, so I don't know,in the car you could just have a little push button to mute the sound when you give commands.
[This message has been edited by ds21 (edited 05-05-2003).]
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11:24 AM
May 7th, 2003
Wipe0ut Member
Posts: 1524 From: Mankato, MN Registered: May 2002
The Shuttle XPC also comes in a P4 version. I'd rather go with the Athlon. Their heat pipe cooling system works great. My CPU never gets over 48C (internal diode.. external thermistor reads 34-38) and that's only because I don't have my CPU fan make decent CFM until the BIOS tells it to kick in (at 48C). You could go AMD or P4. The AMD system is a LOT faster for any given MHz, and faster based on price. The AMD system has dual channel DDR, and good onboard graphics and sound. From what I know the P4 system has crappy (but usable) onboard graphics and kind of crappy sound. I have to go to class now but I may reply with more answers later.
BTW ds21, overclock a 933MHz to 1MHz? Sounds like an underclock to me! Did you mean 1GHz?
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01:12 PM
May 9th, 2003
Kris Duck Member
Posts: 193 From: Coquitlam, BC, Canada Registered: Dec 2002
Well, I like AMD. Both my home computers (mine and wife's) are AMD. One's a Duron 1100 and the other is an XP1700+ (O/C'd to 1800+). My only concern is that my XP runs around 55c with a big HSF, though I've heard of P4's running below 30c with only slightly upgraded cooling.
What's the difference between the mobo sizes? Is that Shuttle a Mini ATX or micro ATX? I want two PCI slots, with onboard video, and a P4 socket. Are the shuttle mobo's available separately or do you have to buy it in the supplied case?
Anyway, like I said before, the LCD is my main concern now. I found someone that can get me an LCD controller card for next to nothing, but I need to find a cheap LCD that will work with it. My supplier tried to talk me out of a laptop LCD, saying the desktop units were much better and easier to use.
Thanks,
Kris
[This message has been edited by Kris Duck (edited 05-09-2003).]
Well, it looks like I might end up going with a desktop LCD in the end anyway. Seems WAY easier than finding the right LCD and the right controller card, and wiring the inverter etc. I'm looking at adding about $150-250 to the price, as 15" desktop LCD's are available through a source for $379 CDN. Anyway, just a heads-up to the other people considering doing this. Of course this is only for the stupid people that want a monitor bigger than 10 inches. =D
So, now comes the fun of picking the exact components. The power supply and motherboard are going to be the ones with the most options, I think.
I wish serial ATA HD's and DVD drives were cheaper. They'd be great for in a car, no messy ribbon cables, and I think you can run longer cables too.
Don't use a desktop lcd. Anybody who's anybody in the carputer world uses this:
It's only one piece in my arsenal of secret carputer projects, but I just can't let you use a desktop in good conscience!
It's small, but it's true widescreen vga, meaning that the picture quality makes any other lcd look like doggie-turds. You can get them with just rca inputs for approx $200, with vga inputs for $450 and touchscreen with vga for $500. The light quality is much better than a desktop lcd and it can fit nicely into a double din slot with a little ingenuity.
Edit: Since I'm letting out this little "secret" I expect at least one person to rate me for it!!!
[This message has been edited by fierogt88 (edited 05-13-2003).]
And that would be where????? I'd love to get one. Does the VGA one have the same res. as the RCA input one? As in if I use a vid. card with an RCA output... Also, is it just one size, or different ones? I bought a 7" widescreen LCD "TV" monitor, the size is perfect for what I need, but the quality BLOWS turds. BTW, that was some nice work on that case mentioned above!
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress. It now starts and runs!!!)
The native res on all models is 800 by 480. The model that has rca inputs will display TV resolutions by translating the TV res "up" to 800 by 480. That means it will be better than all the other cheap lcd monitors made for cars, but not as good as vga input, obviously.
The models that have vga input can "sync" the standard computer resolutions to 800 x 480.
The models that have touchscreen have a slightly reduced brightness, so you would probably want tinted windows so it wouldn't be so hard to see on bright days.
And, cancerkazoo, I would definately like to find a source for the touchscreen models for $400!
Awesome! fierogt88, being widescreen, what exactly happens when you display a "normal" non-widescreen VGA computer screen on it? Does it stretch, cut off the top/bottom, or...? Same on "normal" ratio video input - if it's not a widescreen signal, what happens to it? And as for quality, how would you compare the screen to a decent-quality Laptop screen? I can't begin to compare it to the 7" monitor I have, even a WalMart video-in-a-bag is better than this thing. But I'm on a laptop, (HP Pavilion ZE4200, 1024x768), which I'm used to as a decent resolution / quality. Would this screen be like taking off a corner of my laptop screen and sticking it in the car? I just need a bit of a "push", and I'll order one!
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress. It now starts and runs!!!)
If you guys are really thinking about wireless ethernet, look at 802.11g instead of b. The speed is much better, the distance is way better and the price is only slightly higher...well worth it. Better technology as well. CDW just started stocking a lot of 802.11g stuff.
Steve
------------------ 1988 Formula 3.4L
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10:08 PM
DustoneGT Member
Posts: 1274 From: The U.S. Superstate Registered: Dec 2002
"You're gonna shave your what?" My dad said as I told him that I wanted to get rid of my antenna.
I am not a big time gamer, in fact, I cant think of the last time I played a computer game. MiniITX for me. I am a multimedia guy myself. I have a killer AMD desktop for raw power.
After I finish my exhaust I will get to the comp.
Fierogt88: Rated pos. for the screen idea.
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10:27 PM
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
I have 802.11b, and it's "OK". Figured out the reason I have "b" and not "g". Seems everyone (got mine at BestBuy) put the 802.11b stuff on sale at the same time; nice cheap prices and rebates too. So I go and buy it. Then a few weeks later the new stuff comes out, not much more $$. Guess they lowered the price to blow out the old stuff, and I went for it! Works OK in the house, but outdoors I can barely get 50 feet from the house. How much better range does the "g" have?
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10:43 PM
May 15th, 2003
DustoneGT Member
Posts: 1274 From: The U.S. Superstate Registered: Dec 2002
If anybody's using wireless ethernet in their cars, be really careful. At work we found that if you dont set up some sort of security people with laptops/spare time will get in and wreak havock. This could be especially dangerous when we all park our cars in all sorts of places. It would suck to accidentally join a network we didn't intend on being a part of just by parking in a parking lot. Just something to keep in mind.
p.s. What do you think of my new sig?
------------------ "If we make it look mean enough, they won't want to mess with it."
It is very simple to enable something called an SSID that identifies the wireless piece (the laptop, or in this case, the car) to the wireless access point connected to the wired LAN.
Out of the box these wireless pieces have this feature disabled. The owner must enable the SSID. I recommend you do the same thing on the car computer if you want to avoid wandering onto someone else's network. Although it wouldn't hurt anything...finding someone else's access point isn't going to affect your computer...and you are obviously not going to start surfing their wired LAN since your in-car computer is not setup to do surfing.
Normally you secure the wired component...not the wireless piece.
The range is supposedly in the 150' indoor range. Not sure about outdoor, but 802.11b was rated at 80 - 100' indoor.
Also the higher freq range of 802.11g allows for higher speed (54Mbps) and 'g' uses better privacy (WEP encryption) protection.
What's anyone's progress? I might bring a prototype of mine to the Dells, but not my Fiero not ready. I came up with a totaly new way I'm installing mine.
